Globetrotter, dano, are Chinese women like these attainable?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.
FuzzX
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Post by FuzzX »

I'm just curious here winston but what's wrong with just banging your wife?
Rock
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Post by Rock »

Winston wrote:
Yet there are many guys who argue that Taiwanese girls are friendly and easy to meet. It's like the Twilight Zone. Seeing a friendly Taiwanese girl with an open exterior that is not inhibited would to me be like seeing a UFO or Bigfoot. A huge anomaly.

Even some Asian Americans argue that Taiwanese girls are friendly and that they met some and were approached by them even. So it's not always a matter of whether you are white or asian.

Oddly, one local Taiwanese guy I met in a hostel told me that when he was in China, he did not notice that the girls were more friendly than they were in Taiwan.
Winston. My experience as an early 30s white guy was that meeting attractive girls in Taipei was easier than the places I went in China. Taiwan is still a much richer country than China overall. But it is small and has a unique history of cooperation with America and has struggled with its quasi country status. China's history is much different. Older generation were completely brainwashed under Mao and younger generation is nationalistic and very proud of their up and coming super power (21st Century is the Chinese Century). So even though my relative wealth goes up in most parts of China vis-a-vis Taiwan, my western look is a bigger factor against me there too. Of course, there are plenty of exceptions and I did meet some Chinese girls who were actually into westerners or even black guys.

Taipei is a very open and educated place. People here are very exposed to the west, especially the US. They know our music and pop culture quite well and watch western movies in the native language with Chinese subtitles (no Chinese dubbing). A substantial percentage pursue graduate studies at US universities.

It takes some trial and error practice to learn how to approach strangers here effectively. Blocking their path and trying to talk to them like that Japanese video posted on your site earlier today won't do well. Many people handing out fliers and taking surveys do this and people just automatically reject them. But we have 24 hour bookstores, movie/club complexes, and lots of safe public areas. If you walk with a girl and ask some innocent question, they will often engage you. Then you can smile and slowly reveal your 'making friends' intentions. Many will gauge you and then decide whether or not they are interested based on their first impressions. The wrong approach or vibes can easily scare them or creep them out.

Success at drumming-up interest depends a lot on the guy, his opening approach, etc. and how well he reads the girl. Girls who walk slowly in a relaxed manner are much better than girls who are walking fast. Smile, stand back, appear innocent and sincere but not too worried or serious. Speaking Mandarin usually helps a lot, at least for a white guy.

But you're not a white guy. Your an ABC. Certain ABC types do extremely well here too. They tend to be very preppy or connected to a lot of the right locals. But perhaps your experience would be very different from that of the white guy. I've heard ABCs are a hot commodity in China and generally do much better than westerners there. My impression is a larger percentage of people there are racist than in Taiwan. As an ABC, they can accept you as one of their own. Girls who would reject me would consider you. Different guy - different results. Perhaps Taiwan wins for me, China for you. China hands with many years of experience there can give you more specifics on what's possible for you there.

Finally, I don't think it helps being stuck in Chia-yi. Taipei seems to offer a lot more venues, times, and opportunities for meeting strangers in an anonymous way.
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Post by Winston »

FuzzX wrote:I'm just curious here winston but what's wrong with just banging your wife?
I already answered that question in detail before.

First, I don't have a wife. Just a girlfriend.

Second, what's wrong with eating the exact same dish everyday? What if you ate pepperoni pizza everyday? After three days you'd get sick of it right? The novelty wears off and you crave something else for variety.

For a long explanation with examples, see here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Why_Men_Cheat.htm
Last edited by Winston on May 16th, 2010, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Winston »

Rock wrote: Winston. My experience as an early 30s white guy was that meeting attractive girls in Taipei was easier than the places I went in China. Taiwan is still a much richer country than China overall. But it is small and has a unique history of cooperation with America and has struggled with its quasi country status. China's history is much different. Older generation were completely brainwashed under Mao and younger generation is nationalistic and very proud of their up and coming super power (21st Century is the Chinese Century). So even though my relative wealth goes up in most parts of China vis-a-vis Taiwan, my western look is a bigger factor against me there too. Of course, there are plenty of exceptions and I did meet some Chinese girls who were actually into westerners or even black guys.

Taipei is a very open and educated place. People here are very exposed to the west, especially the US. They know our music and pop culture quite well and watch western movies in the native language with Chinese subtitles (no Chinese dubbing). A substantial percentage pursue graduate studies at US universities.

It takes some trial and error practice to learn how to approach strangers here effectively. Blocking their path and trying to talk to them like that Japanese video posted on your site earlier today won't do well. Many people handing out fliers and taking surveys do this and people just automatically reject them. But we have 24 hour bookstores, movie/club complexes, and lots of safe public areas. If you walk with a girl and ask some innocent question, they will often engage you. Then you can smile and slowly reveal your 'making friends' intentions. Many will gauge you and then decide whether or not they are interested based on their first impressions. The wrong approach or vibes can easily scare them or creep them out.

Success at drumming-up interest depends a lot on the guy, his opening approach, etc. and how well he reads the girl. Girls who walk slowly in a relaxed manner are much better than girls who are walking fast. Smile, stand back, appear innocent and sincere but not too worried or serious. Speaking Mandarin usually helps a lot, at least for a white guy.

But you're not a white guy. Your an ABC. Certain ABC types do extremely well here too. They tend to be very preppy or connected to a lot of the right locals. But perhaps your experience would be very different from that of the white guy. I've heard ABCs are a hot commodity in China and generally do much better than westerners there. My impression is a larger percentage of people there are racist than in Taiwan. As an ABC, they can accept you as one of their own. Girls who would reject me would consider you. Different guy - different results. Perhaps Taiwan wins for me, China for you. China hands with many years of experience there can give you more specifics on what's possible for you there.

Finally, I don't think it helps being stuck in Chia-yi. Taipei seems to offer a lot more venues, times, and opportunities for meeting strangers in an anonymous way.
Perhaps, but despite all the factors and strategies, the bottom line is that it simply does NOT FEEL comfortable approaching women in Taiwan. In fact it feels very INAPPROPRIATE and I know it is not my imagination.

Yes Taipei has more opportunities to meet people. But it has the same vibe in terms of closed exteriors, lack of eye contact, smiles, etc. People tend to be in a rush to get somewhere like in a Western big city, and girls do not smile or make eye contact.

Yeah I can stop girls occasionally to ask directions and try to work up a conversation, it's possible, but it still feels like it's AGAINST the flow and not a normal thing.

It's all about the feel. If you don't have the feel of the wave, you're not going to do that well. It's true in sports too. If you don't have a good feel of the ball in the game, you can't play well.

And that's the deeper problem.

One thing is for sure. You certainly can't approach girls in Taiwan like in Russia. That I'd bet a million dollars on.

I have Taiwanese relatives in Taipei and they do not say that Taipei girls are more open and approachable. They all say that to meet girls you have to be introduced by mutual friends, or join an organization, class, or activity. (which there aren't that many of anyway since everyone is so busy working). Only foreigners and some abc's claim that Taiwanese girls are approachable and easy to chat up. Local Taiwanese guys do not usually say that at all.

Yeah the girls in Taipei may be more knowledgeable about pop culture. But that doesn't make them more open in terms of an exterior of openness, smiling, making eye contact, etc. No way. Even user name gits on this forum made a video of Taipei and in his video, you can see that no one is making eye contact with anyone. It's not normal to do so. Gits admits this too, yet he claims he can approach girls in Taiwan the same way I do in Russia. Go figure.

Bottom line is that Taiwan does not have the kind of social energy that exists in Europe that makes you feel like meeting girls is part of the flow. Definitely not. That kind of social energy isn't there. Not even in Taipei.

Someday I will upload my videos of Krakow Poland and you will see what I mean. There was definitely a social energy there where chatting up a girl was like riding WITH the waves, not against it.

That kind of energy is simply absent in Taiwan or Japan, regardless of what anyone claims. And that's why in a lot of ways Taiwan feels like the US, with a similar "mind your own business, keep to yourself" vibe.

As for me, my style is that I have to connect people on their exterior before I can connect with them on their interior. With the cold strict Taiwanese exterior, my exterior cannot connect since I need a warm exterior from them before connecting with the interior. It's hard to explain in words what I mean. Basically, even if a girl has a warm interior, it's hard to even talk to her if she has a cold exterior. It's very weird.

It's very frustrating though being in a country where it feels strongly illegal and inappropriate to approach a girl you like. It's also infuriating and a huge let down. There are many hot girls in Taiwan with smooth delicate skin and feminine bodies and voices, that's for sure. That's what makes it worse.

I know one white guy who has lived here for ten years and speaks good Chinese. He lives in Taipei like you Rock, and works for a law firm. He even came to Angeles City for a while to start a bubble tea business, but his Filipina girlfriend and her family took advantage of him and forced him to quit his business and lose his investment. Anyway, he even admits to me that Taiwanese girls in Taipei do not like talking to strangers and that you have to join a group event or activity to meet them usually.

This guy works in a law firm too, and it decent looking. But he is a serious type and does not seem to be a PUA guy or cold approacher type at all. Very few western guys have the guts to cold approach a woman usually, even in Taiwan. But the thing is, he is white and he does not claim that Taiwanese girls are easy to meet by cold approaches. So not all white guys make this claim. Only some do.
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Post by dano »

Winston wrote:Check out these Chinese women that are my type!

This tall hot one says she is a flight attendant. Why would a flight attendant be using A Foreign Affair?

http://www.loveme.com/women/info104565.htm

And check out this one. I can't believe her profile says she's 45. Have you ever seen a 45 year old woman look this good? No way!

http://www.loveme.com/invar/services/wo ... ame=6_SuLi
Chinese women are more beautiful than russians in my opinion, many guys would disagree with me. I saw more beautiful women in china than I did in eastern europe. They should be good looking, the shit they eat would make a goat puke.

Chinese guys are not easily impressed by the women in there country however. In order to be a hooker in china the woman has to be a 9 or 10 to qualify. They won't take just any woman, she's got to be smokin hot to be a working girl.
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Post by Rock »

Winston wrote:
Perhaps, but despite all the factors and strategies, the bottom line is that it simply does NOT FEEL comfortable approaching women in Taiwan. In fact it feels very INAPPROPRIATE and I know it is not my imagination.

Yes Taipei has more opportunities to meet people. But it has the same vibe in terms of closed exteriors, lack of eye contact, smiles, etc. People tend to be in a rush to get somewhere like in a Western big city, and girls do not smile or make eye contact.

Yeah I can stop girls occasionally to ask directions and try to work up a conversation, it's possible, but it still feels like it's AGAINST the flow and not a normal thing.

It's all about the feel. If you don't have the feel of the wave, you're not going to do that well. It's true in sports too. If you don't have a good feel of the ball in the game, you can't play well.

And that's the deeper problem.

One thing is for sure. You certainly can't approach girls in Taiwan like in Russia. That I'd bet a million dollars on.

I have Taiwanese relatives in Taipei and they do not say that Taipei girls are more open and approachable. They all say that to meet girls you have to be introduced by mutual friends, or join an organization, class, or activity. (which there aren't that many of anyway since everyone is so busy working). Only foreigners and some abc's claim that Taiwanese girls are approachable and easy to chat up. Local Taiwanese guys do not usually say that at all.

Yeah the girls in Taipei may be more knowledgeable about pop culture. But that doesn't make them more open in terms of an exterior of openness, smiling, making eye contact, etc. No way. Even user name gits on this forum made a video of Taipei and in his video, you can see that no one is making eye contact with anyone. It's not normal to do so. Gits admits this too, yet he claims he can approach girls in Taiwan the same way I do in Russia. Go figure.

Bottom line is that Taiwan does not have the kind of social energy that exists in Europe that makes you feel like meeting girls is part of the flow. Definitely not. That kind of social energy isn't there. Not even in Taipei.

Someday I will upload my videos of Krakow Poland and you will see what I mean. There was definitely a social energy there where chatting up a girl was like riding WITH the waves, not against it.

That kind of energy is simply absent in Taiwan or Japan, regardless of what anyone claims. And that's why in a lot of ways Taiwan feels like the US, with a similar "mind your own business, keep to yourself" vibe.

As for me, my style is that I have to connect people on their exterior before I can connect with them on their interior. With the cold strict Taiwanese exterior, my exterior cannot connect since I need a warm exterior from them before connecting with the interior. It's hard to explain in words what I mean. Basically, even if a girl has a warm interior, it's hard to even talk to her if she has a cold exterior. It's very weird.

It's very frustrating though being in a country where it feels strongly illegal and inappropriate to approach a girl you like. It's also infuriating and a huge let down. There are many hot girls in Taiwan with smooth delicate skin and feminine bodies and voices, that's for sure. That's what makes it worse.

I know one white guy who has lived here for ten years and speaks good Chinese. He lives in Taipei like you Rock, and works for a law firm. He even came to Angeles City for a while to start a bubble tea business, but his Filipina girlfriend and her family took advantage of him and forced him to quit his business and lose his investment. Anyway, he even admits to me that Taiwanese girls in Taipei do not like talking to strangers and that you have to join a group event or activity to meet them usually.

This guy works in a law firm too, and it decent looking. But he is a serious type and does not seem to be a PUA guy or cold approacher type at all. Very few western guys have the guts to cold approach a woman usually, even in Taiwan. But the thing is, he is white and he does not claim that Taiwanese girls are easy to meet by cold approaches. So not all white guys make this claim. Only some do.
I will address most of your points above later in another post. For now, have a look at the edited version of this approach video (target happens to be a FOB Taiwanese in San Francisco) and see what you think of the vibes she's sending off to this guy.

http://www.artofattraction.com/training ... ml#content

Some Taiwanese gals warm-up with a bit of conversation. Some stay cool but still provide you with their digits. And of course many have boyfriends. In all these cases, you may get a chance with them. Its often hard to predict what will follow. Tailored quality approaches increase your odds a lot. You probably won't get very far if you don't put yourself out there.

According to my own experience:

1. Taiwan girls are easier to engage on their own turf (in Taipei) than when in other countries.

2. Girls in some cities express much more of that 'warm and open' vibe towards me which is generally absent in Taipei, similar to what you experienced in Russia. A couple of examples are Rio, Brazil and Nairobi, Kenya. But, there are BIG catches:

a. The initial friendliness and phone numbers I received from upper middle class or hi-so Rio girls almost never lead to intimacy.

b. With Nairobi girls and Rio girls from the middle class and below, the chances for eventual (if not immediate) intimacy were good. But, I believe my perceived wealth was generally a major motivating factor with these poorer women.

c. If your goal is mainly to get lots of smiles and/or a completely relaxed and open, welcome to chat me up vibe from loads of local cuties, than perhaps Russia, Colombia, Brazil, Kenya, or Ghana are good countries to visit not to mention the Philippines.

d. But if you want to maximize intimate encounters with attractive girls who are generally in your own economic class and usually not motivated by money, Taiwan can become a goldmine for some. Like all good things, it takes a lot work and a learning curve. But it ain't the States, not by a long-shot. Your work can pay-off handsomely here. Egg shells are not that hard to crack. Important: You gotta get out of your comfort zone and unlearn the BS your small circle of family and friends taught you about Taiwan.

e. Caveat: I have much more experience and better language skills in Taiwan than Latin America. Some Lat Am or other countries might ultimately be better for gringos who put in the work and develop solid language and game skills.
Last edited by Rock on May 16th, 2010, 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
globetrotter
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Post by globetrotter »

Winston wrote:Is $130 for a three month visa the cheapest you can get? What about for one month? I was told that China visas are cheap? That's kinda expensive. Maybe it's cheaper if you use a Taiwan passport? Is that through the embassy or a travel agent?
The USA has become an asshole during the past 10 years. The security hassles, airport bullshit, TSA and now visa nonsense and tit-for-tat visa fees.

So when the USA charges Brasilians and Chinese $140 for a visa, they think:

"OK, f**k it! We will charge YOU the same price!"

...and they do.

That is the price of a China visa for USA passport holders.

$110 for tourist, $130 for business/work visa. Extra for 1, 2 or 3 day service.

Other countries? $30.

If you use your Taiwan passport you will get all sorts of attention on your visit. When you travel on the train the conductor checks for you specifically.

Your choice. Pay the money or be hassled and followed.
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Post by globetrotter »

Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote: They are very approachable and make eye contact and smile. It is trivially easy to approach and chat them up.

Gots to know the Mandarin, tho.
Are you sure? Do all people agree on that?
Winston I cannot provide that level of certitude. Get on a plane and come here and see.

I can only tell you what I see every day. As I walk down the street, conduct business, ride my motorbike and people, girls, young women say hello all the time. Moms with babies point out the Laowai and I wave and say Ni Hao. It is trivially easy for me to approach and talk with any women or girl I see, the issue is that I don't know Mandarin well enough and China has a new dialect every 15 km. I have tried to pick up a woman and motion for her to follow me and I simply don't speak the language well enough to communicate.
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Post by Winston »

globetrotter wrote:
Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote: They are very approachable and make eye contact and smile. It is trivially easy to approach and chat them up.

Gots to know the Mandarin, tho.
Are you sure? Do all people agree on that?
Winston I cannot provide that level of certitude. Get on a plane and come here and see.

I can only tell you what I see every day. As I walk down the street, conduct business, ride my motorbike and people, girls, young women say hello all the time. Moms with babies point out the Laowai and I wave and say Ni Hao. It is trivially easy for me to approach and talk with any women or girl I see, the issue is that I don't know Mandarin well enough and China has a new dialect every 15 km. I have tried to pick up a woman and motion for her to follow me and I simply don't speak the language well enough to communicate.
Well how about this then. Are they only making eye contact and smiling with white people? What about with other Asians too? Have you asked other Asian foreigners or tourists there?

What about in Shanghai or Beijing? Do people smile and make eye contact there too?
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Post by momopi »

Winston wrote:Is $130 for a three month visa the cheapest you can get? What about for one month? I was told that China visas are cheap? That's kinda expensive. Maybe it's cheaper if you use a Taiwan passport? Is that through the embassy or a travel agent?
For US citizens, it doesn't matter if you're applying for single entry or multi-entry, it's $130 flat fee. My China VISA is $130, 1 year multiple entry, up to 60 days per visit (can be extened to 90?).

If you have residecy (huko) in Taiwan, you might be able to get the Taiwan Compatriot Entry Permit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Com ... try_Permit

It's cheaper and better, but more complicated (ask your parents for assistance). Also, with 台胞證 you can apply to buy property (leasehold) and do a lot of stuff that US passport holder cannot do as easily.
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Post by Winston »

globetrotter wrote:
Winston wrote:Is $130 for a three month visa the cheapest you can get? What about for one month? I was told that China visas are cheap? That's kinda expensive. Maybe it's cheaper if you use a Taiwan passport? Is that through the embassy or a travel agent?
The USA has become an asshole during the past 10 years. The security hassles, airport bullshit, TSA and now visa nonsense and tit-for-tat visa fees.

So when the USA charges Brasilians and Chinese $140 for a visa, they think:

"OK, f**k it! We will charge YOU the same price!"

...and they do.

That is the price of a China visa for USA passport holders.

$110 for tourist, $130 for business/work visa. Extra for 1, 2 or 3 day service.

Other countries? $30.

If you use your Taiwan passport you will get all sorts of attention on your visit. When you travel on the train the conductor checks for you specifically.

Your choice. Pay the money or be hassled and followed.
Why would a Taiwanese passport holder be followed? TWese are very peaceful and not involved in crime.

So I need to use a passport even for a train? What if I just used a Taiwan passport to get in, and then use an American passport on the train?
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Post by Winston »

momopi wrote:
Winston wrote:Is $130 for a three month visa the cheapest you can get? What about for one month? I was told that China visas are cheap? That's kinda expensive. Maybe it's cheaper if you use a Taiwan passport? Is that through the embassy or a travel agent?
For US citizens, it doesn't matter if you're applying for single entry or multi-entry, it's $130 flat fee. My China VISA is $130, 1 year multiple entry, up to 60 days per visit (can be extened to 90?).

If you have residecy (huko) in Taiwan, you might be able to get the Taiwan Compatriot Entry Permit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Com ... try_Permit

It's cheaper and better, but more complicated (ask your parents for assistance). Also, with 台胞證 you can apply to buy property (leasehold) and do a lot of stuff that US passport holder cannot do as easily.
You mean it's $130 for a one year visa? But globetrotter said it was only for three months?

One year is not too bad, if it's multiple entry.

So you use a US passport too? Do you have a Taiwan one?

Are there soldiers everywhere in China, like martial law, like they show on the news?
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Post by momopi »

Winston wrote: You mean it's $130 for a one year visa? But globetrotter said it was only for three months?

One year is not too bad, if it's multiple entry.

So you use a US passport too? Do you have a Taiwan one?

On the China embassy web site, they list 12 and 24 month multiple entry VISA:
http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84246.htm
http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84247.htm

BUT, the VISA application form only has 12 month multiple entry for $130 @_@
http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84240.htm

My company paid $130 for my 12-month multiple entry VISA. It takes up a whole page in your passport, and they don't replace the old one (it takes a new page). Very annoying. I'll have to get more pages added to my passport (or a new one) soon.

Each visit is limited to 60 days without extension. I'm not sure what the 台胞證 limits are, but would assume it's less restrictive than US passport holders. Also, 台胞證 holders can visit/stay in Hong Kong for 7 days VISA-free, so Taiwan/ROC passport holders don't have to jump through another hoop to go to HK.

I have a Taiwan/ROC passport but it's expired. I do not have Taiwan residency (huko) and do not qualify for the national health insurance. If I opt to move back to Taiwan, I'd re-establish my residency there.

Winston wrote: Are there soldiers everywhere in China, like martial law, like they show on the news?
PLA and PAP combined doesn't have enough manpower for that level of internal deployement.
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Post by dano »

Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote:
Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote: They are very approachable and make eye contact and smile. It is trivially easy to approach and chat them up.

Gots to know the Mandarin, tho.
Are you sure? Do all people agree on that?
Winston I cannot provide that level of certitude. Get on a plane and come here and see.

I can only tell you what I see every day. As I walk down the street, conduct business, ride my motorbike and people, girls, young women say hello all the time. Moms with babies point out the Laowai and I wave and say Ni Hao. It is trivially easy for me to approach and talk with any women or girl I see, the issue is that I don't know Mandarin well enough and China has a new dialect every 15 km. I have tried to pick up a woman and motion for her to follow me and I simply don't speak the language well enough to communicate.
Well how about this then. Are they only making eye contact and smiling with white people? What about with other Asians too? Have you asked other Asian foreigners or tourists there?

What about in Shanghai or Beijing? Do people smile and make eye contact there too?
Chinese people that see laowai everyday are not overly friendly but they will stare at you. That said, chinese people seem to respond to random acts of kindness, if you go out your way to be nice they'll appreciate it. Finding a good woman to date is hard unless you can speak some mandarin.
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Post by globetrotter »

Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote:
Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote: They are very approachable and make eye contact and smile. It is trivially easy to approach and chat them up.

Gots to know the Mandarin, tho.
Are you sure? Do all people agree on that?
Winston I cannot provide that level of certitude. Get on a plane and come here and see.

I can only tell you what I see every day. As I walk down the street, conduct business, ride my motorbike and people, girls, young women say hello all the time. Moms with babies point out the Laowai and I wave and say Ni Hao. It is trivially easy for me to approach and talk with any women or girl I see, the issue is that I don't know Mandarin well enough and China has a new dialect every 15 km. I have tried to pick up a woman and motion for her to follow me and I simply don't speak the language well enough to communicate.
Well how about this then. Are they only making eye contact and smiling with white people? What about with other Asians too? Have you asked other Asian foreigners or tourists there?

What about in Shanghai or Beijing? Do people smile and make eye contact there too?
Winston I am the ONLY foreigner in my city. There are no other foreigners here, there are no Asian foreigners here.

This small city consists of only local Chinese who grew up here or live in a village within 15 km. When I go into the countryside it is the first time they have ever seen someone non-Chinese.

Ever. In their lives.
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