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Winston's core differences with Taiwanese people

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby momopi » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:53 pm

If you go to the article's URL below, you'll see a page with a photo with 3 women in the upper right corner. What ethnicity/nationality do you guys think the women sitting in the back is? Eastern European?

===========

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati ... I%2Dto.htm

Tuesday, July 1, 2008

MOI to modify foreign spouse requirements

CNA

TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Interior Minister Liao Liou-yi promised yesterday that in three months time the ministry will revise the regulations that require foreign spouses to show proof of financial ability when applying for Taiwan identity cards.

Liao made the promise to representatives of foreign spouses in Taiwan who requested that the Ministry of Interior abrogate the financial certification requirement for foreign spouses.

According to regulations under the Nationality Act, in order to obtain Taiwan identity cards, foreign spouses must prove that they earn an average monthly income that is at least double Taiwan's basic wage, or that they have on deposit at a local financial institution a sum that is at least 24 times the basic monthly wage.

The current monthly wage in Taiwan, as promulgated by the Council of Labor Affairs, is NT$17,280 (US$568). Foreign spouses therefore are required to prove that they earn at least NT$34,560 (US$1,136) a month, or present a statement showing that they have on deposit at least NT$414,720 (US$13,642) at a domestic bank.

However, many foreign spouses, mostly from Southeast Asia and Mainland China, are married to unprivileged Taiwanese men and live in economically difficult situations, said Wu Yu-chen, who is from Vietnam and is a board member of the Taiwan-based TransAsia Sisters Association.

"Many foreign spouses borrow money from brokers to apply for identity cards and they have to pay a fee, while some even engage in prostitution in order to accumulate enough money," said Wu in a meeting with the MOI minister, adding that the regulation puts great pressure for foreign spouses.

Without identity cards, foreign spouses make less money than regular workers, are not covered by labor insurance, and cannot even apply for a mobile phone, noted Wang Chuan-ping, a cadre member of an association that provides assistance to spouses from China.

"The financial certification requirement is discrimination against poor people, as it discourages them from marrying foreigners and hinders the naturalization of foreign spouses in Taiwan, " said Tsen Chao yuan, secretary-general of the Awakening Foundation, one of the major advocates of women's rights in Taiwan.

Noting that many countries, such as Canada and Australia, only request financial statements from business immigrants, Tsen strongly urged the MOI to revoke the regulation.

In response, Liao said that his ministry will try to modify the regulation in three months time without amending the parent act. He acknowledged that it does not make sense and does not serve the best interests of the applicants if they have to borrow money from brokers to meet the financial requirements.

"The new administration is trying to adopt an open and practical attitude to serving people, rather than managing and controlling them like the previous Democratic Progressive Party government did," said Liao.

He however advised that foreign spouses make regular deposits to their bank accounts so that they can present proof of savings and also suggested that proof of their self-reliance can be provided by village or district chiefs or officially recognized non governmental organizations.

According to the MOI, 399,000 foreign spouses were registered in Taiwan as of the end of 2007 -- 262,000 from the China and 137,000 from other countries.

At present, 71,527 foreign spouses and about 200,000 Chinese spouses still hold residence permits, according to advocates of foreign spouse rights.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:08 am

Here is my dad's response:

"Dear Win,

You had the similar subject before and I had responded to you. I think your view about Taiwanese is very accurate. You are very perceptive. First of all, please don't mix Taiwanese with Chinese. Taiwanese and Chinese are very different in many ways and very different in moral value too. Because I grew up in that kind of culture and society, I am used to it and not able to see what you see. Taiwanese only date while they are young, while in college or high school. After that they don't date that much because they are busy working and end up dating and marrying their co-workers. Taiwanese don't have much social live. They might invite you over to have a cup of tea and the topics of conversation are limited to politic, the status of people they know and what in the news and TV series. This kind of culture is not for you of course and they don't approve your way of meeting as many girls as possible way of life.

Having said that, I still like to be around Taiwanese than Chinese or American. Basically, Taiwanese are very kind and polite, helpful and patient. They are honest, not greedy and very trust worthy. I could hire anyone to fix around the house and not worrying about being cheated. I feel comfortable and safe living in Taiwan.

Every culture is different, not good or bad, just different. We just need to understand and respect and choose to live around the culture we can tolerate and to our best benefit.

Love,
Dad"
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Postby momopi » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:56 am

momopi wrote:@_@ HK has the 2nd largest pr0n industry in E. Asia after Japan.


<cough> sample "night life" web site in HK:
http://www.wet123.com/home.php
http://www.wet123.com/single.php
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Postby Winston » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:42 am

Here's what my dad had to say about my incompatibilities with Taiwanese people essay:

"Dear Win,

Your assessement of the mentality of most (again, most) Taiwanese is quite acurate. Maybe I am part of the society and got used to them that I could not see what you saw. Now, you have opened my eyes and got me to wonder why they appear that way. I think most of Taiwanese are warm inside and it is the culture thing. I try to think was it because Taiwanese have been oppressed for so long, 50 years by Japanese and 60 years by Kuo Ming Tang, that they forgot how to smile. But, Chinese and Japanese act the same way. So, it must be the culture thing. Over all, Orientals don't have humor. You can see the comedy shows that they have to act so hard to make people laugh and still not funny. I feel sorry for them. But, I know that once you break the ice and let them feel comfortable with you, they are very friendly and helpful to you. On the other hand, Americans appear very friendly but deep down they are just appeared that way, they don't really want to know you or get too close to you. So, they are cold inside and warm outside while orientals are cold outsie and warm inside. "
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Postby Winston » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:52 am

Here is a similar perspective on this from a Taiwanese American girl:

"Hi Winston,

I feel that there is a lot of black and white thinking practiced in Taiwanese culture. Like you are "good" or "bad." If you don't follow the rules, you are not doing the "right thing" automatically and there are tacit rules that if you aren't aware of or don't follow make you fall outside the social circle and subject to censure (making it a difficult social mileau, and often frustrating mileau to work with at times if you are a freethinker who by definition does not follow social norms, nor has the capacity to keep up... especially with tacit rules). In America, most of the social norms are pretty obvious (there isn't any of this underlying tacit stuff you should "just know") although they can be equally as stressful. American social norms are often at odds with Taiwanese social norms-- in terms of self-expression, respect, identity, etc.This can be a source of tension for the Asian-American-- who either chooses into one or the other predominant culture, or suspends awkwardly in the balance to schizophrenic values until he/she has the courage to say screw it all and moves fluidly between both as an advertised outlier-- that would be me :) I tend to draw and be drawn to multicultural groups and experiences where nobody can fit a mold by definition. That is why San Francisco is a great place for me-- walking down the street... everybody looks different so there is an understanding that everybody fits in. In my opinion, asian-american groups can be the worst-- because the expecation to conform to a niche within the dominant culture is very strong-- more so than in traditional asian societies for some strange reason. It is particularly hard for me to fit into asian-american communities in southern california. Thank God for San Francisco with its middle eastern, european, asian, hispanic, and african communities....

I find that since I am attractive-- and for bizarre reasons have a look that is a blend between western and asian traits (I have pretty milky white skin, at least in the winter, reddish highlights, big almond eyes with double eye-lids, pretty defined chin and highcheek bones-- that make me look like a westerner) people are often confused by what I am anyways and tend to adopt me with fascination (from both cultures)--often asking me if I'm hapa, philipina, or korean. I am actually 100% Taiwanese blood, which is particularly strange. As a result-- I exude a multiculturalism that makes me simultaneously not fit in, but fit in everywhere.... I find I am often met with either cold confusion or warm fascination by asian groups in paricular. Some dismiss me for "not being a good respectful traditional asian" who is disciplined, reserved, clean, and socially aware like the tradidtional asian woman "should," and ohers (especially asian females) seem to hold me up as a role model-- since I meet the asian standards of beauty yet fall outside of the demure, cutesy mold. they often find it empowering to meet someone so "boyish and adventurous" (exhibiting some American traits in the way I hold myself) yet "feminine and prettyl" at the same time. I'm not being arrogant when I say this, but factual-- when I walk into a room of native Taiwanese or Chinese people I oftetn draw a lot of fascinated stares. Part of this is because (and Winston, I'm sure you could testify tto this) there is an almost lurid obsession with a certain kind of female beauty in Taiwanese culture-- many of the movie stars and singers get surgery for "double-eye-lids" and put on special creams to make their skin white like westerners. Mothers are obsessed with their daughters "looking good" and will often push them to great lengths because it is part of the package of "being good."This kind of look is almost associated with higher status or celebrityhood... often tied into the prestige of being successful or popular. I often feel very uncomfortable with this kind of atention becuase it makes me feel like I am being met on terms of my appearance (which I find very superficial and demeaning-- and I am quickly a target when my true personaliy comes out because of the attention as well. I actually encountered a lot of drama when I went to school out in California for the first time and delved right into the Asian community there (with the enthusiasm and curiosity that an asian growing up in a predominantly white town typically would), precisely because I didn't measure up to appearances and I could never really walk the tightrope of underlying social rules and expectations just right. One roomate even complained that I "wasn't raised on traditional asian values" and gossiped about me to all her friends. Some asian friends even felt they had to take on parental roles and judge me for my messy room, appearance, and "selfishness" (something that asian parents say a lot to their children growing up) I had never encountered this kind of drama growing up where I did, because all my friends were white (only my parents could say these things to me!). And often, I'd also be at odds with these white friends who complained I that I listened to my "crazy parents" too much! Talk about being kicked around by extremes!


I hope this was helpful to you Winston. My trick is to find multicultural communities where there are no rigid expectations-- only openmindedness, an insistence on tolerance, and a celebration of difference. I really like Mexican American communities :) "

Follow up:

"P.S. The black and white thinking... "good vs. bad" and the preponderance of "shoulds"... like a family "should" be like this... a person "should" be like this... a good student "should" be like this... are cited as negative thought patterns a walking DSM textbook case of a depressed person engages in. Talk about psychologically damaging! And to think-- Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is meant to combat negative thinking patterns that our culture actually engrains and promotes!!!!These are thought patterns a healthy person does not have--- who thinks in shades of gray and does not think of all life decisions and motivational factors in the context of "shoulds." The irony is that our culture breeds a whole lot of dysfunctional people given to depression and neuroses of all kinds... who can't even be properly diagnosed because there is even severe stigma attached to seeking therapy and medication. Now that is sad. I'm sure there should be hundreds of takers from survivors of that insane Mao cultural revolution... I fear the day that China becomes a superpower... holy shit, witht our atrocious human rights and envrionmental abuses-- the world would really go to shit. I wonder if this is our culture blown up at its worst.... "
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Postby momopi » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:27 pm

IMO teaching kids right vs. wrong is not a bad thing to do, as long as it's done for good reason.

When you discard traditional values (Confucian) and religious morals, it's up to the parents as the last line of defense in teaching kids ethics.

If you don't indoctrinate your kids with proper ethics, they might think adding melamine to milk to make a quick buck is acceptable, even if it gives babies kidney stones or even kill them.

Without ethics and morals, we're left with legalism, or "fear of punishment". It's like if your dog pissed on the carpet, you hit the dog with a rolled up newspaper.

Humans are supposed to be taught right and wrong, not treated (or neglected) as animals.
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Postby wraith » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:18 am

Traditional Confucian values weren't repressive to begin with.

Its purpose is to protect the extended family, and the society in which it lives in.

The idea of filial piety is to make sure children grow up to fine, upstanding adults who care for their childrens' safety and well being.

The one example of Confucianism I know of that I often see is that:

My parents invite their relatives to dinner, or vise versa. Usually the relatives are my father's paternal female cousins and their children. So when it's time to pay the bill for the meal, my parents would fight with my other relatives just to pay the bill, and try to fight over who hands the credit card over to the waiter/waitress.

It's the same thing when accepting/not accepting gifts. Usually, the whole purpose of Confucianism is to make oneself a better person and not to lose face in front of others. Usually declining a present or a gift given to you is a sign of modesty and trying to say, "I'm sorry, but I don't really accept your gift. I don't even deserve your gift." Usually, in Western culture, we say thank you when we receive a gift. (but in actuality, we don't actually mean 'thank you'. everyone is out for themselves.)

I received a gift from the mother of a close friend of mine (it was during a Christmas dinner last year), and I tried to decline it, because I felt that I don't deserve a gift like that if i didn't give them anything in return. I came home, and when my parents knew about it, they told me, "Hey, 'wraith', next time, you should give gifts to them to show them your gratitude."

The reason why my parents have some repressive aspects about themselves is that they want their children to succeed. They don't want to waste all their money for their childrens' future for nothing. Sure it could be repressive in some aspects, but in their mind, it's 'for my own good'. And if I were to have children, I'd think of the same thing too. It's natural for parents to defend their children and ensure that their lives are fruitful.

After years of fighting with my parents in my teenage years, I finally realized what they meant by saying those words to me.

Note: I consider Taiwanese to be ethnic Han Chinese.

@ Winston: I read one of your articles regarding Chinese culture, and I do agree with most of the points that you make, especially when Chinese parents consider things to be either 'work' or 'play'.
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Postby Winston » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:02 pm

momopi wrote:IMO teaching kids right vs. wrong is not a bad thing to do, as long as it's done for good reason.

When you discard traditional values (Confucian) and religious morals, it's up to the parents as the last line of defense in teaching kids ethics.

If you don't indoctrinate your kids with proper ethics, they might think adding melamine to milk to make a quick buck is acceptable, even if it gives babies kidney stones or even kill them.

Without ethics and morals, we're left with legalism, or "fear of punishment". It's like if your dog pissed on the carpet, you hit the dog with a rolled up newspaper.

Humans are supposed to be taught right and wrong, not treated (or neglected) as animals.


W: Sure, there's nothing wrong with teaching your kids right and wrong. But remember you told me once that many Asian parents use negative reinforcements to control their kids. Do you think that's right? That's sort of like making them live in fear. Is that healthy to you?

These Asian parents do not think about what they do, or evaluate if it's doing any good or if they should change it. They just follow "THE WAY" and that's that. The "way" to them is gospel truth and is not to be analyzed or questioned. You aren't supposed to think on your own in such asian societies. You are supposed to think in line with "the way" you are supposed to think. There is a right way, and it is your duty to follow that right way. That is their universe and paradigm.

They don't even measure the consequences of their actions. Instead, they feel that as long as they are following "the way", then they are doing the right thing, and consequences dont' matter.

Also Momopi, what do you think of cases like the following? Isn't this over-controlling, repressive, and closed minded?

â€￾Hi!
Great to hear back from you...
Well..shes done a lot of the things you mentioned on the site...
She tells us(3 daughters) how to eat..and what to eat for example if we're all sitting together for a meal...example: "Don't eat that alone-you have to eat it with rice."
She has never apologized in her life..
She believes that anyone that's younger than her doesn't know better than her and also doesn't deserve respect from her since she's the older person...
She feels that if you voice your opinion then you're being disrespectful..
She also feels that if you disagree with what she's saying-it doesn't matter-you're supposed to just sit there and "accept" it and not say anything back..
She feels that Koreans are superior to any other race..example: "Oh those cells phones came out in Korea way before they came out here" etc
She feels that women should find a rich man and be with him solely for that reason..
She thinks money is the most important thing in life...
She also thinks that the mold of going to school and studying is all there is to do as a young person..
She thinks that being a doctor or lawyer are the only two professions that anyone should try to pursue...example: I'm about to finish my Bachelors degree after transferring to two different universities--after declaring my major was Pre-Med-because that's what she 'told' me to major in..
Growing up-my older sister and I would get in trouble for bringing a "B" home and were not allowed to go out with boys or even go out with friends on weekends..
I had moved back into my parents' house about two years ago to try and save money to buy a place when I got closer to finishing school...my mother also assured me that they would remodel their full basement so I could live down there-this still hasn't been done to this day..
The other night..a Saturday..(keep in mind I'll be 28 next month and work full time and go to school full time at night and basically handle all my business without giving my parents any burden..) I was out on a date-I rarely go out--maybe-one night per week with all my other responsibilities..she called my cell phone numerous times and was leaving me messages like "That's enough-it's late and you need sleep." It was so embarassing to have my date wonder who in the world was calling me so persistently.
Anyhow-I got home and that's when we had our blowout--I basically told her to stop calling me every single time I go out and quit worrying about me since I was almost 30 years old. She yelled back and said "I'll call you 100 times if I want-you can't tell me what to do etc etc"
So after that I was completely fed up with her trying to force me to be her robot/puppet and decided it was time to move out. So I'm signing another apartment lease this week so I can move in this weekend and get my sanity back.
There are a lot of other issues too like my younger sister(20) who doesnt work and barely passes her college general education classes. But my mother lets her go out and do whatever she wants-even still buys her clothes at the mall--yet I'm the responsible one and I get treated like a delinquent. So about a few days after the blowout-note that I haven't said two words to her or vice versa since then--she knocks on my bedroom door and says something along the lines of "Get up-it's time for church" as if everything is just fine and dandy and nothing ever happened. Another thing she said was "Parents fuss because they care-if they dont, nobody will."
She expects me to just pretend like nothing happened and I'm supposed to just snap my fingers and act normal with her. Not this time. I'm fed up and removing myself from that mentality.
It's the most twisted mentality ever and I've just finally reached my limit. Until she understands that you can't talk to people or treat them any way you want-and being a family member does not justify treating people any way you want-I won't be letting myself be around someone that needs constant drama in their lives. Something else she's done is try to give the guilt trip--when I first moved out-she gave me the whole schpiel about "Oh after all we've done for you-this is the thanks we get??" She also doesn't understand the concept of people needing to "vent." I might go to her just to vent and relieve a little stress by talking about some minor problem going on at work for example. She ALWAYS responds by immediately having a "solution" to my "problem." It irritates me so bad I just have to walk away before I say something rude. She has very poor listening skills and will blatantly interrupt you while you are talking because she has no conversational skills.
Sorry for the novel-I got a little emotional about the whole thing. I hope this helps give you a better idea of what I was meaning. Those are just a few of the lifelong examples that I've gone through.
My older sister is 31 and my mother still tries to control her even though she's married and living with her husband about 15 minutes away from my parents' house.
The younger one is such a delinquent-she's taken off for days with random guys and my mother has taken her back and justified her bad behavior with excuses. I just can't stand seeing the hypocrisy and biased treatment that she displays with her children.
Thanks for listening!
Let me know what you think about this craziness..
=)
Victoriaâ€￾
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Postby momopi » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:58 pm

WWu777 wrote:W: Sure, there's nothing wrong with teaching your kids right and wrong. But remember you told me once that many Asian parents use negative reinforcements to control their kids. Do you think that's right? That's sort of like making them live in fear. Is that healthy to you?


A white horse is not a horse, because a horse is an animal and white is a color. Specifying the color is not the same as specifying the animal. If you need an animal, any colored horse will do. But if you want a white horse, a horse of any other color will not do.

Negative reinforcement is not the same as teaching morals/ethics. Negative reinforcement use fear of punishment to make the person obey, versus morals/ethics teach what is right and wrong. Just because someone does the right thing from fear of punishment, doesn't mean that he knows what is right and wrong, or has internalized any ethical values.

If your goal is to make the person obey, negative reinforcement will do. But if your goal is to teach ethical values, negative reinforcement alone will not do. Whipping a person in the back will only make the person turn his back to you.
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Postby Winston » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:43 pm

momopi wrote:
WWu777 wrote:W: Sure, there's nothing wrong with teaching your kids right and wrong. But remember you told me once that many Asian parents use negative reinforcements to control their kids. Do you think that's right? That's sort of like making them live in fear. Is that healthy to you?


A white horse is not a horse, because a horse is an animal and white is a color. Specifying the color is not the same as specifying the animal. If you need an animal, any colored horse will do. But if you want a white horse, a horse of any other color will not do.

Negative reinforcement is not the same as teaching morals/ethics. Negative reinforcement use fear of punishment to make the person obey, versus morals/ethics teach what is right and wrong. Just because someone does the right thing from fear of punishment, doesn't mean that he knows what is right and wrong, or has internalized any ethical values.

If your goal is to make the person obey, negative reinforcement will do. But if your goal is to teach ethical values, negative reinforcement alone will not do. Whipping a person in the back will only make the person turn his back to you.


W: I agree. That is my point. So don't you think when many Asian parents do that, that it's wrong and bad?

They do what they do, cause it's "the way" and the way is to be followed not to be questioned. They do not think or analyze, merely follow what they were taught as "the way" things should be done. That is their universe.

When I say or do anything outside their universe, I feel like I'm bursting their bubble or going against their "flow" and the natural order of things to them. It sometimes feels awkward, like trying to walk upstream against a norm.
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Postby momopi » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:46 pm

WWu777 wrote:W: I agree. That is my point. So don't you think when many Asian parents do that, that it's wrong and bad?
They do what they do, cause it's "the way" and the way is to be followed not to be questioned. They do not think or analyze, merely follow what they were taught as "the way" things should be done. That is their universe.
When I say or do anything outside their universe, I feel like I'm bursting their bubble or going against their "flow" and the natural order of things to them. It sometimes feels awkward, like trying to walk upstream against a norm.


A white horse is not a horse.

Traditions and traditional values is not ethics.

Traditional values evolved over time from a culture or community. It represents the norms and customs of the people. While traditional values may contain ethical teachings, the norms and customs is not ethics.

If we lived in a traditional head hunting society, beheading people and shrinking their heads would be considered the norm. But that would definitely fail the ethics of reciprocity, aka "the golden rule":

"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself" (Analects of Confucius).
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Postby Winston » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:06 pm

Rock, Momopi,

Here is a person's psychoanalysis of me and my problems with Taiwan. What do you think?

http://www.orientexpat.com/forum/16952- ... se-people/

"Yes, old topic. Indeed Winston Wu is a rare person (not necessarily bad though). His ideas are easy to find for anyone who had spent some time in either of the countries/cultures he mentioned. Although his four generalizations are as such, generalizations, they still reflect WHAT HE HAS SEEN probably correctly.

Now, what I can add to all this, and may be interesting is the following. First of all, he demonstrates very well how much influence upbringing can add to one's world views, as opposed to genetic traits. Second, his experiences with women or others in general are also a kind of mirror of himself: I am sure that would he have been a different looking, differently dressed, differently mannered/behaving individual, he would have experienced totally different reactions from the SAME people, hence, his observations and conclusions would have been different. (The world is a big theater: what you really are is one thing, but what others PERCEIVE of you who/what you are is another.) Thirdly, the world is indeed not only a theater (one could model the world like that indeed), but also an gigantic GAME. And as such, one could also look at each and every situation from a game-theoretical point of view as well.

Let me demonstrate my above three points with some practical examples.

First, he looks Asian, but was raised in the USA. Despite his Asian looking, he carries with him a North-American mindset. He may be able to reconnect with his genetic ancestors' lifestyle quickly, we would logically assume, as "it is in his genes". Wrong. The genes have nothing else to do, only SURVIVE. And, no matter what genes you carry, these genes are also playing games (see game theory). They try to maximize their chances for survival. Being born in the USA, being raised there and trying to think and behave like a mainstream Chinese would equal to suicide, hence the genes from early on learn to adapt to the environment. Nothing rocket science here. But this leaves behind a chance to get crazy: when you travel to an Asian environment with an Asian-looking face, but your "software" is not conditioned to that environment, a friction arises. The Asians are nowhere used to seeing foreign faces, as in Asian countries 99.9% of the populace is Asian(-looking). Hence, for an Asian to look at an Asian face and realizing that the "software" inside is totally different equates to "crazy". There is NOTHING you can do about it. So, I can emphasize with Winston: it's a terribly difficult task to sell yourself as an "American" with an Asian face. The rest of the world (including Europe, South-America, Africa, Asia, etc) still associates the "model American" face with that of its presidents, who were (up to now) all white males. Even though most educated people consciously KNOW that there are many immigrants in the USA who are from other parts of the world: because their proportion in mainstream media, leading positions in corporate life, etc is minuscule (in other words: because they are hidden), it is only normal from the world population to feel strange when encountering something different from their mainstream expectations. This sets the scene for all of Winston's "adventures": his "opening move" (talking game theory here), the first move on the chessboard, is already a non-conformist one. Hence, all subsequent moves on the chessboard will reflect this strange initial condition.

This leads to the second point: would he have been let's say, a Caucasian, good-looking character (or at least, someone who LOOKS LIKE one), he would have experienced a TOTALLY different Taiwan, with hot chicks swarming around him, being "open-minded", etc. As the French like to say: action-reaction. His observations about Chinese/Taiwanese being conservative is TRUE, but even the most conservative Chinese/Taiwanese mind/body can temporarily "bend the rules" in the presence of a hot bait: something that they can hardly resist. And let's face it: even for the richest Asian person, a hint to enjoy the rightly famous "European lifestyle" is irresistible: worth more than any wealth they can generate in Taiwan (or elsewhere, for that matter). So, would he have looked/behaved like Alain Delon, James Bond, or even Mr Bean, he would have seen a totally different reaction.

And third, thinking with a game-theoretic mind: let's play the "Taiwanese game" in our minds for a moment. Imagine you are born and raised in Taiwan, and listened to mainly Taiwanese media, learned from local textbooks, etc. If you know Taiwan's history, its present geo-political position on the world map, its cultural heritage, etc etc, you can easily see that an average Taiwanese person behaves entirely logically and rationally: he or she does NOT really have another choice. It's not like the people there have a "free will" to do whatever they please. Unfortunately, their hands are TIED. With a little empathy, one can understand why the Japanese work 16 hours a day, until they drop dead from hard work. It has not always been like that. Today yes, they do it. Not 400 years ago. The same is valid for Taiwan. Today they are the result of a specific HISTORY, which you can imagine as a PATH, a journey. The road is laid down in front of them, and they really do not have many options to steer their cart left or right. If they want to survive, their options are pretty much LIMITED. (Unlike these options for Europe or the USA, for instance.) Like everywhere, in the world economy is there are those who dictate the rules, and those who obey them. In this case, Taiwan is NOT a country that dictates rules, rather, one that OBEYS them. Hence, do not expect much "free will" actions from anyone on that island: that would be rather suicidal, and they, just like everyone else, are driven by genes that strive to SURVIVE.

Same model can be applied for sex. Sexual activity is of biological nature, and is needed by our genes to pass on themselves to the next generation, to survive. Sex is the survival game of our genes. They dictate the rules, we only obey them. Now, if Winston found that no Taiwanese female, for some strange reason, was inclined to engage in sexual activity with him, then even with a large sample it would be biased to draw the conclusion that it is because those Taiwanese females are "different". They may behave EXACTLY IN THE SAME MANNER as Swedish, Russian, Brazilian or Canadian girl, just the relationship between them and their objects (=Winston) may be different. The girls are in general a LOT MORE RATIONAL than one would think. (Males often have the perception that females behave irrationally: the funny thing is that just the opposite is true. Males THINK they are rational, while from a neutral obsever's point of view they are not; whilst females are widely supposed to behave irrationally, while again from the same external, neutral observation point their actions are 100% rational indeed.) Hence, a Taiwanese girl's mind works like a superfast computer, and she is looking for a male whose sperm she would like to use to fertilize her eggs. Girls do not do this consciously: if you ask them why they choose this male over another, they would probably say something stupid that no male would understand: "because he is so crazy", or "because he is so macho", or "because he is so gentle, humorous, elegant, rich, etc". None of them make any rational mind to those who try to analyze them: however, they are PERFECTLY rational for THAT INDIVIDUAL FEMALE's genes. Those genes are indeed making the "best choices". So, if Winston had luck with Russian girls, and not with Taiwanese girls, that doesn't mean that Taiwanese girls are less sex-oriented. Taiwanese girls are EXACTLY as sex-oriented, wild, hot in bed, etc like everybody else. BUT: their genes select DIFFERENT TYPES OF MALES for reproduction. And, Winston may not have been lucky to belong to this target pool of Taiwanese females.

All-in-all my advice used to be to people who want to experience the truth in game theory: do travel, move from place to place, and observe how differently people react to YOU. Assuming that you do not change skins like a chameleon, you will see that in every culture there is a different "cohesion": you either fit in that culture or you do not. For Winston, I think he would be the happiest being living in any Latin country (easy, because still 2/3rd of the world is occupied/influenced by the Latin culture): indeed the Latin civilization does not think he is Asian just because he looks Asian, and in general, the people raised on Latin civilization play a game where he easily fits in. The (currently) Anglo-Saxon dominated USA where he was raised is indeed still sweating to make a point: if that's not his piece of cake, he would indeed never feel right in that environment. Fortunately in our times, people can migrate easily and without much to lose these days: all you need to do to feel better is move your body to another spot on this planet, until you find a geographical location where your world-view fits in the surrounding environment as well as possible.

However: always keep in mind the dynamism, the TIME factor. When looking for a geographical location where you "feel happy", do not forget that it is a temporary match: the situation may change in any moment. Hence, studying the history of the place may help. Finding a place where you will likely feel happy for the maximum duration of your remaining life, would be the ideal choice.

Just my two cents. Sorry for having it less concisely than I would have done for a dissertation. Hope still readable... comments are welcome. ;-)"
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Postby Winston » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:37 pm

This point that he made about me was interesting:

Hence, for an Asian to look at an Asian face and realizing that the "software" inside is totally different equates to "crazy". There is NOTHING you can do about it. So, I can emphasize with Winston: it's a terribly difficult task to sell yourself as an "American" with an Asian face.


For some reason, I seem to repel people in Taiwan. Something in my personality and vibe turns off Taiwanese people who are not elderly. Only elderly people seem comfortable talking to me. It makes me feel like a total nimcompoop. I wondered if it was because I'm too assertive and outspoken. Or too outgoing and confident. Or that I'm not shy and introverted like I'm expected to be?

Either way, I definitely get the sense that Taiwanese hate me when I'm near them, or get weird out by me, even when I do nothing wrong. They just hate who I am deep down for some reason. I feel a vibe of dislike from them, as though they hate the fact that I'm not conservative and shy like they are or something. I can't explain it any other way.

The only people that want to talk to me and hang out seem to be western expats, Filipinos and Indonesians here. And elderly Taiwanese of course. Even my cousins avoid me and never invite me anywhere. In a way I feel more ostracized in Taiwan than I ever did in the states. It's like the Twilight Zone here. You'd swear that something nonnatural is happening to me here. It does not seem natural at all.

Maybe the guy above has a point. Perhaps Taiwanese do not like seeing a Chinese person with a white personality/mind, or "software" he described it above?

Or is there more?

Perhaps all the whoring I've done in my life has created a "different vibe or aura" around me that people can pick up instinctually, even if they don't know any facts about me, and so that repels them? After all, a man's karma can be felt from his aura or energy field. So maybe that's it?

I don't know, but I've never felt as ignored and estranged from society as I do from Taiwan. There must be something unnatural going on, since other expats here don't complain about the same things I do. And no travel blogs about Taiwan report about the people being cold or antisocial, despite the fact that Taiwanese admit that they do not talk to strangers easily.

Out in public, I don't see one smile or nod from any non-elderly person. EVER. People here are 100 PERCENT COLD to me here.

So how come only I notice this while all the other Taiwan blogs seem oblivious to this? That is the oddest mystery I've ever seen. A BIG MYSTERY that makes no sense. Am I the only sane normal person, or the only insane person?

I feel like I'm either in the Twilight Zone, Truman Show, or God is playing a bad trick on me. None of this adds up.
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Postby momopi » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:30 pm

Winston wrote:Maybe the guy above has a point. Perhaps Taiwanese do not like seeing a Chinese person with a white personality/mind, or "software" he described it above?
Or is there more?


It's called a double standard. There is no mystery. If you looked like 吳彥祖 (Daniel Wu, ABC), your cousins would probably parade you to their friends. "Hot bait" doesn't have to be Caucasian, and the "right gene pool" for reproduction doesn't have to be 4-eyes Taiwanese engineer.

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Last edited by momopi on Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Winston » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:06 pm

momopi wrote:
Winston wrote:Maybe the guy above has a point. Perhaps Taiwanese do not like seeing a Chinese person with a white personality/mind, or "software" he described it above?
Or is there more?


It's called a double standard. There is no mystery. If you looked like 吳彥祖 (Daniel Wu, ABC), your cousins would probably parade you to their friends. "Hot bait" doesn't have to be Caucasian, and the "right gene pool" for reproduction doesn't have to be 4-eyes Taiwanese engineer.

Image


That's so shallow. This is NOT about looks. It's about something far deeper. I am not that bad looking. And that guy is not that good looking either. Personality counts too you know.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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