FSU girls not marriage/relationship material

[TopSpruce]

I agree with this 100% European women are gorgeous and there are pockets of great women. But i think its a crap shoot finding a genuine one you can trust. Filipina's have a great reputation as being some of the finest wives and women in the world...

All European countries put women on a pedestal and worship them that's why they make shitty girlfriends and wives, they will never submit to their husbands. Filipinas on the other hand don't get any special treatment that's why they are generally happy to help their man in any way possible.

That logic makes sense. However, there are pockets in Europe where the mindset you mentioned isn't given toward women...not to mention being poor or in a shithole country makes a person respect and understand and appreciate what they have. I think some women who have nothing and live in some of these shit hole countries will appreciate a man taking them away from there. The more simple life they have...the better off in the head and less spoiled they will be. One thing is for sure, Filipinas dont want to go back to Phil once they leave.....that is almost for sure...

See, most Ukrainians and Belarussians want to stay in their country, even in their current city.
I know some are planning to leave for economic reasons, but they do so slowly and deliberately, without looking for a man to help them (ie getting an education that will allow them to work abroad). So, the best option is probably to move there and stay there...however, even then most girls do not see foreigners as superior to local men, or men as truly necessary. So, while it may be possible to land a great looking woman, she will likely divorce you just like she would a local man due to the high divorce rate. FSU women are not very religious or concerned with morals. They will often do what they think advances their own self interest...even though they may be doing themselves harm by not being more traditional and faithful.

There's been discussion on another thread about Russian women liking or creating drama, craving a very strong man, etc, and tolerating or even expecting a slap or two. Grand conflict and grand romantic gestures as well.

I did experience this myself with one lady.

Question: regarding divorce rate... did you see any sign that the SOB-type dominant guys were MORE successful over there in keeping their relationships intact?

Yes, I experienced that myself. Most men there are of that type.

I met a girl in the stolovaya one time and was dominant with her. She gave me the "f**k me" eyes and her VK info, but when I messaged her the boyfriend replied. Apparently she likes to cheat so he keeps a watch on her. I think its pretty common for the girls to cheat, even on their aggressive and dominant boyfriends. There is no religion or moral authority to keep cheating from happening. In traditional societies, girls face social ostracization and guilt for sinning against a higher power.

I talked to my ex-gf in Belarus and she was unhappy with he current boyfriend (not dominant enough). She was telling me how he was planning a trip with her to the EU. I guess the guy was late 20s(she was 22). So, any guy with some cash and dominance can meet girls a few years younger than himself, but not much chance of holding on. Keep in my that you need fluent Russian (I can read Chekov in the original and studied Russian for several years). Otherwise, you are relegated to English speakers which is a small group. None of my girlfriends spoke conversation level English.

The weather is usually pretty bad though...like the northern US, but less sunlight. I found Crimea and Odessa to be great, but the girls were some of the most spoiled and difficult in the FSU.
Minsk, Kiev, and Kharkov are pretty cold but nice and livable cities. Unfortunately, anti-foreigner sentiment is pretty high in all 3 of those cities due to the decades of sex tourists arriving from all over. Western Belarus was my favorite, but no job opportunities unless you aspire to pack boxes in the factory. Western Ukraine is reputed to be good, probably one of the better areas to settle in, but you will need to learn Ukrainian.

Regarding rudeness, yes its present. I never felt the need to say иди на хер or иди на хуй (equivalent of suck my dick in English) when in the US, but I said it at least once a week in Belarus. Ukraine was a lot better in that regard...though it may have been that I interacted with different types of people in Ukraine. I remember on the Ukrainian trains I actually got to meet people and had pleasant experiences. On the Belarussian trains I either got silence and stares or some xenophobic propaganda spewed at me. On the Ukrainian train a guy shared a sandwich with me and talked...people had good times.

[Jester]

Relationships are mainly about power and control. The belief in equality, sharing power, and love above all else is a modern them. There can only be one dominant individual in the relationship and the other must be submissive. The moment that power-dynamic ends then there will be chaos and nothing holds the relationship together. So the point isn't to be weak, to give in, or to let her believe that He as a Man needs her, but to make her know that he has the power, she can choose to obey and stay with him, or he will leave her and replace Her with a new girl that will be better. Reward her only when she deserves it, otherwise punish her, withhold gifts, and make her know that she must continue to earn her place in the relationship. Then she will look up to the man, see him as dominant and aggressive, maybe want to stay because he's in control, and she will want it more because he's not throwing himself at her like he's desperate. The moment a man is desperate he loses (willingly abandons, or forfeits) all power and hands it to the girl.

+1

[Jester]

Haha, I on 3 occasions tried to get my girlfriends there to go to church. One girl was not interested (she was fairly shy) but she was spiritual. Another, agreed to go with me (she claimed to be Orthodox) but got bored after a few weeks. Can you believe it? She got bored and stopped. The third girl was younger (21). I took this one to a church and she lasted for 45 minutes but then became incredibly bored and desperate to leave. I think she sporadically attended on her own, but then stopped after this "phase" passed.

Can you believe this? I as a USA raised man am more religious and patient than most FSU girls. I could actually see myself converting to a religion and attending ceremonies weekly. I have the patience and discipline for it. Most FSU girls don't have the patience for religion, let alone any faith.

You have my sincere respect for trying.

I cry inside for a woman who would enjoy going to church with me, worshipping God, meeting quality people and making friends, building a social network (community) into which children could be introduced.

[TopSpruce]

Haha, I on 3 occasions tried to get my girlfriends there to go to church. One girl was not interested (she was fairly shy) but she was spiritual. Another, agreed to go with me (she claimed to be Orthodox) but got bored after a few weeks. Can you believe it? She got bored and stopped. The third girl was younger (21). I took this one to a church and she lasted for 45 minutes but then became incredibly bored and desperate to leave. I think she sporadically attended on her own, but then stopped after this "phase" passed.

Can you believe this? I as a USA raised man am more religious and patient than most FSU girls. I could actually see myself converting to a religion and attending ceremonies weekly. I have the patience and discipline for it. Most FSU girls don't have the patience for religion, let alone any faith.

You have my sincere respect for trying.

I cry inside for a woman who would enjoy going to church with me, worshipping God, meeting quality people and making friends, building a social network (community) into which children could be introduced.

Yes.

This is why I am interested in converting to Islam. Or Perhaps finding authentic Christians in the Philippines or Ethiopia.

There is almost no authentic sense of community or religion in the West or in the FSU. What little there is left is fast eroding. There are still good places out there..I have met some traditional people who showed me that it is still possible.

[Guyver]

TopSpruce, what were your experiences in Poland? I thought those people were supposed to be among some of the friendliest, and the women the most devoted in marriage and religious.

[TopSpruce]

Poland is doing a copy/paste of American culture. Lots of fast food and increasing obesity. Girls in Western Belarus were much friendlier compared to Polish girls. Furthermore, marriage and childbirth rates are plummeting in Poland as is church attendance amongst the young. In 5-10 years it will be no better than Western Europe. Currently, Western FSU is better (especially Western Belarus and probably Western Ukraine).

[Thordeus]

TopSpruce,

I too am quite alarmed by your findings. Just like you, I'm hoping to find a traditional woman to marry some day and I'm from a north european country which culturally is a part of the so called "west". My faith is weaker than I'd like but I still believe in strong morals and that is what I want in her together with just a more traditional outlook on life. You know, that she values marriage, children etc more than career. That cheating and other grave immoralities are extreme no-no's for the both of us.

Did you ever go to Russia? After reading you experiences in Belarus, Poland, Ukraine and Moldova, my faith in Russia is starting to deteriorate as it is likely to have much in common with those countries. I was kind of hoping that things would be different than in the west if I went to Russia and outside of Moscow/St Petersburg. Like if I went to Siberia or the Russian Far East?

But I also fear that it's as you say. That their objection to the lack of morals in the west is mostly talk and that they don't offer a real alternative.

While I'm not unsympathetic to the east asian look in women, I prefer white as that is my own kind and I kind of want to be able to blend in if I move there which is impossible for me in China/Japan/South Korea (and even there, I'm not sure the youngest generations are much better than in the west). Many here mentioned the Philippines but I personally don't get great associations when thinking of that country.

Any thoughts?

[TopSpruce]

TopSpruce,

I too am quite alarmed by your findings. Just like you, I'm hoping to find a traditional woman to marry some day and I'm from a north european country which culturally is a part of the so called "west". My faith is weaker than I'd like but I still believe in strong morals and that is what I want in her together with just a more traditional outlook on life. You know, that she values marriage, children etc more than career. That cheating and other grave immoralities are extreme no-no's for the both of us.

Did you ever go to Russia? After reading you experiences in Belarus, Poland, Ukraine and Moldova, my faith in Russia is starting to deteriorate as it is likely to have much in common with those countries. I was kind of hoping that things would be different than in the west if I went to Russia and outside of Moscow/St Petersburg. Like if I went to Siberia or the Russian Far East?

But I also fear that it's as you say. That their objection to the lack of morals in the west is mostly talk and that they don't offer a real alternative.

While I'm not unsympathetic to the east asian look in women, I prefer white as that is my own kind and I kind of want to be able to blend in if I move there which is impossible for me in China/Japan/South Korea (and even there, I'm not sure the youngest generations are much better than in the west). Many here mentioned the Philippines but I personally don't get great associations when thinking of that country.

Any thoughts?

Thordeus,
I met some Russian girls and I found them to be very similar to Eastern Ukrainian girls, and perhaps more materialistic, trendy, and modern.

Some have had good results in Siberia. I'm sure if you moved to a small town in rural Siberia you could find a pocket of traditionalism. Russia is the largest country in the world and there are some pretty isolated places there. However, I'm not sure they would accept you. I found that the further east I went, the less accepting of foreigners they were. Some ethnic Russians in Kharkov and Sevastopol were nationalistic and even xenophobic.

Also, would you be able to live in Siberia? From what I've heard its a pretty desolate place with extreme cold. I guess if you have a lot of indoor hobbies it could work out well.

Regarding Moldova, I noticed that the ethnic Romanians were much more welcoming, so you could give that a try.

However, the most traditional people in the FSU are without a doubt the central Asian peoples. But, they are not exactly all that welcoming either. Plus, the economies there are pretty bad so you couldn't really live well there. Forget about trying to import a woman....only the least traditional women will abandon their family and country to move abroad. If you want a good woman you need to be prepared to live in her country.

Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan are 2 good options. Tajikistan has better women and more traditional women, possibly available if you convert to the local religion. Kyrgyzstan is more secular and the weather is colder, but I have heard more trip reports from there. Probably, central Asia would be best. However, Tajik girls have a much more European look to them (similar to Persian girls). They are a very tribal group of people so I don't know if integrating there would be possible.

But, if you're going to go for Asian looking women, you might as well consider the Philippines. With its growing economy, I'm sure you could set up a good career and your children would be well off financially(it is predicted to be one of the largest economies in the world by 2050).

Coming back to the topic of Russia/Ukraine/Belarus, I would forget about those countries if you are looking for an early 20s girl for marriage and family. Check out RUAdventures forum to see why. There are reports of men who married in the 1990s/early 2000s and had children..but then the marriage ended. A recent post on that forum was a man saying he was giving up on finding a second wife in the FSU after another try. Best of luck to you on your search.

[Tsar]

Russian and Ukrainian Spring Breaks are just like America's Spring Breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRToW4LjIwc (lot's of topless girls and grinding, maybe some duck faces and hanging with a lot of different guys)

Xhamster has a lot of explicit amateur Kazantip videos.

That's why I believe finding any good woman older than 18 (after she's a legal adult away from parents) is impossible. It's only 15-17 for me from now on. After hearing about more honesty reports and seeing the evidence of just how Westernized the younger generations are everywhere in the world, there is little chance of getting what I want the typical "go out and date" or the standard way most people meet. I need to find a girl around 16 that hasn't slept around and been promiscuous.

The undeniable truth is that promiscuity is rampant everywhere. Either a man of my generation (1990s) can accept a promiscuous whore or be similar to Doug Hutchinson and marry a 16 year old girl. I plan on being just like Doug Hutchinson and marrying a 16 year old foreign girl.

I am completely turned off by college girls because they are whores. College girls everywhere are promiscuous whores and fornicators.

I agree 100% with TopSpruce now. The FSU girls of my generations are just as bad as the American girls or any Western girls when it comes to being fornicators and whores. I didn't think it was that bad because many studies from 2010 or 2012 said that 33%-50% of girls were virgins when they graduated high school and 50%-60% were virgins at 16. Maybe the studies weren't accurate or maybe the studies were accurate but 2-4 years makes a major difference in quality. Age 16 has better quality virgin girls while Age 20 has mostly fornicating sluts.

[Thordeus]

Thordeus,
I met some Russian girls and I found them to be very similar to Eastern Ukrainian girls, and perhaps more materialistic, trendy, and modern.

Some have had good results in Siberia. I'm sure if you moved to a small town in rural Siberia you could find a pocket of traditionalism. Russia is the largest country in the world and there are some pretty isolated places there. However, I'm not sure they would accept you. I found that the further east I went, the less accepting of foreigners they were. Some ethnic Russians in Kharkov and Sevastopol were nationalistic and even xenophobic.

You don't even think they'd accept a white man? I'll fit in, they just need to give me some time to adjust

Also, would you be able to live in Siberia? From what I've heard its a pretty desolate place with extreme cold. I guess if you have a lot of indoor hobbies it could work out well.

My hobbies are quite outdoor-centric but I'm used to cold. Just not the extreme cold Siberia is infamous for.

Regarding Moldova, I noticed that the ethnic Romanians were much more welcoming, so you could give that a try.

I've only met one moldavian (ethnic romanian) and she was very international to an extreme degree. But I hope the ones who are not leaving their own country is different Like you say, the traditional ones generally don't leave.

However, the most traditional people in the FSU are without a doubt the central Asian peoples. But, they are not exactly all that welcoming either. Plus, the economies there are pretty bad so you couldn't really live well there. Forget about trying to import a woman....only the least traditional women will abandon their family and country to move abroad. If you want a good woman you need to be prepared to live in her country.

Indeed, I'm prepared. I'm just hoping it will be a country where you can make a good and honest living and a country with a culture I'd like.
Another reason for not "importing" is that the ones who come to the west often become very westernized quickly... defeating the whole point of searching for someone from another culture.

Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan are 2 good options. Tajikistan has better women and more traditional women, possibly available if you convert to the local religion. Kyrgyzstan is more secular and the weather is colder, but I have heard more trip reports from there. Probably, central Asia would be best. However, Tajik girls have a much more European look to them (similar to Persian girls). They are a very tribal group of people so I don't know if integrating there would be possible.

Thanks for the tips. I will consider them. But I hear the EU is sadly doing it's best to sponsor different projects in central Asia to make those cultures like the west with the radical feminism etc.

But, if you're going to go for Asian looking women, you might as well consider the Philippines. With its growing economy, I'm sure you could set up a good career and your children would be well off financially(it is predicted to be one of the largest economies in the world by 2050).

I may have to consider it, but so far I've found the japanese/chinese/korean women more attractive. But I'll look into it. Perhaps the Philippines has more to offer than I imagine.

Coming back to the topic of Russia/Ukraine/Belarus, I would forget about those countries if you are looking for an early 20s girl for marriage and family. Check out RUAdventures forum to see why. There are reports of men who married in the 1990s/early 2000s and had children..but then the marriage ended. A recent post on that forum was a man saying he was giving up on finding a second wife in the FSU after another try. Best of luck to you on your search.

I'm very sad to hear that. It feels like my final hope has been crushed. The final hope for a good white lady that is. Asian is still possible though

[TopSpruce]

Russian and Ukrainian Spring Breaks are just like America's Spring Breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRToW4LjIwc (lot's of topless girls and grinding, maybe some duck faces and hanging with a lot of different guys)

Xhamster has a lot of explicit amateur Kazantip videos.

That's why I believe finding any good woman older than 18 (after she's a legal adult away from parents) is impossible. It's only 15-17 for me from now on. After hearing about more honesty reports and seeing the evidence of just how Westernized the younger generations are everywhere in the world, there is little chance of getting what I want the typical "go out and date" or the standard way most people meet. I need to find a girl around 16 that hasn't slept around and been promiscuous.

The undeniable truth is that promiscuity is rampant everywhere. Either a man of my generation (1990s) can accept a promiscuous whore or be similar to Doug Hutchinson and marry a 16 year old girl. I plan on being just like Doug Hutchinson and marrying a 16 year old foreign girl.

I am completely turned off by college girls because they are whores. College girls everywhere are promiscuous whores and fornicators.

I agree 100% with TopSpruce now. The FSU girls of my generations are just as bad as the American girls or any Western girls when it comes to being fornicators and whores. I didn't think it was that bad because many studies from 2010 or 2012 said that 33%-50% of girls were virgins when they graduated high school and 50%-60% were virgins at 16. Maybe the studies weren't accurate or maybe the studies were accurate but 2-4 years makes a major difference in quality. Age 16 has better quality virgin girls while Age 20 has mostly fornicating sluts.

Yeah, sure its possible that 33% of girls are virgins at high school graduation. But how many attractive girls are virgins at high school graduation? The ones that are least attractive (fat/disfigured/mentally ill) are the ones that are least likely to get male suitors and least likely to have sex. If you look at the girls that are attractive its much worse.
I mean normal attractiveness, I have no aspirations to date a model. Some people want a girl who is super tall, with big breasts, and super hot face. I'll settle for a girl who is reasonably attractive and loyal, kind, and feminine. I saw some of these girls in the FSU...but there are very few of them.... not enough that getting them would be likely.

[Thordeus]

Russian and Ukrainian Spring Breaks are just like America's Spring Breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRToW4LjIwc (lot's of topless girls and grinding, maybe some duck faces and hanging with a lot of different guys)

Xhamster has a lot of explicit amateur Kazantip videos.

That's why I believe finding any good woman older than 18 (after she's a legal adult away from parents) is impossible. It's only 15-17 for me from now on. After hearing about more honesty reports and seeing the evidence of just how Westernized the younger generations are everywhere in the world, there is little chance of getting what I want the typical "go out and date" or the standard way most people meet. I need to find a girl around 16 that hasn't slept around and been promiscuous.

The undeniable truth is that promiscuity is rampant everywhere. Either a man of my generation (1990s) can accept a promiscuous whore or be similar to Doug Hutchinson and marry a 16 year old girl. I plan on being just like Doug Hutchinson and marrying a 16 year old foreign girl.

I am completely turned off by college girls because they are whores. College girls everywhere are promiscuous whores and fornicators.

I agree 100% with TopSpruce now. The FSU girls of my generations are just as bad as the American girls or any Western girls when it comes to being fornicators and whores. I didn't think it was that bad because many studies from 2010 or 2012 said that 33%-50% of girls were virgins when they graduated high school and 50%-60% were virgins at 16. Maybe the studies weren't accurate or maybe the studies were accurate but 2-4 years makes a major difference in quality. Age 16 has better quality virgin girls while Age 20 has mostly fornicating sluts.

I'm slightly older than you so 16 year olds are starting to feel way to young for me unless they are extraordinarily mature (which I hope they are in more traditional cultures). The problem with so young is also that you risk them changing quite a lot. An older woman is already "formed" so you know more what you'll get in terms of personality, interests etc.. She is not likely to change as drastically unless you introduce radical influences (like moving her to the U.S or similar).

There has to become a sort of backlash against this whole western hedonistic way of life and I feel it is forming even in the west (but they/we are called extremists of all sorts by the elite). It may however take a long time before it takes over and we can't wait too long to form families.

[TopSpruce]

The sad fact is, the society does not support family values. We in the west tend to thing that individuals are what matter...but the truth is we have much less free will than we would like to believe. Our societies shape us. This is the reason why a Chinese man born in the US and one born in rural China behave completely differently. This is a reason that a woman born in London would have made an excellent wife in 1714...but not in 2014. Did the genetics of the population change that dramatically? NO! The culture changed.

The key is to find a society that truly supports family values.
I'm pretty sure Russia is not that place. The government of the Soviet Union also rewarded women for many births...but few of the European Soviet citizens received that award. Most recipients of Soviet awards for childbirth were from the caucuses and central asia.

The elites in the USSR despised those people and even tried to curb their birth rates. Putin has similar policies to the ex-soviet leaders. He wants a modern, powerful state....and the welfare of the people is secondary to the needs of the state.

The only reason the FSU was a good place in the 1990s was that the government collapsed and there was a reversion to traditional values. Putin calls the collapse of the soviet union a great tragedy...I think it was one of the greatest moments in world history. It was time when the state whithered away, old traditions returned, muslims rebelled in Tajikistan.... Ukrainians reopened churches...women got married to those men who had real jobs and not silly state supported industries.


There are still plenty of countries with attractive, traditional women in 2014....you just have to go out there and take the risk to find them.

The FSU is not that place... it is a polluted, over fished pond.

[TopSpruce]

Indeed, I'm prepared. I'm just hoping it will be a country where you can make a good and honest living and a country with a culture I'd like.

How do you plan on making a good living?
This is the difficult part.

I speak fluent Russian and can fit in to the culture....but if I do that I can't make myself stand out. Girls care about money...they want a man who can provide safety, stability, and comfort for her and her family. Do you know any way to have a decent salary in the FSU? I think it would be far easier for me to train in the medical profession and then live in an African or Asian country. In these places, medical professionals are respected and can earn good salaries.

In the FSU, most medical professionals earn poor salaries, except for dentists (and some types of surgeon). It is possible that a dentist living in central Asia might have a good life.

Other professions don't seem too easy. Lawyers and businessmen are not an option unless you have connections. Farming is an option if you have enough money to invest...but it is also a risk as your land or property can always be damaged or stolen. You would need at least several years experience in farming and 50,000 dollars to start a decent farm. This is a good option still.

Teaching English or other languages is not a long term solution...that is quickly fading as more natives learn languages in many places.

Online work is what a bunch of foolish people do. They will eventually lose their jobs since the competition will rise for those positions. If it is easy to get into a field....then it is easy for someone else to take your job. Anyone can go online and work as a programmer or write e-books or do customer support over the internet. Sure, there is money and work now, but what will you do in 10 years when there are millions more computer programmers, customer service agents, and internet writers willing to do the same job in 1/2 the time for 1/4 the pay??

[ladislav]

They were marriage material back in the old days. I guess now things are different. In my parents' time women there were excellent. Maybe one would do better going to smaller towns? Where people do not speak English ( or even Russian)

Anyway, I'm not doing it and maybe we should all just stick with the Philippines.