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Brutal Truth about Russian Morality, Greed, Hypocrisy

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.

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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm

Winston wrote:The most disturbing psychological thing about being in Russia is that creepy feeling that the people around you just don't care or have empathy, sympathy or conscience about what happens to you. Deep down, you know that if you got hurt, or were injured and suffering, that no one would feel any emotion about it. It's kind of like if you are in the wild jungle, you know that the predators, lions and tigers will not have any sympathy or compassion toward you. No one will care about you or protect you. That's a scary feeling.


Hi Winston,
this is the same across all the english speaking world. If you are attacked and criminally abused by a woman not only will others not care about you they will actually further the attack against you. This was a BIG surprise to me.

Morality in the west is FAR worse than what I experienced in Russia. At least in Russia it would merely be that no one cared about what happened to you.

In the west EVEN YOUR FAMILY WILL HATE ON YOU and further criminal activities against you.
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Re: Brutal Truth about Russian Morality from Repatriate?

Postby Jester » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:39 am

Winston wrote:
Jester wrote:
PS Btw actually **I** don't personally find you attractive enough to date. :wink:



I don't care if you find me attractive or not. I'm not trying to date you. You or I probably wouldn't consider most of the guys here to be attractive either.

But many hot Chinese women consider me to be attractive enough for them. :P


I was trying to be funny but guess I won't quit my dayjob
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Postby a110263f » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:24 am

Hello everybody. I am a Russian citizen and live in the South Urals region in the heart of Russia. So I can provide you with the first-hand information on the topic.
I can confirm that Ladislav is predomonantly right with few exceptions.
Westerners will never understand Russians and vice versa.
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Postby Winston » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:13 pm

a110263f wrote:Hello everybody. I am a Russian citizen and live in the South Urals region in the heart of Russia. So I can provide you with the first-hand information on the topic.
I can confirm that Ladislav is predomonantly right with few exceptions.
Westerners will never understand Russians and vice versa.


Ok then answer this simple question:

Why am I expected to be generous in Russia, be willing to pay any price, never be frugal, never count my change, never argue about price, act as though my money were unlimited, let everyone scam me, etc. yet in Russia no one is ever generous to me, never gives away anything for free, and in fact is stingy as hell to me?

Can you justify this big double standard or explain it logically? I've been asking this since 2003 but no one has been able to justify it or explain it other than with "because they are bad people and want to scam you."

However, please don't use this typical Russian copout:

"I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know any Russian people who expect foreigners to be generous or pressure them to be. Maybe you are meeting the wrong kind of people."

That's BS. It's not just the bad Russians that expect me to be generous and see frugality as something evil and disgusting, it's NORMAL MAINSTREAM Russians that act that way as well. So please don't use that copout that Russians try to use. It's not true.

I've been asking this since 2003, yet no one can give me a logical answer, other than "they are scamming you". All Ladislav can say is "You don't understand Russians" which is another copout.

Would you like it if I cheated you and scammed you, and said "You just don't understand me" as justification?

On a side question: Are Russian men really always generous and willing to spend all for a woman? I find that hard to believe since the Russian men I've seen are very stingy and frugal and don't give away anything for free.
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Postby Winston » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:34 pm

I emailed world female chess champion Alexandra Kosteniuk, a Russian, through her website and asked her to the same question above. I figured an intellectual like her may be able to provide some sensible insights. I wrote her:

> Hi Alexandra,
> Since you are obviously very smart, I was wondering if you could give me your take on something.
>
> I have been to Russia many times. I have noticed that women there expect me to not care about cost or expense and expect me to spend as though I have bottomless pockets. But the thing is, anyone with common sense knows that it is not wise to waste all your hard earned money. Yet if I don't spend freely like I don't care, then Russian women look disgusted. I don't understand their logic. Don't they know that it is stupid to waste money?
>
> How can I spend wisely in Russia without offending Russian women? I have never been able to solve this problem.
>
> How do Russian men solve it? I do not think that Russian women are willing to throw away all their money on a whim. They are very frugal too.
>
> Finally, since Russians are very frugal and do not like to give away free things to others, especially to foreigners, why am I, as a foreigner, expected to never be frugal and to be overly generous all the time? I don't understand this double standard. Can you explain?
>
> Thanks,
> Winston
> HappierAbroad.com



Here was her response:

It depends on the type of women you meet. Most Russian women are not like that.
Maybe they think you're rich and in Russia for a few days and want to have a good time,
and they are the kind of women who are looking out for rich and generous men.
I've never been in that situation or seen any women like you describe, so I can't help.
The work of a chess grandmaster is very tough, pays not much, and I know the value
of hard earned salary or prize money, and I use almost all of it to pay my trainers.

Good luck!


As you can see, it was another copout. It is not just the bad women who expect me to be non-frugal and very generous, it was NORMAL MAINSTREAM Russian women that expected that.

Can you imagine stingy Jewish people in Russia? LOL That would be their worst nightmare. LOL
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Postby a110263f » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Ordinary Russian men and women are frugal and modest enough. But the peculiarity of Russian people is to mind what are they thought about by other people.
It is a typical situation in a street: a mom says to a crying baby: "Don't cry, look, that passer-by will take you from me"
or "Don't cry, everybody looks at you and say that you are a bad boy (girl)"
or an old lady says to a crying child in a bus: "Don't cry I'll take you from your mom, ok?" and so on.
Russians are irrational sometimes and there is no logical explanation why. I do some things without any logical reason sometimes. Why? I don't know. And Russian are sociable people, they can open to each other easily.
So Russians consider westerners being cold, withdrawn and selfish, always wearing a glued smile.
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Postby Winston » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:40 pm

a110263f wrote:Ordinary Russian men and women are frugal and modest enough. But the peculiarity of Russian people is to mind what are they thought about by other people.
It is a typical situation in a street: a mom says to a crying baby: "Don't cry, look, that passer-by will take you from me"
or "Don't cry, everybody looks at you and say that you are a bad boy (girl)"
or an old lady says to a crying child in a bus: "Don't cry I'll take you from your mom, ok?" and so on.
Russians are irrational sometimes and there is no logical explanation why. I do some things without any logical reason sometimes. Why? I don't know. And Russian are sociable people, they can open to each other easily.
So Russians consider westerners being cold, withdrawn and selfish, always wearing a glued smile.


That didn't really answer my questions above. Again, here are the questions:

1. Why do Russians shame you if you're not a big spender who freely spends in compliance with whatever they tell you to spend on? Yet Russians themselves are not free spenders but count their money. They do not give away anything for free. A Russian church will not even give you a free Bible. And a Russian cashier will not let it go if you are short one kopek (3 cents). They definitely count their money for sure. So why then is it "bad behavior" for a foreigner to count their money but it's acceptable for a Russian person to do so? What's the logic here?

2. What right does a Russian have to force a foreigner to spend freely against his will, and force him to "waste money" against his will?

Important note: It is NOT true that only a few "bad Russians" do this. Good Russians do it too. They are just not as overt or vocal about it. Therefore, this must be an INTEGRAL part of mainstream Russian behavior, not limited to a fringe group. In Russian culture, being frugal or spending wisely is seen as "bad behavior", therefore, this is a core facet of Russian culture and mentality, not something limited to only a few bad apples or gold diggers.

3. Why is it that whenever I send the above questions to a Russian, even an educated intelligent Russian (such as the Russian woman chess champion I quoted above), they always deny it and claim that they have no idea what I'm talking about and don't know any Russians who are like this? How can something be an INTEGRAL part of Russian behavior yet be constantly denied? That doesn't make sense and is illogical. Are these people lying or in denial? Or they will give a copout answer and say that "you just don't understand Russian people" without giving any logical explanations to the questions.

For example, I emailed the above questions to the Russian women's chess champion, Alexandra Kosteniuk. I thought that as one of the smartest Russian women, she would be able to give the most sensible intelligent answers to these questions. But instead, her response was this:

"It depends on the type of women you meet. Most Russian women are not like that.
Maybe they think you're rich and in Russia for a few days and want to have a good time,
and they are the kind of women who are looking out for rich and generous men.
I've never been in that situation or seen any women like you describe, so I can't help.
The work of a chess grandmaster is very tough, pays not much, and I know the value
of hard earned salary or prize money, and I use almost all of it to pay my trainers.

Good luck!"

As you can see, she gave a typical woman's politically correct claptrap. How is it that she's never met any Russians like this, yet I met them everywhere? And how can she deny something that is an integral part of Russian culture that runs through the mainstream, and is not limited to just a few bad apples or gold diggers?

It is a FACT that frugality, spending wisely, and being economical is seen as "bad behavior" in Russian culture. I don't know why. It is illogical and doesn't make sense. But it is apparent from their behavior, mentality, words, and shaming tactics. So why does she deny this? Or sometimes they will just say "You don't understand Russian people or the Russian soul" without giving any logical explanations or answers, which is a copout.
Last edited by Winston on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Winston » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:25 pm

Winston wrote:1. Why do Russians shame you if you're not a big spender who freely spends in compliance with whatever they tell you to spend on? Yet Russians themselves are not free spenders but count their money. They do not give away anything for free. A Russian church will not even give you a free Bible. And a Russian cashier will not let it go if you are short one kopek (3 cents). They definitely count their money for sure. So why then is it "bad behavior" for a foreigner to count their money but it's acceptable for a Russian person to do so? What's the logic here?

2. What right does a Russian have to force a foreigner to spend freely against his will, and force him to "waste money" against his will?

Important note: It is NOT true that only a few "bad Russians" do this. Good Russians do it too. They are just not as overt or vocal about it. Therefore, this must be an INTEGRAL part of mainstream Russian behavior, not limited to a fringe group. In Russian culture, being frugal or spending wisely is seen as "bad behavior", therefore, this is a core facet of Russian culture and mentality, not something limited to only a few bad apples or gold diggers.

3. Why is it that whenever I send the above questions to a Russian, even an educated intelligent Russian (such as the Russian woman chess champion I quoted above), they always deny it and claim that they have no idea what I'm talking about and don't know any Russians who are like this? How can something be an INTEGRAL part of Russian behavior yet be constantly denied? That doesn't make sense and is illogical. Are these people lying or in denial? Or they will give a copout answer and say that "you just don't understand Russian people" without giving any logical explanations to the questions.

For example, I emailed the above questions to the Russian women's chess champion, Alexandra Kosteniuk. I thought that as one of the smartest Russian women, she would be able to give the most sensible intelligent answers to these questions. But instead, her response was this:

"It depends on the type of women you meet. Most Russian women are not like that.
Maybe they think you're rich and in Russia for a few days and want to have a good time,
and they are the kind of women who are looking out for rich and generous men.
I've never been in that situation or seen any women like you describe, so I can't help.
The work of a chess grandmaster is very tough, pays not much, and I know the value
of hard earned salary or prize money, and I use almost all of it to pay my trainers.

Good luck!"

As you can see, she gave a typical woman's politically correct claptrap. How is it that she's never met any Russians like this, yet I met them everywhere? And how can she deny something that is an integral part of Russian culture that runs through the mainstream, and is not limited to just a few bad apples or gold diggers?

It is a FACT that frugality, spending wisely, and being economical is seen as "bad behavior" in Russian culture. I don't know why. It is illogical and doesn't make sense. But it is apparent from their behavior, mentality, words, and shaming tactics. So why does she deny this? Or sometimes they will just say "You don't understand Russian people or the Russian soul" without giving any logical explanations or answers, which is a copout.


A guy I know who worked in Russia gave me his take on the above questions:

"1. They think foreigners are richer by default. Or Foreigners can be asked for more for any reason. So if foreigners don't spend more, then they are disappointed. But then there are corporations where russians are employed in foreign companies in Moscow. Here they intermingle and the difference is not so strong really.

2. These are the ones who are newer to foreigners. Especially women want men to spend more all the time.
There are men who again thing foreigners are supposed to be richer by default and sometimes it's a feeling of jealousy too.

3. They live in denial. Sometimes, talking to a foreigner, a feeling of national pride also comes and will not let them accept their shortcoming. There is another thing - a russian will not easily or humbly accept his mistake in anything. they always try to put the blame on someone, usually a foreigner, be it from a former Soviet republic. ;)"
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Postby ladislav » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:38 pm

1. Why do Russians shame you if you're not a big spender who freely spends in compliance with whatever they tell you to spend on? Yet Russians themselves are not free spenders but count their money. They do not give away anything for free. A Russian church will not even give you a free Bible. And a Russian cashier will not let it go if you are short one kopek (3 cents). They definitely count their money for sure. So why then is it "bad behavior" for a foreigner to count their money but it's acceptable for a Russian person to do so? What's the logic here?


Russia has several classes. One is the oligarchs- the uber rich. These will not ask you for shyt. Then, there is the intelligentsia class- artists, poets, writers, musicians, composers, etc- these will also not ask you for anything and will even help you. They however, do not speak foreign languages and you will not meet them unless yo speak Russian.

Then, you have the peasant classes- they are similar to the Filipino rural people who are very communal, who share everything and who depend on a large group of friends. The upper two classes do not mingle with them. They also used to be serfs- please do a research on serfdom- basically slavery and they do not see work as something that leads to reward but just as drudgery for the benefit of the feudal lord. Communism did not eliminate those classes, but simply dressed them in red color temporarily. Now, they are back to normal.

The intelligentsia and the olygarchs do not mingle with these peasants/serfs because they know they have no dignity and that they do not see money as something earned by the person who had earned it but something that a feudal lord has because the peasants worked for him. Therefore the lord owes the money back to the masses.

Why do they shame you? Because you chose to be the member of the oppressed peasant stratum and now that you are one of them ( because neither the intelligentsia not the olygarchs will be caught dead among them) you should now share- because they share inside of their groups. The richer ones protect the poorer ones and the ones who are on equal footing share freely among each other.

This has been the system for the past few thousand years. You want to change it? Good luck!

2. What right does a Russian have to force a foreigner to spend freely against his will, and force him to "waste money" against his will?


We are not talking about rights here. We are talking about tendencies and rules within their peasant groupings. There, a rich peasant who chose to hang out with them is supposed to share with the poor ones- the same in Thailand, Philippines, etc. This is why anyone with money stays away from these communal groups of rural folks. They will suck money out of you to equalize the field before you know. The above classes do not associate with them and neither should you. As in Thailand and the Philippines, a naive 1st worlder with a bleeding heart loses his shirts among these people who do not value money as they are used to land being the source of livelihood. Neither America, nor Taiwan have peasant classes and you still do not know how they operate.

3. Why is it that whenever I send the above questions to a Russian, even an educated intelligent Russian (such as the Russian woman chess champion I quoted above), they always deny it and claim that they have no idea what I'm talking about and don't know any Russians who are like this? How can something be an INTEGRAL part of Russian behavior yet be constantly denied? That doesn't make sense and is illogical. Are these people lying or in denial? Or they will give a copout answer and say that "you just don't understand Russian people" without giving any logical explanations to the questions.


Well, no one likes for foreigners to criticize his country- do you? They will just either deny it or tell you to get the hell out of there. And they don't know such people because they don't associate with the peasantry and the peasantry knows better than to ask them for money. The classes do not mingle. Same as in the Philippines.

Did you see how the rich in the Philippines live? Behind high fences with glass shards and barbed wire on top of them. And no way in hell will they allow their son to date the peasant classes because these will bleed the rich dry. But here comes the Amerikano and the peasants just love him. He associates with them and dates their daughters ( the rich Filipinos think this as a suicidal act) and he treats them to dinner- now, lets turn up the volume a bit and ask the American for money and now for more money. Oh, by the way, they just saw an American movie and it said America is the richest nation on earth, so Americans have unlimited money. Unlike them. Hey Joe, give me money. And give me more money.

Stupid Joe!


Naive foreigners who do not speak Russian and who do not know the culture and who go there just to date the blonds are the ones who get ripped off.

The stinginess you are talking about is from a stranger to a stranger and from the poorer to the richer. Within family and friend groupings everything is shared and those who are richer patronize those who are poorer.

Generally, if you don't speak Russian and do not know how things are in Russia, you will never understand it. Most foreigners do not learn Russian and do not even crack a book on Russian history and ways. They just want girls, girls, girls. And they walk around like they are hot shyt while they are in a foreign country on a visa which can be revoked at any time.

The ones who do things the Russian way, learn Russian and integrate into the culture on local terms have few problems.
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Postby ajvf97 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:11 am

After reading this and based on my experiences with Russians, as well as them invading Ukraine under completely false pretexts, it's simply not worth it for me to get a visa to Russia. I've never been there, and I simply do not possess the desire to ever do so. From what I've read and heard, the current regime is aggressively cracking down on freedom there while sending it on a path towards reversionism. Seems I'd be too much of a target if I were to go to Russia. Yeah, the USA isn't as free as it seems and one could be a target anywhere they go, but why go through the trouble of paying for a visa to be around cold, uncaring sociopaths? What's the point? If Russian women are your thing, there are plenty of immigrant communities and countries besides Ukraine (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) with significant Russian populations, where you don't have to worry about spending extra money on a visa you might not even get approved for.
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Postby Luc Furr » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:06 am

And when I lived in Japan, I knew a Japanese guy in shipping. He joked and bragged about how he over charged stupid Americans and Canadians...2x-4x the normal shipping rate. Ripping people off happens everywhere.

Some Russians are thieves, some are not, some Americans are jerks, some are not ...... "Race" and "country" do NOT define people. Except that most English speakers don't learn foreign languages worth a shite thing, that is kind of true. :D


NorthAmericanguy wrote:
ladislav wrote:Agreed. And if you are a foreigner there and do not know what is going on, you will attract criminals who will scam you or worse. You think it does not go on in the USA? Think again! When the Japanese bought the Rockefeller Center, they were charged double and I have met an American guy who was bragging how he was overcharging the Japanese - double again. And look at the subprime rate crisis. A lot of it was due to the fact that many Mexican immigrants were sold houses with contracts they did not understand.


America is full of scams and when I was new in it, I fell for many. Loan scams, job placement scams, high interest investment scams, work at home scams, internet business scams, patent scams, they are everywhere. Most golden opportunities online are pure bs. My Dad would often call America a land of liars, of people with no conscience, of rip of artists and smoochers. He was new to it so he did not know what was going on. One last thing he was drawn into before he passed away was some poetry scam whereby he wrote some poem and had it published for a price. He proudly got the book and it said there that it had a Library of Congress registration number. He was extatic! Now he was listed as a poet with the US Library of Congress. Well, what he did not know was that anyone could do that and that he did not have to pay that company money for it.

I told my Dad that this was a scam and he did not know the meaning of the word 'scam'.

You grew up in the US so you are very much aware of where a scam is and what it looks like. The US scams are obvious to you, but they are not obvious to naive foreigners. You also would not want to get involved with poor people in the US who live in projects or trailer parks, and do business with them, would you? Lots of criminals and dishonest people there.


My god you nailed it! This is what keeps me coming back to Happier Abroad; you guys are smart!

One thing about American scams is that they are orchestrated in such a professional manner that you find it hard to believe that it's a scam in the first place.

In other words, when you see Amercian scam artists, the are attractive, they are usually driving a luxury car, they wear nice suits, they speak well, and many have a degrees, so stupid Americans will automatically assume that whatever product the person is pushing is legit without doing any research.



ladislav wrote:Also, do you know what happens to illegals when they cross into the USA? Many are shot, girls are raped and people are often robbed in the desert. Foreigners who are in a new land need to be extremely careful.


Yea, but in this case, it's the Mexican people who are doing this to their own people. They are called Coyotes and they make money from smuggling people from Mexico into the United States.

Basically what happens is, once Coyotes get people in the middle of the desert where people don't know where they are, they sometimes demand more money, they rape the women, some are killed, and others are left to find their way to the America alone.




"A recent report from the Cronkite News Service, a student-run news service of Arizona State University, shed the national spotlight on a new immigration problem plaguing the desert border towns of Arizona: so called “rape trees,â€￾ trees on the U.S. side of the border littered with women’s undergarments. Mexican drug cartel members and the coyotes, who smuggle immigrants across the border, are believed to rape the women as soon as they enter U.S. territory to instill fear, intimidate and control them. When the coyote-rapists are finished, they hang the women’s panties from the trees as trophies to mark their brutal conquests."


http://www.nowpublic.com/world/rape-tre ... eminders-o
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