My Observations on Taiwan and Taiwanese People - Taboo but Truthful and Deep

[De]

But after we realize what's going on in Taiwan... we still don't know what can be done.

What can we do to change this.

Any thoughts anyone?

[Winston]

But after we realize what's going on in Taiwan... we still don't know what can be done.

What can we do to change this.

Any thoughts anyone?

You can't change other people or a whole society. Just leave and go somewhere better.

[Rock]

But after we realize what's going on in Taiwan... we still don't know what can be done.

What can we do to change this.

Any thoughts anyone?

You can't change other people or a whole society. Just leave and go somewhere better.

Exactly. That's the answer to about everything you complain about these days. Just do it already. Here's the checklist:

- Procure your Tai Bao Zheng: DONE

- Have Xiongmao or ex line up new base for your operations in Guangdong: READY TO DO PENDING YR GREEN LIGHT

- Buy cheap ticket, pack, and go: JUST DO IT

[momopi]

But after we realize what's going on in Taiwan... we still don't know what can be done.

What can we do to change this.

Any thoughts anyone?

You can't change other people or a whole society. Just leave and go somewhere better.

...and when will you take action to follow your own advice?

[keepingitreal]

But after we realize what's going on in Taiwan... we still don't know what can be done.

What can we do to change this.

Any thoughts anyone?

You can't change other people or a whole society. Just leave and go somewhere better.

now that's my nigga right there . Finally you realized that.

[De]

some people don't have the facilities to just leave!

some people have to stay here for a while...
i mean, we don't need to change them, just find a way to counter this!

and by no means i want to degrade myself or change myself in the process, that's the problem.

I find Winstons observations to be really accurate, intellectuals goes through the worst...

[Winston]

Check out these observations about Taiwan that someone sent to me. He may be from the forum. I don't know. But his observations about Taiwanese people are spot on. So you see, the problem isn't me. I'm not the one that's cold and never talks to strangers. I can start conversations with strangers easily and naturally. But in Taiwan, only elderly people can do that.

See below:

"Hi Winston.
I read your forum posts on why you wanted answers to why Taiwanese in
general are cold and unfriendly. As someone who has written to you before
and is locked up here, Taiwanese (and other yellow people) are much less
sociable compared to other races. J. Philippe Rushton had a research paper
called 'Race, Evolution, Behavior' where he details the racial differences
between whites, yellows, and blacks. I can provide you the .pdf file, but
not now as I'm writing this email from a public computer.

Secondly, Taiwan is a business-minded society, rather than a society that
emphasizes personal happiness. Even in the workplace, the administration
will say that you come there to make money, not friends, because chatting
up with coworkers is seen as being useless. I agree 100% with your forum
posts and criticisms of Taiwan that Taiwan is cold and unfriendly, etc.

You live with your parents, but even if you live in a rented apartment, it
feels impossible to try to chat up with people you live side by side with.
I've been renting apartments for the past 3 years here, and even if you
live in the same floor with others, if you attempt to talk to them, they
will just ignore you or be unhappy or disturbed that you talked to them. I
once had to live side by side with a woman who was very mean even if I
requested nicely for her to do something.

Did you ever think about running away from your parents when you were in
your teen years? I did, but I had always wanted to rely on my parents to
let me live somewhere where I felt included, but they were never
interested in doing so. My mom said that they wouldn't be able to support
themselves financially outside of Taiwan, and she openly said that
meaningful life experiences were unnecessary.

How long will you be in Taiwan? If you have any questions or comments, you
can write back to me and I'll do my best to reply. I don't know when I
will be released from this hellhole either."

After he sent me the PDF he mentioned, he then wrote:

"Look under sociability, among the first few pages. Rushton was not really
liked among politically correct academics.

I would describe Taiwan as being a slave mentality society, where 99% of
Taiwanese feel that people were born to do only 3 things: to work, to
obey, and to follow/conform. You had written that Taiwanese and yellows in
general live to be enslaved, and living here certainly feels like slavery.
I think it's where the cold and repressed vibe of Taiwanese society comes
from-- that the self is sacrificed for the group. If you read newspapers
here in Taiwan, there's regularly news stories about children and teens
being physically abused or punished just because they stepped out of line
too much--whether it's just being a kid, or dyeing the hair, or getting a
tattoo, etc."

[keepingitreal]

But after we realize what's going on in Taiwan... we still don't know what can be done.

What can we do to change this.

Any thoughts anyone?

Matter fact, there is a way. First, we'll have to get traditionalists and conservatives out of business and have everyone uses their common sense rather than being completely relying on book smart. It helps the economic too, because that way both China and Taiwan won't need to rely on the US. People will realized what Chinese people can accomplished and how China and Taiwan will be heaven on earth once the traditionalists are gone and both of them reunited under a Jamahiriya style of direct democracy system.

Has anyone here checked into the Jamahiriya system by Muammar Gaddafi? It's a similar concept for Chinese people, combined with a dose of Libertarianism, as well as making kids independent earlier. They get to work and live on their own at an earlier ages. Lower the rents to make housing more available. Everyone will be encouraged to be independent since they were little. Loosen up gun controls so everyone can defend themselves, which make the country hard to invade. Decisions were made by the common people through popular congress. Government's role will be limited in only improving lives and maintain basic orders and reduce the control element of government to minimum. When Taiwan and China united, which they should, there will be natural resources, which we can nationalize and bring wealth to the country, funding the system and building up military. A good air defense and everyone own guns, so NATO wouldn't bother (From my honest belief, the West actually like to see Chinese people the way they currently are. That way there will never be a real Chinese superpower and Sino-cultural group will forever be a warm bed for rich white businessman and crony capitalism.).

All of this is dedicated for Chinese people to be individual who know how to use common sense. That way Chinese people will no longer be oppressed and finally be happy. Chinese people will no longer be slaved by the West.

With all that being said...it can be done...well, with plenty of dollars, couple people get arrested, or even killed, or even worse...there will be a risk of a large scale civil war that can rival the one they got in Syria. And there might be a chance you'll end up like Muammar Gaddafi if you somehow got the traditionalists out of control as those son of bitches will be on your ass (Islamist in Gaddafi's case.). Anyone got balls like that?

[momopi]

Foreign-born TW residents talk about what's good and bad with TW:

some people don't have the facilities to just leave!
some people have to stay here for a while...

It's not the facility (something that permits the performance of an action or course of conduct) issue. If Winston had opted to stay in TW to save money (a necessary resource to buy plane tickets and pay rent/food), that goal has been accomplished. If he has some list of tasks, we can review that list and point out that he can either pay someone to do them or they can be done from abroad. If he's unable to get off his chair because of energy sucking psychic vampires leaving him drained of energy and full of anger, resentment, loneliness, and self-pity, then perhaps he should consult this book:

(No, I don't really believe in the stuff, but if it works as a placebo, then it's just as good)

Matter fact, there is a way. First, we'll have to get traditionalists and conservatives out of business and have everyone uses their common sense rather than being completely relying on book smart. It helps the economic too, because that way both China and Taiwan won't need to rely on the US. People will realized what Chinese people can accomplished and how China and Taiwan will be heaven on earth once the traditionalists are gone and both of them reunited under a Jamahiriya style of direct democracy system.

As a reactionary, I'm pro-traditionalist (to a point) and support the reinstatement of rituals and rites.

[Falcon]

Winston, you've got these comments in your guestbook from a guy called "James." They're all dated 2012-11-26.

Winston,

I've visited your site before. While I don't 100 percent agree with your opinions on other stuffs, but on THIS ONE, I'll have to say that I see the points you coming from. You have pointed out some real major problems that exist in many parts of East Asia, particularly Taiwan and perhaps South Korea.

As someone who's from that place and moved to the US when I was 14, I can shed some insight with you. Many Taiwanese were raised with child abuse...despite average Taiwanese might disagree with this, IT IS child abuse. Sure I don't agree with completely spoiling the children neither, but East Asian's idea of disciplining children is pretty much like treating the children like an animal for little mistakes. Some of method of physical punishments even borderlines with sexual assault...caning inner thigh below crotch, standing outside in only underwear and bra (shit like that happened before.), yet nobody does shit. With this abusive upbringing, alongside with the isolation of the children proposed by the typical Asian family and the typical Asian attitude regarding academic success, you have these zombie like creatures known as what you've seen in Taiwan.

I was lucky enough to be an outcast at school before I moved to the US, thus avoid most of their poison and able to assimilate a lot faster than the rest of fobs.

I wish to discuss with you more about this subject on the forum or through email. Anyways, nice post.

And just another something, economic doesn't seem to be the issue here as Taiwan and South Korea are all richer than many third world countries. They say child abuse is more of a "poor people problems.". It's not working that way in those parts of the world. Matter fact, from my experience, the upper-middle class and middle class in Asia seems to be more inclined toward physically and mentally abusing their own kids and put them in "cram school" compared to the poor ones. (Winston, you been to Taiwan before, I'm sure you know what cram school means.).

Matter fact, you know what? I always feel that East Asian culture and attitude just seem so...womanly. It seems to be a culture created by an overly-controlling woman, and for women. I mean the way how they over react to the small mistakes by their kids, and if you ever worked in Chinese restaurant, they are all angry and shit over some little shit. It seems that they cannot cope with stress too well. It's a sign of being feminine. There are other examples you can find in their sense of fashion and even the methods they choose to physically abuse their kids as well...out of all child abusers around the world, East Asian's methods seem to be the kinkiest I've encountered.

As a Taiwanese American who was raised this way, I really do have to say that I strongly agree with James. However, this definitely does not apply to all Taiwanese parents, but it certainly is a common trend. This tends to be more common with the super-achieving Taiwanese immigrants abroad, than with the Taiwanese back home.

Many parents in various other countries do this to their children too, for example India.

To undo this, I went on many solo adventures abroad. Your upbringing does not have to trap you. You can grow out of it with optimism and perseverance.

[abcdavid01]

Winston, you've got these comments in your guestbook from a guy called "James." They're all dated 2012-11-26.

Winston,

I've visited your site before. While I don't 100 percent agree with your opinions on other stuffs, but on THIS ONE, I'll have to say that I see the points you coming from. You have pointed out some real major problems that exist in many parts of East Asia, particularly Taiwan and perhaps South Korea.

As someone who's from that place and moved to the US when I was 14, I can shed some insight with you. Many Taiwanese were raised with child abuse...despite average Taiwanese might disagree with this, IT IS child abuse. Sure I don't agree with completely spoiling the children neither, but East Asian's idea of disciplining children is pretty much like treating the children like an animal for little mistakes. Some of method of physical punishments even borderlines with sexual assault...caning inner thigh below crotch, standing outside in only underwear and bra (shit like that happened before.), yet nobody does shit. With this abusive upbringing, alongside with the isolation of the children proposed by the typical Asian family and the typical Asian attitude regarding academic success, you have these zombie like creatures known as what you've seen in Taiwan.

I was lucky enough to be an outcast at school before I moved to the US, thus avoid most of their poison and able to assimilate a lot faster than the rest of fobs.

I wish to discuss with you more about this subject on the forum or through email. Anyways, nice post.

And just another something, economic doesn't seem to be the issue here as Taiwan and South Korea are all richer than many third world countries. They say child abuse is more of a "poor people problems.". It's not working that way in those parts of the world. Matter fact, from my experience, the upper-middle class and middle class in Asia seems to be more inclined toward physically and mentally abusing their own kids and put them in "cram school" compared to the poor ones. (Winston, you been to Taiwan before, I'm sure you know what cram school means.).

Matter fact, you know what? I always feel that East Asian culture and attitude just seem so...womanly. It seems to be a culture created by an overly-controlling woman, and for women. I mean the way how they over react to the small mistakes by their kids, and if you ever worked in Chinese restaurant, they are all angry and shit over some little shit. It seems that they cannot cope with stress too well. It's a sign of being feminine. There are other examples you can find in their sense of fashion and even the methods they choose to physically abuse their kids as well...out of all child abusers around the world, East Asian's methods seem to be the kinkiest I've encountered.

As a Taiwanese American who was raised this way, I really do have to say that I strongly agree with James. However, this definitely does not apply to all Taiwanese parents, but it certainly is a common trend. This tends to be more common with the super-achieving Taiwanese immigrants abroad, than with the Taiwanese back home.

Many parents in various other countries do this to their children too, for example India.

To undo this, I went on many solo adventures abroad. Your upbringing does not have to trap you. You can grow out of it with optimism and perseverance.

I just read that book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" about a Chinese-American who did that with her kids, but within the acceptable level to prevent breaking U.S. child abuse laws. My mom said she was raised that way and gave it to my dad because they've been talking about how I dropped out of college. My mom wasn't a tiger mother though, or really much of a mother at all.

[Winston]

Some new observations about Taiwan I realized:

- Relatives in Taiwan aren't as close as they used to be. Back in the 1980's, our relatives would visit us more often and would have longer more extensive conversations with us until late at night. Talking to them felt more natural and close. But nowadays they only pay brief visits or have dinner with us, for only an hour, and then part ways before 8pm so that everyone can return to their "privacy and space". Same as when we visit them. Nowadays, the need for privacy in Taiwan seems to outweigh the need for social contact. Same as in America. It's as if people in Taiwan are trying to MINIMIZE social contact and keep it to a minimal, becoming more isolated. It's as if a "private wall" has been erected between people in Taiwan now so that people PREFER privacy over social contact. It's very sad. In addition, the contact that we do have with our relatives is very SUPERFICIAL now, like a polite formality with no real connection or closeness.

I brought this up to my relatives, most of whom were around in the 1980's, so they must know what I mean. However, they didn't seem to care. They believe that one should change with the times, even if it means being less social with others. Even though they know I'm right, they don't want to say that something is wrong with current times, or admit that it's a change for the worse. In their minds, one must always adapt to modern trends in order to survive in this world (as in Darwinian Evolution) rather than go against them. In their view, fighting what society has become is futile, so it's better not to condemn it. Current trends must be accepted, in their view. The majority and authority must be conformed to for one's own good. This is the Taiwanese/Chinese view and mentality. (However, history never remembers those who simply conform and accept things the way they are. History only remembers those who changed things and went against the norm. I've explained this to them. But the average Taiwanese or Chinese isn't interested in being remembered by history.)

- Most friendships are very superficial in Taiwan. In big cities of Taiwan such as Taipei and Taichung, you can find friendly people so it is easy to make a few friends and acquaintances. However, 99 percent of these friendships will be SUPERFICIAL, more like acquaintances. But down south in older backward cities like Chiayi, people are so closed and unsocial that it's hard to make even superficial friendships. There is a strong negative antisocial vibe in those areas, much like Seattle, WA and Bellingham, WA. People want to isolate themselves and minimize social contact and mind their own business. There's no enthusiasm about meeting others or getting to know others. Another reason for this is below. Unfortunately, most people equate politeness with friendliness, hence the mainstream view that Taiwanese are "very friendly".

- Taiwan does not attract deep souls. Trying to find a deep soul in Taiwan is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. The people and social culture in Taiwan are very reserved, repressed and superficial. Even most foreigners in Taiwan are like that too, because that's the type of people that Taiwan attracts. (In contrast, the foreigners you meet in Russia tend to be open-minded, freethinking and into alternative things, because the wild open social Russian culture attracts those type of visitors. And plus, Russia is considered an unconventional tourist destination, so those who go there tend to be unconventional.) Also, in Taiwan, people don't laugh much. They have a serious face and it's hard to make them to laugh. When I try to, I'm often met with silence, which is awkward. I have a much easier time making Filipinos and Russians laugh.

The bad news about this is that if you are a deep soul, you will feel ALIENATED and out of place in Taiwan, like you don't belong. People will think you're weird if they get to know you. If you aren't repressed, reserved and superficial like Taiwanese are, they will dislike you and feel uncomfortable around you and avoid you. This is especially the case if you look Asian, because you are expected to be reserved and repressed too. A deep authentic soul in Taiwan who is open minded, freethinking and loves truth, will feel like a "germ" entering an organism's body that is going to be attacked by the "white blood cells" of the organism's immune system because he/she doesn't belong.

- Taiwan is not a pure Chinese culture and has been contaminated by bad aspects of American and Japanese culture. That's one reason Taiwanese are so reserved and repressed to the extreme, much more so than mainland Chinese. Taiwan culture is a blend of Chinese, Japanese and American culture. Taiwanese have many Japanese traits, such as looking grim and solemn, not making eye contact with strangers, being indirect, not talking to strangers, being cliquish, only talking to new people who are properly introduced by mutual friends, etc. This is because Japan occupied Taiwan for 50 years and improved it, which left the Taiwanese with an admiration for Japanese culture and ways. The problem with Taiwanese adopting Japanese traits is that nothing in any extreme is good, including being too reserved and repressed. If Taiwanese would open up and be 20 percent more open, wild, easygoing and carefree, it would be a much more fun place. As of now it is way too uptight. You can see this on people and feel it in their vibe too.

The American influence on Taiwanese culture comes from the long-standing protection that the US government has given Taiwan from China to maintain a Western stronghold there. With US protection comes Western influence of course, since America takes every opportunity that it can to control and influence every country it can get its hands on for it's own advantage, as we all know. This is why the young Taiwanese generation has now adopted bad traits from American culture, such as being narcissistic, disrespecting parents, not wanting to get married, and getting tattoos, which they now see as "cool" -- these are traits that Taiwanese did not have before.

Mainland China, on the other hand, has kept out such negative degenerate aspects of American culture, and that's why tattoos are still considered ugly and distasteful there, as they should be. China still has a normal sense of good and bad, whereas America has inverted them and is trying to get the rest of the world to do the same. Throughout history, moralistic virtuous societies, such as Victorian England, have deemed tattoos as a desecration of one's body. But as we all know, concepts such as "morality and virtue" are outdated and have no value in modern liberal America.

- Young adults in Taiwan are politically correct and do not like hearing anything negative, no matter how true. Everything must be positive, polite, superficial and lighthearted. Political correctness is more important than truth in Taiwan, as it is in America. In Taiwan, a positive lie is better than a negative truth, same as in America. Deep heavy truths are out of place. So Taiwan is a philosopher's nightmare. Modern Taiwanese do not love truth. They are not philosophers. They are politically correct conformists who desire the superficial over the meaningful. This is primarily the case with Taiwanese in their 20's and 30's. But those past middle age tend to be more down to earth and open to hearing sincere deep truths like the above.

What this means is that the above truths will be met with awkwardness in Taiwan, because they make Taiwan look unnatural, shallow and repressed. You are only expected to say positive things about Taiwan, such as "People are so friendly! Taiwan is wonderful and good!" etc. Only older folks and elderly folks will tolerate the truths above and accept them as self-evident. Yet ironically, there is this stereotype that older people are more rigid, old fashioned and narrow minded, while young people are more open minded, liberal and progressive. But I find the truth to be the reverse, because mainstream young people are too obsessed with being "cool", popular and accepted by their peers to care about the truth. To them, what's popular is more important than what's true. One of the most ironic things in life is that truth is often the OPPOSITE of what popular stereotypes propagate. Such is the Twilight Zone like nature of the modern world.

[Winston]

Some new observations about how Taiwan has gotten worse socially, spiritually and culturally, and how it's turning into an Asian version of America:

http://janet-hsieh-sucks.blogspot.tw/20 ... worse.html

[momopi]

Mainland China, on the other hand, has kept out such negative degenerate aspects of American culture, and that's why tattoos are still considered ugly and distasteful there, as they should be. China still has a normal sense of good and bad, whereas America has inverted them and is trying to get the rest of the world to do the same. Throughout history, moralistic virtuous societies, such as Victorian England, have deemed tattoos as a desecration of one's body. But as we all know, concepts such as "morality and virtue" are outdated and have no value in modern liberal America.

Taiwan actually has a rich cultural history of tattoos from the Atayal, China, and Japan, long before America. Aborigine people had intricate facial tattoos. The legend of Yue Fei speaks of his mother tattooing 精忠報國 (Utmost-Loyalty-Serve-Nation) on his back. Some also tattoo Buddhist scripture on their back for protection. Japanese influenced style is pretty self evident.








The human body can be a beautiful canvas for art. However for those who dislike the idea of permanence, I think Henna draws a good balance.

[Winston]

A summary assessment of Taiwan and the core attributes of Taiwanese people:

1) Taiwanese architecture and buildings are drab, dull and ugly. It is not magnificent, artistic and glorious like in Europe. This means the Taiwanese culture and soul have the same attributes, since architecture reflects a nation's collective culture and soul.

2) Taiwanese are very practical and narrow. They are not creative or imaginative. They do not invent, think or create new things. They are only good at memorizing and copying, as they are trained to do in school, which seems to be Asian nature. Thus if you live in the world of imagination and creativity, you will find Taiwan to be spiritually dead and sterile.

3) Taiwanese are polite, but many of them have angry grumpy faces as well. And their friendliness is very superficial. Most friendships in Taiwan are superficial, not meaningful, and more like acquaintances. So people drift apart easily. If you don't maintain contact with your acquaintances, they will forget you after a while and not respond to your texts, emails or calls, since their association with you was superficial to begin with. Now, I know that most people you meet, in any country, will only end up being acquaintances or nothing at all, but still, it is harder to have a true connection or meaningful friendship or relationship in Taiwan, then it is in other more genuine countries. If you are a deep person, you will feel alienated in Taiwan.

4) Taiwanese girls are very serious and uptight, which you can see on their faces. They do not laugh much or flirt. So don't expect much reaction from your jokes. Their body language is prudish too. They aren't as fun to be around as the girls in Europe, South America, Russia or even the Philippines. Taiwanese girls are also very politically correct, so you can't be open and honest with them or be yourself, otherwise they will judge you negatively. In fact, Taiwanese women will gladly admit that they are "not open minded and not open with people". You can ask them and see. They've told me that. They do not consider being open minded to be a good thing. So those who are open-minded will feel out of place in Taiwan.

5) Taiwan is socially cliquish and closed. Young people are not open with strangers, only older people and elderly people freely talk to strangers and are down to earth. Young people are more shy and closed. You have to already know someone to meet people in their circle. But even when you meet people, it's mostly superficial and doesn't go anywhere.

6) Taiwanese are hard to connect with. They are very repressed, reserved, inhibited, small minded and insular. They are not open minded or broad minded or free spirited. They do not love truth or philosophy, nor do they use critical thinking. They only follow whatever authority tells them or whatever is popular. They are also big on political correctness like Americans are. If you are too honest or truthful, Taiwanese will find you too offensive and weird.

7) Taiwanese are super repressed, reserved, small minded, narrow, petty and judgmental. Especially the women. If you don't follow all the petty little social rules and are not a narrow conformist, then you are seen as abnormal and freakish and ostracized and disliked. The women especially habitually find reasons to dislike and condemn others. It's definitely not a place you can be yourself. Despite claiming political freedoms, there is no social freedom. What kind of "freedom" is it when a country claims political freedoms, yet requires you to conform to lots of little petty vain social rules? It's hypocrisy and mind control, just like in America. You can say you are free, but you cannot ACT like you are free. No way.

8) There is no genuine social connection with others in Taiwan. It's a very lonely country. People are polite, but cold and distant, kind of like in Seattle. And social interaction is fake and superficial, not authentic. But you are not allowed to criticize all this or point it out either, or else you are a freak and weirdo and loser and will be ostracized and disliked. Go figure.

In conclusion, what all this means is that if you like having a safe but boring life (and Taiwan is one of the safest countries in the world indeed) then Taiwan may be for you. But if you like having fun and are very open minded, and live in a world of imagination and creativity, you will find Taiwan to be very dull and repressed and spiritually dead, not alive at all. And you will find people hard to connect with too. Most Taiwanese, if not all, will admit that the above attributes about them are true, if you ask them, and will not contest it.

Note that much of the above applies to mainland China as well, but not to the extreme that it does in Taiwan. I find mainland Chinese to be more sociable, open and enthusiastic toward me, even if their country has less political freedoms. Plus mainland China is far more diverse and has 56 subcultures and regions with more variety, whereas Taiwan is more insular and homogenous.