Happier Abroad Forum Community

Anonymous1 wrote: just curious what is middle class to you??

chinese or mestizo types???

both groups rarely date/marry out of their group

I've already answered that many times, and even in this thread.

By middle class, I mean that either:

1) She has a car and lives in a house and has cash to pay for things.
2) Or, she can walk into a restaurant and pay for her own meal without always needing a foreigner to pay for her. She can afford to treat a guy if she wants to and will sometimes do so.

For some reason, Filipinas who have money to pay for things, even meals, are not interested in foreigners and are stuck up and not very open. I guess they corrupt easily. The only ones that are truly open and eager to date a foreigner are those who don't even have money to pay for a meal at McDonald's, or at least claim they don't. So to me, any Filipina who has cash and can pay for things and doesn't need to receive money or allowance from men, is middle class. If she can afford to have pride, then she's middle class by this standard. Simple as that.

pete98146 wrote: I'll give you an example. I'm an insurance agent for one of the top 3 insurance companies in the US. Our customer service call center is in Manila. I talk to them on a daily basis. Often times when talking to one of the female CSRs I mention that my wife is Filipino. It's VERY common to say that they are jealous and they'd like to come live in the US as well. In order to get this job, you need a 4 year degree, a good command of the English language and some smarts.

Why do they want to come to us the US? Because most of them will cap out at $300-$400 per month. If they are smart girls, they know it's possible to come to the US and make 10x as much money. Are they gold diggers? No not necessarily! They are normal girls from good families that realize they can move overseas and use their brainpower to better their lives. They grow up dreaming of the things you and I take for granted.

Fact of the matter is that $300 monthly salary won't buy them a 1500 square foot house or a semi late model vehicle.

My wife had a similar story. She graduated with a 4 year degree in biology. Unable to find a job in biology, she took a job in industrial sales and did very well. But she soon realized the ceiling in the Phils is pretty darned low. So she wanted out of her native country.

Sure you are correct, most middle class girls will marry and stay in Phils and be perfectly content. But many other pretty young smart Filipinas want out. Boom that's your target audience right there in a nutshell. They are out there.....trust me. Go out and find them

Brainpower to better their lives by making more money and buying shit? Sounds just like your garden variety career woman in America.

Sure, they want material comfort and security. But the real question is whether they tried to marry a LOCAL MAN who would provide those things. That's the true test of their sincerity as wives. If their purpose is just to have a roof over their heads, and food on the table, then they don't really need to advance that far in a career. Or have a career, for that matter, if the husband is doing what he's supposed to be doing.

WiseTruth wrote:

pete98146 wrote: I'll give you an example. I'm an insurance agent for one of the top 3 insurance companies in the US. Our customer service call center is in Manila. I talk to them on a daily basis. Often times when talking to one of the female CSRs I mention that my wife is Filipino. It's VERY common to say that they are jealous and they'd like to come live in the US as well. In order to get this job, you need a 4 year degree, a good command of the English language and some smarts.

Why do they want to come to us the US? Because most of them will cap out at $300-$400 per month. If they are smart girls, they know it's possible to come to the US and make 10x as much money. Are they gold diggers? No not necessarily! They are normal girls from good families that realize they can move overseas and use their brainpower to better their lives. They grow up dreaming of the things you and I take for granted.

Fact of the matter is that $300 monthly salary won't buy them a 1500 square foot house or a semi late model vehicle.

My wife had a similar story. She graduated with a 4 year degree in biology. Unable to find a job in biology, she took a job in industrial sales and did very well. But she soon realized the ceiling in the Phils is pretty darned low. So she wanted out of her native country.

Sure you are correct, most middle class girls will marry and stay in Phils and be perfectly content. But many other pretty young smart Filipinas want out. Boom that's your target audience right there in a nutshell. They are out there.....trust me. Go out and find them

Brainpower to better their lives by making more money and buying shit? Sounds just like your garden variety career woman in America.

Sure, they want material comfort and security. But the real question is whether they tried to marry a LOCAL MAN who would provide those things. That's the true test of their sincerity as wives. If their purpose is just to have a roof over their heads, and food on the table, then they don't really need to advance that far in a career. Or have a career, for that matter, if the husband is doing what he's supposed to be doing.

One other HUGE issue that I didn't bring up is that it's still expected for the kids to send money back home to the parents. Yes this happens with middle class as well. My wife will send back $200 per month to her mother (dad died of a heart attack a few years back). This was another big reason to move abroad.

Winston wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote: just curious what is middle class to you??

chinese or mestizo types???

both groups rarely date/marry out of their group

I've already answered that many times, and even in this thread.

By middle class, I mean that either:

1) She has a car and lives in a house and has cash to pay for things.
2) Or, she can walk into a restaurant and pay for her own meal without always needing a foreigner to pay for her. She can afford to treat a guy if she wants to and will sometimes do so.

For some reason, Filipinas who have money to pay for things, even meals, are not interested in foreigners and are stuck up and not very open. I guess they corrupt easily. The only ones that are truly open and eager to date a foreigner are those who don't even have money to pay for a meal at McDonald's, or at least claim they don't. So to me, any Filipina who has cash and can pay for things and doesn't need to receive money or allowance from men, is middle class. If she can afford to have pride, then she's middle class by this standard. Simple as that.

maybe she is genuinely not interested in foreigners...I known lowerclass farmer's daughter type filipinas who were generally not interested in foreigners and were satisfied living a simple life

you dont need a car to have pride

just because someone married a foreginer doesnt mean they cant afford a mcdonalds meal...many women who marry japanese oe korean men actually eat 3 meals a day with a roof over their heads and electricity...though pressure by the family to help pay for their siblings education or an unexpected hospital visit of one of their relatives makes them marry japanese or korean men(so they can have better income from their job)

look at some of these filipina wives in Korea....some of them work multiple jobs to send money back home to their family

Winston wrote:Living near middle class girls isn't going to make them more open to you. A lot of middle class girls don't talk to strangers whether you meet them in a neighborhood or mall.

In Fremont, CA, I lived in a rich neighborhood, but I didn't get any dates cause of that.

No one thinks I'm poor. I just live very efficiently. I am not settled here. I am transient here, a traveler, so to speak.

Being financially independent is more important than showing off nice cars and houses that you don't own and are making monthly payments on in debt...

Outwest, you're a f***ing asshole...

Why is he a f.ucking asshole? If you choose to hang out exclusively in a whore town, then you won't meet many (if any) normal middle-class girls. Most likely, they'll shun you if they knew where you hung out. Or does this argument lack common sense??

And the rich neighborhood you lived in was in the US, where a man's dating chances are already poor to begin with, regardless of whether you're middle class or not. DUH! Or did you not know this already??

Also, your point about being financially independent is LAME. Equally important as financial independence is the CHOICE you make of where to live, what kind of women to pursue, and for what reasons. You were financially independent, and could have lived anywhere in the Phils. Yet, you chose to live in Angeles. So don't be surprised that you scored only whores, which reflects the choice of living in a whore town rather than where the respectable girls live.

Baron wrote:Winston..

This country has about 90M population. 10% are Freaking Rich who don't give a flying crap about foreginers like us. (Unless we are like CEO or executive level foreigners).
There is NO real such middle class in this country.

10% Rich who holds 90% of the country's wealth.
20% People who can barely manage their own lives...
70% People who live with $2-5 bucks per day

You can still manage yourself to meet those 20% but however, since they are financially capable of taking care of their own things, they don't really mingle with foreginers unless they see you attractive...
Top 10% = If you don't live a freaking high class life, don't even bother talking to them and realize that they treat you like an insect.. To these 10%, we are really not welcomed unless you can show them you have the social status already.

I'm sorry but I beg to disagree. Although it's a possibility and I presume that you based your comments from your experience(s). The seriously rich (and old rich at that) here are mostly polite and don't treat people like dirt/an insect. There are some uppity ones but there are many that are low-key and humble, too, despite being rich for centuries. Most of them, especially the old Spanish-Filipino families, have this paternal attitude to those who have "less" in life. They were brought up that way and politely at that. And many have friends from other social statuses too. Some marry beneath their "social level". I have many classmates at primary school and dated a few guys that are rich-rich, even by Western standards. My own family (meaning my father, mother, siblings & I) don't belong to that category although there are "richer" branches of the family/clan, and my paternal side is from the Mandarin/Scholar-Official/Landed Gentry class in China while my maternal side (although "tainted" by being an illegitimate daughter of a Spanish friar) were part of the local aristocracy/local leaders in the Spanish/early American colonial times, had lost their lands in the early 20th century and thus, definitely poor. My mother had to work her way through high school and college and actually worked as a nanny.

Many of the elite here do not care about social status, since they have that from birth. Perhaps you met a few rude ones? However, from my own experience, they are not like that. For inheritance reasons - which tend to be familial and inter-generational feuds - many now have a prenuptial agreement, whether the guy is also lrich or not. I guess that's what matters to them, especially if the family wealth is tied-up into complicated trusts/feuds. However, I should distinguish between the true elite ("Manila's 400") and the "celebrities" that seem to be "elite" and being built up by media as such. They are definitely not the same and they don't usually mix. Should they happen to be at the same event, the former will be polite to the latter but tend to be wary and stick to their own. The cattier ones will be laughing at the latter, especially if they are blatant, tacky and have airs.

I know of a rich-rich heiress (in the Forbes Billionaires List) who married a not-so-wealthy lawyer. She is the oldest sister of a classmate. Her family loves the guy - might not be rich but certainly a good asset to the family, being a top notch lawyer who is connected with the top law firm here, very decent and responsible. His salary as a partner of the firm is indeed substantial but that isn't the point. In other words, he did bring something into the family.., that is, his skills and knowledge, but definitely no serious wealth.

On a more 'reachable' level, many of the middle class (including upper middle class ones who always lived very comfortable lives and had gone to the best schools here and even abroad) would at least be open to dating foreigners. Open being the keyword. What happens next depends on personal preferences, shared goals and values, and of course, chemistry/attraction.

After reading many comments in this topic, I understand that maybe I am looking for lower class Filipinas.

I definitely do not need a girl who has 'enough' money to live all alone and be independent. Also if she is with me, she will not work, for many reasons.
I hate women's independence the way western world lives it. No more feminism and anything related.

Of course, I guess it is not impossible to meet a middle class Filipina, who wants to be with me, and leave alone the simple job that may has.

What give me a lot of hope, it is that in DateinAsia, I see that almost ALL girls, say 'yes' to relocation.

So I guess, I am looking for a poor Filipina, with good manners and morals.

mentor wrote:After reading many comments in this topic, I understand that maybe I am looking for lower class Filipinas.

I definitely do not need a girl who has 'enough' money to live all alone and be independent. Also if she is with me, she will not work, for many reasons.
I hate women's independence the way western world lives it. No more feminism and anything related.

Of course, I guess it is not impossible to meet a middle class Filipina, who wants to be with me, and leave alone the simple job that may has.

What give me a lot of hope, it is that in DateinAsia, I see that almost ALL girls, say 'yes' to relocation.

So I guess, I am looking for a poor Filipina, with good manners and morals.

Understand what you are saying bro! Since I'm now going on 10 years of marriage with my Filipina wife, my initial reply is that you want to make sure that your potential wife is an asset and not a liability. I cannot stress this enough. Living in the States is expensive these days! Don't forget that not only will you be supporting your future wife, kids perhaps as well, there is a good chance that you'll be expected to send back $200-$300 a month to her family. Is this doable for you?

pete98146 wrote:
Understand what you are saying bro! Since I'm now going on 10 years of marriage with my Filipina wife, my initial reply is that you want to make sure that your potential wife is an asset and not a liability. I cannot stress this enough. Living in the States is expensive these days! Don't forget that not only will you be supporting your future wife, kids perhaps as well, there is a good chance that you'll be expected to send back $200-$300 a month to her family. Is this doable for you?

Is this money sending to her family, a usual typical obligation?
If her parents want her as a family worker to bring them money, they can keep her for themselves!
I cannot accept somebody to require paying because I got her daughter.
I am not 'renting' a girl to be forced to pay a monthly or annual fee!!!
If some of filipino families see it this way, I just don't follow. I can't compromise in such 'traditions'.
I hope there are girls that they just want a pure-stable-lovable long term relationship, without money matters.
So many girls out there, it can't be all of them gold-hunters.

mentor wrote:

pete98146 wrote:
Understand what you are saying bro! Since I'm now going on 10 years of marriage with my Filipina wife, my initial reply is that you want to make sure that your potential wife is an asset and not a liability. I cannot stress this enough. Living in the States is expensive these days! Don't forget that not only will you be supporting your future wife, kids perhaps as well, there is a good chance that you'll be expected to send back $200-$300 a month to her family. Is this doable for you?

Is this money sending to her family, a usual typical obligation?
If her parents want her as a family worker to bring them money, they can keep her for themselves!
I cannot accept somebody to require paying because I got her daughter.
I am not 'renting' a girl to be forced to pay a monthly or annual fee!!!
If some of filipino families see it this way, I just don't follow. I can't compromise in such 'traditions'.
I hope there are girls that they just want a pure-stable-lovable long term relationship, without money matters.
So many girls out there, it can't be all of them gold-hunters.

See, I can understand why you feel this way, but I look at it from a different angle: you want a girl who is close to her family, right? I think that kind of woman will be more loyal to her husband, and a better mother to your children. But if they suddenly have access to all this money/resources, don't you think they'd want to ease their family's situation? The same communal, caring attitude that makes Filipinas such great mates is the drive that makes them loyal to their parents. Of course one needs to set boundries- I'm not going to support a zillion cousins- but $200-300 isn't out of control at all. Men will pay double that to lease a sports car just to attract women; frankly, I'd feel better with my money going to Filipino villagers than some car company.

Balmung, I understand your thoughts, very logical, I admit it.
Realistic description, I like it.
But I cannot agree with it.

I could help her family in a difficult situation, no doubt about it. But it is against my beliefs, to pay for having even a good girl.
I just can't.

I think that there are good girls that will accept a really trusty and loyal relationship, without requiring from me paying a 'salary' to her family.

I know that there are girls looking for sponsorship.
Help for studies, help for family, and so on.
I don't want such girls.
I don't want relationship that includes 'money' inside it.
I will have the money we will need, for me and the girl, for a simple and nice life, but that's all.

I will not play the role of sponsor.
When I see in profiles 'help my family', I understand the situation, but I proceed to next profile.
If my road will be crossed with such girls, I will go my way, and they can find the sponsorships elsewhere.

Somewhere in these asian lands should be a nice girl waiting for me, with no money requirements. I believe it.

In any case, I want to read many opinions on these topics.

A girl who loves her family, cannot be expected to live a comfortable life and never share anything with them. When her parents are in danger of, say, losing their house to a loan? It's hard to find a Filipina girl who would not do anything in her power to help them out.

Nine out of ten Filipinas you will meet will be poor. Their families will be poor. Or at the very least, some of their relatives will be. Do you expect her not to help? She will ask you, some times, to give some money to someone. You may say no. You may say yes. Assuming you have some degree of financial stability, you would be heartless to always so no. And you would be naive to marry a girl that would never once help her family, because such a girl would not be wife material.

One day you will be old and in need of a helping hand, and you will find that others will extend their help for you. Marry a girl who refuses to help her family, who does not respect or care for her parents, and you can be sure she will leave you the minute she finds a richer guy. You've already established, after all, her loyalty to her family isn't the greatest. So why would her loyalty for you and the family you establish with her, be any better?

What a useful conversation! You really help me!

Ok, somewhere I see the phrase regarding these relationships:
'set the expectations from the start'.

So, I need your suggestions, to be real as I want, and set a realistic ground about this topic with my mate.

"I could help depending on my current financial situation, on occasional basis, and after reasoning and thinking about a difficult situation back in Philippines."

Depending on my mood, as I described it above, and a more realistic approach on what we discuss, do you find it as a good declaration?
I think it is logical, but lets see your comments.

I have to say, that before this discussion I did not calculated such expenses. I am not rich. Of course I am not poor too. Middle class, by european standards.
Don't I have the 'right' to approach a filipina, if I am not rich?
I mean, maybe I can afford the living of the two of us by my salary, but practically, I am not having such income to support others.
Is this acceptable by filipina girls?

I am christian, I believe in philanthropy and charity, but, it all depends on the money you have.

So, this topic has two axis, the beliefs (do I find it right? want it or not?), and the real numbers of money (enough or not).

Give any clarifications you want on my thoughts.

A last word on these: I want my filipina to stay at home and not working in a formal job, but I can't have 2 jobs myself to support regularly others.

I don't think this is incompatible.

mentor wrote:Balmung, I understand your thoughts, very logical, I admit it.
Realistic description, I like it.
But I cannot agree with it.

I could help her family in a difficult situation, no doubt about it. But it is against my beliefs, to pay for having even a good girl.
I just can't.

I think that there are good girls that will accept a really trusty and loyal relationship, without requiring from me paying a 'salary' to her family.

I know that there are girls looking for sponsorship.
Help for studies, help for family, and so on.
I don't want such girls.
I don't want relationship that includes 'money' inside it.
I will have the money we will need, for me and the girl, for a simple and nice life, but that's all.

I will not play the role of sponsor.
When I see in profiles 'help my family', I understand the situation, but I proceed to next profile.
If my road will be crossed with such girls, I will go my way, and they can find the sponsorships elsewhere.

Somewhere in these asian lands should be a nice girl waiting for me, with no money requirements. I believe it.

In any case, I want to read many opinions on these topics.

For ANY guy that is serious about marrying a filipina, you NEED to add $200-$300 into your monthly budget for her to send back home. I know quite a few filipinos (male and female) and I can't think of any that don't send money back home to the family. It's just part of the deal! Better to account for it than not. If it's a deal breaker then time to pursue a different avenue.

mentor wrote:

pete98146 wrote:
Understand what you are saying bro! Since I'm now going on 10 years of marriage with my Filipina wife, my initial reply is that you want to make sure that your potential wife is an asset and not a liability. I cannot stress this enough. Living in the States is expensive these days! Don't forget that not only will you be supporting your future wife, kids perhaps as well, there is a good chance that you'll be expected to send back $200-$300 a month to her family. Is this doable for you?

Is this money sending to her family, a usual typical obligation?
If her parents want her as a family worker to bring them money, they can keep her for themselves!
I cannot accept somebody to require paying because I got her daughter.
I am not 'renting' a girl to be forced to pay a monthly or annual fee!!!
If some of filipino families see it this way, I just don't follow. I can't compromise in such 'traditions'.
I hope there are girls that they just want a pure-stable-lovable long term relationship, without money matters.
So many girls out there, it can't be all of them gold-hunters.

This issue might be the hardest one to navigate for a Westerner. There is no absolute answer and once you are married to a Filipina you will be dealing with this in some way. Every couple has to decide what they want to do and can afford to do. Contrary to some of the guys who claim they only hang out with wealthy or middle class Pinays, most Filipino families are poor - it's only a matter of the degree of poverty. As Marcos said, she will want to help her family.

Now that you are in love and married you have to recognize this. But how to help the family; there are as many ways as there are couples out there. Some couples decide to send a monthly allowance; the guy may pay or it gets paid out of the wife's earnings in the West. I know other couples who only contribute for emergencies - but then it's an issue of how you define an emergency. I know several guys who claim they pay nothing, but I tend not to believe them. If their MIL is in the hospital needing surgery that she cannot afford - is the couple going to let her die?

Here's what I would say:

1. Hope that the family is a good one that doesn't just want your money; make it clear to the family and your wife that you are not a "rich kano," even though compared to them you are.
2. Avoid "inflation". You don't want a situation where you are paying $200/month today, 300 next year and 500 the year after. In some families greed can take over.
3. Don't be overly generous. I know guys who try to elevate the family to Western standards and end up either broke or with everyone resentful.

Here's a recent experience I may have already shared. A few week back, Janet's uncle died unexpectedly. The family was devastated. While we never got a request to "help" with the funeral, I knew Janet would want to help. Eventually she broached the question. We did some research on the cost of funerals in the Philippines; just as everywhere else they can go from cheap to expensive. Janet and I threw around a figure of 10k (under $250) that we were willing to contribute and we agreed to split the payment. Janet talked to her mother that night and proposed the contribution. Her mother said it was too much. In the end we sent 8k (about $180). So we did help, as did the rest of the family.

Expect to help the family but surely you can determine with your wife how that will happen.