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Winston is right about Russian user/taker mentality

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.

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Winston is right about Russian user/taker mentality

Postby tjh14 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:13 am

Hello,
I am an American who lived and worked in Ukraine for a year and was married to a Russian woman for 5 years in America. I didn't know about his site until recently, but I have taken a similar life path since my divorce to the Russian. I live in Beijing now., but I digress...
I was once fascinated with everything Russian, but now I wonder what I was thinking, or what delusional state I had slipped into. I know at least 1,000 Russians and Ukrainians, and only a handful of them can be trusted. This is a summary of my observations and life experience regarding Russian/Slavic culture:

Kindness is confused with weakness
Brutality is confused with strength
The end justifies the means
It is clever to be able to rip somebody off
Lying and convoluted logic are acceptable if it will help me get what I want
A man without money is like a man without a penis

Winston has it all nailed down with the User/Taker mentality. That is at the core of all their dysfunctional behavior. They really can't seem to be able to help themselves if an opportunity arises for them to take something. It appears to be in their blood. What this means is that you really cannot ever trust your wife or best friends enough to make yourself vulnerable to them. I have had my heart broken by people who I thought loved me; maybe they did, but if they saw a chance to make a profit by betraying our relationship, they would do it. They knew it was wrong, but they couldn't resist.
If you want to understand how a Russian thinks, watch some mafia movies. They think like the mafia. Anyone is expendible for a profit.

I'd advise men to avoid the slavic countries and go to asia. People are decent here. Not so in Eastern Europe.

What you say? This hasn't been your experience? Well, this hasn't happened to you YET. You're Eligible Too.
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Postby ladislav » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:40 am

You just described the culture of some very very low class people there. How did you run into them? Also, you described the behavior of people in New York. Or any other big city.

I was born in Ukraine, and I grew up in Russia. First of all, this is my take on this- if you do not speak the language and they do not find you attractive as a person, forget it. You will attract bad elements there. Locals also attract bad elements but they know how to avoid them. Where in Russia did you live? Where in Ukraine did you live? Do you speak local languages? Because these are not English speaking countries.

Another thing that you and Winston and everybody else should keep in mind and ask themselves is- what is it about you that the Slavic people ( or any other people) may find attractive and fun? Your money and your nationality? Just that? Can you hold a conversation with them? Can you have interesting discussions in local languages? Tell jokes? Do you play the guitar? Do you write poetry? What can you present to people in those countries that will make you interesting in their eyes? How well do you know the local culture to charm the local women on their terms.?

Did you get in touch with good girls such as people who are into arts, who are writers and poets and the local intellegentsia- who do not speak English as a rule? Because I did. I had no problems with those. I was the problem myself because I did not want to commit to anyone. But if I had, I could find good people there.

I am now corresponding with a Russian girl in Orel. She loves the fact that my father had been a sculptor for the government in the region and built many monuments around there. She loves my art and my family origins. Herself, she is a playwrite and a theater major. We have a lot of things in common. Did you have anything in common with girls there and did you try to find it?

Also, in my class in high school there were great girls from many good families as well as bad girls. I could tell the difference. There were honor roll students who probably continued as virgins and honest people until their marriage and became good wives to someone. But this was in Tula, 180 km from Moscow. In a small high school there. No English there, no foreigners.

In those societies you need to know the rules. Do you know them? Can you operate by those rules?

In what part of the country(ies) did you travel? Because big city people are predatory everywhere. Try New York girls.

Did you go to the Russian Far East or the Ukraine small towns? Did you meet the people through proper introductions? Why would these people want to meet foreigners to begin with? Especially foreigners who do not speak their language?

Country girls in Ukraine are very sweet and very shy. You cannot just meet them easily. Russian girls in colleges are often intellectual but not in English. You need to court them on local terms. And yes, money is pat of it. But charm is another part of it. For example, I speak with a Southern Ukraine accent from the Odessa region. The girls all over East Slavic countries find the accent fascinating- it almost hypnotizes them. I also play the guitar and know how to charm them with sweet talk and I know all the terms of endearment in Russian and Ukrainian that sweeps them off thier feet. Do you?

I could not go to those countries for political reasons for decades. But I met a Russian girl in Manila and again, as usual, I can win her heart with sweet talk and singing and poetry and all kinds of little things. Money helps but without the former, you will never get a complete picture with them.


Finding good women in the US is twice as hard and there are also many rip offs but you know the rules and you know how to avoind dangers in the US. You did not know how to go about avoiding dangers there. And how to go about finding good people there.

In Asia people are better? Sometimes. Other people say - no. Asians can be sneakier plus many are racist and hate white people although they pretend they like you. Again, it depends in which circles you travel, how you approach people, how you deal with them, your status, etc.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
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Postby EvilBaga » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:41 am

: Shrug :

Either one could be right.
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Postby tjh14 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:31 pm

I am sorry to offend those of slavic descent, but I stand by what I say. I didn't expect anyone from those countries to agree. I have had people there argue that the most obvious things were not true. Large elements of denial, aka lying.

1) There is a real homeless problem, but the locals claim those crippled old women work for the mafia and are actually rich.
2) There is no alcohol problem, Russians know how to drink.
3) We are not depressed people, we just are of a stern countenance.

These were not low class women, au contraire.

Maybe it is truly different for a returning Russian or Ukrainian, but how many people fit that category? Not many.
I was in Kiev until February, and finding a foreign man to marry was the national female obsession.

It is a brutal society, and it is impossible to live there and not be affected by it. If you are from the west, the way people think in the FSU is simply beyond your comprehension.

Like the expression goes, a word to the wise is sufficient.

You have been warned.
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Postby ladislav » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:05 pm

You are right. But again,if you are an American and think and act like one and do not know the rules, you may not succeed there. You were in Kiev? I was there only once or twice. The place sucks. You need to go to smaller towns. I avoid capital cities like the plague there.

You need to be street smart in those places and you need to speak the language.

The women who want to marry foreign men there have an agenda.

Actually, I am not of Slavic descent but of Middle eastern heritage but I know the rules of those countries through and through.

I have lived in NY- in bad areas, got screwed over, lied to and deceived. Because I did not know the rules.

Know before you go. Study up. Or do not go at all.
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Postby Mr S » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:04 pm

There are good and bad people everywhere, some people are more prone to attract the negative ones over the positive. In regards to Asians being any better, I don't think so. I've been living in Asia for a number of years now and I have to watch out for scum bags on a daily basis trying to use me for whatever reason.

The way you get around this is by learning and being perceptive of body language. Also increasing ones energy and consciousness levels through meditation and other energy exercises will virtually eliminate a lot of negative energy coming your way whether it is physical or mental.

I don't have problems when I am out by myself. Occasionally if I am with someone they will attract something negative to him, her or us, but it generally clears aways once it reaches my vicinity.

Native Asians are usually a sneaky bunch, they don't have squinty eyes for no reason, right? :lol:
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Postby wuming » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:47 pm

Speaking of Asians, yes it's true that deceit, lying, and a crass worldliness have become common in China and some neighboring countries - I speak from shared experiences of people who know the culture well. Unfortunately, the destruction of the Chinese intellectual tradition by the early 20th century, and Communism afterward, lead to conditions of prolonged poverty, materially and spiritually. Once people saw a chance to escape material poverty, they took it (as would any of us), personal or societal ethics be damned.

The lack of a highly-educated and (more or less) free elite (top 20% of society) combined with lack of religious conditioning (bottom 80%) ensured that self-judgment and critical self-reflection would fade significantly, and not be systematically developed. Of course it's still there in some people, but compared to prior golden eras in Asia - when philosophy, ethics and honor were taken very seriously by society's upper class - it's a faint echo. One can still find excellent people, though it helps to start with pre-selected groups, like universities.
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Postby tjh14 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:32 am

I am not expecting that people will not go there anymore than people will avoid Las Vegas, but there are inherent risks in both. I had tons of fun at times, married one and lived there for a year. I don't regret the experience, but it wears most people down.
I just have to laugh when I read comments which minimize what people say, or attribute their experience to some defect on their part. I am not exaggerating, neither was Winston. I am not negative about the place for no reason.
If it is such a great place, why are people leaving the FSU in droves? Not because it is a Shangri-La, but because it is a frigid third world cesspool.
It isn't that way because I have bad Karma or energy or didn't use the right body language or don't know all the local customs, or some other stupid assumption.
It is an armpit because it is an armpit. It was that way before I arrived, and it is that way now. It's only real draw is a fascinating history and the best looking women on earth.
I spent lots of time in small towns, my wife was from a small town. I saw just as much criminal mentality, alcoholism in the small towns as the large ones.
There are lots of decent people there, amazingly. They have been through hell and still are good. Maybe I was too negative. It's the society that is the problem, and it will take generations to undo.

I wouldn't listen either when I was gung-ho about it, and I was once crazy about the place. Have fun, I'm done.[/img]
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Postby Winston » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:47 am

To the OP:

It looks like you've had similar experiences to what I had, after a long term experience.

Are you Asian or a minority though? Some say that Russians treat you more bad if you're a minority.

To Ladislav:

All the criteria you cite are factors to some extent, but they imply that our actions lead to such bad experiences and scamming in Russia, and do not look at the big picture nor explain everything.

How come I don't get scammed, robbed or even led to an ambush, in other countries, even among low class people?

Remember the scam that my buddy Vadim pulled on me? He also led me into an ambush where I was attacked physically. Full story here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/The_Privat ... e_Scam.htm

That has NEVER happened to me in other countries. None of my friends ever did anything like that to me.

Also, I've never been robbed before. Yet here is a highly elaborate technique of robbing that I experienced in Russia that I've never seen before.

http://www.happierabroad.com/2_Professi ... beries.htm

In that same account above, there is a story of a guy who got his drink spiked by a girl in a bar, causing him to lose his memory so that she could rob him. Do you know any Filipinas that do that? That happened to several guys I talked to.

Here are some factors to consider, taken from the treatise I wrote that the OP is referring to:

Am I to blame for all this? NO! Here’s why

Some people claim after reading all this that I must be to blame for all this opportunistic scamming behavior by Russians due to my poor judgment and dealing with lower class people. They argue that there are scammers and opportunists everywhere around the world, not just in Russia, so someone like me who looks for trouble always finds it. However this is a total copout, denial of truth, and does NOT account for everything that I and others describe.

Consider the following:

1) If Russia was the same as everywhere else, and I am just a trouble-seeker, then how come I don’t get scammed, conned and robbed in other countries the way I do in Russia? That right there debunks this silly notion, among others. NEVER have my own friends conned me, conspired against me in elaborate plots, or led me into an ambushed where I was attacked (as in The Private Police Scam). Stuff like that ONLY happened in Russia. What does that tell you?! So the question is, if the problem was me, then how come it doesn’t happen to me in other countries?!

The fact is that Russia has an extremely high crime rate, among the highest in the world, beyond what any research statistician could quantify. And no one, even the proudest Russian nationalist, could deny that. Therefore, the PERCENTAGE of scammers and opportunists in Russia is much HIGHER than other places. This copout excuse to pin the blame on me refuses to factor that in.

2) Dealing with lower class people is only a partial explanation. If it were merely about class, then how come the low class people I know in other countries do not pull the kind of crazy sh** that got pulled on me in Russia? I’ve met low class people in Western countries and even in Taiwan, and they usually had morals, self-respect and were not criminals, scammers or con artists. Nor did they pressure me to buy things for them. How do you explain that? So, class is a factor but it doesn’t explain everything.

3) Sure I do like to meet girls and date them, lots of them. That’s what I love about Russia, is that the girls there are not afraid or shy to talk to strangers, and you can make a date on the spot with them. But it’s not my fault if my “casting of the netâ€￾ draws many greedy users and scammers. I have no control over what comes my way and you know it. It’s simply a risk you take. But the thing is though, I’ve done this in other countries too, yet did not attract such types. Again, if the problem is me, how come this doesn’t happen in other countries in the degree that it happened in Russia?

Even if I were a “trouble-seekerâ€￾ it still changes nothing about the opportunistic behavior of many Russians that is world renown. (So renown globally in fact, that the remake movie of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" depicts Russian scammers even.)

4) Consider this also. Russia has a huge reputation for con artists (women and men) on the internet constantly trying to scam men into sending them huge amounts of case. How come foreign women from other countries don't have the same reputation? I’ve been involved in online dating for years and this problem comes primarily from Russia. Why is that? If the percentage of scammers is the same everywhere, then how can this be?! So again, I cannot logically be the source or cause of this greedy Russian behavior.

5) I’ve never had anything stolen in the US or other countries before, ONLY in Russia have I been robbed multiple times. What does that tell you? You can’t claim that the risk of theft is identical everywhere. Heck, even in a hostel in St. Petersburg, the security guard was caught by guests trying to steal their things, which the hostel administration did nothing about (after all Russians will defend their own no matter what). Theft is so common in Russia that every foreign visitor is warned about it by his/her Russian host. In fact, there are numerous Russian jokes making fun of theft in their country. Instead of denying it most Russian realists try to make humor out of it.

6) Another thing. People living in houses in Russia usually have them gated or live in gated communities. Supermarkets, hotels and shopping malls have security at the door who search everyone who walks in. If Russia was as safe as anywhere, then why the need for so much security? Think about it. In the US, you do not find security at the front of every public establishment and most homes are NOT gated, yet it’s relatively safe and I’ve never experienced any crime there (contrary to what you see on the news).

The logic of the above reasons, among others, is impeccable and irrefutable. Therefore, those who try to pin the blame on me have no argument or defense.

One of my readers made some excellent points about this:

“Any person who thinks that you are to blame for this is a moron. It is very logical that when a person goes on vacation, being scammed is the last thing on one's mind. Basically, Russians are saying that it is OK to scam someone just because we didn't have psychic powers to know who is a scammer and who isn't.

But, the trade off is that Russians have a bad reputation. Just look at how Western Europeans view Russians. In Spain, Russians have caused all types of problems with theft due to high car theft and burglary and scams. But, I guess it is Spain who should be blamed for allowing Russians in their country. Maybe they should have used their psychic powers. LOL!

Russians are ridiculous who claim that they have the right to scam or to think that foreigners should know. But, that's why Russians have such a horrible reputation. Every rich country prefers to deal with China thanks to Russia's attitude and lack of dependable people.â€￾


And other long time experiencers of Russia have said:
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Postby Winston » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:39 am

Here are some insights and causes into the Russian behavior and mentality, that someone explained to me once:

The Russian mind works completely different than the Western/American mind. Your article explains the symptoms, but not the cause. Here are my observations, based on six years of living with Russian.

Essentially pessimists.

The old saying in Russia, made famous by Viktor Chernomyrdin, is "We hoped for the best, but it turned out as usual." Russians do not believe that hard work, industry, and diligence produce anything other than a big fat durak with a sign reading "steal from me" around his neck. In Russia, commercial success is usually met with derision and theft. "Who does he think he is? He is no better than us!" Russians will actually destroy private property and infrastructure designed for their common good, rather than witness a neighbor rise from the masses. It is not uncommon for a successful merchant's store to be burned. Wealthy Russians live in gated communities with armed guards on constant patrol, and drive to work in bullet proof limousines. Why? The only things Russians hate more than their own miserable existence is the thought of someone else rising above theirs.

Because there is no reward for individualism, the Russian mind views everything around them as corrupt. Anyone who gets ahead must be a member of the corrupt bureaucracy and/or organized crime. "Only Mafioski drive Mercedes," is what my ex used to say.

What does the Russian then think of an American willing to share his financial largess? "He is an idiot." My ex-wife explained that she had no trouble taking from me because, "I earned it, by putting up with you."

Mir mentality.

For thousands of years, Russian culture was based on the mir. A mir is a small village ruled by a council. Until the Soviet era, the mir was the basic Russian unit of survival, because harsh living conditions made pioneering or entrepreneurship a very risky venture. All decisions were based on the collective good, rather than individual merit. This is what made Russia so susceptible to communism, because Russian had been a collective state from its outset. Outsiders were mistrusted or quickly put to death. All efforts were focused on saving enough food to survive through the next winter.

Why is it important to understand this mir mentality? First, Russians do not trust anyone other than members of their own mir. "I did not grow up with her, why would I wish to be her friend?" as my wife used to say. "You are not my family. I may be married to you, but you are not my blood." Such things sound horrible to Americans, but this is the basic Russian understanding. Second, Russians bear no hard feelings to horrible acts committed for the greater good. It is nothing to put grandmother out on the ice to freeze, if food supplies are dwindling. "She had a good life." This survival instinct means that a Russian will steal from you, betray you, or even kill you if she feels her survival depends on it. "You knew I was a Russian when you married me," should be the saying.

Ability to endure untold hardships, survival instinct.

Hitler did not understand the Russian mind. He surrounded both Stalingrad and Leningrad during WWII, laying siege to each. He cut off roads, rails, and air access to the cities. The Battle of Stalingrad raged for 199 days with total casualties of over 3,000,000. That was a cake walk compared to the Siege of Leningrad, which lasted 900 days. Hitler was determined to starve out the enemy at Leningrad (St. Petersburg). In response, the Russians ate shoe leather, boiled bookbindings to extract proteins, even consumed soil with a little sugar mixed in. Citizen deaths from starvation and exposure are estimated as high as 1.5 million people. In the end, the citizens of Stalingrad and Leningrad endured horrible deprivations and death, rather than surrender to a foreign will. Does an American really think he can wait 900 days to change the Russian mind? It will never happen. It's like that song by Offspring, "the more you suffer, the more it shows you really care, right?"

The history books are full of people who underestimated the Russian will. Hitler and Napoleon being the two most notable examples, but even lesser known Russians like Grand Duke Alexander of Novgorod, who lured a German army out onto the ice of Lake Chudskoye in 1240 where they broke through and drowned. "Nevsky" made a truce with the Mongols, rather than surrender to a Roman Catholic army.

Conclusion

I am sure there are "good" Russians, I just have never met any. These beautiful Russian women are the children and grandchildren of survivors who routinely lied, stole, and murdered when the circumstances called for it. They were taught that the mir is the only unit that needs protection or cooperation. They were raised on stories of foolish foreigners who underestimated the Russian will.

I would recommend Wedded Strangers: The Challenges of Russian-American Marriages by Lynn Visson before anyone considers a relationship with a Russian woman, particularly one they met on the Internet.

Keep up the good work Winston.
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Postby Winston » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:02 am

Mr S wrote:There are good and bad people everywhere, some people are more prone to attract the negative ones over the positive. In regards to Asians being any better, I don't think so. I've been living in Asia for a number of years now and I have to watch out for scum bags on a daily basis trying to use me for whatever reason.

The way you get around this is by learning and being perceptive of body language. Also increasing ones energy and consciousness levels through meditation and other energy exercises will virtually eliminate a lot of negative energy coming your way whether it is physical or mental.

I don't have problems when I am out by myself. Occasionally if I am with someone they will attract something negative to him, her or us, but it generally clears aways once it reaches my vicinity.

Native Asians are usually a sneaky bunch, they don't have squinty eyes for no reason, right? :lol:


Besides looks, Asian women on the whole are different from white women (including Russians) in that deep down they have a "caring sensitivity" which Ladislav also described as "a delicacy to them". It's hard to put into words, but many understand what I'm talking about. It's something that makes them more soothing and tender, as well as comfortable. This has an amazing effect on my emotions and soul. Maybe you don't notice it as readily, but since I'm Asian and the same way deep down, I do. This gentle caring sensitivity that Asians have deep down creates a bond and connection between them that can't be put in words (kind of like the bond between close girlfriends). And this is true even if I have nothing in common mentally with them.

Deep down, white women tend to be rough uncaring and cold in comparison. It's just their nature. It's not a conscious choice. That "soothing sensitivity" just isn't there.

Another advantage of Asian women is that they have soft silky skin that you can't find on white women. Plus, they tend to age better (not in the Philippines though, I'm talking about Chinese, Japanese and Korean women) and look far younger when they are 30 or 40 than white women do.

Yeah there are many greedy scammers in China. But the degree of it is much worse in Russia. In the Philippines for example, girls beg for money and pressure guys to spend yeah, but I've never had a girl spike my drink, or a guy lead me into an ambush. The frequency of the scams is higher in Russia, more extreme, and also done with a cold-hearted meanness as well. It's hard to explain, but the OP knows what I'm talking about, since he's been in Russia for a year too. (I know several guys who have worked in Russia for years who also concur with all this as well)

Like the OP said, Russia is fun and exciting, but eventually wears you down. So if you're going there, just keep that in mind and don't get too serious and take everything with a grain of salt.

And get familiar with the scams I've witnessed and experienced there, which are described at:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Russian_Scams.htm
Last edited by Winston on Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winston is right

Postby Winston » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:36 am

tjh14 wrote:I'd advise men to avoid the slavic countries and go to asia. People are decent here. Not so in Eastern Europe.


Wait, what you said applies mostly to Russia and Ukraine only right? Eastern Europe consists of Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, etc. too. Those countries do not have the reputation for incessant scamming that Russia does.

Even the remake of the movie "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" shows that a Russian claimant tried to give a fake ticket to win the raffle. lol

Also, none of the countries bordering Russia trust them, they all distrust them highly. The only pro-Russian country in Europe is Belarus, I heard.
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Postby tjh14 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:23 am

Wait, what you said applies mostly to Russia and Ukraine only right? Eastern Europe consists of Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, etc. too. Those countries do not have the reputation for incessant scamming that Russia does.


Yes, you are 100% correct. My mistake. In fact the 2 other countries that I visited in Eastern Europe(Poland and Hungary) were completely different than Russia or Ukraine. The people were friendly and helpful. Ask someone for help in Russia, and you might get lucky, but you typically will get the old soviet version of customer service, "screw you". In Poland I had people smile and seem to enjoy the process of helping a stranger. Wow. What an impression it made after coming from Russia.
The Poles I met hated Russians as well. They really did. Can you blame them?
In fact the western portion of Ukraine has a different flavor than the rest of the country, as it was under Polish rule for a while.

What an insult to the decent folks of Eastern Europe who had years of Russian society forced down their throats. My apologies!
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Postby ladislav » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:35 pm

Purely racist outbursts and generalizations based on limited experience. You would not be saying things like these about Japanese or Koreans or Blacks. You would hold your tongue and be far more careful.

These countries do not promise you anything. They do not call you there . You are on their territory and you need to do things the local way. If you feel you do not fit in there and do not make an effort to fit in, well, then it is hopeless. And if you do not speak the language and do not try to learn it , they are double not for you. Do not ever go there again. Like there are countries I would not go to again.

I was in Southern Ukraine in May and again, I fit in. At least after a week or two. People again started taking up to me. Girls there suck though because there are more guys than girls. But generally, I felt like a fish in water. Why is that? And I did not feel like the local soceity was mafia. because I knew where to go, who to meet- like my cousin who is a restaurator of antiquities and her friends. Like peasants in the villages- I could talk to them. Like computer specialists, like businessmen and managers, etc. They could not speak a word of English though. No problem for me, I can speak Ukranina and Russian and I know the local ways to a T. You see, again,I was not acting American when I went there. Although I could have.

Like they say in the US angrily to immigrants and expats, "You do not like America? Get the f*ck out, go back to where you came from and do not let the door slam you in the a** on the way out! Speak English here, this is America! Don't like it? Why are you still here, get your a** out of here you f***ing foreigner." Things like these are common expressions in the US. Heard them over and over again when I did thing in a non-American way or as much as squeaked about something I did not like in the US. That is why I studied English and adjusted and learned the culture, the Constitution etc. That is non negotiable! I bet you did not do it there. Did you?

You did not see or understand one million good things there. Did you? How could you? There is hardly even one roman letter there. Did you read local books and magazines? Did you meet local writers, poets and playwrites? Did you watch local theater plays? Could you understand them if you did?

The unfittability in another certain culture is common, anyway. I feel the same way about Thailand. I do not like the culture there and do not fit in. So I do not live there or go there again. I came, I saw, I did not like it. But it is a sovereign nation and they have the right to be the way they are. They did not invite me. I do not like it, I get out!

I lived in Russia from 4 to 14 and I loved it, though. I had oodles of friends and had a great time overall. But then I speak the language and I know how to go about doing things there.I also had no problem getting directions or help. Plus, Russia is huge. The Far East has great people. All wool and a yard wide. Have ever you been there?

Again, maybe because I know how to do things the locals way I did OK. Like ask directions in Russian. Speak in Russian. Think the Russian way. Catholic cultures next door seem better to you but they seem very cold to me. Also, it is hard to make friends there. I was born in the West of Ukraine- a very Catholic -polite place, a Nazi collaborator part of the country- and they kicked our family out of there because of our non Slavic ancestry in 1960. I could not even live in the city of my birth. Yes, siree. My family went to live in Russia and they accepted us and I grew up there. Had few problems. Never had so many friends and my family never met so many intellectuals and artists as they did in Russia.

You feel Poles and Western Ukrainians are better? Good for you! Go stay with them, please. I do not think so. They did me and my family a lot of harm. They have Nazis proclaimed as heroes. Nazi bunkers as restaurants. Did you see those?

Poles hate the Jews with fierce brutal hatred, not only the Russians. After the Holocaust, the Jews went back to thier homes and the Poles took those over and told them- "get out, or we will kill you" And kill they did. Poland has no Jewish community now to speak of. Polite my a**. What gives? And they hate Ukrainians, too. Treated them like serfs for centuries. Kicked all ethnic Ukrainians from Poland , killed many off, as well. That is why you had the Khmelnitzky rebellion during which Poles were skinned alive. The Poles sucked Ukraine dry for centuries until the patience wore off and all hell broke loose. They were killed like dogs. Yup, it is a brutal part of the world. Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen. Or learn to be a cook.

And Serbs hate the Croats. And Greeks hate the Albanians. Are you know going to partake in the E. Euro ethnic hatreds?

Hating other human beings whom you cannot even understand?

An American who does not know the local ways in those countries, does not know how to deal with people there on their terms and in their language has no business trying to live there. Visiting is different, of course.

You may ask me then if those places are so good, why I left? I left because I was a draft dodger running away from the war. Being the only son, I owed it to my family to get out. No other reason. Btw, if I want a Russian girl, or a Ukrainina girl, I know how to court them, charm them with my refined speech, manners and music and I can make sure they will hold on to me. See, I speak local, act local and do things on local terms. Most would not want to get rid of me to begin with. Too bad I like Asian girls so much better.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
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Postby tjh14 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:59 pm

You have my sympathies. It has got to be tough being Russian. The whole world has your number. But for God sakes man, learn to make sense. Your thinking is circular and convoluted; the perfect example of what one might expect in Russia. Too much vodka rots the brain, don't you know...

BTW,
Here are couple of links worth reading...

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op_ed/35354

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... sians.html

They behave the same way abroad as they do at home! :lol:

And another incredible story...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/200 ... aintstalin
tjh14
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