Do Asian men have a disadvantage in Eastern Europe?

[chanta76]

The reason why I ask this question is that Wu tried his luck in Russia and it did not work out and ended up in the Philippines.

In the Philippines because Wu is of Chinese descent he will have some inherent value because of his ethnic back ground but being Asian descent it appears that even in Russia there is a layer or racism against men of color.

I never been to Eastern Europe so I don't have first time experience but my impression of Russia is that it appears to be unfriendly to men of color. Just looking at the youtube clips of Russian skin heads beating up non-white people and hearing scams from Russian women it seems like a hard sell of finding a girl in Russia.

[Winston]

It's true. Most men of color that I know claim that they were racially mistreated in Russia. The girls will still be nice and approachable with you. But not take you seriously and they usually won't go home with you after dinner but just say thank you and leave.

You can see the first two photojournals of my Russia trip here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Photojournals.htm

I have heard that Eastern Russia is far more friendly to Asians. I'd recommend going there, and if it doesn't work out, you can always head to China where you will have more hot China dolls to choose from than you can imagine, from what I've heard.

[Chemist]

I never been to Eastern Europe so I don't have first time experience but my impression of Russia is that it appears to be unfriendly to men of color.

Generally speaking, this is true.

My girfriend and other Russian women I've spoken to strongly prefer ethnic Russians or other slavs as partners.

But sometimes people realize that they have to make compromises to get what they want, so they'll consider foriegners. Even then, they will preferentially go with European over American or Australian due to cultural similarity and proximity to their homeland.

Russians that are more ethnically mixed such as Tartars or Uzbechis will be more tolerant of asian decent. Regions of Russia that share a border with China may also be more tolerant. Asian people do hold preference over Turks, Muslims and Africans who Russians absolutely disdain.

Having said that, you may still find some success in Russia, albiet from a smaller dating pool. The best course of action is to start some correspondence with some ladies. The ladies that participate in sustained correspondence with you after seeing your picture will likely not have much of an issue with your descent.

If your interested in finding a wife, work with a few agencies or international matchmakers that you feel comfortable with. They tend to have particular knowledge about the ladies preferences in regards to ethnicity. This will be a good start.

But no lady will leave her home to marry you unless she is convinced that you have something that is difficult to find near her home. If she sees that you're not much better than a Russian man down the street, than forget it. So be your best. I'm talking spit and polish, shining like a new penny. Take accurate stock of who you are and what you can offer her for the future and act accordingly. Men with a strong sense of self-identity are the ones that will do well in this venture.

Ten years ago, you may have ony needed a stable job to convince these girls. Russia has prospered since then and many men have sought Russian brides since then.

The bar has been raised. Good luck to you.

[Winston]

Finally you say something true and useful Chemist, and defined the tendencies well. Wow. Amazing. Too bad you can't say anything accurate about my basic life.

Anyhow I'd also like to add that Russian women also seem to prefer the big macho types of men. And that doesn't bode well for timid meek humble sensitive Asian men. Nor does it bode well for shorter Asian men.

That's mainly why many Russian women liked me as friends, even if we had a lot in common, but that's all.

They wouldn't give any reasons though, other than "I like you as a friend. That's all I feel."

Here in the Philippines, it's a whole different ballgame. I've had so many girls want me in bed and for old fashioned love, it's amazing and beyond my expectations!

[Jackal]

I am not an expert, but from my own observations in the Czech Republic I don't think that white Czech girls would be very interested in dating Asians for the most part, but there might be a few exceptions. I remember seeing a girl on a Czech web forum that had moved to the US and who had an American boyfriend who was racially mixed (not Asian, but sort of afro-cuban or something). I remember this same couple saying that the girl absolutely forbid her boyfriend to tell anyone that she was one quarter Ukrainian--so Europeans have very complicated biases.

However, there is a large Vietnamese community in the Czech Republic that dates back to the communist days when these two countries had some mutual agreements. The Vietnamese-Czechs seem to have a very tightly knit community and you might be able to shack up with one of those girls.

Somehow I think that Bulgaria is probably the most racially diverse country in Eastern Europe (mainly because it's close to Turkey and something like one tenth Muslim).

[Chemist]

Anyhow I'd also like to add that Russian women also seem to prefer the big macho types of men.

They prefer a man who is willing to lead. One who is willing to say "no" once in a while. One who isn't willing to take any crap.

Many Russian women were leading you around by the nose making you pay for everything. You probably should have told them to f-off. You would have gotten a little more respect I think. And I strongly feel that you ahould have been more generous and make an effort to show her how special you thought she was.

But your Russian trip reports show you skipping from city to city, girl to girl.

And that doesn't bode well for timid meek humble sensitive Asian men. Nor does it bode well for shorter Asian men.

Well I'm not Asian and I'm not short. I'm tall and caucasian so it can be argued that this contributed to my success.

But do I need to remind you that you were not out of the game in Russia. You were engaged to a nice girl named Alina (who wasn't too bad looking) but you cheated on her and than kissed another girl at the train station in front of her (and you call yourself charming?). And I thought that you had an excellent chance with Natasha E from Tula (you met her at the hermitage I think), but you didn't follow through with her since you were distracted by all the other Russian girls around you. That's the problem with some bride seekers. They go to visit a woman and go "girl crazy" and end up blowing off a good opportunity.

That's mainly why many Russian women liked me as friends, even if we had a lot in common, but that's all.

You rarely invested anything to make them feel special, Winston. Think about this. When you're asking a girl to be your girlfriend, and later your wife, but you don't show her how much you value her over other girls, what do you think her response would be? Can you blame her?

They wouldn't give any reasons though, other than "I like you as a friend. That's all I feel."

Sometimes this happens. But lets consider that you met a lot of women on the street. Women that you had no idea if they were willing to move abroad with anybody. And this concept probably never entered their mind. It was a waste of your resources to try and date them. You were better off renting an apartment and working exclusively through agencies or websites. At least such women put some thought into marrying a foriegn man and would be more receptive to serious relationships with them.


Here in the Philippines, it's a whole different ballgame. I've had so many girls want me in bed and for old fashioned love, it's amazing and beyond my expectations!

Of course!
First, the Phillipines is a poorer country than Russia.

Second, you are living there and you don't seem to have any immediate plans to take them back to America.

Third, they are likely more tollerant of Asians

Lastly, They're go-go girls. Sorry Winston, that's how I see it. You're opportunities for sex seem to drop off drastically when you leave the go-go scene.

When you meet girls in normal places, all of a sudden, it's not about the sex anymore (your previously determined success criteria). It's about phone numbers and phone calls.

[Winston]

Chemist:

But do I need to remind you that you were not out of the game in Russia. You were engaged to a nice girl named Alina (who wasn't too bad looking) but you cheated on her and than kissed another girl at the train station in front of her (and you call yourself charming?). And I thought that you had an excellent chance with Natasha E from Tula (you met her at the hermitage I think), but you didn't follow through with her since you were distracted by all the other Russian girls around you. That's the problem with some bride seekers. They go to visit a woman and go "girl crazy" and end up blowing off a good opportunity.

W: You are right. I wasn't out of the game in Russia. Even when I was getting used, I wasn't out of the game. That's why I was there so long. My only disappointment was that my dates weren't as satisfying and fulfilling as I wanted.

It's not always a matter of me "doing" something wrong. It's mostly about chemistry and maybe subatomic energy fields. Some electrons/neutrons attract and others repel.

You can't presume that I can follow the exact formula of you or Brad and get the same results. Doesn't work that way.

It took Brad years of going to Russia before getting his wife.

The moral is that you can do all the right things and follow the perfect formula, but if it's the wrong person then it won't work. Agreed?

Chemist:

You rarely invested anything to make them feel special, Winston. Think about this. When you're asking a girl to be your girlfriend, and later your wife, but you don't show her how much you value her over other girls, what do you think her response would be? Can you blame her?

W: I don't see women as investments. They aren't a stock market. It's all about personal chemistry and phermone attraction.

My girl Dianne now has seen me look at other girls and it makes her freak sometimes, and she starts pulling my ear like a control freak. But even though she's pissed, she still sticks with me again and again cause we have "true love".

Chemist:

Sometimes this happens. But lets consider that you met a lot of women on the street. Women that you had no idea if they were willing to move abroad with anybody. And this concept probably never entered their mind. It was a waste of your resources to try and date them. You were better off renting an apartment and working exclusively through agencies or websites. At least such women put some thought into marrying a foriegn man and would be more receptive to serious relationships with them.

W: So you admit you get rejected too sometimes? No one is right for everyone.

Yes I did pick up a lot of girls on the street, anyone who caught my fancy, skirt chasing so to speak. To me, I was following my instincts and also trying to play the law of probability. I thought that my slot machine tactic would eventually end up in a jackpot or at least lots of sex. It didn't happen that way, but here such tactics do work for me in the Philippines.

I did use agencies. Remember in Yoshkar Ola I used Maxims agency and got lots of introductions? I tried every avenue I can.

I did my best, and you can't blame me for doing my best.

There are some guys who don't even try or do things that are unwise yet they still succeed. You can't predict everything in life.

Chemist:

Of course!
First, the Phillipines is a poorer country than Russia.

Second, you are living there and you don't seem to have any immediate plans to take them back to America.

Third, they are likely more tollerant of Asians

Lastly, They're go-go girls. Sorry Winston, that's how I see it. You're opportunities for sex seem to drop off drastically when you leave the go-go scene.

When you meet girls in normal places, all of a sudden, it's not about the sex anymore (your previously determined success criteria). It's about phone numbers and phone calls.

W: Didn't you see in the bashing board that I posted pics of NONbar girls who have strong feelings for me? Go there and look at them.

They also appreciate sweet romantic types like me. They are warm and tender on the inside like me too.

There is better chemistry with them, beside the factors you listed. You can't deny that.

Why else do you think I do better than the other white guys here, who are richer than me?

Plus, as in anywhere in Asia, many asian girls here only like asian guys.

[Grunt]

Winston is correct in saying Eastern European girls simply don't take Asian or other minority men seriously. There is alot of racial awareness in these nations as they were basically fed a steady stream of propaganda about the American "melting pot" for 60 odd years.

Something as simple as the Rodney King L.A. riots or Hurricane Katrina is all they need to see to decide assimilation it not worth the effort. At least from their perspective.

[KristineTheStrawberryGirl]

I am sorry to say, but it is true that Russian women usually do NOT like to date or marry Asian men. I have only recently realized the magnitude of the anti-Chinese tendencies in Russian social life, because my own family does not share that belief. I have learned that in the most typical social settings of Russia, it is a rare situation when a Russian woman would be attracted to an Asian men, and if she is, her family would be so against it, that she would eventually not feel right about it. There are rare exceptions with Korean men, and sometimes Japanese men do OK, but Chinese men tend to be viewed as undesirable. In fact, a family friend recently told me of a Russian proverb about Chinese people having 6 faces and no beauty. Black men actually have better odds in Russia than far East Asian men (they have that whole "Pushkin was a black man" thing going for them), especially Chinese men. On the other hand, in general, dark eyes, darker skin and dark hair are considered very attractive in Russia (just not on Chinese people). I am familiar with the most famous celebrities, rock stars. musicians, models and sex symbols of Russia, and most of them have very dark eyes and hair. Sometimes they have sort of a gypsy look, and the Bollywood Indian movies are very popular, so it may be that Indians would be considered attracive, but not Chinese. I think that if a Chinese guy likes white girls, he'd have better luck in the United States than Russia to be honest. Maybe Iceland, Germany or Scandinavia may work out better? Somewhere else in Europe maybe.

[Evergreen]

I am sorry to say, but it is true that Russian women usually do NOT like to date or marry Asian men. I have only recently realized the magnitude of the anti-Chinese tendencies in Russian social life, because my own family does not share that belief. I have learned that in the most typical social settings of Russia, it is a rare situation when a Russian woman would be attracted to an Asian men, and if she is, her family would be so against it, that she would eventually not feel right about it. There are rare exceptions with Korean men, and sometimes Japanese men do OK, but Chinese men tend to be viewed as undesirable. In fact, a family friend recently told me of a Russian proverb about Chinese people having 6 faces and no beauty. Black men actually have better odds in Russia than far East Asian men (they have that whole "Pushkin was a black man" thing going for them), especially Chinese men. On the other hand, in general, dark eyes, darker skin and dark hair are considered very attractive in Russia (just not on Chinese people). I am familiar with the most famous celebrities, rock stars. musicians, models and sex symbols of Russia, and most of them have very dark eyes and hair. Sometimes they have sort of a gypsy look, and the Bollywood Indian movies are very popular, so it may be that Indians would be considered attracive, but not Chinese. I think that if a Chinese guy likes white girls, he'd have better luck in the United States than Russia to be honest. Maybe Iceland, Germany or Scandinavia may work out better? Somewhere else in Europe maybe.

I got something to add that contradicts what you wrote about Chinese men in Russia. It looks like Chinese men are doing well in Russia... at least in Siberia.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006 ... 659034.htm

Chinese husbands welcomed in Russia
By Li Qian (Chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2006-08-07 17:21

Recently Russian women are looking to marry Chinese men because of their trustworthiness and romanticism, Chinanews.com reported Monday.

"Can you introduce some nice Chinese guys to me?" 25-year-old Russian Nadya asked her Chinese boss Zhao Hong, chairwoman of the local Chinese Association in Russia's fifth largest city Krasnoyarsk, who often receives such requests.

Among the more than one hundred Chinese families Zhao knows in the city, there are at least five Russian women married to men who work as businessmen, planters, or teachers at a national university.

Chinese migrant to Russia Ge Youjin and his Russian wife Tatiana had their third child recently. Tatiana said her husband is responsible. "He cherishes our love and doesn't drink or spend a lot," she said.

Ge too admires his wife. "She is hardworking and considerate like other Russian women, and she takes care of the family well."

Tatiana has a decent job, and cooks Northeast Chinese cuisine, which makes her husband feel at home. Tatiana now favors rice as a staple food, instead of Russian black bread.

Guo Jinchang, who has worked in a local farm for a dozen years, noticed some of his Chinese friends married Russian wives. "Chinese are comparatively conservative, which can add to their characteristic charms," he said.

Because of World War II, the population of men in Russia has been smaller than that of women, with 47 percent male and 53 percent female, according to figures from the Russian Federation Committee of Statistics.

[Winston]

I am sorry to say, but it is true that Russian women usually do NOT like to date or marry Asian men. I have only recently realized the magnitude of the anti-Chinese tendencies in Russian social life, because my own family does not share that belief. I have learned that in the most typical social settings of Russia, it is a rare situation when a Russian woman would be attracted to an Asian men, and if she is, her family would be so against it, that she would eventually not feel right about it. There are rare exceptions with Korean men, and sometimes Japanese men do OK, but Chinese men tend to be viewed as undesirable. In fact, a family friend recently told me of a Russian proverb about Chinese people having 6 faces and no beauty. Black men actually have better odds in Russia than far East Asian men (they have that whole "Pushkin was a black man" thing going for them), especially Chinese men. On the other hand, in general, dark eyes, darker skin and dark hair are considered very attractive in Russia (just not on Chinese people). I am familiar with the most famous celebrities, rock stars. musicians, models and sex symbols of Russia, and most of them have very dark eyes and hair. Sometimes they have sort of a gypsy look, and the Bollywood Indian movies are very popular, so it may be that Indians would be considered attracive, but not Chinese. I think that if a Chinese guy likes white girls, he'd have better luck in the United States than Russia to be honest. Maybe Iceland, Germany or Scandinavia may work out better? Somewhere else in Europe maybe.

W: In Russia I was told that people with darker skin in general were treated worse, esp if they are from the caucaus. This Turkish guy told me so too.

My Indian friend there who has lived there for 10 years, is afraid to take the metro even.

But Russian women always tell me that they don't care about race, as long as they love the man. lol

Kristine, but what about Eastern Russia? I heard that the Russians there, esp along the border to China have a high opinion of the Chinese.

There is no way in hell though, that a typical Asian male would do better with American women than Russian women. No way. I've scored far more Russian women and got far better attention than in the US.

I have heard from some sources though, that Asian men do well with Bulgarian and Romanian women.

[sharpbws]

Winston is correct in saying Eastern European girls simply don't take Asian or other minority men seriously. There is alot of racial awareness in these nations as they were basically fed a steady stream of propaganda about the American "melting pot" for 60 odd years.

Oh I don't know. There was a time between 2003-2005 when it was a real status symbol for hot Russian women to take an athletic black man home and have sex with him. Black dudes scored their asses off in many of Moscow's more swanky clubs back in those days. My buddy Johnny, manager at the Hungry Duck was a studly, athletic South African black man and he would score sometimes three and four times a day with model-hot Russian dyevs during that time period.

Between 2002-2004 the hot thing for Russian club girls was to experiment with gay sex. Seems like everyone was "pink". Perhaps both trends were just a cultural experimental phase.

[sharpbws]

Because of World War II, the population of men in Russia has been smaller than that of women, with 47 percent male and 53 percent female, according to figures from the Russian Federation Committee of Statistics.

Urban legend. That might have been true in the 20 years following WW II but not now. It might be true for the entire population counting all the babuskas who are outliving their same-age male counterparts. I believe if you check CURRENT statistics, you'll find that the male/female ratio of live births is slightly tilted toward men; just like in almost all other westernized countries.

[Evergreen]

I don't suggest looking for women in Moscow; the political, religious and economic capital of Russia. Moscow is the most expensive city in the world and their women are the most materialistic out of all Russian women in general. To find quality feminine Russian women, I would suggest go as far away from Moscow as possible like Siberia. There is a blog of one man who lives somewhere in the Siberian part of Russia and I do read his blog from time to time and you may as well to get a sense what traditional feminine Russian women are like in his blog here http://russianwomen.wordpress.com

Here's the article I came across just recently.

Dating in Moscow

http://mnweekly.rian.ru/feature/20071108/55287964.html

08/11/2007
As expat men and women pour out of their offices every evening in their chosen land of opportunity, towards the various hip bars and night spots on the eternal quest for love or casual adventure, the men seem to win on every front.

"How do men always manage to find themselves a Russian girlfriend?" is an oft-heard complaint among the luckless expat ladies. Statistically, this makes ample sense as there are far more women in Russia than men, and the latter therefore have the pick of the bunch, whereas great Russian men are thinner on the ground.

"I have heard the complaint from Russian women that Russian men are all drunk and/or lazy," says Maria Kleminsova, who is half British and works for a PR company in Moscow. "It's a bit unfair, but statistically not only are there fewer men, but there are fewer men with gainful employment."

It is hardly surprising, therefore that with all the odds in their favor, men need not make any effort to go about meeting women in Moscow. They often need only to walk into a bar.

"I've seen how it works and it's quite scary," remarks Andrew Col­lins from the U.S. "If you go into one of the sports bars around town you'll find a group of about 20 foreign men watching football and suddenly Russian girls will appear from nowhere, some are prostitutes, some just women seeking to meet foreign men, and they will start ‘practicing their English,' or Swedish, or whatever language the men happen to be speaking." For the men it is a very easy ‘score', for the girls - a very easy catch. Presumably, everyone is happy.

"Bars are a waste of time," say Ruth and Karen, two lively and attractive girls from Scotland and London. "We even tried speed-dating here once. It seemed like the perfect solution, think of all the guys we were going to meet... only the organizer couldn't find enough interested men to pair up with the girls for the evening and had to fill in the gaps with a load of his gay friends! Then we tried joining an international choir, but there were 6 men to 45 women! Hopeless..."

"I believe that Russia is like another world for western men, something that they are not used to at all," says Kirsten Larson, a Swede who lost her Canadian boyfriend of five years to a Russian girl. "It's like heaven for them as Russian girls are very different from Western girls and, for some men, seemingly a lot more suitable. Of the single foreign guys I've known there isn't one that hadn't hooked up with a Russian girl within two months."

Sofia's words could not ring truer in the case of Etienne, a young French lawyer who recently moved to Moscow. "It's a real paradise here," says Etienne. "Everywhere you look you see beautiful women. Com­petition is fierce for foreign women, who don't really stand a chance here. Russians look after themselves better and they are generally more beautiful. There seems to a more retrograde view here, more in line with the 1950s, where a man's pleasure was one of woman's primary aims. Here all the women go to the gym and have toned bodies." And he goes on: "they are tigers in the bedroom and really take things in their own hands. They would never dream of refusing to make love even if they're not in the mood. My ex-girlfriend Natasha would never contradict me in public even if she disagreed with me".

"I have found that Russian women are more affectionate and loving," says Peter Johnson, 58, who relies on dating agencies to meet Russian women as it is not so easy for older men to meet women in clubs. Agency websites show an array of ultra glamorous ladies seeking foreign partners. Despite a failed second marriage to a Russian, Peter continues to place his faith in Russian women. "Women's lib never happened here, and in general I think women's attitudes to men are far better here than in the West. They do expect you to take them to expensive restaurants though," he continues, "expecting you to have stacks of money. One of the women I met on the Internet made a reservation at this expensive restaurant before we'd even met. I ordered nothing for myself and still ended up paying about $300. This dating has cost me thousands already."

"Women here are much more approachable," continues Etienne, who admits that he disapproves of feminism. "We have reached a situation in the West where women are trying too hard to be like men. Their own career expectations surpass my own, and that is not what we want from a woman. If I am in competition with my partner, then that automatically reduces the affection I feel for her and the relationship cannot work out." While illustrating his point further with tales of pretty girls in bars ignoring their escorts to flirt with him and follow him out for x-rated activities, Etienne's eyes dart around the room to check out the attributes of ladies at neighboring tables, trying to make eye contact. Presumably the affection he gets from his current Russian girlfriends, however outstanding, is not enough to fulfill his continual craving.

However, cultural differences can get in the way of these international romances. Jonathan Boldy, a Cambridge graduate from the UK, has had his fair share of Russian girlfriends but is now disillusioned. "They have extremely preconceived ideas about relationships and love. As a broad definition men must be as macho as possible and women as dainty as they can." He recalls being derided for wanting to cook a meal or do the dishes, as though his masculinity was at stake. One English girl recalls how, as the only girl at a Russian party, she was expected to clear up all the mess while the boys put their feet up at the end. She soon broke up with her Russian boyfriend.

One British journalist, who asked not to be named, deplores the typical acclimatized, expat man's approach. "If having a woman clean, cook and agree with them is the limit to what they perceive a good relationship to be, well then maybe they've found their ideal but many people need something more profound than that," says the Oxford graduate. "As with most expat girls you meet here, you have a stronger bond because you share something in common, and the notion that they're less attractive is most of the time just absurd. Taste is very subjective but personally I don't find micro skirts, PVC boots and leopard-print boob tubes appealing. One heartwarming thing about the changes in the past few years is that Russian girls are beginning to look more western and not all of them dress as if they are looking for paying customers. At least then you can start judging them on their personalities. Plenty of Russian girls are very pleasant and attractive, but so are plenty of girls in the West. And both can be obnoxious. Beauty is international, and so, on the other hand, is extreme ugliness."

But Frank Lieberman, a lawyer from the U.S. says: "it's difficult to have a significant long-term relationships with a Russian because of the linguistic and cultural barriers, and after all some couples can barely communicate, apart from a few Neanderthal grunts. But then most men out here are not seeking long-term relationships".

So while expat men experiment with their fantasies-come-true, it looks like their female counterparts will have to look elsewhere for their entertainment. "I didn't date many men," says Ruth Samuel, a PR executive from the UK, "but I've had a whale of a time, got involved in all sorts of activities, travelled all around Russia, met fascinating people and made lifelong friends. It's been the happiest and the most interesting time of my life. As for men, that will come too, back home perhaps." So who is losing out?

By Nathalie Cooper

[sharpbws]

"How do men always manage to find themselves a Russian girlfriend?" is an oft-heard complaint among the luckless expat ladies.

LOL! Does it REALLY surprise anyone that when put in direct competition on the same field of play, western men will opt for Russian women over western women 100% of the time?

No surprise to me whatsoever.