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Do Asian men have a disadvantage in Eastern Europe?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.

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Postby Grunt » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:00 am

sharpbws wrote:
Evergreen wrote:"How do men always manage to find themselves a Russian girlfriend?" is an oft-heard complaint among the luckless expat ladies.


LOL! Does it REALLY surprise anyone that when put in direct competition on the same field of play, western men will opt for Russian women over western women 100% of the time?

No surprise to me whatsoever.


I think Fred Reed said it best concerning why American females are, in his words, "an International Horror":

The bedrock of The Attitude is that everything is the man's fault. Wonders Reimer, "What is the answer, especially if the 20- and 30-year-old male is such poor marriage material?" She does not wonder, "If I am such a grindingly awful termagant that men on three continents are crossing their legs and feeling queasy over my mere column, and won't come near me except in a Kevlar bathysphere with a disinfectant system, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Gosh. I wonder what?"

That about sums it up.
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Postby sharpbws » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:38 am

Grunt wrote: I think Fred Reed said it best concerning why American females are, in his words, "an International Horror":

The bedrock of The Attitude is that everything is the man's fault. Wonders Reimer, "What is the answer, especially if the 20- and 30-year-old male is such poor marriage material?" She does not wonder, "If I am such a grindingly awful termagant that men on three continents are crossing their legs and feeling queasy over my mere column, and won't come near me except in a Kevlar bathysphere with a disinfectant system, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Gosh. I wonder what?"

That about sums it up.


In his book "To Russia For Love: An American Man's Best Option" by Frank Coleman he referred to American womankind "a defective product". In many instances, I agree with his assessment.

Personally I think it all started around 1996 when Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider released their moronic book "The Rules". It was about this time that women started to buy in to the theory that no matter what flaws and shortcomings they brought to the relationship table, men should ignore those flaws, worship the woman's ass, and then conform and submit to everything the woman demanded and expected to make the relationship work in her eyes. If a man didn't measure up, he was "dismissed" by the woman. Well, men "dismissed" by American women with asses bigger than their own figured there HAD to be another option. Guys like myself looked successfully in Russia.
:-)
Brad
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Postby Grunt » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:13 am

I hear ya man, and I agree. See, I have been saying for a while that the battle of the sexes is already over...we men won. Granted, there are still casualties, but they are mostly the ignorant that had they not been done in by a feminist, they would have met their demise some other way.

And, for each failed relationship, word spreads. About the same time as "the rules" were put to ink, another trend became widespread.

Its called "the marriage strike". Google it, great stuff.

Quality defines value. All feminists have no value, or have a negative value. American men are well known by women abroad as among the best husbands in the world. As I was joking with a friend of mine today, if American men are truly as horrible and disgusting as American females portend, why don't American females go overseas and find foreign husbands?

Easy...they cant.

American men? Well, thats another story.
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Postby Evergreen » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:32 am

sharpbws wrote:
Evergreen wrote: Because of World War II, the population of men in Russia has been smaller than that of women, with 47 percent male and 53 percent female, according to figures from the Russian Federation Committee of Statistics.


Urban legend. That might have been true in the 20 years following WW II but not now. It might be true for the entire population counting all the babuskas who are outliving their same-age male counterparts. I believe if you check CURRENT statistics, you'll find that the male/female ratio of live births is slightly tilted toward men; just like in almost all other westernized countries.


There are still more women than men even young ones starting from 18 and up. The reason is many young men die from alcohol related deaths. Drinking one half or more litres of Vodka on a regular basis will kill many of them off by themselves. I get many reports there are shortage of men of all age groups in Russia and especially Siberia. One site http://russianwomen.wordpress.com written by an American man who lives in Siberia can tell you places where he went to social outings and women greatly outnumber men there.
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Postby sharpbws » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:20 am

Evergreen wrote: There are still more women than men even young ones starting from 18 and up. The reason is many young men die from alcohol related deaths. Drinking one half or more litres of Vodka on a regular basis will kill many of them off by themselves. I get many reports there are shortage of men of all age groups in Russia and especially Siberia. One site http://russianwomen.wordpress.com written by an American man who lives in Siberia can tell you places where he went to social outings and women greatly outnumber men there.


I'm sorry but that is just urban legend promulgated by the marriage agency industry. It's just not true when looking at women of "marriagable age". The CIA Factbook lists the following statistics:

0-14 years: 14.6% (male 10,563,567/female 10,021,316)
15-64 years: 71.1% (male 48,412,612/female 52,061,604)
65 years and over: 14.4% (male 6,360,038/female 13,958,615) (2007 est.)

and -

at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.054 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.93 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.456 male(s)/female
total population: 0.859 male(s)/female (2007 est.)

The older age groups are clearly the cause for the ratio to look more favorable than it really is.

US Department of Census issued a report that shows the fallicy of this "legend' more clearly. Here is a link for the study:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/prod/ib96-2.pdf

Men Age 17-19: 3,771,000
Women Age 17-19: 3,661,000

Men Age 15-49: 39,062,000
Women Age 15-49: 39,573,000

With the older age groups it is true there are more women than men. But that is just not the case when discussing women of "marriageable age" in Russia.

Sorry to disappoint you dude.
:-)
Brad
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Postby Evergreen » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:52 am

sharpbws wrote:
Evergreen wrote: There are still more women than men even young ones starting from 18 and up. The reason is many young men die from alcohol related deaths. Drinking one half or more litres of Vodka on a regular basis will kill many of them off by themselves. I get many reports there are shortage of men of all age groups in Russia and especially Siberia. One site http://russianwomen.wordpress.com written by an American man who lives in Siberia can tell you places where he went to social outings and women greatly outnumber men there.


I'm sorry but that is just urban legend promulgated by the marriage agency industry. It's just not true when looking at women of "marriagable age". The CIA Factbook lists the following statistics:

0-14 years: 14.6% (male 10,563,567/female 10,021,316)
15-64 years: 71.1% (male 48,412,612/female 52,061,604)
65 years and over: 14.4% (male 6,360,038/female 13,958,615) (2007 est.)

and -

at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.054 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.93 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.456 male(s)/female
total population: 0.859 male(s)/female (2007 est.)

The older age groups are clearly the cause for the ratio to look more favorable than it really is.

US Department of Census issued a report that shows the fallicy of this "legend' more clearly. Here is a link for the study:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/prod/ib96-2.pdf

Men Age 17-19: 3,771,000
Women Age 17-19: 3,661,000

Men Age 15-49: 39,062,000
Women Age 15-49: 39,573,000

With the older age groups it is true there are more women than men. But that is just not the case when discussing women of "marriageable age" in Russia.

Sorry to disappoint you dude.


I did say there are more women than men did I? I never said there are more girls than boys meaning under 18 years old. Right now, there are more women than men in Russia just like before all the way after WW2. Besides, many young men in Russia loves to drown themselves in Vodka so that is killing them in large numbers.

I stand correct that there are more women than men and like I said before, check out that American man link who lives in Siberia to tell you what life is like for women with shortage of men let alone real men(good income. Not drowning themselves with Vodka; are willing and able to support a family).
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Postby sharpbws » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:43 pm

Evergreen wrote: I did say there are more women than men did I? I never said there are more girls than boys meaning under 18 years old. Right now, there are more women than men in Russia just like before all the way after WW2. Besides, many young men in Russia loves to drown themselves in Vodka so that is killing them in large numbers.

I stand correct that there are more women than men and like I said before, check out that American man link who lives in Siberia to tell you what life is like for women with shortage of men let alone real men(good income. Not drowning themselves with Vodka; are willing and able to support a family).


Dude, that source is a marriage agency page. They have a vested financial interest in promulgating this "legend". Sorry to disappoint you but it's an outright lie.

The facts are clear. If you're a 45 year old man looking for a same age woman, there will be far more available women in your age group in Russia than men. But if you're looking for women of normal marriagable age (18-35), then there is no imbalance in the population.

That said, it is true that women age 20-35 with children have a very difficult time finding a suitable husband in their own country. This is because Russian men do not usually choose to raise another man's child.
:-)
Brad
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Postby Evergreen » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:27 pm

sharpbws wrote:
Evergreen wrote: I did say there are more women than men did I? I never said there are more girls than boys meaning under 18 years old. Right now, there are more women than men in Russia just like before all the way after WW2. Besides, many young men in Russia loves to drown themselves in Vodka so that is killing them in large numbers.

I stand correct that there are more women than men and like I said before, check out that American man link who lives in Siberia to tell you what life is like for women with shortage of men let alone real men(good income. Not drowning themselves with Vodka; are willing and able to support a family).


Dude, that source is a marriage agency page. They have a vested financial interest in promulgating this "legend". Sorry to disappoint you but it's an outright lie.

The facts are clear. If you're a 45 year old man looking for a same age woman, there will be far more available women in your age group in Russia than men. But if you're looking for women of normal marriagable age (18-35), then there is no imbalance in the population.

That said, it is true that women age 20-35 with children have a very difficult time finding a suitable husband in their own country. This is because Russian men do not usually choose to raise another man's child.


I get my sources beyond any dating or marriage agency. There are lots of field reports of Western men living in Russia like the link of Wordpress I wrote before who says there are more women than men. I even know one German guy in person who went to Russia and did well with the ladies in May of 2005 as he went to St. Petersburg from Finland by crossing the land border with two of Finnish buddies and they all did well with the Russian ladies there. Him and his buddies also went to a few small towns nearby and did well there as well and even had some ladies initiate the talk to them. Always there are more young women than men in social outings.

Alright, if you don't want to believe there are more women than men in Russia even young women age groups like 18 to 35, then I'll move beyond this. Let's agree to disagree.
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Postby sharpbws » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:06 pm

Evergreen wrote: Alright, if you don't want to believe there are more women than men in Russia even young women age groups like 18 to 35, then I'll move beyond this. Let's agree to disagree.


Just curious, have you actually ever been in Russia?
:-)
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Postby Grunt » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:27 am

Lets not forget that even if there is no shortage of men in Russia, just as there is no shortage of females in America, there is a larger matter to consider.

Quality!

Sure, there may be plenty of Russian guys, but what if the vast overwhelming majority of them are vodka swilling, chronically unemployed, wife beaters?

Conversely, what if in America the vast overwhelming majority of females were shrill, fat, demonic monstrosities?

That leaves alot of room to maneuver for guys, and girls, that do not fall into the above categories.

My wife and I are living proof of that.
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Postby KristineTheStrawberryGirl » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:03 am

WWu777 wrote:
KristineTheStrawberryGirl wrote:I am sorry to say, but it is true that Russian women usually do NOT like to date or marry Asian men. I have only recently realized the magnitude of the anti-Chinese tendencies in Russian social life, because my own family does not share that belief. I have learned that in the most typical social settings of Russia, it is a rare situation when a Russian woman would be attracted to an Asian men, and if she is, her family would be so against it, that she would eventually not feel right about it. There are rare exceptions with Korean men, and sometimes Japanese men do OK, but Chinese men tend to be viewed as undesirable. In fact, a family friend recently told me of a Russian proverb about Chinese people having 6 faces and no beauty. Black men actually have better odds in Russia than far East Asian men (they have that whole "Pushkin was a black man" thing going for them), especially Chinese men. On the other hand, in general, dark eyes, darker skin and dark hair are considered very attractive in Russia (just not on Chinese people). I am familiar with the most famous celebrities, rock stars. musicians, models and sex symbols of Russia, and most of them have very dark eyes and hair. Sometimes they have sort of a gypsy look, and the Bollywood Indian movies are very popular, so it may be that Indians would be considered attracive, but not Chinese. I think that if a Chinese guy likes white girls, he'd have better luck in the United States than Russia to be honest. Maybe Iceland, Germany or Scandinavia may work out better? Somewhere else in Europe maybe.


W: In Russia I was told that people with darker skin in general were treated worse, esp if they are from the caucaus. This Turkish guy told me so too.

My Indian friend there who has lived there for 10 years, is afraid to take the metro even.

But Russian women always tell me that they don't care about race, as long as they love the man. lol

Kristine, but what about Eastern Russia? I heard that the Russians there, esp along the border to China have a high opinion of the Chinese.

There is no way in hell though, that a typical Asian male would do better with American women than Russian women. No way. I've scored far more Russian women and got far better attention than in the US.

I have heard from some sources though, that Asian men do well with Bulgarian and Romanian women.


We're mainly Black Sea Russians here, so I am not so familiar with Siberian society, and you may indeed be right that this area has a high regard for Chinese men. My family has a very high regard for Chinese people, but I have mostly heard negative remarks about Chinese people from Russians outside my family. It has been shocking for me. I am sometimes very ashamed of what is said. These remarks are mostly coming from Russians in Ukraine, Armenia, Various parts of Russian Federation, Moldova and even Yemen, but for some reason, I just don't know too many Siberians.

I think that it depends what part of America, and the situation in Russia has changed so much, that if you went today, you may have a different experience than you did those few years back. Ukraine is kind of the same, but Russian Federation is totally booming, and the women are getting spoiled rotten. There are new millionaires made in Russia every week now, and all they need is to get Crimea back and they'd be all set. lol.

As far as your Turkish friend goes ... Many Russians feel the same way about Turks as the Greeks do, and it has nothing to do with swarthy features. They're considered "arch enemies" of the Orthodox church.

I think everyone is afraid of the metro. Especially the Vykhino district of Moscow.

I have heard some people regard Caucasian men as criminal types, but I never heard that Caucasian men were undesirable for dating in Russia. In fact, I have heard that Georgian men are considered "the Don Juans of the FSU." LOL! I just know that the only TV I ever see is at Grandma's house, and she only watches Russian channels. I notice that on TV, most of the sex symbols are dark. Some are even black. We shop at the Russian stores, and I notice the same media featuring dark sex symbols. All the logos, paintings and drawings of pin-up girl types usually feature a dark-opal-eyed, dark haired, dark complected, and voluptuous woman. Which is kind of funny, because I only know a handful of Russian women who look like that. Most of us are nearly opposite of that.
Last edited by KristineTheStrawberryGirl on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby KristineTheStrawberryGirl » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:05 am

Grunt wrote:Sure, there may be plenty of Russian guys, but what if the vast overwhelming majority of them are vodka swilling, chronically unemployed, wife beaters?


This is changing with the economy ... at least in Russia it is. Ukraine is sort of still the same ...
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Postby KristineTheStrawberryGirl » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:12 am

sharpbws wrote:
Grunt wrote:Winston is correct in saying Eastern European girls simply don't take Asian or other minority men seriously. There is alot of racial awareness in these nations as they were basically fed a steady stream of propaganda about the American "melting pot" for 60 odd years.


Oh I don't know. There was a time between 2003-2005 when it was a real status symbol for hot Russian women to take an athletic black man home and have sex with him. Black dudes scored their asses off in many of Moscow's more swanky clubs back in those days. My buddy Johnny, manager at the Hungry Duck was a studly, athletic South African black man and he would score sometimes three and four times a day with model-hot Russian dyevs during that time period.

Between 2002-2004 the hot thing for Russian club girls was to experiment with gay sex. Seems like everyone was "pink". Perhaps both trends were just a cultural experimental phase.


I know quite a few Russians who have dated and married black people. Yes, it is true that black people face conflict and hostility, because racism exists in Russia. However, I think there's also some segments of the Russian population, or at least there have been some trends, where black people are considered sexy in Russia.
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Postby KristineTheStrawberryGirl » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:19 am

Evergreen wrote:
KristineTheStrawberryGirl wrote:I am sorry to say, but it is true that Russian women usually do NOT like to date or marry Asian men. I have only recently realized the magnitude of the anti-Chinese tendencies in Russian social life, because my own family does not share that belief. I have learned that in the most typical social settings of Russia, it is a rare situation when a Russian woman would be attracted to an Asian men, and if she is, her family would be so against it, that she would eventually not feel right about it. There are rare exceptions with Korean men, and sometimes Japanese men do OK, but Chinese men tend to be viewed as undesirable. In fact, a family friend recently told me of a Russian proverb about Chinese people having 6 faces and no beauty. Black men actually have better odds in Russia than far East Asian men (they have that whole "Pushkin was a black man" thing going for them), especially Chinese men. On the other hand, in general, dark eyes, darker skin and dark hair are considered very attractive in Russia (just not on Chinese people). I am familiar with the most famous celebrities, rock stars. musicians, models and sex symbols of Russia, and most of them have very dark eyes and hair. Sometimes they have sort of a gypsy look, and the Bollywood Indian movies are very popular, so it may be that Indians would be considered attracive, but not Chinese. I think that if a Chinese guy likes white girls, he'd have better luck in the United States than Russia to be honest. Maybe Iceland, Germany or Scandinavia may work out better? Somewhere else in Europe maybe.


I got something to add that contradicts what you wrote about Chinese men in Russia. It looks like Chinese men are doing well in Russia... at least in Siberia.


A little disclaimer here ... nothing that I am saying is scientific or backed up by statistical studies. It's just my own daily life experience in the Russian community. I will also mention that Siberia happens to be an area that I am not familiar with at all. I do hope to go the the Siberian Railway someday, and would love to se Vladivostok someday.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
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Postby Grunt » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:02 pm

I would think Russian men have about the same possibility for redemption as American females. The trend has been going, in both camps, since the end of World War 2. Economic improvements may alleviate some of the abstract suffering, but so long as there are abundant vodka bottles and divorce lawyers laying around, the tiger wont change its stripes.

Those in power do not give it up easily or willingly. This is demonstrated as more and more Western men are flooding overseas to find wives, while domestic marriage rates plummet. Yet do American females get a clue and snap out of it? NO! They become even more shrill, repulsive, unreasonable and, controlling. I'm sure it will be the same with Russian guys, given the right set of circumstances.

Putting faith where it is undue is like putting a convicted kleptomaniac in a room filled with small expensive shiny objects. They will always fall back to their basic programming.
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