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The so called "oppression" of Russian speakers.

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.

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The so called "oppression" of Russian speakers.

Postby ladislav » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:32 pm

Some people do not understand what is really going on in the country and what Putin’s strategy is.

He wants to “ protect Russian speakersâ€￾ who are ‘ being oppressed’. Which is total BS.

What is meant by ‘ oppression’ is that a country wants to have education and court/official documents to be in the national language. It also wants main TV channels to be in the national language. And in Eastern Europe/ex-USSR, every country has its own language named by the name of that country.

What happened was that, through the Russians which were moved by Stalin into non-Russian USSR areas, he wanted to colonize them and replace the national languages with Russian on the official level.

He did basically what the English did in Ireland, Scotland, etc. He succeeded, too. Except that now English brings money and success, not Russian.

Now, that these countries are independent they want to return to their original languages in official government affairs. Is this unreasonable?

In daily life, half the country (if not the whole country) speaks Russian, anyway. Just like in Ireland, they all speak English.

Everybody in those countries is a “Russian speakerâ€￾.

Now, who is complaining? Those Russians who were born there or who are citizens and who don’t want any documents, TV channels or official affairs to be in the national language - and who want to be accommodated.

They don’t want to study or speak the national language ( in addition to Russian which everybody speaks, anyway). Ukraine is still not so “badâ€￾, actually.

In Latvia and Estonia you need to pass the language test to be a citizen (birth there is not enough- an Estonian citizen who does not speak Estonian? Hmmm, kind of a non-citizen, don’t you think?) But is that unreasonable?

Putin is just looking for an excuse to invade.

It’s like England invading the Philippines because the Filipinos want main subjects to be taught in Filipino and have birth certificates in Filipino. Or invading Malaysia because they changed signs and TV programs from English to the Bahasa.

Can you imagine?
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Re: The so called "oppression" of Russian speakers

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:45 pm

ladislav wrote:Some people do not understand what is really going on in the country and what Putin’s strategy is.

He wants to “ protect Russian speakersâ€￾ who are ‘ being oppressed’. Which is total BS.

What is meant by ‘ oppression’ is that a country wants to have education and court/official documents to be in the national language. It also wants main TV channels to be in the national language. And in Eastern Europe/ex-USSR, every country has its own language named by the name of that country.

What happened was that, through the Russians which were moved by Stalin into non-Russian USSR areas, he wanted to colonize them and replace the national languages with Russian on the official level.

He did basically what the English did in Ireland, Scotland, etc. He succeeded, too. Except that now English brings money and success, not Russian.

Now, that these countries are independent they want to return to their original languages in official government affairs. Is this unreasonable?

In daily life, half the country (if not the whole country) speaks Russian, anyway. Just like in Ireland, they all speak English.

Everybody in those countries is a “Russian speakerâ€￾.

Now, who is complaining? Those Russians who were born there or who are citizens and who don’t want any documents, TV channels or official affairs to be in the national language - and who want to be accommodated.

They don’t want to study or speak the national language ( in addition to Russian which everybody speaks, anyway). Ukraine is still not so “badâ€￾, actually.

In Latvia and Estonia you need to pass the language test to be a citizen (birth there is not enough- an Estonian citizen who does not speak Estonian? Hmmm, kind of a non-citizen, don’t you think?) But is that unreasonable?

Putin is just looking for an excuse to invade.

It’s like England invading the Philippines because the Filipinos want main subjects to be taught in Filipino and have birth certificates in Filipino. Or invading Malaysia because they changed signs and TV programs from English to the Bahasa.

Can you imagine?


I think Putin also exploits the existence of Russians who were put there by Soviet leadership. I know eastern Ukraine's ethnic Russians were settled there previously. Putin plays that card like a con man. It is an evil, yet brilliant strategy that the US and the West cannot effectively counter.

My personal belief is that Putin will annex SEVERAL Russian-speaking areas near Russia while the US is bogged down with ISIS. Keep an eye on this "Eurasian Customs Union" that Putin wants to impose upon its former Soviet minions.
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Postby fschmidt » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:49 pm

I think all these issues are nonsense. Each state in Ukraine should simply be allowed to vote whether they want to stay in Ukraine or join Russia, and that should be the end of it. Why doesn't Ukraine just do this? The only reason I can think of is that they are fascists.
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Postby MatureDJ » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:48 am

This is an existential question of the breakup of the USSR. What *should* have happened was that there be a census and possibly elections in each oblast to determine how the SSRs were to be adjusted before the breakup. Of course, everyone - even Mother Russia - wanted the hell out, so this never happened. An after-the-fact election might be a worthy exercise, but at this point, it would never happen without Russia's little green men helping. It should be noted that Russia only annexed Crimea, and that is a region that is almost all Russian (and used to be part of the RSFSR up until the '50s.)

Regions with heavy Russian speaking populations should have the right to use Russian for official business until the current generation dies out, although all children must be taught the national language (Russian could be taught as a 2nd language.) A possible exception to this would be the Baltics, which have always been recognized as independent, even during the Soviet occupation of 1940-1991.
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Re: The so called "oppression" of Russian speakers

Postby MatureDJ » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:53 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:My personal belief is that Putin will annex SEVERAL Russian-speaking areas near Russia while the US is bogged down with ISIS. Keep an eye on this "Eurasian Customs Union" that Putin wants to impose upon its former Soviet minions.


I doubt it. And despite the talk that he will pull off this trick in the Baltics, that will never happen as NATO will be called to action, an Putin knows it. The only reason Putin had the ability to pull off the action in Ukraine was because of the chaos stemming from the coup d'état there. There will be no such coups in the Baltics.
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Postby ***JP*** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:28 am

Russia does have a program to let the Russians living in Europe especially the ones who live in the former republics to return home under their relocation program. The thing is most Russians who live in the EU especially in the FSU countries that joined the EU would rather stay than go to back to Russia.

It was a decree signed by Putin not too long ago but even still even though Russians complain about the countries they live in they just don't want to return.
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Postby ladislav » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:53 pm

fschmidt wrote:I think all these issues are nonsense. Each state in Ukraine should simply be allowed to vote whether they want to stay in Ukraine or join Russia, and that should be the end of it. Why doesn't Ukraine just do this? The only reason I can think of is that they are fascists.


Because Ukraine doesn't have "states"; it's not America. Ukraine is a State, a unitary one and it has a constitution that does not allow it. Even the USSR had no states- it has republics-the Soviet republics and the autonomous republics. The Soviet republics had the right to secede and they did. Autonomous republics such as Chechnya did not. No such thing in the Constitution.
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Postby starchild5 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:25 pm

Its all a show to screw humanity ever more. They just need an excuse...

Russia and America are the Best Friends For EVER. Whenever they want to destroy a country they come from opposite sides in the name of Communism/Democracy – Socialism/Capitalism aka any opposite ideologies with a common ground on Freedom. This is the same tactic they used for over 100 years now.

List of countries they have divided and ruled and butchered millions of local population.

Whenever US & Russia ZERO-IN on any country…Its guaranteed Innocent millions in that country will die.

1. Germany

2. Korea

3. Balkans

4. Combodia

5. Vietnam

6. Yugoslavia

7. Afghanistan

8. Libya

9. Syria

and now

10. Ukraine

Is their any doubt looking at the past history of these two countries involved in so called peace and freedom of its local population and then murdering millions and quietly leaving the scene as Russia has done often in the past with America staying to butcher more.

Bad Cop = Russia

Good Cop = America

Match Made In Heaven

Don't be fooled by the biggest con Fake Left-Right Paradigm Ever...Russia and America. These two entities are screwing humanity on all sides, whats worse is, it screws its own people even more...
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Postby fschmidt » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:12 pm

ladislav wrote:
fschmidt wrote:I think all these issues are nonsense. Each state in Ukraine should simply be allowed to vote whether they want to stay in Ukraine or join Russia, and that should be the end of it. Why doesn't Ukraine just do this? The only reason I can think of is that they are fascists.

Because Ukraine doesn't have "states"; it's not America. Ukraine is a State, a unitary one and it has a constitution that does not allow it. Even the USSR had no states- it has republics-the Soviet republics and the autonomous republics. The Soviet republics had the right to secede and they did. Autonomous republics such as Chechnya did not. No such thing in the Constitution.

This is semantics. Instead of "states", use "provinces". And Chechnya should have been allowed to secede.

In general, any non-trivial group of people should be allowed to decide their own fate. The only exception is if they pose a threat to their neighbor. So if Ukraine proposed to join NATO, then Russia would be justified in taking it over. For the same reason, Gaza has lost its right to exist because it threatens Israel.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:26 am

Not even provinces. It's just a city and rural areas adjacent to it.

They should have done it by appealing their case the way the Catalans/Scots are doing, not by taking over police stations with guns. Such sudden and violent means disrupt normal flow of life. It should also have been done without Russian troops on the ground with no insignia.

If Chechnya secedes, Russia will fall apart like dominoes. Russia itself is just a relatively small area around Moscow and St Pete. Everywhere else it's either native Asian, Turkic or Finnish groups- they are not even Slavs. These will just leave Moscow and the real Russians with no resources. Supply lines will be ruptured. Trade will suffer. It will create chaos and wars. And Siberians,although mostly Russians ethnically, have the same mental view of their relationship with Russia as Canadians with England. They will break away pretty soon.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:37 am

Here is a case in point. Dnipropetrovsk is an ethnically Russian city with a Jewish mayor who is an Israeli national - dual- Ukraine does not allow it.

They shouldn't be patriotic Ukrainians.

Look at the last names and faces. They are all speaking Russian, but they are dressed in Ukie folk clothes and dancing native dances. Where's the oppression?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B3lpNhCvM8[/youtube]

And here is the respect they have for the cause in those areas again. This time for a fallen soldier. People kneel draped in national flags. Can you imagine this in the US with someone coming back from Iraq in a casket and people kneeling on the road? Fat chance.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpGp3QencPU[/youtube]

Now in Ukraine the only thing that seems to matter is your political allegiance and citizenship. Ethnicity and language have moved to the back burner.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:39 am

starchild5 wrote:Its all a show to screw humanity ever more. They just need an excuse...

Russia and America are the Best Friends For EVER...

Don't be fooled by the biggest con Fake Left-Right Paradigm Ever...Russia and America. These two entities are screwing humanity on all sides, whats worse is, it screws its own people even more...


Except that no one really wants to emulate the Russians, marry Russian men and go and live in Russia. There are no well paying jobs there, no real opportunities. After Americans screw up a country, people start loving them. Look at the Philippines and VN. Being an American there is like...wow!

While no one really likes Russia that much.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:30 am

ladislav wrote:
starchild5 wrote:Its all a show to screw humanity ever more. They just need an excuse...

Russia and America are the Best Friends For EVER...

Don't be fooled by the biggest con Fake Left-Right Paradigm Ever...Russia and America. These two entities are screwing humanity on all sides, whats worse is, it screws its own people even more...


Except that no one really wants to emulate the Russians, marry Russian men and go and live in Russia. There are no well paying jobs there, no real opportunities. After Americans screw up a country, people start loving them. Look at the Philippines and VN. Being an American there is like...wow!

While no one really likes Russia that much.


It's all economics and cultural propaganda though. Anglo culture is highly appealing because it's the most prosperous and more importantly easily accessible. The dream of being a poor immigrant earning money is a possibility for even the most downtrodden. It's also the anglo countries which a poor foreign woman who is merely average can marry way up from her station in life and have untold riches.
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Postby newlifeinphilippines » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:44 pm

Im plannig a possible trip to Moscow maybe in 2016. I have to see how my work goes over the next year income wise but russia definitely sparks my interest. Next time i leave the country ill go there IF its still possible for americans without too big of political or safety issues.

I just can't believe no one else is checking them out lately. Im not really going there to find a girlfriend just to check out the scene and culture and experience. but if i find a woman along the way that would be great lol Maybe it will serve as an update to Winston wus russia trip.

After russia from san francisco then fly back to manila then back to san francisco. Im thinking like a 360 around teh world.

The better question is why would someone want a damn filipina wife. ugly tribal looking Ignorant greedy beggars who suck at sex. Russian women want to get ghetto gagged and are classy looking. Id go to philippines for the easy sex or instant girlfriend but not for a wife. the thing is in phil i just wind up with desperate women and gold diggers anyways. so i might as well just go for a hardcore russian women. its making sense to me now if im gonna get scammed i should get scammed by the real deal. Filipinas are for piss poor old farts who can't handle a russian woman.

If russia becomes too unstable for westerners maybe Ill try a multi asian tour. ic ould check out eastern europe but maybe not worth stopping there.
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Postby ladislav » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:55 pm

newlifeinphilippines wrote:Im plannig a possible trip to Moscow maybe in 2016. I have to see how my work goes over the next year income wise but russia definitely sparks my interest. Next time i leave the country ill go there IF its still possible for americans without too big of political or safety issues. ...
If russia becomes too unstable for westerners maybe Ill try a multi asian tour. ic ould check out eastern europe but maybe not worth stopping there.


The reason people want a Filipina is because they are clones of Americans who love Americans and want to live in the US. They speak English and have had an education system copied from the US. The same subjects, the same nursery rhymes, songs etc. They look Asian, but are Americans inside. Especially the ones who are on the sites. They speak English and have grown up on US culture. They love it. They fit an Anglo American like a glove. They will be happy to exchange their passport for the US one. It's an honor.

The Russians otoh kind of " look like" white Americans, but they have nothing, as in nothing in common with the US. Their religion is Orthodox whose values Americans are not familiar with. They didn't grow up on English; they have different songs and a different alphabet. Anglos (Germanics) and Slavs in general do not mix, Eastern Slavs in particular. Thus, you either have to be well versed in their culture or they have to be American wannabes- the rare types that admire America. Plus Americans traditionally dislike the Russians. Why bring one over especially now is beyond me.

Also, visas into Russia are not easy to get, and living there is not easy, either. The bureaucracy in a language that is hard to learn with most people not speaking English and all other such things make it a big headache. The winters will make Alaska feel like HI.

The Philippines makes it easy to stay there and visas are cheap. They welcome the US passport. The Philippines and America are friends; Russia and America are basically enemies.

Those are the reasons why American people prefer Filipinas.
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