Winston's core differences with Taiwanese people

[Winston]

My incompatibilities with Taiwanese people: Why I'm different from my own kind

Hi my name is Winston Wu. I am a very unique blend in that I am a Taiwanese American with a European/Latin mentality and soul. However, those who stereotype automatically assume that as a Taiwanese American, I will have Taiwanese traits. So to them and others who are interested, I present this summary of key differences between my traits and those of typical Taiwanese and Chinese people.

Although Taiwanese/Chinese people are usually very kind, possess a rigid sense of morality and conscience, and have rock solid family values, I have many incompatibilities with them in the areas of mind, soul, values, beliefs and lifestyle. Here are some of the key ones.

1. Taiwanese/Chinese people are natural followers and conformists in both mind and lifestyle. They see obeying society and authority as the only possible path in life without alternatives. Thus, they are only comfortable by "following the pack". Rather than thinking for themselves or thinking outside the box, they think as they are "supposed" to think. They do not "dare to be different".

Therefore, if you are too different from them, they don't know what to do with you and often just ignore you. You see, Taiwanese/Chinese people lack any interest in trying to comprehend those who are different from them. Probably, this is because they are not curious intellectuals, but are workaholics and followers driven by duty who live to conform. Thus, they do not relish being unique or different, nor are they interested in understanding those who are. Instead, they have a tunnel vision mentality in which life is all about "following" rather than thinking for yourself or creating something. In addition, they are very strict and serious about their ways.

On the other hand, as a freethinker and freespirit, I like to think for myself, even if it goes against conventional lines. And I relish being unique and different. I am not afraid to go against the majority or crowd if I feel I am right. To me, truth and free expression are the most important ideals, not conformity. Rather than being limited to a one-dimensional practical mindset, I have a multi-faceted perspective that incorporates both practicality and imagination/creativity. Being naturally inquisitive, I seek to understand different people and what they are about. And as a writer, I am constantly thinking, musing and asking questions.

2. Taiwanese/Chinese are workaholics with few other interests in life. Almost every Taiwanese person has a strong desire to be a workaholic. In fact, this desire is so deeply ingrained into the Taiwanese culture and soul that if you don't have it, they think there is something wrong with you or that you are some kind of freak.

Like the American/Anglo-Saxons mindset, they "live to work" and usually work 6 or 7 days a week, having few or no other interests. Even when they are rich enough to retire and not work anymore, many of them still want to continue working because they get bored to death and feel empty if they don't. They wouldn't know what else to do, sadly. Like corporate America, they have an Anglo-Protestant work ethic and value that states that a person has no worth without a job or career. They enjoy working hard just for the sake of working hard, which is a grand virtue to them. You can see this not only in their workaholic lifestyle, but also in the fact that they are not able to converse on a variety of subjects, or engage in deep conversations. Instead, their conversations are usually limited to topics about surface-level necessities and practicalities.

As for me, I have more of a European or Latin mentality and soul toward life. For instance, I do not measure my life in terms of career progress, but by the variety of rich experiences I've had. I am an eclectic and Renaissance type of man who lives for intellectual and artistic pursuits. And I am deeply philosophical, inquisitive, and existentialist in nature. Also, I am wild, passionate and romantic, yet cultured, artistic and intellectual at the same time (a rare combination of traits for a Taiwanese or American, but not for a European or Latin). Thus, I am more like an Italian, Frenchman or Spaniard than a Taiwanese or American.

So, to the typical Taiwanese person who gives me a puzzled look when they find out that I don't have a desire to be a workaholic, I say this, "Sorry buddy, I respect you and all, but we are different creatures driven by different things."

3. Taiwanese/Chinese people, like most Americans, tend not to talk to strangers unless it's business related or on an "as needed" basis. They only meet new people through mutual friends and socialize only within their own clique. This is especially the case with young women. As a result, the average Taiwanese/Chinese person's dating choices and social circle is severely limited to the few in their clique, closed off from the rest of the world's population. Outside one's clique, other people are like an "off limits zone" to them, similar to how it is in the US. In my book, that sucks (but fortunately it doesn't have to be that way, and in most countries of the world, it's not). And as in American social culture, there exists an "ice barrier" between strangers, but without the paranoia that pervades the typical modern American populace.

Well I don't like countries like that. I like meeting quality people and beautiful women. So I am happier in countries where general people are open and sociable (not just kids and old people like in Taiwan), where it is normal to talk to people in public settings and where they are comfortable doing so. I don't like being restricted to cliques or requiring introductions, which severely hamper the opportunities and are low probabilities. Countries that limit socialization to within cliques are a "catch 22" - you have to have a lot of friends to meet a lot of people, but you can't get a lot of friends unless you meet them through a lot of friends first. Hence a "closed loop".

Thus, only those that get in early have opportunities to meet others or get acquainted with nice available women. Or those that have the "right" connections, which only a few will have of course. But even if you do have good connections, the number of people you can meet will still be miniscule compared to those you can meet in countries with open free-flowing inclusive social cultures.

4. Taiwanese/Chinese people and society tend to be extremely "square", prudish, inhibited, conservative, tight, strict, proper, serious, submissive, and hung up about sex. (Thus, they would be suitable candidates for conversion to Protestant Christian religious sects, which idealize and emphasize such traits.)

As a result, they tend not to be very fun to hang around, as they never really "let loose", but are constantly obsessed with work and duty 24/7. After all, people who are too "square" are not much fun. Also, Taiwanese parents tend to be control freaks and worry-worts who try to create co-dependency in their children.

In Taiwan, sex is a taboo subject. They are so ashamed and embarassed by it that they suppress any notion of it publicly. To even utter the word "sex", "horny" or "pick up girls" in Taiwan would be like cussing in a church. Even compared to the solemn serious Japanese, they are more hung up about sex in comparison, as they don't even have a porn industry, whereas Japan has a huge porn industry. In fact, even Taiwanese actors in movies and TV shows are not wild or uninhibited in them, but are serious and solemn!

It's no wonder then, that on internet forums for those seeking sex, such the one on WorldSexGuide.com, many have said that Taiwan is not the place for whoremongers or those looking to get laid or seeking wild action. They say the sex scene there is virtually dead. Taiwanese girls are so prudish in fact, that they don't even like to shake hands. After all, how can I talk or even think about sex around someone who is so stiff that she can't even shake hands?!

In my experience, Taiwanese women who are wild, uninhibited and horny are like UFO's and Bigfoot. Sure, I HEAR stories ABOUT them, but I never SEE or EXPERIENCE them! And everyone who claims to know some that I've asked to show them to me has FAILED to do so or come up with some excuse. Whatever. Thus, I conclude that if they exist they must be extremely rare, and certainly not easily available to the average guy. Most Taiwanese people I've known tend to marry their first or second partner, so not many have had many partners. The society is way too square for "sexual exploration".

In contrast though, in the neighboring Asian countries of Philippines or Thailand, I can easily find and experience wild uninhibited women ANY time I want, every day and every minute if I wanted to. No problem at all in babe paradise. And I can easily demonstrate this to others who don't believe it, without any excuses.

As a freespirit/freethinker, I feel suffocated by all this. I love action, adventure, fantasy, imagination, fun, desires, sex and fast women, none of which are encouraged in a pragmatic Taiwanese society nor flows naturally in it. Instead, everything feels repressed and subdued. In Taiwan, I get the impression that one is supposed to be humble, non-expressive, weak and submissive, doing only one's duty as a workaholic and conformist. (Well sorry bud, that's just not me.) Therefore, being a freethinker, intellectual, melodramatic, wild or passionate, feels out of sync and out of tune with the Taiwanese environment.

In short, I would have to say that like America, Taiwan has a bland culture that is good for making money and being a workaholic, but not for living life to the fullest, having different experiences, enjoying one's existence or having fun.


Conclusion:

Thank you for reading. I believe and hope that this presentation sufficiently explains to those who expect me to have Taiwanese traits, why they are mistaken. As explained above, these incompatibilities and key differences between me and my fellow Taiwanese people make me feel like an alien among them, of a different species. They don't understand me and I don't understand them. The only kindred spirit I feel with them is in language and race, for there exists a comfort zone and level of trust between Taiwanese people that non-Taiwanese cannot feel, which is hard to put in words. But in terms of my mind and soul, no way. We couldn't be more different.

Now, it is true that most Taiwanese people do seem to share the traits described above, at least in my experience and that of those who I've talked to. But I guess every general pattern and rule has exceptions, so I happen to be one in this case.

So to the typical Taiwanese person who approaches me assuming me to be like them, I say this:

"Buddy, I respect you and all, but we are just different creatures driven by different things. Now, if you wish to try to understand me, I will help you to do so. But odds are, you won't be interested or you will feign interest out of politeness only. If that's the case, then so be it. To each his own."

[momopi]

@_@ HK has the 2nd largest pr0n industry in E. Asia after Japan.

For non-porn movies, check out Wong Kar-Wai's stuff.

[ladislav]

Just in passing: I was chatting with a Taiwanese girl who is studying in Los Angeles. We had a long chat, and I asked her what is it that she was looking for at this point in her life: Here is a simulated transcript

"So, what are you in search of now?"

"I have no boyfriend. I am still single. "

"What kind of boyfriend do you need?"

"Right now, I am just looking for some foreigners to practice English with."

"You are looking for foreigners? You mean,you want to meet other international students?"

"No, I mean, foreigners, like, Americans."

:Ha? You are calling Americans 'foreigners' in their own country? Aren't you the one who is a "foreigner?"

"Oh, yeah, hahaha, you are right."

Don't know if this can relate to Winston's article but I have noticed this same pattern in my dealings with the Chinese/Japanese/Korean girls in the US. An American boyfriend is to practice English with and Americans are 'foreigners' in the USA. Heard it so many times, it is just easy to predict that it will emerge in yet another conversation again and again.

[Winston]

Ladislav, it sounds like she is giving the usual Taiwanese goody two shoes innocent spiel. They always say that. I guess in their culture, people should meet for some innocent reason such as language exchange, and then go from there, see what develops. I guess it ties in with my point number 4.

Maybe you should show her my essay and see what she thinks. lol

Actually, I'm going to print it out and whenever the conversation comes up, I'll just hand it to them to show my points without having to reiterate everything.

By "foreigner" she probably means foreigner to her, since all non-Taiwanese would be foreign to her. Oh well, at least she speaks good English.

[gits]

Taiwanese/Chinese people and society tend to be extremely "square", prudish, inhibited, conservative, tight, strict, proper, serious, submissive, and hung up about sex.

They are so ashamed and embarassed by sex that they suppress any notion of it publicly. Even compared to the solemn serious Japanese, they are more hung up about sex in comparison, as they don't even have a porn industry, whereas Japan has a huge porn industry. In fact, even Taiwanese actors in movies and TV shows are not wild or uninhibited in them, but are serious and solemn!

In my experience, Taiwanese women who are wild, uninhibited, fast and horny are like UFO's and Bigfoot. Sure, I HEAR stories ABOUT them, but I never SEE or EXPERIENCE them! And everyone who claims to know some that I've asked to show them to me has FAILED to do so or come up with some excuse. Whatever. Thus, I conclude that if they exist they must be extremely rare, and certainly not easily available to the average guy. In contrast though, in the neighboring Asian countries of Philippines or Thailand, I can easily find and experience wild uninhibited women ANY time I want, every day and every minute if I wanted to. No problem at all in babe paradise. And I can easily demonstrate this to others who don't believe it, without any excuses.

Wu,

I agree with 90% of what you have written here. And maybe things are different for me because I'm a white guy who can speak Chinese proficiently. But even before I open my mouth I find myself getting flirted with or google-eyed all the time. Back in California I wouldn't get a 2nd look as I am a 40 year old balding man with a beer gut. However in TW, I get 20 year old girls talking to me all the time. They are a little too young to be horny, however my girlfriend is 24, and is so hot and loves sex. Also, if you are into older women (30 - 40) This place is your oyster, because there are more of them, and they are at their sexual peak.

These girls do exist, but you have to be willing to go where they go. I have a friend who juggles about 4 or 5 different girls who love to hang out with him and be his f**k buddy. If I wasn't in a committed relationship, I could be doing the same thing.

Anyways, I just wanted to put in my two cents, and if you want to know where to go to meet the party girls, just contact me. Also read my free e-book that tells you all the after hour places to go in Taipei at http://www.notsarsjustsex.com. Scroll down to the bottom.

Gits

[Winston]

Wu,

I agree with 90% of what you have written here. And maybe things are different for me because I'm a white guy who can speak Chinese proficiently. But even before I open my mouth I find myself getting flirted with or google-eyed all the time. Back in California I wouldn't get a 2nd look as I am a 40 year old balding man with a beer gut. However in TW, I get 20 year old girls talking to me all the time. They are a little too young to be horny, however my girlfriend is 24, and is so hot and loves sex. Also, if you are into older women (30 - 40) This place is your oyster, because there are more of them, and they are at their sexual peak.

These girls do exist, but you have to be willing to go where they go. I have a friend who juggles about 4 or 5 different girls who love to hang out with him and be his f**k buddy. If I wasn't in a committed relationship, I could be doing the same thing.

Anyways, I just wanted to put in my two cents, and if you want to know where to go to meet the party girls, just contact me. Also read my free e-book that tells you all the after hour places to go in Taipei at http://www.notsarsjustsex.com. Scroll down to the bottom.

Gits

W: Hi Gits, well again, I'll have to see it to believe it. If what you say is true though, these girls are like a needle in a haystack. Are you sure when they stare at you, the stare is sexual and not like when you look at animals in a zoo? I've seen Taiwanese female students look at white guys, shake their hand, ask for autographs, etc. but I've never seen them give anyone a sexual or flirty look. They seem way too inhibited to ever do that. Very ultra square and ultra conservative.

Next time I go to Taiwan, I'll take you up on your offer. After all, I'd like to see a UFO or Bigfoot for once

By the way, can you show us or me a picture of your girlfriend? I'd like to see what you consider hot.

And if you have time, show her my essay in this thread and ask her what she thinks.

A friend of mine today told me that when he was in the Taipei airport, there were hundreds of people but he couldn't find even one attractive girl. I'd estimate maybe 1 or 2 percent of Taiwanese girls are really "hot". You tend to see them in Taiwanese magazines, billboards, TV shows, but in real life, very few are attractive, or even cute.

Oh and I've met some 30-40 year old Taiwanese women, even through language exchange ads. They were so prudish and square that they were reluctant even to shake my hand. It's as if sex were a different universe for them, totally out of the question.

I've gone to a few pubs and clubs there long ago. The girls were talkative, yeah, but not really wild, flirty, uninhibited or sensual.

Of course, you've lived there for ten years and have more experience there than I do. But you gotta admit that at least 99 percent of the population there fit what I say, right?

[Repatriate]

Heh, i'd take it with a grain of salt. This guy is trying to sell a book about his adventures in "wild" Taiwan. Which for anyone that has been to Taiwan before is kind of an amusing statement.

There are some really cute Taiwanese girls but they tend to go for the hipster/J-pop trendy looking guys. I'm sure there are foreigner party girls but I shudder to imagine what they look like.

Some quite plain short ugly looking country girls are quite attractive to a lot of foreigners. I see it here in Thailand all the time. Some of the women looked like they did a tour back in 'Nam..it's not like the guys they are with are any better but that's the standard couple that I see.

[momopi]

Taiwan is caught somewhere between its own conservative standards and increasing exposure to western mass media. Unlike the US, Taiwanese girls aren't bombarded all the time with as much Paris Hilton and Desperate Housewives stuff, so they're not under as much pressure to dress slutty or get implants. Your typical Taiwanese girl will wear a shirt and pants/shorts and very few will be showing cleavage on the streets. I was at the beach in Su-Ao last year and not many girls were in bikini's.

I also recall, while visiting Boracay last year, most of the local women on the beach were not in bikini. Most wore conservative swim suits, and some had a shirt over it. The ones in bikini's were usually tourists. That was my only exposure to Philippine beach and I donno how accurate it reflects the nation as a whole.

There are fewer westerners in Taiwan as a whole, so if you're a western male looking to date Asian girls who'd consider (or even prefer) dating white men, the numbers work in your favor -- if you can handle Taiwanese women and their families. Westerners dating Taiwanese girls is sometimes a combustible topic, because traditional culture weights heavily on meritocracy and the local men feels uncomfortable with foreigners getting preferential treatment by local women based on race and not personal accomplishments.

Asian girls from different East Asian countries rate Western men differently. Taiwanese and Japanese girls usually don't look down on American men, but in Singapore there's a pecking order where European men are preferred over American. Recently, there's an increase in interest for Indian men as well. Some Taiwanese men who were never under pressure or faced strong competition before resent the trend. With the recent election of Ma Yin-Jou and opening to mainland China, Taiwanese men will have easier access to mainland Chinese women. In time, men from mainland China may also alter the dating scene in TW, but that's probably not for many years.

Speaking of Taiwanese men and Mainland women, I was at a dinner in Tianjing and was told that most of the guys at the table were "bao er nai" behind their wife's back. That is, they're married with family back in Taiwan, but have a mistress in China. For those who don't know, Taiwan is a small island with barely 23 million, but about 1 million are estimated to be living in China right now. Taiwanese men sometimes fall under the negative sexless stereotype, but in reality many, including married men, are players. They're just more discrete about it.

Here in California, I see guys who make $100k/year struggling to maintain their "middle class" lifestyle with a wife or girlfriend. In Asia, ethnic Chinese men who make half that amount can maintain mistresses and GF's across the border. Taiwanese men keep their "2nd wives" in coastal Chinese cities, HK men have so many mistresses in Shenzhen they have "concubine villages", and Singapore men keep mistresses in Malaysia.

So, don't think the Chinese/Taiwanese are a bunch of prudes... the men are far from innocent, and red light districts are abound for those who look for it in China, HK, and SG -- prostitution is even legal in HK and SG.

[Repatriate]

Asian girls from different East Asian countries rate Western men differently. Taiwanese and Japanese girls usually don't look down on American men, but in Singapore there's a pecking order where European men are preferred over American.

Interesting. I never knew about that. I think Asian-American men are the exception and pretty welcome throughout. I never had any Singaporean girls say anything in that regard but then again I noticed any nation that has a significant Chinese population tend to welcome Asian-Americans. The same is true for Korea and Japan. If you're Korean-American (gyopo) or a Japanese-American (nissei) you have pretty much a full run of the hen house in your respective "origin" countries.

It's harder for pan-asian relationships though unless you speak the language.

Recently, there's an increase in interest for Indian men as well. Many Taiwanese men who were never under pressure or faced strong competition before resent the trend but are too lazy and do nothing to improve their appearance and sexual market value.

Depends on who you associate with. Like I said before the trendy J-pop/hipster guys don't have problems raking in the girls. I know quite a few who do the nightlife there and it's quite the party.

There are an awful lot of bookworm types in Taiwan though..same goes for Singapore so it balances out.

Taiwan does have a huge glut of unmarried 30+ something women though. I think these are the women that tend to look outside traditional Taiwanese society because you know..the clock is ticking.

[momopi]

Interesting. I never knew about that. I think Asian-American men are the exception and pretty welcome throughout. I never had any Singaporean girls say anything in that regard but then again I noticed any nation that has a significant Chinese population tend to welcome Asian-Americans. The same is true for Korea and Japan. If you're Korean-American (gyopo) or a Japanese-American (nissei) you have pretty much a full run of the hen house in your respective "origin" countries.
<snip>
Taiwan does have a huge glut of unmarried 30+ something women though. I think these are the women that tend to look outside traditional Taiwanese society because you know..the clock is ticking.

Yes they welcome 1.5 gen and ABC's.

I just went through a relationship with a 30-year old in Taipei. Long story short, she doesn't want to move to California and I don't want to move to Taipei. Then I meet another girl and she lives in Taichung. She asked if I'd consider moving to Taichung. >_<

Story of my life.

I've known some 1.5 or ABC's move back to TW, get married, pop couple of kids, then convince the wife to move back to the US. But I'm just not that desperate to abandon my career and Orange County / beach lifestyle.

===============


Some interesting stats on TW:

* Taiwan has one of the world's highest home ownership rate at 87.8% (7.51 million households).
* Taiwan also has one of the world's largest home vacancy rates at 13.9% national average. That's 1.06 million homes sitting empty.
* The housing price difference between rural and urban is huge. In Taipei the average price per ping (36 sq ft) for new homes is 604,000 NT, versus 148,000 NT per ping for national average on new construction, and 108,000 NT per ping for used/old homes. The price of real estate in Yunlin County is 1/8th of Taipei's.
* Taiwan has a population of approx. 23 million, of which an estimated 1 million are living in China, and 5 million Taiwanese traveled to China in 2007.
* Taiwan has one of the world's lowest birth rates at 1.1. FBM (foreign born mothers) account for 13.7% of all births in Taiwan. That is, about 1 in 8 children in Taiwan are born to Taiwanese father and a "mail order bride" from Vietnam or elsewhere. In comparison, the number of children born to foreign fathers doesn't even register a blip.
* Taiwan is one of the top suppliers of military ammunition to the United States. From 2002-2007, Taiwan exported 1 billion 5.56mm bullets to the USA. However, the total value is quite low at 560 million NT, which won't even buy 1 UH-60M helicopter.
* Adultery is illegal in Taiwan, so if you have an affair with a married women, you may be jailed and fined.
* Taiwanese couples marry late. In 2006 government reports indicated that the national average marrying age (first marriage) is 32.5 for men and 28.5 for women. In urban cities the age is higher, Taipei being highest at 34.4 for men and 30.4 for women.
* Approx. 17.3% of the marriages in Taiwan are with foreigners -- almost exclusively foreign import brides. The average age for foreign brides from SE Asia is 25.
* The median personal income in Taipei is 50,000 NT, and 37,000 NT for Taichung and Kaohsiung. The exchange rate today is 1 USD : 30.376 NT. So 50,000 NT is roughly equal to $1,667 USD, and 37,000 NT is roughly equal to $1,233 USD.

[gits]

Heh, i'd take it with a grain of salt. This guy is trying to sell a book...

You know, I kind of take offense at that. I gave a link to a FREE list of all the after-hour places in Taipei. I didn't say anything in my post about buying my book. Is the link conveniently listed at the bottom of a page selling my book? Yes, but my book is a story about SARS and my life in Taiwan during that time.

And I'll tell you that, while I do play the use of sex in the title, I certainly wasn't getting laid as much as others, mainly because I'm not a player and don't use women. Once you gain the Taiwan girls trust, they can be VERY friendly.

[Winston]

Hi Gits,
I saw the photos of you and your girlfriend that you emailed me. She is quite hot, but doesn't look Taiwanese. She has more of a Eurasian look.

Where did you meet her? What does she do? You should ask her about my four observations. But of course, she would probably say something like "but not all are like that".

You aren't bad looking either. You look like a yuppie with a personality.

How have you tolerated being on a small island for ten years?

Too bad the rest of the list can't see her photos.

[gits]

Too bad the rest of the list can't see her photos.

Thanks for your positive comments.

She knows I do a lot of internet stuff, and has specifically asked me not to ever put pictures of her on the internet, so I have to respect that.

She isn't your typical TW girl, and has taught herself English fluently. She majored in an Eastern European language, and by dating me has stifled her dreams to go there someday.

If you want to meet a girl like her, you will have to troll the Universities, not the night clubs. I didn't do that though, I met her through a friend.

I love her, but I feel if I marry her without dating longer , due to our age difference, I won't be giving her a chance at personal growth in career and life. I'm 15 years older.

My friends tell me I can't do better, so part of me wants to sweep her off asap.

[Repatriate]

Heh, i'd take it with a grain of salt. This guy is trying to sell a book...

You know, I kind of take offense at that. I gave a link to a FREE list of all the after-hour places in Taipei. I didn't say anything in my post about buying my book. Is the link conveniently listed at the bottom of a page selling my book? Yes, but my book is a story about SARS and my life in Taiwan during that time.

And I'll tell you that, while I do play the use of sex in the title, I certainly wasn't getting laid as much as others, mainly because I'm not a player and don't use women. Once you gain the Taiwan girls trust, they can be VERY friendly.

Fair enough. Hopefully you'll share some of your experiences there with us sometime. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way but i'm curious. I haven't really spent any significant length of time on Taiwan.

[gits]

You look like a yuppie with a personality.

I'm definitely not a yuppie. I'm not Young. I'm not Urban. and I was never a Prep. I was just nicely dressed because of our anniversary.