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Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Mark_in_Bangkok
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Location: Bangkok

Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 3rd, 2017, 4:14 pm

.
I'm new here – first post.

Last year, May 10, 2016, a topic appeared on this forum:
“Living in Thailand Now Will Answer Questions”, by poster: livingthedream.

The last post from Mr. Livingthedream was just two days later, May 12, 2016.
He was never seen on this forum again.
Makes you wonder, eh?

Since some readers of this forum will be interested in living in Thailand, I will offer some thoughts.
I have been living here for more than 10 years (retired businessman from the USA).
I have learned to speak, read, and write the language, and have learned about local life in that way.
There's a lot I still don't know, but I have picked up a few things in those 10 years.



livingthedream wrote:
May 10th, 2016, 11:06 am
I'm now living in Thailand for over 6 months,

Six months and he's an expert.
At six months, so was I.
And, yes, I was posting to forums telling the world about the great life here.

Hint: I don't do that any more.

Suggestion: If anyone writes about living in Thailand (not just touristing here), the first fact to establish is how long has he been living here.
Less than 3 years, I won't believe much that he has to say.
More than 5 years, I will listen with both ears open.

Reason: Thai thinking and behavior is complex and very, very, different than anything we experience in The West.
At first here, all we see is “fun” and “cheap” and the women.
But behind the scenes there is a huge amount of complexity that is not so “dreamy”.


livingthedream wrote:
May 10th, 2016, 11:06 am
I'm now living in Bangkok Thailand and I love it here, it's better than I ever could have imagined and everyday I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. ... The woman here are beyond belief incredible and I thank God now everyday for finally showing me what a woman is and that he didn't make a mistake in creating women.

Any man who can get sex every day will be smiling.
But it seems that easy sex is the main reason that poster “loves” living in Bangkok.

Bangkok has plenty of other aspects to life here, and most do not lead to smiles.

Hint: I'm wary of anyone whose main topic and reason for living here is the women.

Suggestion:
It's true; women are easily available.
That can be a good reason for tourist visits, but not a foundation for full-time living.

Reason: Many men in their first year or two of living here, don't realize that man-woman interactions in Thailand are far different than in Western countries.
Women here don't care about “you”.
They care only about what you can offer to them.

Here, among foreign men and local women, there really isn't social dating.
For the women, any interaction is a way of making money or gaining other values, such as mobile phones, new clothes and shoes, or bragging rights from trips to foreign countries.



livingthedream wrote:
May 10th, 2016, 11:06 am
I date middle class Thai women in the age range of 27 to roughly 35 years old, I'm currently 48 years old myself but look about 40 or so. I could easily go out with hundreds of woman here it has to be seen and experienced to be believed.

Thai women don't “date” as we think of dating.
For many, “dating” men is just a part-time job.
It is how they earn “extra” for things they want.

Hint: Now a positive hint – for an older man, it can be wonderful, absolutely wonderful, to spend time with a woman who is happy to be in your company, happy to be close to you, happy to have sex with you.
She's doing a great job as an actress, but, from the man's perspective, so what!

Suggestion: Very important: Never neglect to pay her.
Maybe not cash, but something of value.

Reason: In the West, to have sex with a woman without her consent, is rape.
If she is angry enough, she will go to the police.

In Thailand, to have sex with a woman without paying her is major loss of face for her.
We think “loss of face” is just a big embarrassment.
But in Thailand, “loss of face” is a major threat to one's ego, especially for a woman.
She will think about revenge.

She won't bother going to the police.
If she is angry enough, she'll go to her brothers, her male cousins, and possibly even her Thai boy friend and his friends, to have them to extract revenge.
Some of those local men may be police or, possibly, mafia.
If that happens, I hope you are far away before they get organized.
But if you are actually living here, you'll be right were she left you.



I want to emphasize that living in Thailand is far from a “dream”.
Thailand is an irrational culture with strong undertones of chaos, corruption, and feudal social organization.

So, why am I here?
Thailand was not my goal.
I didn't select Thailand because of anything wonderful here.

My goal was to get far away from the very serious threats to white men in the USA.
Thailand agreed to take me, and Bangkok offered a life of comfort and safety.
It still does.
For over 10+ years, Thailand has proven to be a good choice.


I welcome comments and critique on any of this.
I especially welcome thoughtful conversation in private messages.

However ... I have no interest in discussing the cost of prostitutes.
And, also, no interest in discussing costs of living here.
If Thailand is on your short list of destinations, and cost of living is critical for you, then get on a plane and come see for yourself.


Best regards from Bangkok.
.

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Master
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Master » December 3rd, 2017, 6:26 pm

Women here don't care about “you”.
They care only about what you can offer to them.
Well good to know that the world globally is equal. What happens here, happens over there, everywhere.

Cheap whore mongers here try to sell thai as young loving caring women paradise. Only fooling themselves to think they actually give 2 shits about them. Especially those old disgusting pedofiles who can only get it up by screwing a paid young whore in some poor dirt country. And that is what some of these filths call themselves Men.
Good Review. I'd figured it'll be like that. I think there is a potential for a woman to actually care but the vast majority probably just want a one way ticket out of hell and if they have to sell a fantasy to some guy they dont give a f**k about its about better than the terrible lives they cant dream of getting out of.
Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.
Become An Agent of Choas.

Image

xtravel
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by xtravel » December 3rd, 2017, 6:48 pm

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 4:14 pm
.
I'm new here – first post.

[good stuff removed]

Best regards from Bangkok.
.
Welcome Mark. That was an awesome first post.

With Stick no longer doing his weekly column (stickmanbangkok.com), I've missed reading about Bangkok from an experienced ex-pat.

Your points resonate with what Stick wrote for years, and match my own experience.

I adore Bangkok, and am considering other places in south east Asian to retire. What type of visa do you use?

Please do continue to share your experiences.

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Zambales
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Zambales » December 3rd, 2017, 11:42 pm

Interesting stuff, Mark.

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publicduende
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by publicduende » December 4th, 2017, 12:18 am

TBH, it's not that different in the Philippines. Most women in the Philippines have this dreamy romantic naivete that comes across as cute and alluring to most of us Western males. Scratch the surface, though, and you will find exactly the same motives as Thai women: money for the essential of life (feeding themselves, their children and their families), money for superfluous stuff like mobile phones, gadgets and trips, the hope of a more financially secure life and perhaps that of a coveted white mixed baby.

Just like in Thailand, the solid middle and upper class is very reluctant to mingle with us. I have never been to Thailand, nor am I that interested to be there besides occasional tourism, but one of the things that pushed me away is exactly the materialistic, opportunistic and extremely cynical take on life (and love) that Thai people exhibit.

I found Malaysians and Indonesians far friendlier.

For the record, I have been living in the Philippines for 2.5 years, more than 3 years non-continuously. It took me 2 years to find a young woman who could convince me she did not wanted me for what I can offer to her, but because she enjoys being with me.

OutWest
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by OutWest » December 4th, 2017, 12:46 am

publicduende wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 12:18 am
TBH, it's not that different in the Philippines. Most women in the Philippines have this dreamy romantic naivete that comes across as cute and alluring to most of us Western males. Scratch the surface, though, and you will find exactly the same motives as Thai women: money for the essential of life (feeding themselves, their children and their families), money for superfluous stuff like mobile phones, gadgets and trips, the hope of a more financially secure life and perhaps that of a coveted white mixed baby.

Just like in Thailand, the solid middle and upper class is very reluctant to mingle with us. I have never been to Thailand, nor am I that interested to be there besides occasional tourism, but one of the things that pushed me away is exactly the materialistic, opportunistic and extremely cynical take on life (and love) that Thai people exhibit.

I found Malaysians and Indonesians far friendlier.

For the record, I have been living in the Philippines for 2.5 years, more than 3 years non-continuously. It took me 2 years to find a young woman who could convince me she did not wanted me for what I can offer to her, but because she enjoys being with me.
Well, is she still with you?

OutWest
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by OutWest » December 4th, 2017, 12:53 am

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 4:14 pm
.
I'm new here – first post.

Last year, May 10, 2016, a topic appeared on this forum:
“Living in Thailand Now Will Answer Questions”, by poster: livingthedream.

The last post from Mr. Livingthedream was just two days later, May 12, 2016.
He was never seen on this forum again.
Makes you wonder, eh?

Since some readers of this forum will be interested in living in Thailand, I will offer some thoughts.
I have been living here for more than 10 years (retired businessman from the USA).
I have learned to speak, read, and write the language, and have learned about local life in that way.
There's a lot I still don't know, but I have picked up a few things in those 10 years.



livingthedream wrote:
May 10th, 2016, 11:06 am
I'm now living in Thailand for over 6 months,

Six months and he's an expert.
At six months, so was I.
And, yes, I was posting to forums telling the world about the great life here.

Hint: I don't do that any more.

Suggestion: If anyone writes about living in Thailand (not just touristing here), the first fact to establish is how long has he been living here.
Less than 3 years, I won't believe much that he has to say.
More than 5 years, I will listen with both ears open.

Reason: Thai thinking and behavior is complex and very, very, different than anything we experience in The West.
At first here, all we see is “fun” and “cheap” and the women.
But behind the scenes there is a huge amount of complexity that is not so “dreamy”.


livingthedream wrote:
May 10th, 2016, 11:06 am
I'm now living in Bangkok Thailand and I love it here, it's better than I ever could have imagined and everyday I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. ... The woman here are beyond belief incredible and I thank God now everyday for finally showing me what a woman is and that he didn't make a mistake in creating women.

Any man who can get sex every day will be smiling.
But it seems that easy sex is the main reason that poster “loves” living in Bangkok.

Bangkok has plenty of other aspects to life here, and most do not lead to smiles.

Hint: I'm wary of anyone whose main topic and reason for living here is the women.

Suggestion:
It's true; women are easily available.
That can be a good reason for tourist visits, but not a foundation for full-time living.

Reason: Many men in their first year or two of living here, don't realize that man-woman interactions in Thailand are far different than in Western countries.
Women here don't care about “you”.
They care only about what you can offer to them.

Here, among foreign men and local women, there really isn't social dating.
For the women, any interaction is a way of making money or gaining other values, such as mobile phones, new clothes and shoes, or bragging rights from trips to foreign countries.



livingthedream wrote:
May 10th, 2016, 11:06 am
I date middle class Thai women in the age range of 27 to roughly 35 years old, I'm currently 48 years old myself but look about 40 or so. I could easily go out with hundreds of woman here it has to be seen and experienced to be believed.

Thai women don't “date” as we think of dating.
For many, “dating” men is just a part-time job.
It is how they earn “extra” for things they want.

Hint: Now a positive hint – for an older man, it can be wonderful, absolutely wonderful, to spend time with a woman who is happy to be in your company, happy to be close to you, happy to have sex with you.
She's doing a great job as an actress, but, from the man's perspective, so what!

Suggestion: Very important: Never neglect to pay her.
Maybe not cash, but something of value.

Reason: In the West, to have sex with a woman without her consent, is rape.
If she is angry enough, she will go to the police.

In Thailand, to have sex with a woman without paying her is major loss of face for her.
We think “loss of face” is just a big embarrassment.
But in Thailand, “loss of face” is a major threat to one's ego, especially for a woman.
She will think about revenge.

She won't bother going to the police.
If she is angry enough, she'll go to her brothers, her male cousins, and possibly even her Thai boy friend and his friends, to have them to extract revenge.
Some of those local men may be police or, possibly, mafia.
If that happens, I hope you are far away before they get organized.
But if you are actually living here, you'll be right were she left you.



I want to emphasize that living in Thailand is far from a “dream”.
Thailand is an irrational culture with strong undertones of chaos, corruption, and feudal social organization.

So, why am I here?
Thailand was not my goal.
I didn't select Thailand because of anything wonderful here.

My goal was to get far away from the very serious threats to white men in the USA.
Thailand agreed to take me, and Bangkok offered a life of comfort and safety.
It still does.
For over 10+ years, Thailand has proven to be a good choice.


I welcome comments and critique on any of this.
I especially welcome thoughtful conversation in private messages.

However ... I have no interest in discussing the cost of prostitutes.
And, also, no interest in discussing costs of living here.
If Thailand is on your short list of destinations, and cost of living is critical for you, then get on a plane and come see for yourself.


Best regards from Bangkok.
.
You have captured it well...the BS runs deep, but you cut right through it to get to reality.

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publicduende
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by publicduende » December 4th, 2017, 1:10 am

OutWest wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 12:46 am
Well, is she still with you?
For now, yes :-)

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Adama
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Adama » December 4th, 2017, 1:17 am

Thank you for posting. That all sounds very interesting. I wonder what other cruel tricks are employed there.

That makes sense. That place is filled with all kinds of idolatry from what I can see.

Jonny Law is in that area and his words do not praise them at all.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 4th, 2017, 6:15 am

Adama wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 1:17 am
I wonder what other cruel tricks are employed there.

... "Cruel" from our point of view, yes, but, from their perspective, merely what they must do to survive.
Most live at the margin, from day to day.
.
.
Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 4th, 2017, 6:28 am

Master wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 6:26 pm
Cheap whore mongers here try to sell thai as young loving caring women paradise.

I've observed that about whore mongers, too.
And, yet, I see another side to their adventures.
They seem to have the courage to go to new places, often strange and remote places, and report back for those of us who are not rough-and-ready explorers.
At one time, not so long ago, Thailand was such a place.

Perhaps it is courage, or, maybe, the mongers are "driven" by their desires.
Either way, in years past, I learned a lot by reading travel forums written by mongers, information that I found nowhere else.
Most of them write/speak frankly and boldly about what they observe.
Mongers don't concern themselves with political correctness -- I like that.

So I'll continue to welcome reports from mongers, even if I don't indulge in their hobby.
.
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Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 4th, 2017, 6:45 am

xtravel wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 6:48 pm
Your points ... match my own experience.

Thank you, xtravel, that's one of the reasons I posted: to get a reality-check from other men around here.

xtravel wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 6:48 pm
I adore Bangkok

"Adore," eh?
How long ago did you last visit Bangkok?


xtravel wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 6:48 pm
What type of visa do you use?

Retirement visa.

For those interested: retirement visa available age 50 and above.
No upper age limit (and as I get older, I've thought about that.)
Visa good for a full year.
No need to ever leave Thailand, just renew once per year, here in the country.
Cost per year, US$60.
Requires US$2,000 per month in available funds for living costs, (but you are not required to spend it all, just have it available).

There are other visa types available for living here long term, but I don't know details.
.
.
Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

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Yohan
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Yohan » December 4th, 2017, 7:04 am

Thanks for the OP.

I am from Europe but living in Japan since 40 years, I have my own rooms in Thailand, Pattaya for vacation and now also using them for long-term as already retired.

I receive retirement allowance from Europe up to the end of my life monthly, so I am financially secure, and I can stay long-term, as there is only the airfare to consider as extra expenses. Housing maintenance has to be paid anyway, if I am living in Thailand or not. I have my own motorcycle there. Some health insurances to cover me in case of an emergency. Food expenses are the same regardless if we are in Thailand or in Japan.

Every year I spend a few months in Thailand - a good place for holidays if you don't like cold winter-time. I am not with a Thai girl, but with my Japanese family and some friends from Europe, who are in a similar position, we all have some savings and retirement allowances.

Just my opinion:

Thailand is OK if you bring your own money with you. The question is how much do you need monthly and do you really have so much money from abroad as regular income. It is difficult to earn enough money in Thailand for a good living as a Western foreigner.

Many foreign men were dreaming to settle down in Thailand but made horrible miscalculations, went bankrupt and had to leave.

Do not mistaken and ignore and push away the serious question about your financial situation and be aware that you cannot live so cheaply as some local Thais or some illegal immigrants from Cambodia or Myanmar.

Your legal situation in Thailand as a Western foreign man is not so easy either. Short visit yes, no problem, but for longstay there are requirements and they are not always so easy to fulfill. Working permits are not so easy to get either. Private health insurance for foreigners is remarkably expensive.

An important point are indeed medical fees. You are not always healthy and to pay for private health care out of your wallet can be very costly in case of a serious illness or accident.

Further, money is difficult to control and foreign men often act in a stupid way and waste money for nonsense, staying in expensive serviced upper class residences paying huge rent, totally into girls and bars (so-called yellow fever), cars, buy imported food, give money to Thai 'girlfriends' because they are sooooo poor (my Thai bargirl is different!), using drugs and drinking too much alcohol and finally you will meet such men sitting in front of a convenience store with a plastic cup and a piece of paper 'please help me to go home' - the so-called Farang beggar (farang = Western foreigner).

About my experiences with Thai people - they are about business only, as I do not have any personal relationship with any Thai person.
I can say, small businesses near my place are working fairly good and are co-operative with foreigners.

I never had any problem with repairing in my home, various supplies, laundry, airport-bus, ferry and taxi-services, my motorcycle repair shop, with my bank, or with my law & accounting office - all done properly (well, in the Thai style but this is their way of life), in general no complaints. Stay calm and friendly, be patient.. what else can I say.

Some foreigners are complaining about Thai traffic police so much, yes, true, they take money, but only if you are breaking the law and want to get away with it. As a foreigner, never overstay your visa, have a valid driving licence when using a car, never out using a motorcycle without helmet or being drunk...don't ask for troubles, please respect some rules.

About politics, stay away, don't care - no need to talk about and if you see some demonstration, just move on.
About security, Thailand in general is quite safe for foreigners, however to stay in your hotelroom during late night is not a bad idea especially if you have to stay overnight in small cities near the borders or on small islands.

Many Thais are sensible about Buddhist temples and pictures of the Royal family, take off your shoes if required and don't spit or piss on temple grounds or as some idiots did, walking naked around in front of a Buddha statue - you might find yourself in big troubles.

About sex, as a foreigner be careful that the Thai girl (or boy) with you is 18+ - otherwise just use common sense. Don't walk around during late night with creditcards, a golden watch and a wallet full with bills. Don't bring unknown girls and boys you just met at the beach straight into your private rooms. Something might be missing when waking up alone next morning. :LOL:

Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 4th, 2017, 7:15 am

publicduende wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 12:18 am
... it's not that different in the Philippines ... this dreamy romantic naivete that comes across as cute and alluring ... Scratch the surface, though, and you will find exactly the same motives ...money for the essential of life (feeding themselves, their children and their families), ...for mobile phones, gadgets and trips, the hope of a more financially secure life and perhaps that of a coveted white mixed baby....

Very neatly said.
Publicduende's conclusions fit neatly in Thailand.


publicduende wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 12:18 am
... the solid middle and upper class is very reluctant to mingle with us.

Yes, exactly that way in Thailand.
I don't know about the upper class, but certainly true for the middle class here.

One important reason that the middle class is reluctant to mingle with us is, here in Thailand, the middle class is predominantly Chinese ethnicity, not Thai.
They are arrogant, xenophobic, and consider themselves far superior to all non-Chinese.
They behave that way not only toward foreigners, but even with their Thai neighbors.

(For those who know a bit of local history, it is true that "original" Thai people migrated here from Southern China at the time of the Mongol invasions in the 13th century. But it is the children and grandchildren of more recent Chinese immigrants -- in the past 100 years -- who now dominate the middle class here. There is deep resentment between the two groups. That doesn't directly affect foreign men living here, but it does affect the sort of women who make themselves available to us.)
.
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Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

OutWest
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by OutWest » December 4th, 2017, 7:21 am

publicduende wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 1:10 am
OutWest wrote:
December 4th, 2017, 12:46 am
Well, is she still with you?
For now, yes :-)
What is good is rare...and if it at least 50% good, its worth working on...I wish you the best!

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