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Ukraine revolution 2014

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.

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Ukraine revolution 2014

Postby ladislav » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:20 pm

I really admire the passion, resolve and heroism if these people. 101 dead and the President flees. The people have had enough.

This video is in Ukrainian but the subtitles basically says that people had a dream, it was stolen from them but they did not accept it and did not give up and it ends with " do not be indifferent, Ukraine is Europe".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW6hWPZglv8[/youtube]

Somewhere people actually believe that people can and will have power. I wish them well and hope it works out this time.
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Postby Wolfeye » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:36 pm

From what I understand these weren't Pro-EU people, but Far-Right ultra-natinalists that have a problem with Russia. There was a Pro-EU vs Pro-Russia debate going on & then these people came up (seemingly with help from the Americans, who always made a big point of being against these sorts of political parties), with everyone presuming that they are the Pro-EU side. Apparently, they want nuclear pre-emtive strike capabilities & all kinds of other crazy shit. Granted- not everything they say is crazy, but when is it ever that way?

Don't know every angle of this situation, but I certainly hope they don't outsource their abilities to handle problems to America or other countries. The way things go in America doesn't usually match the hype & reputation, thus causing massive problems for it- but also for anybody that's tied to them. A major thing is also that America tries to command anyone that it comes in contact with (including its own citizens), so if they're "steering the ship" there's a massive amount of potential for them crashing it into an iceberg- one that they probably say isn't there because they don't recognize it as such.
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Postby gsjackson » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:56 pm

This is more my understanding of the clustermuck that's going on, rather than ladislav's starry-eyed tale of freedom, seemingly lifted straight from US government and corporate-media propaganda (what a pathetic spectacle seeing people like George Clooney and Bob Costas -- both of whom I'd previously admired -- enlisted into the propaganda campaign).

The US is really getting into bed with some strange people in order to bring off these coups -- Al Quaeda in Syria, and far-right, anti-Semite nationalists in Ukraine. But we've got to poke our noses into everybody's business.

One of my sources of information, BTW, is guys on the Roosh forum who are living in Ukraine or have previously. One of them argued that this woman who was just released from jail was as corrupt as she could be in office.
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Postby Tsar » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:12 am

The US and EU are targeting Russian allies. Assad in Syria and Yanukovych in Ukraine were allies with Russia. It's about destabilizing the two countries and causing problems for Russia. Russia is a good country, with strong opportunities for growth, and growing religion. It is against feminism, homosexuality, and is with China in abandoning the US dollar. I am rooting for Assad and Yanukovych because they are pro-Russian and anti-West. Anywhere the US or the EU goes is soon decaying and collapsing. Anywhere the IMF goes becomes more in ruins and the local population suffers.
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Postby gsjackson » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:14 am

Tsar wrote:The US and EU are targeting Russian allies. Assad in Syria and Yanukovych in Ukraine were allies with Russia. It's about destabilizing the two countries and causing problems for Russia. Russia is a good country, with strong opportunities for growth, and growing religion. It is against feminism, homosexuality, and is with China in abandoning the US dollar. I am rooting for Assad and Yanukovych because they are pro-Russian and anti-West. Anywhere the US or the EU goes is soon decaying and collapsing. Anywhere the IMF goes becomes more in ruins and the local population suffers.


Agreed. It's interesting to watch the demonization in the US of Russia and Putin, a politician whose every utterance has sounded perfectly reasonable to me. With Arab terrorists keeping a low profile, Chavez gone and Fidel fading from the scene, guess there was a need for a new bogeyman to keep those military-industrial complex dollars flowing.

I've agreed with Putin on virtually every issue where he's butted heads with Obama and other fathead American pols, among them Georgia, Syria, Snowden, the nature of American exceptionalism, an American missile defense shield on Russia's border, Ukraine and gay propaganda. As to the latter, whatever you views may be on whether homosexuality should be normalized, it really can't be disputed that this has happened in the US as the result of an organized and orchestrated, top-down propaganda campaign that was conceived a couple decades ago and sunk its tentacles deep into every corner of the nation's media/education communication complex. Russia is right to ensure that a social change of that magnitude doesn't happen as a result of elites seizing control of the public discourse, which is so easy to do in the US.
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Postby Tsar » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:25 am

I support Putin and I agree that everything he says is reasonable. He is working to make Russia the greatest country on Earth. It's one of the only European countries that is resisting the negative Western influences. Russia has many natural resources, undeveloped farmland, natural gas, and oil. It easily has independence and doesn't really need to rely on any other country. America wants to keep it's hegemony which is why it wants to remove Assad, subvert Ukraine, put a missile shield near Russia, remove Kim Jong-un from power, have a regime change in Iran, and exploit other nations that resist America. America is also becoming more afraid of China which is why they are increasing their presence in South Korea.
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Postby Wolfeye » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:03 am

You know something? When there were all kinds of other things going on in America, they started going on & on about the gays. Now it seems when there's things going on in other countries, they're going on & on here about these other countries & how they are with the gays- like the same thing at a distance. They don't want to talk about anything else, it's all about the gays.

I also find it odd that they'd be imprisoning someone for being gay or allegedly being gay (I'd be quite concerned about rumors or stupid interpretations getting someone locked-up, it's not like that's ever happened in Russia). There's plenty of official gay shit that goes on in that setting, never mind unofficial. The story about what happened to those girls in that rock band was pretty bad & plenty of things like that happen in the U.S. to men & women. That doesn't mean that it's not a problem a country could just solve on it's own as it's own situation, without being a supporter of one party or another.

I worry very much that America is going to turn into a passive-aggressive version of the Nazi Reich. I don't know how Europe will go, but it seems that America is somewhat dragging them down with it (and that Muslims are getting to be more & more of a problem- instead of treating people like equals, they treat them like servants & claim it's opression for someone else to counteract that). I think Russia & the other areas that America demonizes are only demonized because they in some way are not servile to America, because quite a few of America's allies have done horrible things & it wasn't grounds to cast them in that light.
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Postby OutWest » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:52 am

gsjackson wrote:
Tsar wrote:The US and EU are targeting Russian allies. Assad in Syria and Yanukovych in Ukraine were allies with Russia. It's about destabilizing the two countries and causing problems for Russia. Russia is a good country, with strong opportunities for growth, and growing religion. It is against feminism, homosexuality, and is with China in abandoning the US dollar. I am rooting for Assad and Yanukovych because they are pro-Russian and anti-West. Anywhere the US or the EU goes is soon decaying and collapsing. Anywhere the IMF goes becomes more in ruins and the local population suffers.


Agreed. It's interesting to watch the demonization in the US of Russia and Putin, a politician whose every utterance has sounded perfectly reasonable to me. With Arab terrorists keeping a low profile, Chavez gone and Fidel fading from the scene, guess there was a need for a new bogeyman to keep those military-industrial complex dollars flowing.

I've agreed with Putin on virtually every issue where he's butted heads with Obama and other fathead American pols, among them Georgia, Syria, Snowden, the nature of American exceptionalism, an American missile defense shield on Russia's border, Ukraine and gay propaganda. As to the latter, whatever you views may be on whether homosexuality should be normalized, it really can't be disputed that this has happened in the US as the result of an organized and orchestrated, top-down propaganda campaign that was conceived a couple decades ago and sunk its tentacles deep into every corner of the nation's media/education communication complex. Russia is right to ensure that a social change of that magnitude doesn't happen as a result of elites seizing control of the public discourse, which is so easy to do in the US.


I might disagree with Putin regarding his crushing and intimidation dissent, but overall he is head
and shoulders above the current US regime. He actually has intelligence. When Obama contemplates
meeting Putin, he sees a photo-op. Putin sees lunch. Both Putin and Germany's Merkel can hardly conceal their contempt for Obama, or for Hillary Dimwit when she cluelessly toured the world.

The so called "Gay Rights" campaign, has as you say, been orchestrated for decades and it very very important to elites in their attempt to remake US society. Putin, and Russians in general are not falling for it, and American propeller heads are furious. Snowden exposed the criminality of
the elites using the NSA and others for their devious totalitarian plans. We should be building a of statue the man, not prosecuting him.

"elites seizing control of the public discourse, which is so easy to do in the US."

A very useful technique for those with totalitarian ambitions. I hope to see those scenes from Kiev
repeated someday as these same US elites flee for their lives.

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Postby Taco » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:35 am

Here's the real reason Ukrainians are rioting, its never mentioned in the media. Their currency has been crashing the last few months.

Ukrainian Hryvna Chart
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from= ... SD&view=1Y

Bank Runs Begin In Ukraine
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-2 ... ts-lending
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Postby gsjackson » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:13 am

OutWest wrote: When Obama contemplates
meeting Putin, he sees a photo-op. Putin sees lunch.

I hope to see those scenes from Kiev
repeated someday as these same US elites flee for their lives.

Outwest


Great turn of phrase in the first two sentences. Amen to the third.
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Postby publicduende » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:05 pm

The only heroism of Ukrainian people is the heroic naivety with which they are supporting a regime change for reasons they think have to do with them, their freedom and their well being. Just like every revolution. Too bad reality is another. Agenda is another. The master minds are elsewhere, West.
As soon as the Sochi party will be over, Putin will have a very pressing choice to make: pretend that having the US/EU geopolitical game at his very doorsteps (unlike with Syria) isn't going to hurt, or face it and do something about it. In the latter case, it won't be pretty. No, no. no.
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Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:56 pm

From what I understand, the media is portraying this as the Ukraine being pulled between Russia and the EU, but that is an oversimplification. Sure, event that touched off the violence was Yanukovych's backing out of signing the EU association agreement, but that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

People close to events in Kyiv tell me the person on the street does not care about that. People there were fed up with quasi-dictatorship, a plummeted economy, and rampant plunder of public treasure.

Also, I do not see this as a revolution so much as an uprising leading to the deposing of a reviled leader. But rest assured, the final chapter has not been written on this. Russia will not stand by idly and watch its sphere of influence diminished. I would not be surprised if Russia rolled troops into eastern Ukraine and annexed it.
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Postby gsjackson » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:59 pm

publicduende wrote:The only heroism of Ukrainian people is the heroic naivety with which they are supporting a regime change for reasons they think have to do with them, their freedom and their well being. Just like every revolution. Too bad reality is another. Agenda is another. The master minds are elsewhere, West.
As soon as the Sochi party will be over, Putin will have a very pressing choice to make: pretend that having the US/EU geopolitical game at his very doorsteps (unlike with Syria) isn't going to hurt, or face it and do something about it. In the latter case, it won't be pretty. No, no. no.


I hadn't thought about that -- interesting how the coup was engineered to come to a head while Putin was distracted in Sochi. Agree upcoming events not likely to be pretty.
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Postby Tsar » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:51 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:But rest assured, the final chapter has not been written on this. Russia will not stand by idly and watch its sphere of influence diminished. I would not be surprised if Russia rolled troops into eastern Ukraine and annexed it.


Russia must not allow it's sphere of influence to be diminished. Eastern Ukraine is also the most productive region of Ukraine and favors close ties with Russia. I don't believe that Russia would allow Ukraine to join the West. Russia wouldn't want the EU at it's doorstep.
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:07 pm

Tsar wrote:The US and EU are targeting Russian allies. Assad in Syria and Yanukovych in Ukraine were allies with Russia. It's about destabilizing the two countries and causing problems for Russia. Russia is a good country, with strong opportunities for growth, and growing religion. It is against feminism, homosexuality, and is with China in abandoning the US dollar. I am rooting for Assad and Yanukovych because they are pro-Russian and anti-West. Anywhere the US or the EU goes is soon decaying and collapsing. Anywhere the IMF goes becomes more in ruins and the local population suffers.

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