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I don't think that they are as bad as you say if a man gets them while they're young. I personally would be going for 15-18. The truth is that no women with a lot of freedom and a career will need a man. I want her to not want to work, not really want a career, and to be dependent on me. If she wants to work then she could be my assistant if I have my own business.

Also, if she is very experienced or has dated a lot of men before, then no man will really be as special. It's also true that many of the good girls don't want to leave their country (or they don't want to leave mainland Europe). So many of the ones that are willing to move to America probably do want a better career, more jobs, will eventually divorce, a green card, and then a small minority might be doing it because they value the love or special relationship with the man above remaining with their family.

I personally would be willing to relocate abroad but I would only do that after I have enough money to live and spend most days having fun as a couple.

Relationships are mainly about power and control. The belief in equality, sharing power, and love above all else is a modern them. There can only be one dominant individual in the relationship and the other must be submissive. The moment that power-dynamic ends then there will be chaos and nothing holds the relationship together. So the point isn't to be weak, to give in, or to let her believe that He as a Man needs her, but to make her know that he has the power, she can choose to obey and stay with him, or he will leave her and replace Her with a new girl that will be better. Reward her only when she deserves it, otherwise punish her, withhold gifts, and make her know that she must continue to earn her place in the relationship. Then she will look up to the man, see him as dominant and aggressive, maybe want to stay because he's in control, and she will want it more because he's not throwing himself at her like he's desperate. The moment a man is desperate he loses (willingly abandons, or forfeits) all power and hands it to the girl.

Tsar wrote:I don't think that they are as bad as you say if a man gets them while they're young. I personally would be going for 15-18. The truth is that no women with a lot of freedom and a career will need a man. I want her to not want to work, not really want a career, and to be dependent on me. If she wants to work then she could be my assistant if I have my own business.

Also, if she is very experienced or has dated a lot of men before, then no man will really be as special. It's also true that many of the good girls don't want to leave their country (or they don't want to leave mainland Europe). So many of the ones that are willing to move to America probably do want a better career, more jobs, will eventually divorce, a green card, and then a small minority might be doing it because they value the love or special relationship with the man above remaining with their family.

I personally would be willing to relocate abroad but I would only do that after I have enough money to live and spend most days having fun as a couple.

Relationships are mainly about power and control. The belief in equality, sharing power, and love above all else is a modern them. There can only be one dominant individual in the relationship and the other must be submissive. The moment that power-dynamic ends then there will be chaos and nothing holds the relationship together. So the point isn't to be weak, to give in, or to let her believe that He as a Man needs her, but to make her know that he has the power, she can choose to obey and stay with him, or he will leave her and replace Her with a new girl that will be better. Reward her only when she deserves it, otherwise punish her, withhold gifts, and make her know that she must continue to earn her place in the relationship. Then she will look up to the man, see him as dominant and aggressive, maybe want to stay because he's in control, and she will want it more because he's not throwing himself at her like he's desperate. The moment a man is desperate he loses (willingly abandons, or forfeits) all power and hands it to the girl.

I saw the youngest ones (18 year olds) were the worst. They were most exposed to modern culture through TV and internet. They were the ones most likely to cheat on a guy.

Where do you think you will find such girls? The villages are mostly empty and the residents are protective and notice outsiders quickly.

In the cities, young people flock to entertainment centers just like those in the West. No one there gets married at those young ages. Why do you think they will marry you if its not in their culture? The local men won't marry girls at that early age, so why do you think you are better?
Also, if you wait to save up money for going later it will be even worse. The culture is modernizing rapidly and its gaining pace. Do you even speak Russian? I did and still had a hard time understanding the 18 year olds. They talk with their own slang just like teens in the US.
Do you think you are dominant enough? How will you convey this without being fluent in both the language and youth culture? Go ahead an message some girls on VKontakte ....see what kind of responses you receive.

TopSpruce wrote:Go ahead an message some girls on VKontakte ....see what kind of responses you receive.

I messaged them back in the autumn of 2012. It's filled with many fake profiles, fake images, low replies (just as bad as American dating sites; 30 messages, maybe 5 replies and those didn't go anywhere), and the entire social networking to meet people is not something I will do. I won't meet the girl for me on the internet. I would go in person and arrange a situation where it demonstrates that I do have power. I'm a Machiavellian so I always want to arrange a situation where I have the majority of the power and I have a few ideas on how I would be able to accomplish my goal. I personally wouldn't accept any girl or even waste my time with a girl that would have poor probabilities of meeting my criteria. There is nothing I would hate more than spending money dating a girl only to discover she was not a virgin.

"There is a growing tendency for Ukrainian youth to become involved in sexual intercourse at an earlier age. According to studies conducted in large industrial cities among the students at professional high schools, more than 50% of the women and 80% of the men have engaged in sexual activity before age 17.5. In 1980, the average age of first sexual experience was 19 years for men and 20 for women. According to survey data, more than 50% of teenagers are sexually active with at least three partners before the age of 20. For most of teenagers, sex exists as a curiosity that may involve a kind of commitment, but not love and passionate feelings.

Ukrainian teenagers usually plan their nearest future with the creation of their own families, as the median age for marriage is now 19 to 21 years for females and 21 to 23 for males. .....about 45% of young couples are divorced within the first year of their marriage."



This was from 2003. If in 2003 the age of first sex was near 17, imagine what it is now, a decade later?

How can you expect to fight an entire society? She will watch and learn from what others around her are doing. If half her friends get divorced after 1 year of marriage, why do you think she will not do the same?

Also, Vkontakte does not have many fake profiles. That is a social network site like facebook which most girls use, even those in villages. If you are finding fake profiles you are clicking on the wrong type of picture. Girls with normal appearances(no fake tits or excessive makeup) are usually real.

If they don't agree to meet you on Vkontakte, where do you plan on meeting them? In parks, cafes, and stores? Sure, they will talk with you and maybe even give you a phone number...but then they will have the power to choose whether or not to answer your phone call.

Don't you think the local guys are asking her out as well?
The only virgin I ever met in the FSU..(and that's a possible virgin, not 100% sure) was 18 years old and very fat. If she's attractive and friendly, she will have all her schoolmates asking her out.

What about Putin's conservative Russia and Patriach Kirill the Russian Orthodox Church fighting against homosexuality and negative Western influences?

The news articles and youtube videos mentioned that a record number of churches were opening in Russia. How can that be explained if more Russians aren't becoming religious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOzBdx1S9v8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDZ_TPAC5MA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk0LzfhSyfE

Record numbers of churches have opened...but they are all empty.

Tons of churches on every street. People stop in for 5 minutes once a week, maybe drop off some donations. But, no one stays for the services and no one actually lives their lives according to religion.

Look at a realistic picture of demograpbics:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomani ... -americas/


America's birth rate has dropped(it wasn't that great to begin with) and Russia's has increased(it was horrible in the 1990s). What does that mean?

Well, both countries have very low birth rates if judged by world standards. Look at a place like Yemen or Ethiopia and you have people who have 3,4,5, or 6 children. In Russia and the USA its now more like 2 kids. (in 1990s Russia it was probably near 1.5 kid per family and 1990s USA was 2.5...now both are near 2).

I don't see any huge revival in Russian religion. Yes, its a more religious country than it was under communism, but that's like saying a one-eyed 80 year old man has good eyesight compared to a blind man. Russia was once one of , if not the most atheistic country in the world as the USSR...now its got some more religion, but not much.


Most importantly!!!! Carefully look at the survey below:
In 1991, only 5 percent of Russians were Very or Extremely Religious.
In 1998, that rose to 23 percent.
In 2009, that DROPPED to 11 percent while "somewhat religious" increased.

So, religion in general may be rising, but I don't count "somewhat religious" people as real believers. Those are the type that will identify with a religion because it is culturally popular to do so, much like USA residents who just say "Yeah, I'm Christian" but don't go to church of follow any of the teachings.

Real religious sentiment peaked in Russia in 1998, but has since declined. Now, you are seeing a wave of nationalism and Orthodoxy is the national religion much like State Atheism was the religion of the USSR. People are proud to be Russian and proud to be Orthodox....but they don't actually practice any of it. (Regular Church attendance is non-existent)

Let me add one final note:
The Russian Government is not working towards happiness and family values.

Read this: http://www.eurasiareview.com/02052014-g ... -analysis/

In that link is a basic outline of the Eurasian vision for the future. Nowhere do they talk about happiness of the people...simply advancement of the state.
You can see that the state has no concern for religion or lowering divorce rates. All the state cares about is raising birth rates and marriage rates. It has succeeded in that. Both Belarus and Russia have marriage rates of about 9, while Ukraine has it at about 6. However, once you give the State a child, you are no longer needed. Divorce doesn't matter so much.

Furthermore, although their criticisms of the West are valid in many ways...they offer no real substitute. The speak of the evils of deindustrialization in the former Warsaw pact and Baltic states. Well.. that's natural in the Information Age that supersedes the Industrial Age. Look at China --> although its building its manufacturing base, its also looking to the future and investing in education, IT, research, etc. Eventually, they too will export their industry to poorer countries. Look at it this way...we can build robots that will manufacture most of our products, but its much cheaper just to hire poor foreign workers. If cases where the West didn't export factories overseas, they built robots instead and automated production and chemical processes. Either way, manufacturing jobs are gone. There is simply no need for dozens of uneducated men hammering away at pieces of steel like in the days of Ford. A single machine can do it all. In fact, "Between 1983 and 2005, U.S. exports grew by 340 percent, with exports of manufactured goods increasing by 407 percent". The US still manufactures airplanes, chemicals, electrical equipment, and machinery. China is still a low value added assembly line...but it is transitioning to a knowledge economy.

Perhaps, some of the service industry growth was overblown in the US and a rebalancing is needed. However, the Eurasian model for growth shows no alternative...look at Belarus with its unproductive factories. If they automated those factories and fired half their workers they could probably turn a profit. Looking further East, Russia does not export much at all...besides natural resources.

Finally, lets look at what China can't do. China can't produce brand new medicines, bioengineered crops, new softward programs, or new Airplane and weapons systems. The US and Western Europe still do that. This R&D and high end manufacturing is what China strives for, but is still in the process of attaining. So, there is some truth to the idea of the "post-industrial" economy, but instead of calling it the end of manufacturing, it would be better to call it the switch to high-end manufacturing and R&D. Clearly, Russia is not succeeding in this area. It is neither increasing in basic manufacturing(like China) nor developing R&D + High-end manufacturing.


So, basically, the Russian critique of the West is flawed. The West really is more advanced than Russia. China is more advanced than Russia (and advancing even further). While Russia is trying to advance its society by advancing nationalism and increasing birth rates, it is still lagging behind. Furthermore, these attempts at improving its standing in the world do little to improve the happiness of its citizens. There is no resurgence of traditionalism and family. Birth rates and marriage may be up...but true religion, true family values, lowered divorce rate, all those are not improving.

Look at Belarussian society. The people are not really happy. In fact, I would say they are pretty miserable. Fear of the police/government is present. Standard of living is lower than the eastern EU countries. Families and friendships don't seem present in abundance.
Everything is clean....but at the same time soulless.

I think there must have been a point in civilization where humans had the maximum benefit from technology with the minimum of negatives. Perhaps the Amish level of technology is ideal. Whatever it is, I see that civilization is not advancing towards human happiness... at least not in the short term. Perhaps one day, machines and robots will do all industrial work and people will genetically engineer their brains to remove violence and depression and then society will be full of people working on creating art and music or communing with nature. Or perhaps humanity will simply go extinct in a nuclear war or some plague. Who knows. Clearly, in the short term it is still a competition between nations for dominance and resources. The 90s and early 00's might have been a time of relative ease for some peoples like those in the US and Western Europe. Now, its a time to wake from that reverie and engage in more warfare and competition, most likely. While living in an Amish level of technology would probably be nice, its no practical. Look at the Native Americans and how they were destroyed by the Europeans. Let the nations fight amongst themselves, I won't live like that..as part of some American capitalist system...or as part of some Eurasian state-capitalist system. Either way, it seems a negative way to live for me. I'd rather take the 3rd world option and head to a much less developed country, settle in a rural area, and enjoy peace with nature, some physical labor, and a sense of community and family.


BUT, perhaps that's me. (http://www.wired.com/2010/08/why-russia ... depressed/)
In the link above, it shows the difference in the ways Russians interpret the world. They ruminate, but with emotional distance. So, perhaps Russia and Belarus really are places of extreme negativity and bad things happening...but perhaps their culture helps them to adapt to it better. Still, Belarus, Russia, and Kazakhstan all rank in the top 5 suicide rates in the world (http://themoscownews.com/society/201110 ... 14308.html). But, as a human with an upbringing of a Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic society (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1601785) I have to face the way I am is different. Whatever the case, I do know that plenty of exercise in nice weather, fresh fruits and vegetables, and a good mix of friends/family will probably make me happier.....and those are things I found difficult to obtain in Belarus and the FSU. So, perhaps it is the right place for you.... but I will continue my search.

Religion isn't the most important factor I have. I consider virtues to be important with purity as the most important. As long as I get a girl that's pure that is my greatest factor. Assuming she's not pure then that is one of the traits that will result in her automatic disqualification as a suitable match. Assuming I fail in getting a girl I want to love me from her own freewill then I will use a Machiavellian backup plan to get what I want.

Many people are willing to do corrupt things or be immoral or promiscuous because they have nothing else. When there are more girls than the number of available guys, the girls will be sluttier to keep the guy they do have. It's modern logic and there is no denying that. However, it is possible if a man gets the girl early enough then it is possible to get her when she's still impressionable and able to be influenced.

Tsar wrote:Religion isn't the most important factor I have. I consider virtues to be important with purity as the most important. As long as I get a girl that's pure that is my greatest factor. Assuming she's not pure then that is one of the traits that will result in her automatic disqualification as a suitable match. Assuming I fail in getting a girl I want to love me from her own freewill then I will use a Machiavellian backup plan to get what I want.

Even if you never reach your goal, at least you tried.

I think if you compromise on looks and search in smaller villages you may find what you are looking for.

Good luck trying against someone's free will. At least in Russian prison you will meet interesting people! And with the level of nationalism rising, you won't be given much leniency.

TopSpruce wrote:

Tsar wrote:Religion isn't the most important factor I have. I consider virtues to be important with purity as the most important. As long as I get a girl that's pure that is my greatest factor. Assuming she's not pure then that is one of the traits that will result in her automatic disqualification as a suitable match. Assuming I fail in getting a girl I want to love me from her own freewill then I will use a Machiavellian backup plan to get what I want.

Even if you never reach your goal, at least you tried.

I think if you compromise on looks and search in smaller villages you may find what you are looking for.

Good luck trying against someone's free will. At least in Russian prison you will meet interesting people! And with the level of nationalism rising, you won't be given much leniency.

It's pointless trying and failing or not trying and failing. Either way it's still failure. The only thing that matters is victory and it doesn't matter how that victory is accomplished as long as it is.

Freewill is when a person has the power to reject you and not really suffer any negative consequences. Saving money to bribe the parents to marry their daughter and pay them off to pressure their daughter. Bribe the right people to buy some girl I would raise with the intention of a future marriage. Parents in China do a similar thing by paying parents of a girl to raise the girl with the intention of providing their son with a bride, so paying off the parents of a girl for a bride isn't much different. Most things do have a price and buying a bride isn't any different. Buying a future bride just means the girl is bought when she's below the marriage age and raised properly to be a marriageable girl according to the arranged marriage. When there is too much freedom then the relationship dies because there is no one in control and her options aren't limited. Corruption is very common in many countries and people make a fortune off of it so there's little chance of a long and drawn out plan involving bribery backfiring. Unless the person didn't have any interest in getting a few months or several months pay, there is no risk because I'm sure many people would choose the pay over pure ethics.

Greed and lust are both sins. So if many people in a given society engage in promiscuity or lust, there's a good chance they'll also commit the sin of greed. Almost every country is very greedy so they will choose the money.

Finding an attractive virgin girl for marriage is almost impossible in the modern era so obtaining one using any means necessary is worth it.

TopSpruce wrote:

Enticer wrote:

Taco wrote:

Enticer wrote:

Taco wrote: If you go to Cebu one day your search for the perfect woman will be over and you won't care about knowing the answer to that question.

I agree with this 100% European women are gorgeous and there are pockets of great women. But i think its a crap shoot finding a genuine one you can trust. Filipina's have a great reputation as being some of the finest wives and women in the world...

All European countries put women on a pedestal and worship them that's why they make shitty girlfriends and wives, they will never submit to their husbands. Filipinas on the other hand don't get any special treatment that's why they are generally happy to help their man in any way possible.

That logic makes sense. However, there are pockets in Europe where the mindset you mentioned isn't given toward women...not to mention being poor or in a shithole country makes a person respect and understand and appreciate what they have. I think some women who have nothing and live in some of these shit hole countries will appreciate a man taking them away from there. The more simple life they have...the better off in the head and less spoiled they will be. One thing is for sure, Filipinas dont want to go back to Phil once they leave.....that is almost for sure...

See, most Ukrainians and Belarussians want to stay in their country, even in their current city.
I know some are planning to leave for economic reasons, but they do so slowly and deliberately, without looking for a man to help them (ie getting an education that will allow them to work abroad). So, the best option is probably to move there and stay there...however, even then most girls do not see foreigners as superior to local men, or men as truly necessary. So, while it may be possible to land a great looking woman, she will likely divorce you just like she would a local man due to the high divorce rate. FSU women are not very religious or concerned with morals. They will often do what they think advances their own self interest...even though they may be doing themselves harm by not being more traditional and faithful.

There's been discussion on another thread about Russian women liking or creating drama, craving a very strong man, etc, and tolerating or even expecting a slap or two. Grand conflict and grand romantic gestures as well.

I did experience this myself with one lady.

Question: regarding divorce rate... did you see any sign that the SOB-type dominant guys were MORE successful over there in keeping their relationships intact?

You'll notice Russia is on the most rude country list and the Philippines is on the least rude country list. I wonder why Russian guys go to the Philippines looking for a girlfriend.

Worlds Rudest Countries
http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/life ... ers-309852

Wow, this entire thread has shed some much needed light on what is going on in FSU today with the young women. I was actually going to plan a trip there soon to start meeting the local women in hopes I might find a traditional girl. Damn! If what you guys are saying is true, then I will have no choice but to write-off FSU girls for potential marriage. I am not going to waste my time, money and energy looking for a diamond in a coal mine. Looks like it is time to radically switch gears and start planning on a trip to Cebu, or maybe some place in South America like Columbia.