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Taiwan is Boring, Repressed, Loveless, etc.

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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To Repatriate and Swincor

Postby Winston » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:52 am

Repatriate, Swincor,

Guess what!? The other day, at a cheap buffet, I saw a hot tall and skinny Taiwanese girl with a chubby guy with sloppy hair and a retarded face! How can that be? He looked far less attractive than me even! You ever see that before? How do you explain that?

I think I've seen such couples several times. This wasn't the first. I would have liked to snap a picture of them to show you, but probably not appropriate.

This was at a cheap buffet too that costs only 120 NT per ticket, so I doubt that guy was rich.

So anyway, how do you explain that? I thought you said that "uncle types" repel girls here?

And Swincor, if he can get a hot TW girl, why can't I? How do you know whether things wouldn't change for me if I "broke into" or "plugged in" some clique or network here? Why are you so cynical about my chances, when guys less attractive than me can get chicks here?

To Repatriate:

Questions for you.

You said that once you "plug in" the rest is effortless. But isn't there an obvious fallacy in that? I mean that assumes that any clique you break into will have an ever flowing supply of single women you desire. That's not necessarily the case. If all the women in a clique are taken or not your type, you're still out of luck.

So why didn't you account for that? You made it out to sound like once you have friends, your potential for meeting girls will be ever flowing. Did you mean to say that?

One more thing. If Taiwan is a very open and sociable place, then how come the Taiwanese see America as more open, wild, extroverted and expressive than their own culture? Rock didn't have an answer for this one. Do you?

Thanks,
Winston
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Postby globetrotter » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:44 am

momopi wrote:
Rock wrote:2. When you go below the surface, I’m guessing many common Thai values would be an affront to Winston’s sensibilities. He would probably like it for awhile but eventually get disillusioned (just a guess though).


Knowing him, I'd think that's almost a certainty.

Hmf, sometimes I wonder if he could've been successful at being EMO when he was a lot younger.


Anyways, commenting on how women rate men, I found this article:
http://www.esquire.com/women/women-issu ... women-0510

34. What's the first thing you look at when you see a man?
His hair 14%
His clothes 15%
His shoes 2%
His eyes 49%
His Body 17%
His girlfriend 4%


Never pay attention to anything that any woman says, ever. In any country.
Look at what they DO.
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Postby momopi » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:45 pm

globetrotter wrote:Never pay attention to anything that any woman says, ever. In any country.
Look at what they DO.


Kudos! Excellent point!



Winston wrote:Guess what!? The other day, at a cheap buffet, I saw a hot tall and skinny Taiwanese girl with a chubby guy with sloppy hair and a retarded face! How can that be? He looked far less attractive than me even! You ever see that before? How do you explain that?
I think I've seen such couples several times. This wasn't the first. I would have liked to snap a picture of them to show you, but probably not appropriate.


Consider the fact that you've only seen this rarely. But if you really want to snap photos like that, hang out at department store basement restaurants/food courts in Taichung. If you're lucky you might spot 50+ year old uncle with 18 year old hottie flirting with him and feeding him by hand. Man, I was thinking "uncle! will you be my sifu!" and carolyne was probably cringing at the sight.
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Postby Winston » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:12 pm

Btw, my dad told me that on the Taiwan news, it said that 37 percent of young people in Taiwan can't find a date cause they work too much or don't have the time to meet people. And also that Taiwan now has the lowest birth rate in the world.

Why is that?

And how can that be, when intelligent people like Repatriate and Rock say that it's a very open and sociable culture?
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Postby Winston » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:16 pm

momopi wrote:Consider the fact that you've only seen this rarely. But if you really want to snap photos like that, hang out at department store basement restaurants/food courts in Taichung. If you're lucky you might spot 50+ year old uncle with 18 year old hottie flirting with him and feeding him by hand. Man, I was thinking "uncle! will you be my sifu!" and carolyne was probably cringing at the sight.


Huh? Sifu means martial arts teacher. What do you mean?

Also, didn't you tell me that if I took out a camera and took pictures of people in Taiwan, that someone might come and beat me up? lol

So what is your explanation? How do you find girls in Taiwan who don't care about age? Are there poor villages in Taiwan where the girls are open and willing to latch on to you?
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Postby Rock » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:53 pm

Winston wrote:
momopi wrote:Consider the fact that you've only seen this rarely. But if you really want to snap photos like that, hang out at department store basement restaurants/food courts in Taichung. If you're lucky you might spot 50+ year old uncle with 18 year old hottie flirting with him and feeding him by hand. Man, I was thinking "uncle! will you be my sifu!" and carolyne was probably cringing at the sight.


Huh? Sifu means martial arts teacher. What do you mean?

Also, didn't you tell me that if I took out a camera and took pictures of people in Taiwan, that someone might come and beat me up? lol

So what is your explanation? How do you find girls in Taiwan who don't care about age? Are there poor villages in Taiwan where the girls are open and willing to latch on to you?


Sifu or Shifu in Pinyin does not just apply to a master of martial arts. It can be used as a term of respect for a teacher or mentor in any one of a number of disciplines (including pick-up I suppose).

Anything is possible. But the very old guy with the young girl is not a very common sight, at least in the parts of Taipei that I frequent. However, I do see a fair number of visually mismatched couples of similar age (ugly/short/skinny guy with hot girl or handsome guy with ugly/dumpy girl).

It could be (just a speculation) that some uncles may pick-up gals from KTV or other P4P joints by spending big on them, at least in the early stages. As time passes, it’s not impossible for the girl to develop some feelings for the guy, perhaps as the sweet father figure who takes care of her and understands her needs.

The uncle could also be some sort of local big shot or influential type which might attract some girls (power attracts). Keep in mind that some rich guys esp. outside Taipei, may look poor (dirty or sloppy clothes/beatle nut stained teeth/hanging out in cheap places sometimes)

I don’t know for sure though.
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Postby Rock » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 pm

Winston wrote:Btw, my dad told me that on the Taiwan news, it said that 37 percent of young people in Taiwan can't find a date cause they work too much or don't have the time to meet people. And also that Taiwan now has the lowest birth rate in the world.

Why is that?
And how can that be when intelligent people like Repatriate and Rock say that it's a very open and sociable culture?


I focus on Taipei which I believe is different from where you spend the majority of your time when in Taiwan. If I go to the right areas in Taipei, I can see hundreds, perhaps even thousands of fashionable modern style young girls hanging around. If I go to office areas, I see hordes of attractive office ladies out and about every week-day during the lunch hour. College ares like Shi Da and Tai Da are full of cute students. Go out after 10 pm, esp. on the week-ends to Warner area or 24 hour Eslite Bookstore and you will see crowds of young women everywhere. Ximending has flocks of teenagers (many 18-19) and even a few who are available for the local oldsters who wanna pay them (so I hear). What do you see in Chiayi? And how much time you spend in the best areas instead of way out where your folks live?


And I don't remember saying that Taiwan has very open and sociable culture. And even if I did that was besides the point. My key theme has always been that some guys who can't get female attention in the States or Europe can score big in Taipei.

Final point Read Ladislavs recent submission about Russia. In one part, it says something to the effect that Russians are very grim and rarely smile. But your experience and perception was the opposite, que no? So you see, different people may get vastly different treatment and feelings about a given country. For you, Taiwan is social hell. For some others, its something else.
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Postby Winston » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:10 pm

Btw Momopi, most Taiwanese guys are not good looking at all. They are either average or nerdy looking. Most guys I see with hot girls in Taiwan aren't better looking than me. So it's not that rare.

The girl is hot and skinny, while the guy is very plain, nerdy or very average.
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Re: To Repatriate and Swincor

Postby Repatriate » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:15 pm

Winston wrote:Repatriate, Swincor,

Guess what!? The other day, at a cheap buffet, I saw a hot tall and skinny Taiwanese girl with a chubby guy with sloppy hair and a retarded face! How can that be? He looked far less attractive than me even! You ever see that before? How do you explain that?

So what? I've seen this before in the U.S. as well. Who knows what the situation is. They could have been childhood sweethearts, he could be filthy rich, or maybe they just have perfect personality compatibility, or they could be just close friends. Who knows? It happens occasionally. It's also not strange for super hot women to have a lot of guy "friends" who sort of just hang around and do things for her while she leads them on.

So anyway, how do you explain that? I thought you said that "uncle types" repel girls here?

The problem is Winston you take a couple exceptions (without knowing the details) and make grand standing sweeping assumptions. I've seen you do this more than once and it's almost always been hasty in your generalizations.

You said that once you "plug in" the rest is effortless. But isn't there an obvious fallacy in that? I mean that assumes that any clique you break into will have an ever flowing supply of single women you desire. That's not necessarily the case. If all the women in a clique are taken or not your type, you're still out of luck.

The thing is to make friends and socialize with people who have lots of friends in general and can introduce you to a wider network. This means avoiding getting together with a bunch of shut ins..

Everyone is usually part of some wider social network of people. If one doesn't work out you look elsewhere. You think those hot women just exist in their own secluded bubble?

So why didn't you account for that? You made it out to sound like once you have friends, your potential for meeting girls will be ever flowing. Did you mean to say that?

It certainly makes things easier and oftentimes more reliable in the long term than betting on spontaneity. People have already said cold approaching works in some situations but it depends a lot on initial attraction and the situation at hand.

One more thing. If Taiwan is a very open and sociable place, then how come the Taiwanese see America as more open, wild, extroverted and expressive than their own culture? Rock didn't have an answer for this one. Do you?

Thanks,
Winston


I never said it's a super open and sociable place. All Asian cultures are to some degree conservative in one aspect of their culture or another. Even ones that are sociable on the exterior can be cold when you get underneath that shell. Things are not always what they seem. I do think NE Asians are similar in some regards..in that if you make friends they tend to value it a bit more and it opens more doors due to guanxi.
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Postby Winston » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:22 pm

Rock wrote:
Winston wrote:Btw, my dad told me that on the Taiwan news, it said that 37 percent of young people in Taiwan can't find a date cause they work too much or don't have the time to meet people. And also that Taiwan now has the lowest birth rate in the world.

Why is that?
And how can that be when intelligent people like Repatriate and Rock say that it's a very open and sociable culture?


I focus on Taipei which I believe is different from where you spend the majority of your time when in Taiwan. If I go to the right areas in Taipei, I can see hundreds, perhaps even thousands of fashionable modern style young girls hanging around. If I go to office areas, I see hordes of attractive office ladies out and about every week-day during the lunch hour. College ares like Shi Da and Tai Da are full of cute students. Go out after 10 pm, esp. on the week-ends to Warner area or 24 hour Eslite Bookstore and you will see crowds of young women everywhere. Ximending has flocks of teenagers (many 18-19) and even a few who are available for the local oldsters who wanna pay them (so I hear). What do you see in Chiayi? And how much time you spend in the best areas instead of way out where your folks live?


And I don't remember saying that Taiwan has very open and sociable culture. And even if I did that was besides the point. My key theme has always been that some guys who can't get female attention in the States or Europe can score big in Taipei.

Final point Read Ladislavs recent submission about Russia. In one part, it says something to the effect that Russians are very grim and rarely smile. But your experience and perception was the opposite, que no? So you see, different people may get vastly different treatment and feelings about a given country. For you, Taiwan is social hell. For some others, its something else.


In 2004, I walked around Chiayi a lot. Same thing. Elderly people are easy to talk to. But not young people. In 1990 I worked in Taipei for a few months. Even though it was supposed to be friendlier than, it was still the same in that strangers did not talk to you or make eye contact, and the girls were too shy to just chat up. At work though, my workmates were very fun to talk to and mess with though. But that's cause there was some organized activity connecting us, which is basic in Taiwanese culture, like I said.

No way. You misunderstood Ladislav about Russia. He has said for many years the same as me, that Russians are very warm, passionate and inclusive. He is in full agreement with me on that, and has been for many years. See what he wrote to me here about why Russians are more friendly to me:

http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=8307

You will see that nowhere in that post does he say they are grim and cold. But he didn't get scammed there, and that is my only difference with him.

Probably you read something where he said that Russians don't smile for no reason like Americans do.

But either way, I got tons of proof on video that Russians are warm and open. Every guy that's been to Russia agrees that Russian women are very approachable, much more so than in America. That is a unanimous opinion, even among guys who got scammed there.

People who claim that Taiwan is open and sociable do not have such video proof. They just have their words for it. No one has used a hidden camera to cold approach TW girls unscripted and unrehearsed, and put it on YouTube.
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Postby Repatriate » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:32 pm

Rock wrote:1. That’s the good thing about you and Winston - break your ass, gain a decent level Thai fluency, and you can blend in quite well. You still have to put big effort into networking and socializing in the correct way but its quite doable. I guess we farang are always from another (inferior) planet even with fluent Thai as far as locals are concerned. But, some of the young and fashionable ones seem to be accepted. At night, around RCA Tower area or some of the Thai hotspots on the high sois of Suk, I usually see a smattering of these types of farang hanging out w groups Thais or Thai dates.

There's pluses and minuses. The pluses are that it would be extremely easy to integrate by learning the language to a level of fluency, gaining residency, and slowly assimilating in. Thais are pretty accepting of the idea of other asians being "Thai" by default if you speak Thai. It's rather interesting to see.

The minuses is that if you're ignorant of the Asian culture you're in and asian yourself you get judged pretty hard at times. It's a bit more difficult to play the "dumb foreigner" role in some situations because you are expected to know basic etiquette. THis doesn't bother me as much since i've been in Asia so long now but for some Asian-Americans they literally can't handle this.
2. When you go below the surface, I’m guessing many common Thai values would be an affront to Winston’s sensibilities. He would probably like it for awhile but eventually get disillusioned (just a guess though).

Middle and upper-middle class Thais can be just as conservative as NE Asians.
3. Chula instructor never showed himself in photos or revealed his name.
4. As for the ladies he pulled, he claimed much of it was discreet. He theorized that some of the gals were curious about him given his position and title (a large number were ex-students or their friends from other unis). He claimed his girlfriend was middle class and light skinned with a family who liked him.

It's not unheard of for younger english teachers (20 somethings) hooking up with students but someone in their 40s-50's? Yeah right. Plus he says he teaches in Chula which is the best University in Thailand and does that there? I really really doubt that. One thing i've learned about expats in Thailand is never believe anything said unless you have seen it yourself or can verify the story beforehand. Plus Thais tend to be gossip mongers. An aging farang with one of their students somewhere..word would spread like wildfire one way or another.

5. I have not noticed age gaps here either. Most couples seem to be of like aged partners. Do the older guys with money who keep young mia nois keep it all indoors?

The guys with serious money keep their women up in nice condos and come by to see them occasionally. Or they visit the massage parlors. The arrangement I mentioned before is pretty rare though as most Thai guys refuse to spend that much on one girl.
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Postby Winston » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:37 pm

Repatriate, but still, you made it sound like breaking into cliques was easy. It is not, esp in conservative countries. You don't just break into a clique by walking up to people and saying "Hey what's up? Nice weather we're having huh?"

And even if you make a friend or two, it doesn't mean they will introduce you to anyone, esp if they think that their friends are too shy to meet someone new.

I may make some hasty generalizations, but you make some bold assumptions here. Reality does not fit into formulas.

Also, in Taiwan, when someone says they will hook you up with someone, most of the time, they don't. They just say it for fun. You know that if you're Taiwanese. Come on now.

And like in America, many people flake too.

I still don't understand why Rock compared Taiwanese women to Russian women though. No guy who has been to both Russia and Taiwan would claim that they are the same in terms of openness to strangers. Not even close.

If they were even remotely similar, then how come my cousin's son said after watching Julia and Katya's antics in my videos, that "There is no way you could ever find girls in Taiwan that are that open and carefree. No way."

Again, how come no one can show me any "open girls in Taiwan" in person? NO ONE! But I can show you plenty of "open girls" in the Philippines in person. 100 percent guaranteed. And I have.

Why am I the only one willing to show proof of what I say? That's why many say that I'm credible. My friend Jeff, who recently talked to Steve Hoca, told Steve that me and his other friend are the ONLY guys he trusts and believes, cause we always tell it like it is.
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Postby Repatriate » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:39 pm

Winston wrote:Btw Momopi, most Taiwanese guys are not good looking at all. They are either average or nerdy looking. Most guys I see with hot girls in Taiwan aren't better looking than me. So it's not that rare.

The girl is hot and skinny, while the guy is very plain, nerdy or very average.

Yeah but I know TW often date based on occupation as well. The guys could all be potentially wealthy med students or engineers or something. Or the parents have known the guy's family for decades and he's alright in their books to be getting with the daughter. :lol:

Family hookups (arrangements) aren't all that unusual in TW as well. Couples do meet like that although they aren't arranged marriages strictly speaking.
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Postby Repatriate » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:46 pm

Winston wrote:Repatriate, but still, you made it sound like breaking into cliques was easy. It is not, esp in conservative countries. You don't just break into a clique by walking up to people and saying "Hey what's up? Nice weather we're having huh?"

And even if you make a friend or two, it doesn't mean they will introduce you to anyone, esp if they think that their friends are too shy to meet someone new.

Winston what can I say? This depends 100% on social skills. It's just rapport building and personalty compatibility. I'm not going to run up to someone with a silly goofy grin on my face babbling about aliens and psychics hoping they will like me for my charming openness. You approach people and see what interests them and then narrow it down to common interests/lifestyle/experiences and build from there.
I may make some hasty generalizations, but you make some bold assumptions here. Reality does not fit into formulas.

I don't make bold assumptions. I'm pretty confident in breaking down certain social barriers. I've done it numerous times with people that i've had NOTHING in common with before. It's all about social skills and talking.
Also, in Taiwan, when someone says they will hook you up with someone, most of the time, they don't. They just say it for fun. You know that if you're Taiwanese. Come on now.

Of course I know that. Anyone can blow smoke not just TW people.
And like in America, many people flake too.

Everyone flakes. Depends on the strength of the connection you've made.
If they were even remotely similar, then how come my cousin's son said after watching Julia and Katya's antics in my videos, that "There is no way you could ever find girls in Taiwan that are that open and carefree. No way."

TW people aren't quite as dour as you portray it either. Winston I really think you haven't seen a wide enough spread of TW people. I've met all sorts of TW people and it's not as enclosed as you think. There's a lot of variability there.
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Postby Repatriate » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:57 pm

One last thing I will mention and reiterate. Quite a few times foreigners who go to another country are flying an obvious "MEET ME I'M DIFFERENT AND POTENTIALLY EXCITING" flag that tends to act as a beacon to attract various people who are interested in that. In some countries like the U.S. it can be a major drawback but in the rest of the world it can be beneficial in many ways.

Winston I don't think you qualify as such because you're pretty obviously of TW extract just from first glance. On the otherhand if you were Japanese, Korean, or non-asian and dressed/acted as such you would also get interest from various people. Like I said before..the guys I know who are ABCs and have had good experiences in Taiwan are stylish and "cool" guys from an American standpoint too. People initially dig them already and the "foreignness" just acts as a style points bonus with some women.
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