Before you rush to live in Thailand...

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xiongmao
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by xiongmao »

I just got an email about a software developer job in Bangkok. I'm tempted but to be honest I think I'm done with IT. Teaching is fun AND I am losing weight from all the standing up/lugging worldly goods up and down stairs.

So teacher salaries aren't that high but with a free apartment I save most of my salary. Plus I only do 18 hours teaching a week. My preparation time is coming down as I build up a portfolio of pre-planned lessons. I'm being a bit sneaky and not using the coursebook. I'll have masses of stuff prepared for next year and beyond.

Incidentally the new digital nomad Thai visa should be announced in January. My guess is it will be expensive and you'll have to hire a Thai employee or two. But we will see.
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Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

xtravel wrote:
December 3rd, 2017, 9:48 am
I adore Bangkok, and am considering other places... to retire.

X -

Since the topic here is a warning about living in Thailand, would you please expand on exactly how you came to "adore" Bangkok.

Your comments could be useful to anyone considering living here for retirement, or any other purpose.
And I'm interested to know, too.
Did I miss something you've discovered here?

From my side, and since I started this topic, I do not adore Bangkok, not at all.
Yet I'm in Bangkok right now, and I've lived here for 10 years.
Why?
  • I don't know where else is so much better that it is worth the aggravation of moving.
    .
  • I've already travelled to, and lived in, "exotic" places.
    More of that does not appeal to me at all.
    .
  • My enjoyments in life now do not come from where I live, but how I live.
    Once I close the door to my apartment, and open up a good book, or turn on the computer, I could be anywhere.
    With that strategy, I see no special attraction to Bangkok.
Over to you, X, for rebuttal.
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Yohan
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Yohan »

xtravel wrote:
December 12th, 2017, 5:24 am
You might be thinking of the Thai Elite visa program.
I do not understand why anybody should join the Thai Elite visa program. For what?
Anybody can explain?

It is very expensive, too expensive. Even the 'cheapest' one, called Elite Easy Access membership -
https://thailandelite.org/elite-members ... embership/

Are you willing to give away baht 500.000,- for non-refundable membership-fee for 5 years?
This is more than USD 15.000,-. Such programs are really only for VERY rich people who don't care about money and want to show up as V.I.P.

USD 3000,- per year for non-refundable 'membership' to be allowed to live in Thailand?

https://thailandelite.org/elite-members ... ite-cards/
USD 62.000,- for 20 years with privileges to play golf, to use spas and some free transfers?
I don't even know if I am alive in 20 years.

There are better and much cheaper visa solutions in most cases available and I see no reason why somebody who really has money will stay in Thailand so long - minimum 5 years - and has no any other place of residence to move over for a while, even not to his own native country.

-----

I see similar expensive programs in Malaysia for a 'second home' - only a rich Arab, Indian or Chinese large family can pay for that, surely not a simple Western foreigner, who considers living overseas. Malaysia housing, allowed to buy your own land and home, starts with 1 million MYR + additional financial requirements. This is about USD 250.000,- only for considering to buy your own home.
http://www.mm2h.com/mm2h-requirements-t ... onditions/
Really this is suitable only for the rich...

-----

My family is not poor, but we are also not extraordinary rich and will not give money away for such projects, better visit Thailand, Malaysia and some other countries as a tourist, stay for a while - that's OK and nothing wrong with that, but we do not ask for permanent residence status.
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Yohan
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Yohan »

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 14th, 2017, 7:15 am

Since the topic here is a warning about living in Thailand, would you please expand on exactly how you came to "adore" Bangkok.

Your comments could be useful to anyone considering living here for retirement, or any other purpose.
And I'm interested to know, too.
Did I miss something you've discovered here?

From my side, and since I started this topic, I do not adore Bangkok, not at all.
I also would like to hear more about how and why 'to adore Bangkok'.

If you are retired, like in my case you are surely better off living in Pattaya, Sri Ratcha, Sattahip, Hua Hin or similar places near Bangkok, but not within Bangkok itself.

Of course if you need Bangkok for a living, have a regular job there, this is another matter - but working permits are not so easy to get and income is rather modest - except if you have a contract from overseas and are working in a large int'l company or int'l school etc. in a good position.

For me, living in Japan, Thailand outside of Bangkok is fine to escape the cold winter season. I am retired, but Bangkok is a dusty, noisy and busy place for longstay, at least for me. Another concern is also about flood in many parts of the city.

If I really need Bangkok for some reason, like visiting the embassy/consulate or want to see some special sightseeing spot or something like that, I book a hotel room for one or two nights - but living there over months and years? No way.
Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

Yohan wrote:
December 14th, 2017, 11:03 pm
I do not understand why anybody should join the Thai Elite visa program. For what?

I second Yohan's comments about Thai Elite visa program.

And I will add one more caveat to his list above
I try to never give money to Thais in advance, for anything.
Once they have your money, they start changing the "deal" for more advantage to themselves.
In any transaction, not just this visa program.
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Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

Yohan wrote:
December 14th, 2017, 11:21 pm
If you are retired, like in my case you are surely better off living in Pattaya, Sri Ratcha, Sattahip, Hua Hin or similar places near Bangkok, but not within Bangkok itself.

Yohan has much experience in Thailand + much common sense = valuable conclusions.
I agree with him about almost everything.

However, about living in Bangkok, I see a different side.
I've lived in Bangkok for 10+ years voluntarily.
No business or job keeps me here.
My perspective is a retired, American, businessman.
Not rich, but certainly not poor.

I've looked at some other places around Thailand: Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, etc.
Those are pleasant places to visit, but for day-to-day living, I prefer Bangkok.

Why?
  • Vast array of services -- as you would expect in a major, international, city.
  • Convenience of having everything I'd ever need right here.
  • Far more business-like attitude toward getting things done than anywhere else I've seen in Thailand.
  • Medical and dental services that are very important for an older man.
I don't want to debate about it, but I've been surprised at how much I enjoy retirement living in Bangkok.
Important to add, that I live in the pleasant suburbs, not in the crowded, noisy, hectic, inner-city, which is all that most travelers ever see.

Now I am hoping xtravel will not ignore us.
I want to read how he came to the conclusion of "adore".
Last edited by Mark_in_Bangkok on December 15th, 2017, 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cornfed
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Cornfed »

^ You use way too many commas.
Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

Cornfed wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 2:18 am
by Cornfed » December 15th, 2017, 5:18 pm]
^ You use way too many commas.
Corn: Would you please edit/correct ^^ and send to me in a PM. I can learn and improve. Thank you.
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xtravel
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by xtravel »

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 12:45 am
Yohan wrote:
December 14th, 2017, 11:21 pm
If you are retired, like in my case you are surely better off living in Pattaya, Sri Ratcha, Sattahip, Hua Hin or similar places near Bangkok, but not within Bangkok itself.

Yohan has much experience in Thailand + much common sense = valuable conclusions.
I agree with him about almost everything.

However, about living in Bangkok, I see a different side.
I've lived in Bangkok for 10+ years voluntarily.
No business or job keeps me here.
My perspective is a retired, American, businessman.
Not rich, but certainly not poor.

I've looked at some other places around Thailand: Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, etc.
Those are pleasant places to visit, but for day-to-day living, I prefer Bangkok.

Why?
  • Vast array of services -- as you would expect in a major, international, city.
  • Convenience of having everything I'd ever need right here.
  • Far more business-like attitude toward getting things done than anywhere else I've seen in Thailand.
  • Medical and dental services that are very important for an older man.
I don't want to debate about it, but I've been surprised at how much I enjoy retirement living in Bangkok.
Important to add, that I live in the pleasant suburbs, not in the crowded, noisy, hectic, inner-city, which is all that most travelers ever see.

Now I am hoping xtravel will not ignore us.
I want to read how he came to the conclusion of "adore".
Sorry HA is not a high traffic site, so my visits are sporadic.

Same reasons as you give. A vast array of services at a very low cost. My retirement nest egg will go far and long there. My social security alone should provide a comfortable lifestyle.

I like Sukhumvit and all the sois.

The mass transit system is well done.

There is always something fun to do each night. Compare that to the South Bay of the SF Bay Area. Unless one wants to go to the city, which is dreadful, or east San Jose (little Vietnam, which is fun, but dangerous) it's boring to live here. Everything shut down at 9pm.

I've been to Phuket and was satisfied with the services (Bangkok hospital Phuket is quite good) plus I like beach life. For that reason, Bali and Penang are getting a close look, though there are risks to a non-Muslim, especially in Imdonesia which likes to conduct religious cleansing every few years, and I really hate hijabs. Ever seen Malaysia porn? Girls take it all off except the hijab.

I visited the Phillipines (Subic, Manilla, Tagaytay) for a week and rejected it as a place to retire. Traffic is just insane. Outside of Manila there are no taxis except stupid trikes and a man over 6 foot, 200 pounds doesn't fit. Other than the live music and willing girls, what a stupid country. I don't understand why HA is filled with Phillipines proponents; they must be dwarves. Other than LA Cafe, why bother?

Still want to visit Chiang Mai, Vietnam, Cambodia, Goa.
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by xtravel »

xiongmao wrote:
December 12th, 2017, 7:11 pm
I just got an email about a software developer job in Bangkok. I'm tempted but to be honest I think I'm done with IT. Teaching is fun AND I am losing weight from all the standing up/lugging worldly goods up and down stairs.

I'm in IT.

Passion burns out. Greed is sustainable.

With your IT job you will be able to afford a nicer apartment, multiple girl friends (maybe even a hi so Chinese-Thai girl), and get to eat at more expensive restaurants more often.

What keeps me engaged in my job each day, is that being paid twice a month, there is an average of 7.5 days until my next paycheck. Each of which deposits enough in my 401k to last 3 months in a developing country.

Take the IT job and use that to get a lay of land (so to speak). Then ask yourself if you really want to live like a back packer. As a Chinese, Bangkok has more "services" available to you.
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

xtravel wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 7:39 am
My retirement nest egg will go far ...
... always something fun to do each night.
Thanks xtravel, for posting.

To sum it up: "adore" = cheap + night life.

But Pattaya is much cheaper and offers more night life.
If you are going to live in Thailand (the premise of this topic) wouldn't you "adore" Pattaya?
Or did I miss something?
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xtravel
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by xtravel »

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 8:11 am
xtravel wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 7:39 am
My retirement nest egg will go far ...
... always something fun to do each night.
Thanks xtravel, for posting.

To sum it up: "adore" = cheap + night life.

But Pattaya is much cheaper and offers more night life.
If you are going to live in Thailand (the premise of this topic) wouldn't you "adore" Pattaya?
Or did I miss something?
Yeah you chose to miss the part where I agreed with your points without actually listing them again. I don't know why the Internet is such a deliberately impolite place.

I've never been to pattaya.

Thanks. I am done with you and your veiled insults. Have a nice life.
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

xtravel wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 7:39 am
I visited the Phillipines ... and rejected it as a place to retire ... I don't understand why [so many forums] are filled with Phillipines proponents...

Good point.

Like xtravel I visited The Philippines and rejected it for my retirement living.
But he's right, we see so many proponents [on various forums, not just this one].
Why?

For retired men on a tight budget,
cheap rent + cheap food + cheap sex = paradise.
Easy to understand that.

For them The Philippines is not only their best choice, it is their only choice.
Many men are very grateful to be there.
And it's human nature to promote your choice, yes?

In fact, that is the premise of this topic.
Many/most expats here in Thailand try to promote Thailand.
I think it's better to examine the facts carefully and follow where they lead -- even if they don't lead to a paradise.
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Mark_in_Bangkok
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok »

xtravel wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 8:21 am
I've never been to pattaya.

Then I suggest you have a look at Pattaya.

It is significantly cheaper than Bangkok and there is plenty to do at night.

Many expats there, so plenty of shops with clothing to fit Western men, restaurants with Western food, good hospitals with English-speaking staff.

Pattaya doesn't have "trikes", but it does have Thai-style Jeepneys which are easy for a Western man to fit into.

You might find Pattaya is a good fit for your preferences.
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Yohan
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Re: Before you rush to live in Thailand...

Post by Yohan »

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 15th, 2017, 12:45 am
.....
However, about living in Bangkok, I see a different side.
I've lived in Bangkok for 10+ years voluntarily.
No business or job keeps me here.
My perspective is a retired, American, businessman.
Not rich, but certainly not poor.

I've looked at some other places around Thailand: Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, etc.
Those are pleasant places to visit, but for day-to-day living, I prefer Bangkok.
.....
Important to add, that I live in the pleasant suburbs, not in the crowded, noisy, hectic, inner-city, which is all that most travelers ever see.
Well, different people have different needs, different opinions.

About Bangkok, before we decided for Pattaya, we were also looking around in Bangkok, not in city center, mostly around Srinakarin/Pattanakan in BangNa, Seacon Square area etc.

About myself and family (European/Japanese), we are living permanently in Tokyo and we were choosing Pattaya as a second home, because it is comfortable for us all - anyway we are not living there all year round.

It's easy to transfer from Bangkok airport straight to Pattaya, and almost all what you need you can find in Pattaya without going to Bangkok, and I like the sea and prefer to be away from traffic and citylife within 15 minutes when moving around with my motorcycle, best medical care is available same as in Bangkok etc.

Accomodation we bought is also OK...if I like to swim in warm sea water, I take the ferry to Koh Larn, if I like to walk around an island with some sightseeing spots, I use my motorcycle to Sri Ratcha and ferry to Koh Si Chang etc. etc.

Our flight time is for sure from Japan much shorter and airfare cheaper than in your case to/from USA, it takes us only about 5 hours flight and in Tokyo we are also living near airport. So we come several times a year.
Breakfast in our home in Tokyo, lunch in the airplane, dinner in Pattaya in our second home...so easy to get away from cold winter in Japan now.

I think, it is difficult to compare Pattaya with other cities, some hate it, some like it. To make it short, Pattaya is NOT a 'normal Thai city'.
A 'normal Thai city' might be Bangkok, it might be Chumphon, or Chantaburi or Uttaradit or such a city - however Pattaya is something like a 'holiday town' a 'place for everybody from everywhere' 'a tourist spot for any kind of people' with millions of foreign visitors, a huge number of condominium buildings used mainly by foreigners, a surprisingly high number of hotels and otherwise accomodation for short-stay of any category from the cheapest to the most expensive price level.

A big part of the original local Pattaya population and around and workers from rural areas are making a living solely out of serving tourists, a considerable number of Thai people living in Bangkok have a second house in Pattaya which is a place without flood as there are no big rivers there and no political demonstration... as I said, Pattaya is not functioning as a 'typical Thai city'.

Similar to your situation, we are now retired, children are adults and if we visit Pattaya, it's voluntarily, and we are aware in case of any serious political troubles we will have to move on to somewhere else, away from Thailand and we are aware there is nothing we can take with us, all will be lost.

About my rooms in Pattaya, we use them since about 15 years for my family and considering hotel-invoices instead of using our own rooms during vacation and since retirement from now on even for long-stay I think to buy a condominium unit in Thailand is worth a consideration.

However I bought them cheaply at that time, about 3 to 4 times cheaper than they cost now. I think, for all together, both condo-units I paid including some furniture about 2 million baht.

I would however never do such a crazy thing and bring all my money into Thailand, buy land for my 'Thai bargirl, who is different' or invest otherwise a big amount of money into this country. I know about horror stories, where Western men were cheated and lost 'everything' and everything means up to 60 or even 80 million baht. This is 2.5 million USD. That's plainly stupid and crazy - so-called yellow fever.

Another concern is about visa. Thailand is nice if you just come and stay sometimes... simple stamp for 30 days stay and out... away for a while... come back for again 30 days and out... usually enough for people who have limited vacation due to their employment.

Now I am retired with a good retirement allowance from Europe, I am holding a non-immigrant O visa, 12 months, unlimited re-entry, no bank deposit of baht 800.000,- required. For me, this is very OK.
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