Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.
Surprisingly... so called Poor Ukraine is third in Europe by total number of luxury cars, after Russia and Germany. Paradox! Among such fancy cars in Ukraine are dominated Bentley, which can be found even on the streets of some provincial towns.
Last edited by Google on Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
It is no paradox. If people below you have small salaries/income and the taxes are low, the few that are rich can have big incomes at the expense of the poor. It is the same with the salaries of presidents in 3d world countries. They are in millions.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Although GDP is often used to measure how well off people are in a material sense, it has serious deficiencies as a measure of economic welfare.
2010 Thailand's GDP (PPP) per capita - $9187, Ukraine's - only $6700. But Thailand richer than Ukraine only "on paper"
Look on other figures:
According to a UN-Habitat report, in the Thailand 26% of urban population live in slums! in Ukraine - 3% (<)
2009 UN Human Development Report shown: in Thailand 11,5 % of population living under 2 dollar (PPP) a day, in Ukraine - under 2% population
Human Development Index (HDI) : Thailand (0.654 (medium human developmnt, 92nd in the world) Ukraine (0.710 (high human development) 71 )
I think this is enough.
Last edited by Google on Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ladislav you translate the text of the song not quite correctly.
she are singing: i'm leaving golden cities forever swearing to myself that i'll never return, golden youth loves golden lies, golden pain of departures (parting?) is pleasant ( золотая боль разлук приятна)
Your link no longer valid, but I found original video this song.
This is an old video, 2006, singer name Margarita Smelyanskaya-Galitskaya (RI)
This is stupid. Ukraine is a poor country. There is always going to be the rich in every country. And this middle class is not a big percentage and they do not buy BMWs, at least new models With so much corruption, the EU will never allow it to join. They made that mistake with Bulgaria and Romania, and they won't try again with Ukraine.Even Turkey has a better shot but if it weren't for the Kurds and Armenian issues, it would have been a member years ago.
Capital cities in Europe even during the Cold War time always had the higher wealth factor. It has beautiful women, and that is a fact aside from a rich history.
Unwise to consider that Ukraine is a poor country. Of course, compared to the U.S., Ukraine poorer, but NOT poor. If Ukrainians have lower wages than people in US or EU, that it does not mean that they have low living standards. This is stupid if considered Ukraine country where poor constitute a dominant group.
The human development index measures other things aside from monetary prosperity but also quality of healthcare, education etc.. Ukraine's 71 is still really low and i'll stand by the comparison. Actually Malaysia, Libya, Cuba, and Mexico even ranks higher than the Ukraine which is pretty bad to be honest. Libya even went through a war fairly recently. Anything outside of the first 30 places is usually terrible and most of the world is still mired in poverty, inequality, and terrible health standards.
I have a question. If you doubt the income stats from economists and business trade where is all this Ukrainian secret money hidden away at? What competitive global industry is the Ukraine involved in? Where does this mystery wealth come from? Magic beans? You seem to have a poor understanding of global trade. Even hidden "black" money paid under the table is traceable in trade statistics when you sift through import/export data. Especially if a large portion of the population are buying Bentleys and private jets like you are trying to claim in here. That would be extremely noticeable.
Just because you spotted some rich oligarch's corrupt worthless son and model girlfriend cruising around in his Ferrari doesn't mean the Ukraine is doing great.
I see that shit all the time in Thailand as well.
Let's look at the CIA worldfactbook real quick..
The vast majority of the country is in the "service" industry which means it's heavily weighted towards domestic economy and not competitive global trade.
The Ukraine also exports a lot of natural resources oil, metals, etc.. to Russia and imports finished goods in return. That's even worse.
That explains where all the wealth goes..to rich resource oligarch's who flaunt it in the faces of the regular population. That's not rich it's called corruption.
In its 2010 Human Development Report the UNDP began using a new method of calculating the HDI and taken into account Gross national income at purchasing power parity per capita, but this figure is understated for Ukraine. If taken into account of the shadow economy, Ukraine would have a much higher position. Although even the 71st (of 172) is not so bad, because it's considered a high HDI, not an average or low.
Switzerland, Cyprus... some ukrainian super rich are buying companies and mines abroad, including in USA, Australia and others countries, using their money from offshore. By last years, according to estimates, from Ukraine to offshore were exported 350 billion dollars.
You don't know about smuggling and the corruption in customs or about complicated offshore schemes?
At a press conference, Vice-President and Head of the Kyiv Ukrlehprom employers organization in light industries Alexander Sokolowski said the total apparel market in the country is estimated at $ 10 billion, while statistics show only $ 500 million (!!!)
I'm live in Ukraine and i know way more about the country than you do. I have not seen any Ferrari, Rolls-Royce or Maybach in the Lviv, city where I live. My city considered a poor, compared to Kiev, Dnipropetrovsk or Donetsk, where live almost all super rich ukrainians. In Lviv average salary "on paper" is just $ 320 a month. But in same times, i may see more new cars for middle class people in Lviv, such like Mitsubishi, Toyota Camry, Land Cruiser, Mazda CX7, Lexus RX, Infiniti FX, BMW X6 and others. You are mistaken if thinking that all these cars are buying only small numbers of rich.
Ukraine is not Thailand!
I must agree with one thing- Ukraine is much poorer than it should be and it should be a 1st World country like France or at least like Italy. The people are too smart and too hard working for the place to have this type of GDP/GNP/ PPP or whatever this is called. It is a disgrace. I have lived in both Thailand and Ukraine and you cannot compare the education and general intelligence of an average Ukrainian to that of an average Thai.
And the country has all the natural resources and all the potential to move it into a 1st World Status.
It can start with tourism, for one. It has to develop the infrastructure to get 50 million tourists a year, not 15 as it gets now. It needs to advertise itself more. Then, other industries will follow. Ukrajnians need to move away from Russian and learn English. It needs to modernize its nationality system and stop dividing people by ancient ancestry thus creating disunity in the population. It needs to fire Soviet era politicians and instead bring some Western educated people and put them in the gov't so that they could modernize the country. It needs to promote foreign investment, move away from nationalistic policies and invite everyone to build factoriesm open up banking offices and use every inch of the land productively. Rich Arabs are nearby. Invite them! China is not far, invite those. Germany should now come in as an investor and not an invader.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I hesitated: to post them in this topic or not?, but still decided to show a few ...
so... photos of Ukrainian city Lviv, made by me a few weeks ago:
more my photos here: http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/mr-google- ... 9247/?p=10
Lviv is damn beautiful, no doubt about it.
Was thinking about student immigration to Canada, but now hesitating ... all that unemployment situation, plus it looks like Ukraine is going to improve faster and faster.
Today internet rulez the situation and culture everywhere comes globalized and mindset of people do not differ as much as 10 years before, its gonna be the same soon.
I fear that i'll face the situation when country i immigrate to will loose in development to Ukraine in time...thats a suck up.
Last edited by polya on Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." Cato the Elder
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