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Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.
Blacks and other non white immigrants go to Europe because they know they will get hired. And Latinos go to the US because they also know they will get hired and be well provided for.
These are blue collar people looking for menial work.
And Euros and White Americans are hiring them. Why? Whose fault is that? Why can't they hire, say Albanians? Why did the Germans bring in a million Turks and not a million Yugoslavians? Cause they cost less, that's why! They were invited. Now who is to blame here?
Now as far as the level of intelligence being lowered overall, well, what's to do? And if many go on welfare, whose fault is it that they are allowed to go on Welfare? Who is giving it to them and why?
IQ? What about some natural wisdom like making kids for your country? That is the ultimate expression of patriotism and brains. High IQ? Obviously not high enough to realize that if you do not have a happy family with many kids, your nation will become extinct.
And poor Latinos are smart enough to believe in marriage. There are not that many divorce signs in Spanish in East LA. They are repopulating the US- a society where finding true love and starting a family is so hard. Not among Latinos, though. So, are they smart that they believe that happiness is having a big happy family? Maybe natural wisdom and social intelligence cannot be measured by IQ tests.
Maybe they have something to teach the childless people with high IQs whose IQ will not be passed on because they have no kids.
Now, go to the airport in the US, and see who is coming from abroad. Any white men? Virtually none. Why not? Because life is better where they came from. So, no big families among whites, no white immigration- what European would want to live in the US nowadays? And you have what you have now.
What practical solution do you propose? A huge portion of old and new wealth in the US is because of these poor low IQ people who have been exploited for centuries.
As far as Blacks in Ukraine. Blacks who go to Ukraine are different from the ones who to W. Europe. Ukraine black immigrants do not go there to look for a job. These are very smart college kids and not blue collar laborers. They have to pay to study there. No one will give them a job there. They come with money, they pass difficult exams.
Mixed kids from them may even be smarter than the locals. Most of the "mulatto" guys I saw there looked sharp.
Many get into music because it is the quickest way to be appreciated for being black there. They may get into politics in the future. So dynamics there are different.
In case of Brazil, well, again blacks there were slaves. And then very poor after the liberation. And no college scholarships. The whites were immigrants from Europe that came with skills and money. Kind of like the US except that Brazil is not much into race science. All people are Brazilians there.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
This conversation could go on and on for an endless cycle of debate because in the end no matter how much concrete evidence one provides inevitably most people make decisions based on experiences and feelings. I personally understand what you are saying I just don't agree with the happy go lucky feeling of mass multi-racial integration of different races in ANY country, it doesn't work in the long run. This is from my own experiences and what I have personally researched through various sources. In most cases it just causes social inequalities and in many cases the long-term decline or break up of the original country into smaller ones of different ethnic majorities.
Just be aware that I am just as educated as you are, have my own intellectual strengths and weaknesses, have my own personal experiences in life, which a minority may be similar to yours but the majority are obviously quite different. So to say that your completely right based on your opinions and life viewpoints and mine are shit, or visa versa is in the end irrelevant.
We all experience life and reality the way we wish. My conclusions are opposite of yours. Many others think as I do also. It's just at the moment multi-racial integration is being used for political purposes with an over-all nefarious agenda of divide and conquer. Anybody that disagrees with multiculturalism is of course labeled a racist or ignorant or whatever. It's the same with global warming. The international elites keep pushing that down the worlds throat even though it's been proven a political con-game to control people with various new taxes and regulations. (But most people still get their news and information through the "controlled media", so why would they understand its a fraud?)
I will always promote human freedoms, liberties and personal rights, however I will never just go along with whatever is currently popular in society. I weigh the evidence and make my own decisions about life and allow that to guide my better judgement.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
I agree with most things you say, do not misunderstand me. It is just that in a place like Ukraine, the African blacks will simply disappear because they will just marry into the society and be bred out as a group, although they were never a united group to begin with. This is why Argentina has no blacks- bred out! There will not be a full scale black immigration any time soon into the country because of very low wages there, and because no one will give them jobs to begin with so only the ones with the money will come. And these are so few that they will simply be bred out, as well.
The ones who come are smart students who study engineering and economics and things like that. They are not lower classes, they are in fact the brightest of their countries because exams in Ukraine are very hard. And they have to take them in Ukrainian. Now think about how high those guys' IQ must be. They are not there to find employment. Some open up businesses in trading and sell things and help the economy. These are not those classes that you see in the UK or France or Germany that are there to go on Welfare. And the governments in those countries suffer from post colonial guilt and want to show that they are good boys now. Come here, Mr. Mumba, we are so sorry about all the Hottentot massacres, and our colonizing of your country. Here is welfare and please forgive us.
There is no welfare for them in Ukraine. Visas are only granted to those with money. Illegal immigrants are dealt with harshly. You can youtube "Ukraine illegal immigrant camp" to see the horrors.
And engineering students do not go around causing trouble walking up the the people and calling them honky mother---ers. So, in all fairness, an African guy who goes to an East European nation, learns the language, takes entrance exams in a tongue that even the locals cannot master, studies engineering, coal production, textile manufacturing, and then opens up a business must be appreciated and the locals do. He deserves to be there because he earned his place. Now, a ghetto thug will quickly be jumped on, unless he is in fact an entertainer who is also working hard organizing rap concerts etc. No louts will ever be allowed into that country simply because it has no colonial quilt, no PC and it demands assimilation from anyone who goes in. And no visa privileges to former colonial subjects because it did not colonize anyone in Africa. If history is any indicator, the people there would skin alive those who had tried to take advantage of the locals. Pitch forks will also come out and you are dead. The mixed kids will generally assume identities and dialects of the provinces and cities in which they live and be expected to be locals. The ones I saw were just in the crowd, walking with everyone else, being local and being accepted as one. No salad bowl US/UK "multiculturalism" is allowed.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
This is silly. You can go to any low gdp per capita developing country and find ultra-wealthy people living the high life. It's because corruption and wage inequality is so endemic that the poor majority are condemned to be poor forever and the small percentage of rich will be wealthy forever. The Ukraine even has a lower gdp per capita than Thailand.
Yeah, but you need to keep two things in mind: Thailand has been a capitalist kingdom uncolonized and uninvaded with a fairly stable gov't for a long time. Ukraine has had a horrible history with invasion, colonizations and very little experience with democracy and capitalism. The only gov't it knew that was its own was mainly Cossack military chiefs. It has now been independent for 20 years only. You need to give it some time.
Also, an enormous- huge part of income/GDP goes unreported. Corruption also means that huge numbers of wealth are just off the books. It is the same in the Philippines.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
GDP stats aren't done by polls or any other unreliable methods but actual economic and calculations. You can only hide so many billions and it will still reflect on larger economic projection data. It's pretty obvious how wealthy a country "really" is by their import/export stats and other figures.
Oh well, then what is the point here? That these people are worthless louts that cannot even get to Thailand's level? Give the country time, it's been on its own for 20 years only. And it has no friends, except maybe Austria. It has very little experience with self governance and the people also do not know how to be governed. It will get better yet.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
[quote]The Ukraine even has a lower gdp per capita than Thailand[quote]
Learn carefully the social structure of Ukraine's population: 26% are poor (17% urban and 43% of rural population), 8-10% - rich, and the rest actually
is non-poor (64-66%)
In Ukraine approximately 2% population living on less than 2 dollar a day ( for comparison: in Romania such 4,1%, Albania - 7,9%, Mexico - 8,2%, Brazil - 12,7%, South Africa - 42,9%, India - 75,6% )
source: 2009 UN Human Development Report
You compare the some indicators Ukraine and Thailand (HDI, infant mortality, literacy and others) We must not forget that Ukraine in 1990's was a huge economic downturn (in same time the Thailand's economy grew). Also, you not find slums in Kiev, such like in Bangkok.
In Ukraine really hard to do business. I know, there were 90's, some rich make starting capital by privatization and fraud. But is in past!!! Now is new time, now is 2011! Ukraine is changing every year. Today there are many successful, smart and talented people who are honest make money, without special privileges.
2011 Ukraine's GDP (PPP) per capita: $ 7130. But GDP only reflects the "official". It does not take into account the 'black and grey economy' , which makes up 45-60% of the real GDP in Ukraine (!) (for comparison: in countries of West Europe ranges from 3% to 8%) Official GDP does not take into account the accumulated wealth and assets (more difficult to estimate the real assets ukrainians, not to mention the money of the richest segment often kept in "secret accounts" in Switzerland, the Cyprus or other tax paradises (offshore) Yeah, inequality grows still, but no doubt about it that Ukraine not so poor as on paper (official GDP)
By the way, in this video, you can see not only the rich, but also the middle class! look closely ( eg many people in mall or those who buy plasma TVs and other consumer electronics (3:07 - 3:30)) Maybe in Thailand to the nightclubs and restaurants go only rich , but in Ukraine this can afford and middle class. Even woman on a BMW may considered as middle class.
Last edited by Google on March 30th, 2011, 11:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Very interesting Google. I see you are in Ukraine. Are you native to Ukraine or are you an Expat?
I'm curious, how much would one need to earn in Ukraine to be considered an Average provider? Like what salary would a Ukrainian woman consider to be that of an average guy? What would be the salary point that would be the start of what would be considered rich? It seems that in the US, these points are 50k and 400k respectively. I ask this because I'm curious how much I would need to earn there to be very impressive to the Ukrainian women if I move there.
Yes, i'm born and live in city Lviv in west Ukraine
I'm think need $ 350 -700 per month that to be considered an Average provider) Approximately $ 12000 a year - is start point salary what would be considered rich.
This is for Google:
Расскажи мужикам про этот форум, пусть меньше сюда едут в Америку. А то приезжают как и я в своё время и в ахуе от здешних ожиревших баб. Львов красивый город, радуйся что живешь в Украине, я сам может вернусь в ближайшие 2-3 года.
This is for you guys, it's a video made by BBC about my hometown of Dnepropetrovsk. I really like it, although it does not show everything, I think it's the most unbiased Western-made video I could find so far. Also keep in mind, the city looks MUCH better during summer months, also much warmer of course. Climate is somewhat similar to NY, but more mild during the summer: