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China overtakes Japan as No.2 economy: FX chief

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby Rock » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:47 am

momopi wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_ ... e_by_state

Consider, the median household income in New Jersey is $70,000 in 2008, versus $38,000 in West Virginia.


Even on small island states like Taiwan, the income level varies a lot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei#Economy

Despite the Asian financial crisis, the economy continues to expand at about 5% per year, with virtually full employment and low inflation. As of 2007[update], the nominal GDP of the core city of Taipei has accrued to an amount of nearly US$160 billion, while the metro region of Taipei has a GDP (nominal) of around US$260 billion, a record that would rank it 13th among world cities by GDP. The GDP per capita of Taipei is US$48,400, and the second highest in Asia behind Tokyo, which has a GDP per capita of US$65,453.[45] If outskirts, neighboring cities, and townships are taken into account, the GDP per capita would fall to US$25,000.[45]


Just an opinion, I don't think we should read too much into the national GDP per capita numbers.


Some of these figures from Wikipedia which references various sources (covering last few years of this decade) don't seem internally consistent and in some cases, way out of line with what I would expect. For example:

GDP per capita of Tampa listed at $45,500 vs $75,300 for Miami => Not in line with what I would expect.

GDP per capita of London listed at $72,200 vs $157,000 for NYC => Not in line with what I would expect.

GDP per capita of Taipei listed at $61,500 vs. $29,000 for Seoul, $37,200 for Singapore, and $41,700 for Hong Kong => Not in line with what I would expect


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

In another link, per capita income is listed at just $15,128 for Miami vs. $21,953 for Tampa and $37,780 for Florida. If you've ever driven around Miami, this figure would seem much more in line with reality than the first one above. A large swath feels like Haiti and another big section looks like Havana without the 50s and 60s era autos. Richer areas are in separate jurisdictions incorporated with their own names.

Does anyone really believe that Miami (not including Miami Beach, Biscayne Bay, or other outlying areas) has a higher per capita income than London? Something's not right with at least some of those figures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_lo ... ita_income

So you got once source listing Miami's GDP per capita at $75,300 and another listing its per capita income at just $15,128 => Very inconsistent if I'm not missing something.
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Postby momopi » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:38 pm

The GDP per capita figures for Taipei were from 2009 publication by 台灣經濟研究院 (http://www.tier.org.tw/), reported on 工商時報.
This is what they said:

 台北市是台灣的重要樞紐,但台北市的城市人均GDP究竟為多少,過去限於人力與資料限制,極少有人研究,台灣經濟研究院
的研究報告昨日出爐,估算出台北市的人均GDP為48,400美元,是全台灣16,111美元的3倍。與亞洲各城市相比,僅次於東京
65,453美元,比香港、新加坡、首爾還要高。

 此研究是由台經院研二所副所長張建一主持。張建一解釋,主要是因台北市戶籍人口數較少,因此才會有這麼高的數字,但台
北市產值,乃匯集台北縣市、基隆市、桃園縣等就業人口,因此若將大台北地區列入,人均GDP達25,000美元。


The $48,400 GDP per capita figure is applicable to the Taipei 直轄市 with ~2.6 million people, the GDP per capita is 3x national average.
The reason for this is because many people go to work in Taipei, contributing to its economic output, but doesn't actually live in Taipei.
If you include the greater Taipei area, the GDP per capita (averaged) is only $25,000.


In contrast, China's 中國社科院 (http://www.cass.net.cn/) did a global city ranking study in 2008. This study ranked Taipei at 9th place
in Asia, with GDP per capita of $14,000. Kaoshiung was ranked at $10,000, and Hsinchu ranked at $11,000:

中國社科院也曾研究全球城市競爭力報告,2006年的版本,台北排名110個評比城市中,排名第48名,為亞太第5名;2008年的版本,則在500個城市中,
排名第112名,為亞太第9名,其中,台北市的人均GDP為14,000美元左右、高雄市則為10,000美元、新竹市則為 11,000美元。


China has this thing about "surpassing Taiwan". :lol:

There are so many different stats and indexes that you can look at with conflicting figures, including the Big Mac Index and
Tall Latte Index. But not everyone eats Big Mac and drink Starbucks, so going back to what I said earlier, it's probably not
worth the effort to read too much into the numbers.
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Postby Rock » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:53 pm

momopi wrote:The GDP per capita figures for Taipei were from 2009 publication by 台灣經濟研究院 (http://www.tier.org.tw/), reported on 工商時報.
This is what they said:

 台北市是台灣的重要樞紐,但台北市的城市人均GDP究竟為多少,過去限於人力與資料限制,極少有人研究,台灣經濟研究院
的研究報告昨日出爐,估算出台北市的人均GDP為48,400美元,是全台灣16,111美元的3倍。與亞洲各城市相比,僅次於東京
65,453美元,比香港、新加坡、首爾還要高。

 此研究是由台經院研二所副所長張建一主持。張建一解釋,主要是因台北市戶籍人口數較少,因此才會有這麼高的數字,但台
北市產值,乃匯集台北縣市、基隆市、桃園縣等就業人口,因此若將大台北地區列入,人均GDP達25,000美元。


The $48,400 GDP per capita figure is applicable to the Taipei 直轄市 with ~2.6 million people, the GDP per capita is 3x national average.
The reason for this is because many people go to work in Taipei, contributing to its economic output, but doesn't actually live in Taipei.
If you include the greater Taipei area, the GDP per capita (averaged) is only $25,000.


In contrast, China's 中國社科院 (http://www.cass.net.cn/) did a global city ranking study in 2008. This study ranked Taipei at 9th place
in Asia, with GDP per capita of $14,000. Kaoshiung was ranked at $10,000, and Hsinchu ranked at $11,000:

中國社科院也曾研究全球城市競爭力報告,2006年的版本,台北排名110個評比城市中,排名第48名,為亞太第5名;2008年的版本,則在500個城市中,
排名第112名,為亞太第9名,其中,台北市的人均GDP為14,000美元左右、高雄市則為10,000美元、新竹市則為 11,000美元。


China has this thing about "surpassing Taiwan". :lol:

There are so many different stats and indexes that you can look at with conflicting figures, including the Big Mac Index and
Tall Latte Index. But not everyone eats Big Mac and drink Starbucks, so going back to what I said earlier, it's probably not
worth the effort to read too much into the numbers.


I think GDP per capita figures, both nominal and PPP adjusted, are of some use when applied broadly, say to a whole nation, as a starting point for judging where a country stands from a top-down point of view. Once you've made initial groupings, then you can attempt bottom-up adjustments to account for the structure of an economy - say when comparing oil rich Norway to industry driven Sweden - and other factors such as the distribution of wealth, employment situation, etc. Of course, if you want to account for cost of living, the most popular adjustment is the PPP, which again is useful in my view, if applied broadly, but far from perfect.

When you apply these measure to cities or sub-regions, they are much easier to fudge depending on the bias of those controlling the bean counters and data collators involved in the study. A big portion of the economic output in say Manhattan, is produced by non-residents. Different studies may account for that situation in different ways. At a national level, there's much less room for subjectivity I believe.

Big Mac, Tall Latte, and other similar indexes are useful for comparing Big Macs, Tall Lattes, and other similar products but not much else. In my view, they are just micro types of indicators which are dictated by strategy of their respective corporations. That in turn is driven by demand, competition, rents, tariffs, licensing requirements, and a host of other micro factors. Why is a Big Mac much cheaper in Hong Kong than say Ireland, Spain, or Greece? Beats me.
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Postby globetrotter » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:11 am

The Big Mac Index:

I don't eat burgers here. Too fattening, too big, yuck. It's the same food - McD's quality control is perfect. A Big Mac in China tastes like one in Chicago - but with homemade noodles everywhere and fresh noodle soups every 25 feet, why eat a burger?

As for the price, it's about 25 CNY or 3.78 for a meal at a fast food place in China. Sometimes as much as 40 CNY. This is a very expensive meal, on par with eating at a nice restaurant with prices of 22 to 88 CNY per dish. This is why people dress up to eat at fast food restaurants in Asia. Most restaurants charge 6 to 12 CNY for a meal, and street stalls are 2 CNY to 8 CNY.

Once again, it does not reflect the true cost of living and standard of living. You need to get boots on the ground.
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Postby momopi » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:58 am

I seem to recall back in 2007, the KCF by Wangfujin in Beijing did not serve US style combo meals, it was mostly individual order items and bucket chickens. I wondered at the time if it's because combo meals set the base price too high. But there were quite a few fat people eating buckets of chicken there.

I liked the fried chicken at A&W in KL Malaysia, served with the local sweet and spicy sauce. ;p~~~

If someone wants to use western fast food index in China, it's better to use KFC because they're much more popular than McD's. In PH Jollibee is much more popular than McD's, and they serve fried chicken with rice and gravy. IMO Asians simply don't like Big Mac's that much. Personally, I prefer In and Out & Chick-fil-A over McD's. But I do order the fish sandwich at McD's.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkinthe ... _world.php

Now if someone would do a "fried chicken index" to compare cost of a drumstick...
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Postby Rock » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:25 am

momopi wrote:I seem to recall back in 2007, the KCF by Wangfujin in Beijing did not serve US style combo meals, it was mostly individual order items and bucket chickens. I wondered at the time if it's because combo meals set the base price too high. But there were quite a few fat people eating buckets of chicken there.

I liked the fried chicken at A&W in KL Malaysia, served with the local sweet and spicy sauce. ;p~~~

If someone wants to use western fast food index in China, it's better to use KFC because they're much more popular than McD's. In PH Jollibee is much more popular than McD's, and they serve fried chicken with rice and gravy. IMO Asians simply don't like Big Mac's that much. Personally, I prefer In and Out & Chick-fil-A over McD's. But I do order the fish sandwich at McD's.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkinthe ... _world.php

Now if someone would do a "fried chicken index" to compare cost of a drumstick...


Nothing, IMO, comes even close to In-N-Out Burger fast food wise. Something very special about the food and concept. Its always a priority on my 'to-do list' whenever I go through LA area. I once had a several hour layover at LAX, passed over internal restaurants, took airport shuttle to nearby Radisson and trekked from there all the way to the nearest In-N-Out (a fairly long walk). Too bad they haven't expanded beyond the SW states.

A lot of states have Five Guys Burgers and Fries which is also special for fast food. But to me, its just another fast food joint. In-N-Out is in a class of its own.
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Postby Repatriate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:47 am

momopi wrote:If someone wants to use western fast food index in China, it's better to use KFC because they're much more popular than McD's. In PH Jollibee is much more popular than McD's, and they serve fried chicken with rice and gravy. IMO Asians simply don't like Big Mac's that much. Personally, I prefer In and Out & Chick-fil-A over McD's. But I do order the fish sandwich at McD's.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkinthe ... _world.php

Now if someone would do a "fried chicken index" to compare cost of a drumstick...

I made an interesting discovery that McD's actually has the best fried chicken in Thailand. It's actually pretty good and they don't dip it in salt like it seems like they do in KFC. I notice that in Asia fast food outlets almost always have to offer some kind of default fried chicken/fish burger option to appeal to the locals. Burgers are just not very popular.

The Japanese chain MOS burger is in Thailand as well and I try to eat their food whenever possible. It has much better burgers and fries than any of the usual fast food chains.

oh, I agree with you guys about In N' Out. I used to live less than a mile away from one and ate there all the time. I'm not a big fan of their fries though..
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Postby momopi » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:08 pm

I've been eating at In and Out since 1982. My cheeseburger or double double will always be ordered with grilled onions, and fries animal style. ;p These guys are old school, no microwaves or heat lamps. Fries are freshly cut and fried in 100% veggie oil only -- no beef tallow or artificial flavoring. As of Jan 2010 I think the new CEO is the family's 28 year old granddaughter, only 4 years older than her Uncle when he inherited the job in 1970s. The family has been able to maintain their strict quality control because everything comes out of their Burbank facility. If they had allowed franchise in far-away places. I'm not sure if the quality could've been maintained.

When I'm in TW, I go to MOS Burger and order one of their rice burgers (hard to get in the US!). Sometimes I go there for a quick breakfast, but am not overly impressed with the breakfast "half sandwich" selections. It's a bit mediocre like the canelé in TW's Starbucks. MOS Burger's fried chicken is pretty tasty though. I have yet to successfully replicate their rice burger at home.

IMO KFC in Asia tastes better than the KFC in US. THE KFC near by work in Lake Forest is disgusting. If I wanted chicken, I'd rather cook some with my stove top smoker at home and bring it to work, or go to El Pollo Loco. If I wanted to get fried chicken from a fast food place, I'd drive the extra distance to Anaheim and get Popey's spicy fried Chicken and gravy. Or, just go to Chick-Fil-A and get a chicken sandwich.

We also have about couple dozen Jollibee's and 40-50 Red Ribbon's here in California. Typically the quality of Jolibee is good at grand opening, then slowly degrade over the years. Red Ribbon maintain their quality better and I still buy their mocha flavored sponge cake. We also have Goldilocks but I think their Halo Halo isn't that good anymore (I can make better ones at home).
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Postby globetrotter » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:02 am

I can't eat American Meat anymore. After living in Mexico, burgers and steaks don't taste right to me in the USA.

Now, making a special trip to Sonora for some beef tacos, that I can get excited about.
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