Why are Hong Kong people so rude, cold, rushed, grouchy, unhappy, soulless? What's their purpose for living? Lol

[chanta76]

Winston,

Pretty much any 1st world Asian country will have this. Visit Seoul, or Tokyo or even Singapore. People are too in to themselves. Too busy surviving . They work way too hard because that's the society and they judge you by your accomplishment. Almost all develop Asian countries are like that.

I think you will have hard time fitting in with any of those countries. This includes Taiwan and even Hong Kong.

I think some folks that come here are like dinosaurs and looking for that better country to live in but I see that everything in one way or form is becoming more Americanize. Sadly I see allot of people not fitting in.

[MrLee4u]

"Like attracts like. Snobby uppity people like snobby uppity environments."
"But my question is, how come the tourists here seem snobby and uppity too?"

You just answered your own question.

I think deep down you're just upset that, like in Taiwan, nobody in Hong Kong is giving you the time of day. I'm guessing that particularly the young women have no interest in talking to you. I'm afraid you would be receiving the same lack of attention in any large, wealthy, metropolitan city. The women in Seoul, Tokyo, London etc. will not talk to somebody who looks and acts like you.

I am Taiwanese and agree with this. The author looks negroid with big fish lips, cabbage size head, potbelly, old ugly clothing and dark, dirty skin. He looks like some manual laborer or street beggar. Definitely not an intellectual or professional with good salary.

[publicduende]

I wonder if you would find the Philippines to be such a welcoming place if you were the average Filipino making average Filipino wages?

Funnily enough, any Filipino man making at least 50,000 PHP ($1,000) gross a month is considered middle class and has far more chances to land a quality girl (young, pretty, no kids, with a job) than any adult foreigner making 10 times as much ever will.

In the eyes of Filipino women, we foreigners are only a better option to the scum, the lazy, jobless, unfaithful and violent Filipino men hailing from the vast working class.

[chanta76]

publicduende,

I think it's only because Philippine men have the network and deeper understand of the culture. The biggest problems with foreign men that go to Asia is this automatic expectation thinking that Asian women will just love them just for being foreign. It's like they have this obnoxious stuck up attitude along with this arrogance toward the local people.

I think if the foreign guy is half way decent in looks and attitude and takes the time to actually genuine learn the language and culture . it's possible he can also gain access to the better quality girls.

[publicduende]

publicduende,

I think it's only because Philippine men have the network and deeper understand of the culture. The biggest problems with foreign men that go to Asia is this automatic expectation thinking that Asian women will just love them just for being foreign. It's like they have this obnoxious stuck up attitude along with this arrogance toward the local people.

I think if the foreign guy is half way decent in looks and attitude and takes the time to actually genuine learn the language and culture . it's possible he can also gain access to the better quality girls.

Despite what countless websites, "dating coaches" and YouTube videos say, Filipinas are not naturally attracted to foreign men. If they appear as such, it's because they already scanned the local dating pool and established that they have no chance to get a quality Filipino man - they're not too attractive, they come from a poor or problematic family, they have kids from previous relationships, etc. They then make up their minds about looking for a foreigner, and that's when they start advertising themselves on dating sites.

Filipino men are the natural choice for any Filipina: as you say, they speak the same language, they understand their culture to perfection, their families will not judge them as gold diggers because they're dating outside their pond, etc. Even just the language is a huge barrier for the largely uneducated mass. Understanding and speaking English for them is a hassle. They might play it down, joking about "nose bleed" and pretending to understand, but more often than not they have trouble. This simply doesn't happen with a Filpino man.

Of course a foreigner who takes the time to learn Tagalog or Bisaya and comes across as genuinely interested in getting as close as possible to the local culture, including visiting the family, taking care of the girl and possibly her parents and close relatives, like a Filipino man would, that foreigner would have higher chances.. But then there's another problem, age. Again, it's a HUGE myth that young Filipinas are perfectly OK with being seen with men 20+ years older. It's not true. Any girl who knows she has a chance with a local Pinoy boy will be very uncomfortable even being seen in public (e.g. a mall) holding hand with an adult man, foreign or local alike, let alone date him in private (unless she is getting something out of it, a gift or money).

Foreign men have less chances than local younger men, to find a quality woman. And if a quality woman they do find, rest assured she won't be seen as such quality by the local. I know this is a cynical and partial view, but this is how it is. Take it or leave it.

By the way, to dispel any doubt, I actually am with a quality girl: well educated from a upper class family, very pretty, very fair skinned, being constantly chased by upper class Filipino men, etc. And I am a 43 years old divorcee. So where's the catch? That, as she recently confessed me, she has a huge "father figure" fetish. She is with me for a reason that is slightly "deviant" from the reasons why a girl of that quality should be (or not be) with a man like me.

I confess you guys I felt shocked and hurt when she spilled the beans on this. The reality of the matter, that I am a 43-yo foreigner and I just can't get the top of the dating pool - ever, in any country of the world - struck me like a wrecking ball in the groin. And I had to make an instant decision: accept her reasons and love her anyway, or act all righteous and outraged and proclaim that I can't be with her, because she doesn't subscribe to my ideal of a girl who is hopelessly attracted to me because I am "the best of the best".

I had to swallow my pride, and forge ahead with what - after all - looks like a very smooth and loving relationship.

[MrLee4u]

Blah blah, you silly old man. You should choose better reading material:

Human attractiveness explained

Symmetry and familiarity is what we like! We are wired to prefer familiar things to unfamiliar ones. For example, the mere exposure effect (see below) demonstrates that seeing something even once makes it more desirable than something that has never been seen before. The cognitive system uses familiarity as a way to judge that something is relatively safe. A lot of people go on and on about attractiveness. They even use silly numerical scales to rate attractiveness. However, that is all nonsense, you're either a) unattractive b) attractive and c) extremely attractive. Here's a break down:

Over the years, many studies have examined what people find attractive in faces. One important factor is symmetry. If you draw a line down the middle of someone’s face, the more similar the right and left sides of the face, the more attractive it is seen to be. Evolutionary psychologists have reported that we like symmetry in faces because it is a sign of health.

1. Asymmetry face (unattractive). People's faces are deemed 'unattractive' exactly because their features deviate from the symmetrical set as a default for their sex.

3. Averaged face (good looking/cute). 'Average' means having even and symmetrical features, which are generally rated more attractive than asymmetrical ones. The word "average" in a way that differs from the way that we normally use it when talking about looks and attractiveness. There is a big difference between 'average looking', as in plain, and the "average", as in a representative composite.

3. Extremely attractive face - Slightly exaggerated average. Attractiveness is not, as you might at first think, linked with distinctiveness; it’s actually the opposite. Researchers created artificial faces on a computer by combining photos of several people’s faces to generate a composite, “average” image. In preference trials, these highly average faces were consistently rated most attractive. What’s more, the more faces were used to build a composite face, the more attractive the composite face was judged. A big reason for this was morphing process eliminates the asymmetries in the individual faces.

If a female composite (averaged) face made of 32 different faces is overlain with the face of an extremely attractive female model, the two images often line up closely, indicating that the model's facial configuration is very similar to the composite's.

Familiarity

As well as averageness (even and symmetrical features), there is another important influence on how physically attractive a person’s face is perceived to be: Familiarity. An interesting paper in the November, 2013 issue of Psychological Science demonstrates that the familiarity of a face may play an even bigger role in the attractiveness of the faces than symmetry. Male and female volunteers looked at a series of smiling female faces and were asked to rate the attractiveness of each one. Some of the faces they saw just once, while others they saw six times. By the end of the study the repeatedly viewed faces were picking up higher attractiveness ratings for no other reason than the added exposure.

This tendency, to form a more positive impression the more familiar something becomes, is known to psychologists as the “mere exposure effect”. It applies to many different situations. Research has shown that people will evaluate photographs, sounds, shapes, names and even made-up words more positively if they have encountered them before.

It affects judging on the Eurovision Song Contest. One recent study showed that when it comes to voting for a Song for Europe, newer countries that must perform in both the semi-final and final gain a points advantage over more established countries appearing only in the final, simply because the judges are watching these performances for a second time.

This mere exposure effect is how much of advertising works. We are surrounded by ads, and we often do our best to keep from listening to them. So, the messages that the ads are presenting are not likely to have a huge effect on the way we think about the product being advertised. However, just hearing the name of the brand is enough to find the product more attractive the next time we encounter it. So, you do not need to pay much attention to an ad for it to have an effect on your behavior.

But a word of warning: it’s not all plain sailing when it comes to mere exposure. If someone takes a dislike to a stimulus, repeated exposure to that stimulus will only increase the dislike. So, if that first encounter goes horribly wrong, the best thing to do might be to give it time before trying again. Even mere exposure can’t save a bad first impression.

Source: http://culturewhiz.org/forum/topic/huma ... -explained

[publicduende]

Blah blah, you silly old man. You should choose better reading material

http://culturewhiz.org/forum/topic/huma ... -explained

Oh well, old Mr Shawn sure has a lot to teach!

[flowerthief00]

He's right. The foreign man is always at a disadvantage to the local man. That is the red pill of overseas dating. Learn it, swallow it, live with it.

Now, I think that in the Philippines the picture is somewhat more cheery for the foreign man than anywhere else I've been, but the fundamental principle holds, I believe, throughout the world.

There is plenty of data on how women prefer their own race/culture/nationality/language. For instance, the OKCupid survey which found that white women prefer to date white men, black women prefer to date black men, Asian women prefer to date Asian men, and Latino women prefer to date Latino men. Men of all races, however, were more open to interracial dating than corresponding women *

Which translates into the principle of home court advantage. Just as foreign men who come to your home country are at a disadvantage compared to you, you are at a disadvantage compared to them when you go to theirs, because women simply prefer their own. It sucks but it's reality.


*On a later year that that survey was conducted it was found that one and only one group (white men to be specific) has come to even prefer women outside its race (Asian women to be specific) over its own, an unprecedented trend. Why they choose Asian women, don't ask me why. The feeling is, of course, not mutual. Worrisome when you think about how the men of two of the major world races (White and Asian) now prefer women from one of the major world races (Asian)....what effect will that have on the dating market going forward I wonder?

[MrLee4u]

Most women/people prefer what they are familiar with. Lots of nerdy white guys are into Asian women because they are quite familiar with them from porn or whatever.

[momopi]

momopi,
I realize in life that you have to work hard and work smart but also have luck to make it in the world. I know people who worked really hard and were decently intelligent but bad things happen where they lost money or were not successful as they should be.
Flip side of the coin I also met people by luck they became successful for being at the right place and right time. Or they had wealthy family that help them build their careers or businesses.
So when I think of losers. Yes some people suck at life but for some others they just have poor luck. Life's not fair but you just keep living.
Hong Kong sometimes is pretty extreme when it comes to riches vs poor. Kind of like reminds me of India.

A long time ago in China there was an old scholar who lamented that he was never given the opportunity to succeed. He studied hard but when he was young, the Emperor preferred older scholars with wise eyes. Then he got older, the new (younger) Emperor preferred younger scholars with fresh eyes. In those days upward mobility was very limited and passing the imperial exam to be appointed as a government official was one of few ways to go up. Today the imperial exam has been replaced by Civil Service exam for hiring entry level government workers. In China over 1 million applicants take the annual test to compete for 27,000 job openings, in Korea 160,000 applicants compete for 4,000 job openings.

But unlike the Imperial era, today there are far more opportunities outside of civil service. We also enjoy far greater mobility today compared to the time when most of our ancestors were born, lived, and died in the same village. You cannot count on being born to the right place, but you can vote with your feet and chase opportunities. I understand that not everyone is able to do this because of circumstances such as mental or physical handicap, crushing poverty, having to care for another, etc. But there is a difference between those who are unable versus those who are unwilling and use luck as an excuse.

I think many Americans don't understand the extreme wealth gap and crushing poverty in places like HK and India. Heck, in California we have unreasonably high rents, but if you explained Korea's Jeonse (key money) deposit to lease an apartment to an American affordable housing advocate, he/she will probably be shocked. In the recent Korean Drama "Strongest Deliveryman", Chae Soo-bin's character is trying to work hard to save money so she can emigrate out of "hell Korea", a phrase used to describe the economic inequality excessive work hours, and inability to escape poverty. See "spoon class theory": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_class_theory

Chae Soo-bin's character in the Drama is someone who was born with dirt spoon (poverty and debt), but is able and willing to work hard and be happier abroad. Her character had mishaps where she lost significant amount of money that she had saved, but she didn't give up and kept going. In my family, my grandfather lost our apple farm in Nantou (Taiwan), my father lost our family home twice (Changhua & Taipei), but we didn't quit no matter how hard it was to get out of bed in the morning and face unpleasant realities. When I graduated from high school 1989 in the US, we used our savings as downpayment on a family home instead of college, just so that we can have our own roof over our heads. I went to work full time to help pay the mortgage and took 1-2 classes at college per semester at night. I didn't get my BA until 2001 while my friends from better off families went to 4 year universities right out of HS and enjoyed the dorm experience. I wasn't lucky enough to be them but I don't consider myself a loser either.



Chae Soon Bin from "Strongest Deliveryman" (2017)
First 5 episodes are free to watch on Dramafever: https://www.dramafever.com/drama/5059/S ... liveryman/

[publicduende]

I think many Americans don't understand the extreme wealth gap and crushing poverty in places like HK and India. Heck, in California we have unreasonably high rents, but if you explained Korea's Jeonse (key money) deposit to lease an apartment to an American affordable housing advocate, he/she will probably be shocked. In the recent Korean Drama "Strongest Deliveryman", Chae Soo-bin's character is trying to work hard to save money so she can emigrate out of "hell Korea", a phrase used to describe the economic inequality excessive work hours, and inability to escape poverty. See "spoon class theory": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_class_theory

Chae Soo-bin's character in the Drama is someone who was born with dirt spoon (poverty and debt), but is able and willing to work hard and be happier abroad. Her character had mishaps where she lost significant amount of money that she had saved, but she didn't give up and kept going. In my family, my grandfather lost our apple farm in Nantou (Taiwan), my father lost our family home twice (Changhua & Taipei), but we didn't quit no matter how hard it was to get out of bed in the morning and face unpleasant realities. When I graduated from high school 1989 in the US, we used our savings as downpayment on a family home instead of college, just so that we can have our own roof over our heads. I went to work full time to help pay the mortgage and took 1-2 classes at college per semester at night. I didn't get my BA until 2001 while my friends from better off families went to 4 year universities right out of HS and enjoyed the dorm experience. I wasn't lucky enough to be them but I don't consider myself a loser either.

Very insightful post Momopi. I had a chat with one of my Korean friends in Davao and he basically agreed on whatever you wrote above. His life was quite unsual for a Korean: his father was a boxing manager who went from rags to riches. When he was rags, he literally gave his kid (my friend) away to a Filipino family because he was working so hard, he didn't even have time to take care of him. He got schooled in Davao and by the time he was in his 20s, his father had established himself as boxing and car racing manager.

He spent a few years in Korea in the limelight, organising boxing matches and doing semi-pro racing, making and spending like crazy. Then when he hit his 40s, all of a sudden "the kind wanted fresh eyes" and nobody literally wanted to hire him or talk to him. He then went back to the Philippines to work all sorts of jobs, but he never managed to replicate the fortunes he had (and lost) in Seoul. Now in his early 50s, he's still youthful and dynamica and he is living a (very) modest life with his young Filipina partner and his adorable daughter.

What he told me is that the "boom Korea", as it has been in the past few years, is one of absolute, crystalline and impenetrable crony capitalism. If you are on of the elite, you run or co-own a conglomerate, you have literally billion of dollars of opportunities, and the chance to make even more money if you subcontract to the tens of thousands of smaller companies that feed on the downstream. No opportunities for any new entrants - see innovative companies or start-up - to even get a crumble of the pie, if not by begging to be one of the bottom feeders.

And apart from all the golf playing and whiskey drinking with the big boys, the methods my friend mentioned are shady indeed, worse than any of those Yakuza movies of yesteryear: bribing is only the tip, then blackmailing, kidnapping and intimidation, even mutilation.

No surprise, he told me, most young Koreans who are far removed from the mechanics of the elite can either hope to become modest employees of one of the bottom feeders, or leave the country! It did strike me quite a long time ago that, for how modern and classy South Korea is, there is no unicorn or even famous start-up to speak of. Japan and even pea-sized Singapore have far more in the way of innovation from young and innovative companies.

Sad times indeed, if Korea will encrust itself into the kind of ivory tower Japan found themselves stuck into in the 80s. It will be the beginning of the end for the "Korean miracle".

[chanta76]

Public and momopi,

This is why Asian folks in the develop Asian countries like South Korea , Japan etc are cold and callous. The life style is competitive and status and image matters. Look at all these plastic surgery that is happening in South Korea. Looks matters.

To a lesser degree I think this also happens to other develop Asian countries. For whatever reason there are expats that still like to visit or want to live in South Korea.

[chanta76]

momopi,

Getting back to Winston thread. I think Winston is complaining about connection . Social connection or romantic connection. It's one thing to just work and make money. Heck that's doable. But getting a romantic relationships and becoming popular socially is bit different.

What if your ugly? short ? Heck the wrong race in that country. You can calculate and make money..I know Asian guys in America making money but they are by themselves. I also know Asian guys in Asia making money but can't get romantic connection.

I think that's what Winston is complaining about. And I totally understand. Places like South Korea and maybe other develop Asian countries. It;s very superficial. Status and looks and connection etc all matters.

Believe or not there is I think a movement even in Asia of mgtow. I know South Korea is starting to have that. Korean women are becoming waaayy too demanding but also wants equality. Maybe the same for Japan. That explains partly why there is less marriages and birth rate.

[publicduende]

Public and momopi,

This is why Asian folks in the develop Asian countries like South Korea , Japan etc are cold and callous. The life style is competitive and status and image matters. Look at all these plastic surgery that is happening in South Korea. Looks matters.

To a lesser degree I think this also happens to other develop Asian countries. For whatever reason there are expats that still like to visit or want to live in South Korea.

I personally don't think the South Korean is a model to follow. My Korean friends told me that Korean are on average far more disciplined than Japanese and Korean culture still doesn't have much of those "degenerate" aspects (like Lolita complex in manga and pop music) that Japan has. It's a purer, stricter Confucianist model than Japan (which has Shinto as their underlying life philosophy).

Still, that's just in theory. In practice, it's a corrupt hellhole as much if not more than Japan's. What does a country that has their ex president and the CEO of its biggest industrial group (Samsung) arrested and convicted with corruption, tell you? My Korean friend says Korean is more resilient than decadent and decaying Japan but, if all signs have to be taken into account (including the obsession for exterior beauty obtained at all cost), I guess Korea is going the way of Japan and it will replicate the same socio-cultural-economic stagnation of Japan, just half a century later.

[chanta76]

publicduende,

But getting BACK to Winston thread. South Korea or Japan or whatever..doesn't offer that happier abroad we are looking for. South Korea has problems ..so does Japan heck so does USA. We could debate to ends of earth of why. But the point is where can Winston or someone like him go to be accepted and be ok socially.

I been to South Korea many times I notice the difference in that country every time I visit. It was great 20 years ago..but nowadays..seflishness and over competition and even over westernization took it's roots.

I guess my point is where is there to go? Your in the Philippines and you wrote threads that it's not this paradise. I thought about retiring to Korea when I'm little older but now. I don't know. And reading about the Philippines and Thailand..well...I think it's just been over played by expats.