Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


Taiwan Observations - Taboo, Deep and Truthful

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Taiwan Observations - Taboo, Deep and Truthful

Postby Winston » Tue May 26, 2009 1:42 pm

Taboo Observations About Taiwan That No One Would Dare Say

By Winston Wu
A Taiwanese American Freethinker
(an oxymoron I know, but I'm a rare kind)


See page here: (updated periodically)

http://www.happierabroad.com/Observations_Taiwan.htm
Last edited by Winston on Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:48 am, edited 18 times in total.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm







Postby Winston » Thu May 28, 2009 6:00 pm

An email response to these observations:


"Impressive..

That is basically most of the things I felt since a few moment after I arrived in Taiwan, working and being managed by taiwanese people.
Are you still here or you left?

I actually have a good life here but dealing with taiwanese people makes my life much more hard compares to the ease of life that a foreigner can have in asia. They manage to piss me off most of my working days due to bad decisions or weird behaviors all related to the points you mentioned in your article.

Seems like you actually managed to write down those ideas and feelings I have in mind.

Hao.

U have an awesome critical point of view and understanding of people and Ur article will be read with a lot of attention by a bunch of my friends who are having a hard time dealing with taiwanese exactly because they try to give sense to things, in a country where there is not and where they don t want it. (and don t even understand the purpose or not even see what was originally wrong)

Being managed by them is also terrible since they think giving you pressure and pushing you to ur limits by making you feel guilty will make you work better...
those behaviors actually makes me do the opposite due to my conception of life and relation with people.
I can be quite good in my job but I never felt so bad and unmotivated since I'm managed by them.

Would be happy to hear about ur experience in Taiwan.

Thanks for ur writing,

Alex."
Last edited by Winston on Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Postby Winston » Sat May 29, 2010 7:56 pm

Here are some new observations I just added to the article which hit me last night.


- In Taiwan, the friendliest people who smile and talk to strangers are elderly/senior citizens and children. Young adults on the other hand, are more cold and limit their social interactions to small cliques. One reason for this is that during the days of the older generation, (1940's, 50's and 60's) people were much poorer and were more open, friendly and communal. Neighbors were close knit and shared their lives. But as Taiwan got richer, people became more isolated, anti-social, cliquish, closed, selfish, less hospitable and less friendly, which is what usually happens when a country becomes more economically prosperous. As a result, rates of loneliness and isolation rise up. This is a taboo truth that people know deep down but are afraid to admit or are in denial of for some reason.

- Ironically, though the young generation of Taiwan considers itself to be more open, progressive and educated than the older generation, the reality is that young people in Taiwan do NOT smile or talk to strangers much, while the elderly/senior citizens of Taiwan are much more likely to smile and talk to strangers. It's a classic discrepancy between image/pride vs. reality.

- If you've never been outside America or Taiwan, or if you've only been to Taiwan and America, the two countries will seem like different worlds at first glance. However, when you spend a lot of time in super warm open cultures with high social energy, such as Russia, Latin America, Eastern Europe, or Southeast Asia and the Philippines, you suddenly realize that Taiwan and America are a lot more similar than you thought. Both cultures are workaholic, cliquish, puritannical in its values, unpassionate, isolated, and with little or no social energy and vibe (at least compared to high social energy countries like the aforementioned).
Last edited by Winston on Sun May 30, 2010 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Re: Observations about Taiwanese People that are Taboo

Postby Nate » Sun May 30, 2010 7:03 am

Winston wrote:http://www.happierabroad.com/Observations_Taiwan.htm

Observations about Taiwanese People
(that are taboo to talk about)

By Winston Wu
a Taiwanese American freethinker
(an oxymoron I know, but I’m a rare kind)
WWu777us@yahoo.com

“The only thing that counts for these people is food and making money...â€￾ - A Swiss woman who lived in Taiwan

Warning: These observations contains truths that are taboo and politically incorrect which may be offensive to the mainstream crowd which is accustomed to censorship rather than truth.

Intro and Disclaimer:



Winston-

On this we can agree. If people have not spent time anywhere else but the USA and the northern tier of countries in E. Asia, they have little to gauge it by. They do not know anything different. Yet in reality I find many aspects similar to the USA as far as attitudes, even if
the motivations are different. I have not lived in any of these countries, always there either in passing of just for a few days at a time, but that is always enough. Spending time there, after having lived in SE Asia and Latin America is not a warm experience and it seems to me that the majority of the population walks around with a stick up their butt most of the time.

I know there are all kinds of possibly good explanations- like the necessities of a cold climate and all, but who cares the reason? The outcome is no different. In SE Asia (now the Philippines and likely will stay that way for some years) I simply don't have to think about that crap. I have hospitable friendly people around, cheap good living, and all the Girlfriend options I could imagine ( Just ask Ladislav ).
Meeting girls is not rocket science. In SE Asia and especially the Philippines, meeting girls easily is unavoidable unless you are the dumbest most hideous man on the planet...otherwise it is simply the fabric of life...I don't have to have some "technique" if I wanted it to happen...it is simply there, like air. If I was not in SE Asia, I would be in Latin America, but I don't consider the northern East Asian countries an option...for guys who can put up with it, good luck to them, but it is certainly not my cup of tea...
Nate
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:53 pm
Location: USA/Philippines

Postby Winston » Sun May 30, 2010 10:49 am

Some more observations added:

- In Taiwan, you're almost "forced" to be shy and inhibited in a sense. It's hard to be outgoing because it just goes so much against the flow and thus feels inappropriate and improper. This is a bit difficult to explain. You gotta experience it to know what I mean. Basically, a really outgoing person will feel suppressed in Taiwan, like who they are has been tied down. Kind of like what Kryptonite does to Superman. This is especially the case if you are flirtatious with women, which in Taiwan are the most reserved and shy. Simply put, when everyone around you is very shy, reserved and inhibited, you feel like you have to follow suit, or else you'll be out of place, and I mean REALLY out of place, to the point that it creeps you and others out.

- Taiwanese parents teach their offspring to FEAR their enemies rather than be strong and stand up to them. In other words, they teach that one should yield rather than fight or stand their ground. They instill the fear of consequences in you, and warn you of terrible things that will happen to you if you fight your adversaries, so you best yield or compromise to them. Simply put, they teach weakness rather than strength, and fear rather than courage. That's not good for many reasons, but that's what they do. Not only do they do that with your enemies, but with ANYONE you come into conflict with, even when you are in the RIGHT! It's like they always take the other side and side AGAINST their own! That's crazy and simply wrong and makes no logical sense!

- Taiwanese have a very cold exterior. They may be good, kind and caring on the inside, true, but their exterior is definitely cold, stoic, stern, grim. They do not make eye contact with strangers, or smile or say hi, especially the females. Elderly people sometimes smile at strangers, but young women, no way! This is a very obvious fact. But most do not dare admit it publicly because it is not politically correct to acknowledge this fact.

- Taiwanese are workaholics and work 6 or 7 days a week, often with long hours til late evening. To them, this is normal and an honor. But in reality, they are giving away 80 to 90 percent of their lives in slavery rather than freedom or fulfilling rich meaningful experiences. But to them, the money they make justifies the complete loss of freedom and the priceless 80 to 90 percent of their lives. To me, it is sick and shallow, but that is their culture. That being said, you will not fit in Taiwan unless you’re a workaholic. If you’re not, there is no point in being in Taiwan.

That is why you find many Taiwanese immigrants and workers in Silicon Valley, California. Silicon Valley has a workaholic culture too, and since Taiwanese are workaholics, they are drawn there to give up their lives to work, work, work with little or no fun or pleasure or freedom. It’s sickening. But that’s them.

- Taiwanese parents teach their offspring to FEAR their enemies rather than be strong and stand up to them. In other words, they teach that one should yield rather than fight or stand their ground. They instill the fear of consequences in you, and warn you of terrible things that will happen to you if you fight your adversaries, so you best yield or compromise to them. Simply put, they teach weakness rather than strength, and fear rather than courage. That's not good for many reasons, but that's what they do. Not only do they do that with your enemies, but with ANYONE you come into conflict with, even when you are in the RIGHT! It's like they always take the other side and side AGAINST their own! That's crazy and simply wrong and makes no logical sense!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Re: Observations about Taiwanese People that are Taboo

Postby Winston » Sun May 30, 2010 11:36 am

Nate wrote:
Winston-

On this we can agree. If people have not spent time anywhere else but the USA and the northern tier of countries in E. Asia, they have little to gauge it by. They do not know anything different. Yet in reality I find many aspects similar to the USA as far as attitudes, even if
the motivations are different. I have not lived in any of these countries, always there either in passing of just for a few days at a time, but that is always enough. Spending time there, after having lived in SE Asia and Latin America is not a warm experience and it seems to me that the majority of the population walks around with a stick up their butt most of the time.

I know there are all kinds of possibly good explanations- like the necessities of a cold climate and all, but who cares the reason? The outcome is no different. In SE Asia (now the Philippines and likely will stay that way for some years) I simply don't have to think about that crap. I have hospitable friendly people around, cheap good living, and all the Girlfriend options I could imagine ( Just ask Ladislav ).
Meeting girls is not rocket science. In SE Asia and especially the Philippines, meeting girls easily is unavoidable unless you are the dumbest most hideous man on the planet...otherwise it is simply the fabric of life...I don't have to have some "technique" if I wanted it to happen...it is simply there, like air. If I was not in SE Asia, I would be in Latin America, but I don't consider the northern East Asian countries an option...for guys who can put up with it, good luck to them, but it is certainly not my cup of tea...


So Nate, I'm glad you can see the obvious too. It makes me realize that I'm not in some Twilight Zone or Truman Show where I am the only one who sees that the sky is blue or that water is hard to find in the desert. lol

I heard that Hong Kong, Japan, and Korea are also stuck up too, where there's no smiling, eye contact with others, etc. and people don't talk to anyone outside their cliques. Even Ladislav notices this.

So I don't get why travel sites and some expats say that such countries are so open, warm and friendly? It's like they are saying that water is everywhere in the desert. I can't figure that one out.

Can you?

There are people who say that LA is friendly and that it's easy to get dates there too. Such people do exist.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Postby Winston » Mon May 31, 2010 11:58 am

- One interesting difference between Taiwan and America is that in America, people can easily chat with a stranger, but do not easily them into their personal life or invite them into their home. But in Taiwan, people do not chat with strangers easily, but if they get to know you, they will welcome you into their home and personal life.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Re: Observations about Taiwanese People that are Taboo

Postby momopi » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:35 pm

Winston wrote:For some reason, every article and website out there about Taiwan is very polite, positive, politically correct and non-controversial. Other than a Swiss guy who also wrote a controversial article about Taiwan, I seem to be the only one that tells the accurate truth about it. Everyone else is too chickensh** to do so. This article and my Asian Mentality treatise are the only accurate assessments of Taiwan, according to several expats who are truth driven, on the whole web!


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editori ... 2003221843
"Having lived in Taiwan for close to three years I have noticed that service, accountability and responsibility are weak concepts here. More dominant is the desire to do what is easiest and best for oneself at the expense of others. We do not have to look to extreme cases to see that in Taiwan, "what can I get away with" seems to be the national creed. Three basic examples from daily life can demonstrate this point."

http://www.michaelturton.com/Taiwan/social.html#racs
"Racism is a serious problem in Taiwan. Blue-eyed, blonde people are preferred, with dark people on the bottom. Chinese racism is every bit as nasty as its western cousin"

http://zobenigo.blogspot.com/2010/03/on ... aiwan.html
"these people are ugly. The women have neither breasts, nor hips, nor buttocks. All faces are flat, all buddies tubby, all legs short -- the calves especially. The skin is often dull and mottled. "
"beauty has been bred out of the Taiwanese -- seems to have some evidence in its favor: the Taiwanese are not just ugly; they also lack the most basic aesthetic skills."

If you learn Chinese, you can read all the rabid & volatile articles published in the Chinese-language press. Though it's probably better if you didn't.


Winston wrote:- Even though Taiwanese students study many hours of the day, in both their primary school and after school private classes (bu shi ban), they don’t seem to know much. This is because they do not study for the love of learning, nor are they taught how to think. They study only to memorize data to pass tests, and then afterward flush the data out of memory. So their heart is not really in it. They are motivated by fear and the hope of raising their status through academic achievement.


It's called rote learning (versus comprehension). Taiwan is actually not the worst, I could point to the medical profession in Japan where certain newly certified doctors don't know how to use a stethoscope.

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/dec/12/world/fg-med12

"Japanese doctors go directly from high school into a six-year medical program built around rote memorization, which is a big part of the problem, critics say. Most professors view teaching as a distraction because promotions are tied to research. Clinical training is not part of the curriculum, and there are no mandatory internship or residency programs. In fact, it's illegal to be involved in patient care before you're licensed.

After taking the exam, however, the magnets flip. Newly minted doctors are fully qualified to practice medicine, even, in theory, to perform brain surgery after doing little more than reading about it."



Doctors in Taiwan aren't the best, but at least they know which end of the stethoscope to use when they get certified.



Winston wrote:Like the Christian fundamentalists, they believe that human nature is inherently evil and idle, and thus needs to be strictly controlled. "With too much time on your hands, the devil causes you to do mischief" so the saying goes. They believe that people need to be controlled and disciplined until they become hard working obedient humble people who are kept in line.


The first book that Taiwanese kids learn by rote memorization is the three character classic 三字經, which begins with:

人之初 People at birth,
性本善 Are naturally good (kind-hearted).
性相近 Their natures are similar,
習相遠 Their learnings/habits make them different (from each other).

I had to memorize the whole friggin thing and recite from memory for class. We're taught that people are like natural silk (pure and uncolored) at birth, and through teachings and life experiences, the silk is colored with different color dyes. Nowhere were we taught that human nature was inherently evil. However, what people actually believe is another story.


Winston wrote:Ironically, even though Buddhism is supposed to be an Eastern religion, Taiwanese people do not have a Buddhist mentality at all. Most are nothing like "Kwai Chang Caine" (David Carradine in Kung Fu). They have a highly materialistic mentality coupled with a strict black and white Christian style morality, rigid thinking, righteousness, judgmental mindset, and live in fear and are controlled by it. They also have short fuses and get annoyed or angry quite easily (remember how easily pissed and angry Bruce Lee got in his films, that's how he was in real life too) Plus, contrary to the Buddhist concept of being nonjudgmental and nonattached, they are highly judgmental, controlling and picky about little things.


You got it backwards. If people were nonjudgmental, then religion wouldn't need to teach people to be nonjudgmental. Also, many religious practices in Taiwan are products of syncretism.

Image
momopi
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:44 am
Location: Orange County, California

Re: Observations about Taiwanese People that are Taboo

Postby Rock » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:09 pm

momopi wrote:For some reason, every article and website out there about Taiwan is very polite, positive, politically correct and non-controversial. Other than a Swiss guy who also wrote a controversial article about Taiwan, I seem to be the only one that tells the accurate truth about it. Everyone else is too chickensh** to do so. This article and my Asian Mentality treatise are the only accurate assessments of Taiwan, according to several expats who are truth driven, on the whole web!

Why is that? Why am I the only one with guts? Why do people fear the truth? Why are they so programmed to be like the Travel Channel and say only polite noncontroversial things such as "Oh everything was so wonderful! The culture is amazing. The people were so friendly. The food was so good!" Etc. etc. Blah blah blah.

Why is truth often taboo, even when it's obviously true?! What an insane world. Am I the only sane person left?

No one has the courage to be honest anymore, cause the mainstream world is all about CENSORSHIP, CENSORSHIP, CENSORSHIP! You are only allowed to say and think what you are programmed to, not the way things ACTUALLY ARE. How sad.

So here it is. One of the few (or only) articles about Taiwan that is truthful and accurate.



Winston

If you think putting down Chinese makes your views uniquely non-PC, perhaps you need to do more reading, get out of your extended family bubble, and expand your Taiwan networks. I've read and heard an abundance of negativity about Taiwan and the Chinese every since I became interested in the culture. In fact, I've at times felt that by standing-up for them to 'in-the-know' foreigners, I was being a contrarion. Saying anything positive or even neutral about the locals was almost non-PC in some circles. And the English newspapers here used to regularly publish strongly worded rants by foreigners and locals about all kinds of things related to the local culture.

One of the first things I ever read about the Chinese was the English version of Bo Yang's "The Ugly Chinaman and the Crisis of Chinese Culture". Granted, the author suffered harshly under the KMT during the hardliner days of Chiang Kai-Shek. But he espouses extreme views which put-down all things that are Chinese; much more insulting and negative towards the Chinese and Taiwanese than anything you or the Swiss guy wrote. And this book gained a decent amount of traction with Chinese and others interested in the culture.

If you had visited Hong Kong, especially in the days of Chris Patten or before and gotten to know some of the British expats, you would probably have quickly sensed an attitude of superiority over and contempt for the Chinese people and culture. Such views have been expressed in much of their writing - books, newspaper articles, etc.

There's also plenty of non-PC stuff about Chinese and Asians on the Youtube and Internet. Do you want me to do a search and put-up some links in another post?
Last edited by Rock on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rock
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4117
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:16 pm

Postby momopi » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:24 pm

Winston wrote:Chinese people are commonly very picky and judgmental about little things, "anal retentive" in other words. It seems to be in their nature. This can be good for quality control and is one reason why Chinese food is so delicious and among the best in the world. But it's bad for human relations. This is why Chinese people often argue with each and sour their relations, even with relatives and close friends. They tend to make a big deal out of nothing. Their controlling nature is adamant about getting their way, and they lack people skills as well as the ability to compromise. Being highly tense, they are not at peace or at one with nature or the universe. As a result, Chinese couples tend to argue about little things over and over again, often for years without end. It's highly irrational of course, but this is the behavior of those who are petty, uptight and anal retentive.


The Chinese are pragmatic (doesn't matter if cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice) and prone to taking short-cuts. They're not perfectionist with their work like the Japanese. It's possible to get good quality from Chinese factory, but only under a controlled environment (see: Foxconn factory in China). I deal with Chinese suppliers in Shenzen for work.

They may give the impression that they're humble and not assertive, but that stops when they want something, then the oni face comes out. For those who don't know what an Oni is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... othing.jpg


I second Rock's recommendation:
http://www.amazon.com/Ugly-Chinaman-Cri ... 1863731164



Winston wrote:Although there are individual variations and exceptions to the rule, in general Taiwanese people and culture in general is narrow, conservative, prudish and square. Only two things matter to them, food and making money, making them very one-dimensional and no fun. They do not live to enjoy life, but to be workaholics and are empty without work.


There's a difference between working and making money -- you're not going to get rich from a paycheck. The paychecks in Taiwan isn't that great either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... P_(nominal)_per_capita

Many Taiwanese people know how to work, but not how to make money. The wealthy Taiwanese families I know from Southern TW are mostly wealthy from ancestral land ownership, and the wealth affords them to send their children to med school and their daughters with million dollar doweries. True entrepreneurs are still rare no matter where you go.

Taiwanese family-owned companies are also very bad when it comes to nepotism. The grandparents and parents worked hard to build up the company, and the kid blows the $ on high-class hookers in Taichung or run the company into the ground. If anyone still remembers Wang Labs, they fell the same way. Dr. Wang may have been a very capable person, but his son was wholly unqualified and ran a company from $3 billion/year in revenue into a sh*thole.
momopi
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:44 am
Location: Orange County, California

Postby Winston » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:59 pm

Another new one just added:

- To those who argue that Taiwan is "open and friendly" out of their pride and hippie mentality, here is an interesting logic puzzle for you. Statistics show that America has the highest rates of mental illness, loneliness and isolation in the industrialized world. Many on my site and forum attest to this too. Yet, Taiwanese commonly see America as being more "open, expressive, outgoing and friendly" than their country is. And they describe American friendships as "easy come, easy go". Now, if America is the loneliest, or one of the loneliest, countries in the world, and Taiwanese consider themselves LESS friendly and open than Americans, then where does that rank Taiwan? Below the "loneliest country in the world" into the negative or minus range??? Ponder that one! Gotcha! :)


Momopi, I don't understand what you mean when you say I got it backwards with the nonjudgmental thing and Buddhism. I said that Buddhism preached nonjudgmentalism, not that Taiwanese are nonjudgmental. What is backwards actually?

Even if you were taught that people are good, the fact that TW parents are strict and controlling and fear chaos if they aren't strict, means that deep down they must believe that people turn to chaos if they aren't controlled. Hence, that means human nature must be bad if it turns to chaos and idleness when not disciplined with strict control. That adds up and makes sense.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Postby Rock » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:26 pm

Winston wrote:Another new one just added:

- To those who argue that Taiwan is "open and friendly" out of their pride and hippie mentality, here is an interesting logic puzzle for you. Statistics show that America has the highest rates of mental illness, loneliness and isolation in the industrialized world. Many on my site and forum attest to this too. Yet, Taiwanese commonly see America as being more "open, expressive, outgoing and friendly" than their country is. And they describe American friendships as "easy come, easy go". Now, if America is the loneliest, or one of the loneliest, countries in the world, and Taiwanese consider themselves LESS friendly and open than Americans, then where does that rank Taiwan? Below the "loneliest country in the world" into the negative or minus range??? Ponder that one! Gotcha! :)



Loneliness in a country is not necessarily correlated with how "open, expressive, outgoing, and friendly" it is. I find people in many parts of the US to be all of those things. Yet they also seem very fake and plastic and that sort of behavior certainly does not make me feel less lonely. The thing that helps me most is that I have zero expectations.

I remember a few months ago chatting with a taxi driver who had returned to Taiwan a couple of years ago after having spent nearly twenty years staying in Orange County where his children still lived. He told me he felt lonely in the States because everyone was so private and socially restricted. But in Taiwan, he could call friends at almost anytime last minute, day or night, and get together or food, tea, or beers.
Rock
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4117
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:16 pm

Postby Winston » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:08 pm

Rock wrote:Loneliness in a country is not necessarily correlated with how "open, expressive, outgoing, and friendly" it is. I find people in many parts of the US to be all of those things. Yet they also seem very fake and plastic and that sort of behavior certainly does not make me feel less lonely. The thing that helps me most is that I have zero expectations.

I remember a few months ago chatting with a taxi driver who had returned to Taiwan a couple of years ago after having spent nearly twenty years staying in Orange County where his children still lived. He told me he felt lonely in the States because everyone was so private and socially restricted. But in Taiwan, he could call friends at almost anytime last minute, day or night, and get together or food, tea, or beers.


How are typical Americans "open, expressive, outgoing, and friendly"? Do you mean they way they jeer in bars? The way they go "Yahoooooo. Eeeeeehaw!" when they win? The way they yell in sports games? The way they go "Alright. YA!"? Or when they yell "PARTY ON!"?

To me that's loud pumping, not open and friendly.

Or the way two strangers walking their dog pass each other and smile and say hi and just pass by?

Or the way Americans are friendly and expressive in movies?

I can't see how I could be lonely in an "open, expressive, outgoing, and friendly" country. How do you define those terms?
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Postby momopi » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:38 pm

Winston wrote:Momopi, I don't understand what you mean when you say I got it backwards with the nonjudgmental thing and Buddhism. I said that Buddhism preached nonjudgmentalism, not that Taiwanese are nonjudgmental. What is backwards actually?


What you said: "even though Buddhism is supposed to be an Eastern religion, Taiwanese people do not have a Buddhist mentality at all"

Put that in reverse, like "Because people are <XYZ>, religious teachings were invented to preach <nonXYZ>".
Last edited by momopi on Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
momopi
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:44 am
Location: Orange County, California

Postby Winston » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:45 pm

momopi wrote:
Winston wrote:Momopi, I don't understand what you mean when you say I got it backwards with the nonjudgmental thing and Buddhism. I said that Buddhism preached nonjudgmentalism, not that Taiwanese are nonjudgmental. What is backwards actually?


What you said: "even though Buddhism is supposed to be an Eastern religion, Taiwanese people do not have a Buddhist mentality at all"

Put that in reverse, like "Because people are <XYZ>, religious teachings were invented to preach <non>".


I still don't get you. But never mind. Maybe it's just semantics :)
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23571
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Next

Return to Asia, China, Philippines, Thailand

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests