Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


The truth hurts...

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby The_Adventurer » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:35 am

Yeah, but they really ARE culturally similar in many many ways, not just media. My friend, an older Korean man, told me in quite a bit of detail how much influence Japan has had on Korea during the empire days, and still does today through media. We travelled around Korea and Japan togeher and the biggest difference I saw was that the signs are written in a different language and in Japan the sun actually comes out.

I would say they are, in some ways, more culturally similar than New York and LA.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
User avatar
The_Adventurer
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Postby Repatriate » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:36 pm

Terrence wrote:
I would say they are, in some ways, more culturally similar than New York and LA.

If you want to talk superficial similarities you could say that all of NE Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc..) is all related. However if you know anything about the language and deeper aspects of the culture you realize that it's very very different. The Japanese "way" of thinking and doing things is much different than Chinese or Korean. There's no debating this really just take a look at history and the important aspects of it.

Korea was influenced by Japan the most when they were basically a forced colony in much of the early 20th century. However their culture actually originates more from the Han Dynasty in China and still has very unique Korean roots.

It's like saying Polish people are the same as Russians because they are slavic. It's just not true in the least if you know the culture.
Repatriate
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2533
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:39 pm

Postby The_Adventurer » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:33 am

Repatriate wrote:
Terrence wrote:
I would say they are, in some ways, more culturally similar than New York and LA.

If you want to talk superficial similarities you could say that all of NE Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc..) is all related. However if you know anything about the language and deeper aspects of the culture you realize that it's very very different. The Japanese "way" of thinking and doing things is much different than Chinese or Korean. There's no debating this really just take a look at history and the important aspects of it.


I speak Japanese pretty fluently and learned quite a bit of Korean during the time I lived there. I was shocked at the similarities, as were my local friends when I pointed them out. It is true, many of the things I am considering are superficial, but if you want to get into tilting cups, holding them with two hands while an older person pours a drink, and all that, I think the similarities have to be seriously considered. If you get too much into "deeper aspects" I can show you how California and Arizona are totally different culturally.

Repatriate wrote:Korea was influenced by Japan the most when they were basically a forced colony in much of the early 20th century. However their culture actually originates more from the Han Dynasty in China and still has very unique Korean roots.


You know, I've always wondered about that and I've been asking people here in China about that and they seem pretty unanimous that Koreans are not descended from the Han clan which usurped power from Qin after unification. They say they are totally unrelated. Maybe that is propoganda taught here, I don't know, but my own research into this has been somewhat inconclusive as well. When I asked Koreans about it, I got mixed answers. Regardles, much of Korean culture is lost in a haze of westernization, pop culture media and copying other countries. If you hang around young people, you will find far more similarities to Japan than you might realize and the even the generation gap is huge there. Hanging out with my 49 year old friend, versus my 19 year old girlfriend and her friends are two totally different cultural experiences.

Repatriate wrote:It's like saying Polish people are the same as Russians because they are slavic. It's just not true in the least if you know the culture.


Unfortunately, I don't know the culture of those people. I have spent a lot of time in Japan and Korea and some in China. I see Japan and Korea as being very similar, in many ways, and nothing like China. The language, the school system, easting habits, drinking patterns, work, nightlife (for locals not foreigners), laundry methods, architecture, technology, media, fashion, drawing styles, manufacturing, heavy industries, video game companies even alien policies. Most are very similar, usually with Korea copying Japan, and many are exactly the same. Korea has better food, Japan has more sun. So far I see China as standing completely apart from them, so I don't think my argument is tantamount to saying all NE Asia is the same.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
User avatar
The_Adventurer
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Postby Repatriate » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:44 am

Terrence wrote:I speak Japanese pretty fluently and learned quite a bit of Korean during the time I lived there. I was shocked at the similarities, as were my local friends when I pointed them out. It is true, many of the things I am considering are superficial, but if you want to get into tilting cups, holding them with two hands while an older person pours a drink, and all that, I think the similarities have to be seriously considered. If you get too much into "deeper aspects" I can show you how California and Arizona are totally different culturally.

To be honest I think you're suffering a bit from the "all asians look alike" syndrome. There's enormous cultural and philosophical differences. Korea is still based on neo-confucianist values with their own Korean spin to it. Japanese society is more about introverted conformity based on confucianist "warrior" culture that they carried over after the Meiji restoration. It's very very different in mindset. To be honest if you look at the modern trappings of all asian societies you'll see similarities there. I mean..pop music only has so many variations. I've seen middle eastern pop and r&b before and it doesn't look all that different from mainstream stuff like Shakira or R Kelly in presentation. Is the middle east the same as the west? Hell no, there's a world of difference there in culture.

You know, I've always wondered about that and I've been asking people here in China about that and they seem pretty unanimous that Koreans are not descended from the Han clan which usurped power from Qin after unification. They say they are totally unrelated. Maybe that is propoganda taught here, I don't know, but my own research into this has been somewhat inconclusive as well. When I asked Koreans about it, I got mixed answers. Regardles, much of Korean culture is lost in a haze of westernization, pop culture media and copying other countries. If you hang around young people, you will find far more similarities to Japan than you might realize and the even the generation gap is huge there. Hanging out with my 49 year old friend, versus my 19 year old girlfriend and her friends are two totally different cultural experiences.


The Korean traditional clothing, art, architecture, and a lot of other cultural things are directly influenced from the Han dynasty. I'm not saying that out of some sort of ethnocentric beliefs it's even been verified by asian history scholars who have written about this for literally centuries. You can even do a side by side comparison with Han dynasty scroll paintings. The dress is remarkably similar especially the headwear of higher officials. During the ancient times Korea was divided up into smaller feudal kingdoms and they were generally client states of the Chinese dynasties. This connection Korea has had with China is truly ancient and the borders blur at several points. There's a lot of ethnic Koreans who maintain their own language and cultural traditions who live in China still and never migrated to modern day "Korea" you can still find large villages of these people close to the border.

If you look at Japan much of their architecture is directly descended from the Tang dynasty. Even a lot of their buddhist and confucianist beliefs originated directly from missionary/cultural exchanges during this time.

You are right in saying much of NE Asia is connected but for the past 200 years the "modern" cultural rift has been growing. It's interesting to note that a lot of the animosity that you see Korea/Japan/China experience with each other is something that didn't really exist prior to the 16th century. Before that relations were generally amicable.
Repatriate
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2533
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:39 pm

Postby ladislav » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:14 am

I was in Istanbul this past May. So one of the tour guides told me a funny story. He was leading a group of Chinese on a tour. They had a talk in which he confessed that to him Chinese, Japanese and Koreans were very similar. They were in fact, the same. The tourists protested- No, we are not similar, we are not the same! YOU are the ones who are the same- the Turkish people, the American people, the Italian people, the German people, all of YOU look the same!

Let me quote one Japanese friend:

To me, Soviets and Americans are THE SAME!

Another one: Americans, Europeans, Australians- all the same to me!

To quote a Thai: Why do the Russians and Americans always fight? They are the same.

Being alike and being different are relative concepts. It is not so much how you perceive culture but how you perceive reality. Usually places that are a bit farther away look more similar to each other from your perspective but from their perspective the places near where you are at look similar to them. All white people look similar to East Asians. And all white and Asian people look the same to Africans.

Koreans Japanese and Chinese may look similar to a Western eye but not among themselves. But Koreans will see all white people as the same- all are English speaking Americans.

To a dog, humans and monkeys are similar but a wolf is different. To a fly, humans, monkeys and dogs are similar. But a wasp is different.

How two things are different or similar is really in the perception of the beholder and to what category he/she wants to put them into.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby ladislav » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:46 am

Cambodia banned marriage to Korean men because a lot of the wives were being lied to and sent to rural areas where they were frequently abused. It had nothing to do with racial/cultural reasons. Also, the Phillipines is probably the most colonial "western" asian country in existence. The idea of it "hating" the west is so ridiculous that it hurts to read.


Korea was not Cambodia's overlord.

For example, they would never ban the French from marrying Cambodians. Filipinos banning their American brothers, cousins, allies, best friends?
The Philippines was like Hawaii or Guam before. It did not become a state,though, but declared independence. The ties are too deep. Filipinos are called Little Brown Americans. Unless it goes Communist, no ban is likely.

The Philippines is not considered an Asian country by quite a few people. The place is so weird, there is not one like it anywhere. Senators with Polish names? Israelis who became naturalized citizens and then mayors of towns? US flags everywhere displayed by the people. And the biggest authority in the country is the Pope.

It would be like Indonesia banning Arabs from marrying local women. Unthinkable!
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby globetrotter » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:52 pm

Terrence wrote:You know, I've always wondered about that and I've been asking people here in China about that and they seem pretty unanimous that Koreans are not descended from the Han clan which usurped power from Qin after unification. They say they are totally unrelated. Maybe that is propoganda taught here, I don't know, but my own research into this has been somewhat inconclusive as well. When I asked Koreans about it, I got mixed answers. Regardles, much of Korean culture is lost in a haze of westernization, pop culture media and copying other countries. If you hang around young people, you will find far more similarities to Japan than you might realize and the even the generation gap is huge there. Hanging out with my 49 year old friend, versus my 19 year old girlfriend and her friends are two totally different cultural experiences.


Northern Korea was only briefly ruled once by the Chinese for 388 years and for most of its history Korea was left alone by Chinese Empires. They are a separate ethnic group that has been distinct from China for thousands of years both before and after Chinese rule.
globetrotter
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:45 pm
Location: Someplace Other Than This Forum

Postby The_Adventurer » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:22 am

globetrotter wrote:Northern Korea was only briefly ruled once by the Chinese for 388 years and for most of its history Korea was left alone by Chinese Empires. They are a separate ethnic group that has been distinct from China for thousands of years both before and after Chinese rule.


Yeah, that's what people are telling me here. Strangely I remember even some Koreans, though granted having spent a great deal of time in America, telling me differently. I have always wondered if maybe one group was building a history they wished had happened.


Repatriate wrote:To be honest I think you're suffering a bit from the "all asians look alike" syndrome. There's enormous cultural and philosophical differences. Korea is still based on neo-confucianist values with their own Korean spin to it. Japanese society is more about introverted conformity based on confucianist "warrior" culture that they carried over after the Meiji restoration. It's very very different in mindset. To be honest if you look at the modern trappings of all asian societies you'll see similarities there. I mean..pop music only has so many variations. I've seen middle eastern pop and r&b before and it doesn't look all that different from mainstream stuff like Shakira or R Kelly in presentation. Is the middle east the same as the west? Hell no, there's a world of difference there in culture.


Man, I sincerely hope I haven't fallen into the "all asians look alike" syndrome. I have been out there so long. As you said, though, looking at the modern trappings and that is really what I am talking about. The world I lived in when I was there in this day. I should also note, I don't at all think the people look the same. Certainly not Koreans and Japanese, especially the girls. Koreans seem to stand apart from all other Asian peoples in looks.

Ladislav makes a good point though. A lot of this comes from where I'm standing. Based on my schooling, the Korean and Japanese school system seems the same. They, for example, split the grades in the same places, which we do not. They have a class monitor, uniforms and on and on. So it is with cultural habits revolving around drinking etc. In the US we don't care how one holds a cup or who pours the beer.

Still, it is only Korea and Japan I see as being so similar though. Certainly not other countries, like China, Singapore, Thailand etc.

But Pop music? That's another story. I love India and Pakistan pop music (They used to play them both on one channel in LA) and I think it is nothing like US music, such as R Kelley or that Spears girl. But Korean and Japanese music, even when popular US producers like Dark Child are involved, have their own flavor. Yet their artists cross over all the time and they tend to blend together in many aspects. They certainly have their differences (I like KOrean music better overall) but I think they are in many ways the same, whereas Chinese pop, R&B and hip hop has a much harder sound, and the Philippines is a whole different story. I have trouble getting into the stuff from Thailand and so on...

Repatriate wrote:You are right in saying much of NE Asia is connected but for the past 200 years the "modern" cultural rift has been growing. It's interesting to note that a lot of the animosity that you see Korea/Japan/China experience with each other is something that didn't really exist prior to the 16th century. Before that relations were generally amicable.


I will never understand how you can have young kids, who were never involved in any of the historical stuff, have such hatred for the other groups. It can't just be "because their parents did it" because they often go against their parents on every possible issue. Maybe it's more because every else is doing it? Are schools teaching this stuff?
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
User avatar
The_Adventurer
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Postby globetrotter » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:51 am

"I will never understand how you can have young kids, who were never involved in any of the historical stuff, have such hatred for the other groups."

Well when great grandma is still shunned in Korea because the Japanese set her up as a forced comfort girl, or 60 year old men thank me for America disposing of the Japanese because of the 100 million Chinese they killed, I think it is fairly easy to see how even 16 year olds could get a flavor for what the Japanese did.
globetrotter
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:45 pm
Location: Someplace Other Than This Forum

Previous

Return to Asia, China, Philippines, Thailand

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests