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Latin women not wife material?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Latin America, Mexico, or Central America.

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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby MrMan » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:59 pm

Latinos are really diverse. There are lots of Latino cultures. Mexico City culture isn't identical to Argentinian culture down on the Pampas. There are all kinds of Indian subcultures in Latin America, and those tribes have their own culture. Then there are Spanish cultures that have evolved over time. Argentina had Italian and German immigrants, too. Brazilian culture draws from Portugal rather than Spain.

Latinos can be conservative in a lot of ways or liberal in a lot of ways. I've seen some Latinos who seem to be recent immigrants who dress in ways I don't consider too modest. There are girls who walk around with exposed midriffs with globs of flab hanging over and stuff like that. Then there are conservative Latinos who don't let their daughters go out on a date without a chaperone.
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby Tapatio89 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:26 pm

OTB wrote:What's up guys? I need to get this off my mind and just looking to get some feedback on the topic.

This has been on my mind for months now but Latin women just do not strike me as wife material. I'm not trying to make a generalization here but the only ones that strike me as wife material are Mexican women. The majority of Latin women I see seem too slutty and common for me.

I joined LatinAmericanCupid a couple of months ago and all the women seem so slutty and runned down. They lack education. They ALWAYS have kids. You also see this all the time with Hispanic women in the States. It seems like most of the women on that site try to sell they're beauty or their sluttiness. But I see right through them.

Now, I speak Spanish, I've spent more time in Latin America than any other region in the world, and I enjoy learning about Latin American history, culture, etc. So I've always felt that maybe Latin America is my best choice to find a wife. Latinos always think I'm Latino. Especially when I speak Spanish. I enjoy mingling with Latin women and I always get signs of interest from them. However they have been turning me off lately. I've always felt that Asian women might be a better fit for my personality. I guess I hold on to the thought of being with a Latina because I feel like they fit me due to the reasons I mentioned previously; speaking Spanish, etc. But I think Asian women have the wholesome femininity, intelligence, and class that attracts me.



Do you understand where I'm coming from? Does anyone else see Latin women as no better than American women? Mexican women being the exception.


I agree with you. I am Mexican, from Guadalajara but now living in Mexico City. I used to live in the US for 14 years (did my middle and high school there, as well as my bachelor´s degree). Now, I came back to Mexico one year ago and I am married to my Japanese girlfriend of three years. I prefer much more Asian and Arab women than Latin women (though I will admit I prefer Latin and Mediterranean women over an American or Nordic woman).

I am not typical Latino man which often are portrayed as being extroverted, aggressive when pursuing women, loud, and insensitive. Rather, I am introverted, shy, sensitive, and serious (I rarely smile in public), but at the same time ambitious, money oriented, goal oriented, direct, reliable, and faithful, qualities rarely found on Latin people. For me, an unreliable, dishonest girl is a HUGE turn off.

I never had a Latin gf, but the Latin girls I have dated and seeing girls at work or in the street, most Latin women (Mexican included. I am not sure why you think they are different) tend to like aggressive, extroverted type of men even though by any rational person standards, most of these type of men do not make good husbands as often they are the womanizing or unreliable type of men. Ironically, Latin women want to blame men for everything, but objectively speaking, many times they choose those type of men and if you are ambitious or responsible, they see you as "boring". And in many cases, Latin women are equally as unreliable as the average Latin man. So, they should not complain. One attracts based on who you are as a person.

With Asian and Arabic women, in my experience. They are very different from Latin women. They tend to put priority on stability, intellect, and reliability than superficial things. I am not ugly (8/10 from what people have told me and I consider myself that), and at first Latin women do find me good looking physically from what they have told me, but it is my personality which they do not like. Asian and Arabic girls, they like a lot my personality.

It seems Asian and Arabic women are wiser when choosing a man than Latin women are.
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Re: Re:

Postby pete98146 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:11 pm

Jester wrote:
pete98146 wrote:
I've always thought the biggest problem is that Latin women don't assimilate very well outside of the non-Latin world. Granted Seattle doesn't have the largest Latin community so my point of reference may be too narrow but Latins tend to stay with other Latins. So you'd have to immerse yourself into her culture because it seems it's not a two way street.

I'm an insurance agent and I deal with a large cross section of people. I'm normally very good about picking up vibes. Asian women generally show interest and are willing to date outside of their race. Latin women? Just the opposite. It's VERY VERY rare to get a positive vibe from them. It's a shame because I find their women very pretty.



Latins will date Armenians, so the dating is not a problem for me in Glendale. In Baja, they dont know what an Armenian is, so I'm considered Guero, and there is a bit of a barrier.

But your first paragraph was referring to what happens AFTER forming a relationship, I think. And that IS a problem, even in Glendale. Mexican women LIKE Armenian men, but they dont assimilate into the culture well. Being with a Mexican woman tends to pull you into her orbit. Let's say she invites 4 of her friends over. Let's say three of the four are into you and flirt with you. One of those three is hot, and all four are dressed to show off. My lady has no problem with my talking with her friends, eyeing them, etc. But so what? What am I going to do, sneak around and play games? No way. So after a bit of flirtation, the ladies settle down into chick-talk. In Spanish. Boring to me. Same thing happens when its just her family. They'll chatter over little things, but not worry about translating. And a lot of the talk is just gossip, or mundane stuff. NOT like having a table full of bantering intellectuals, or clowning, arguing Armenians. And because your lady has a full calendar of events to drag you to, you stop going to anything else. So you get lots of eye candy, and alcohol, and Latin music, but little food for the egghead soul, no alt rock, no politics, no opinionated opinions, and very few jokes.

So Pete, you're saying that in your AM-Pinay marriage, this is NOT an issue?


This is not an easy question to answer and only because my wife is a bit of an oddity when compared to your typical simple Filipina. I'll do my best to explain what I mean. I purchased my house from a good friend of mine who is a Filipina back in 1997. She did a good job of explaining that certain Filipinos harbor a great resentment towards their native country because The Philippines never offered them an opportunity for a better life. The resentment is normally coming from the smarter, higher achieving Filipinos that once they escape the Philippines, they have no desire to look back. Sadly, as a result, when they get to America, they won't go out of their way to befriend other Filipinos here in America. On the other hand, they do not become "white washed" at all. She loves to watch Filipino tv and loves Filipino food and she keeps in touch with her family who still reside back in Iligan City.

My wife Cathy has always felt like she's been the "black sheep" and she was picked on as a kid for having brains, beauty and being a bit different. So she tells me she feels a bit out of place in her own country.

She's been here in Seattle for 9 years and she's never been back to Phils. As a matter of fact, when we go on vacation, we visit Thailand and fly her mom and brother over to meet us there. I bring up the option of visiting the Phils and she says, "there's not much more there for me to see...let's go elsewhere."

She's truly on her own little island behavior wise. Many on this forum will think, "oh Pete's wife is turning into a bitchy American woman" and that couldn't be farter from the truth. She's still very soft, feminine, traditional and loving so I'm not worried about her converting any time soon.

That's a very long way of saying that if you put my wife in a large group of Filipinos, I'm not 100% guaranteed that she'll be comfortable. She may go participate in the group for half an hour and more than likely she'll come back and sit on my lap to escape the group. We've been to dinner parties with a dozen other Filipinos. I'll look over and she'll be zoning out.

So the overall group of Filipinos may exhibit behavior that you talk about above but my wife may not be participating in that group. Hope this clarifies.
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Re: Re:

Postby Tapatio89 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:19 pm

Interesting about your wife, Pete. My wife is also Asian, but not Filipina. She is Japanese. I am Mexican. And even more of an oddity for some people here, she is 5 years older than me. She is 31, and I am 26. I can relate to some degree with your wife as I do not consider myself typical Mexican or Latino in behaviour, mentality and ethics. But, being different is good as I do not want to be like the rest. I like to be original, and I bet your wife feels the same.

How has been your experience with Asian girls vs Latinas or Asian girls vs American girls?
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Re: Re:

Postby pete98146 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:01 am

Tapatio89 wrote:Interesting about your wife, Pete. My wife is also Asian, but not Filipina. She is Japanese. I am Mexican. And even more of an oddity for some people here, she is 5 years older than me. She is 31, and I am 26. I can relate to some degree with your wife as I do not consider myself typical Mexican or Latino in behaviour, mentality and ethics. But, being different is good as I do not want to be like the rest. I like to be original, and I bet your wife feels the same.

How has been your experience with Asian girls vs Latinas or Asian girls vs American girls?


I wish I had more experience with Latin women because I love their look. My wife works with a few young Mexican cuties and boy are they fun to look at :) When I was younger and in my peak dating zone, I would have had no problems dating them but never had the opportunity. I think they prefer to date within....similar to folks from India, Vietnam, Russia etc.

Asian ladies are a different story. They have no problems dating outside their race and in fact sometimes they prefer it. Problem is that there is a lot of competition for the Asian hotties in Seattle. That's what made me go looking abroad for one.

Now how do Latin and Asian women compare to American women? First thing that comes to mind is that they are soft and feminine. I'll be the first to admit that I'm rather old school. I want my woman to be a woman! I find very few American women attractive. The ones that are attractive are mobbed by guys so why bother. Asian and Latin women are also more traditional which I enjoy.

Great that your wife is Japanese! They are sweethearts too. Lucky you!!!
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Re: Re:

Postby Tapatio89 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:07 am

pete98146 wrote:
Tapatio89 wrote:Interesting about your wife, Pete. My wife is also Asian, but not Filipina. She is Japanese. I am Mexican. And even more of an oddity for some people here, she is 5 years older than me. She is 31, and I am 26. I can relate to some degree with your wife as I do not consider myself typical Mexican or Latino in behaviour, mentality and ethics. But, being different is good as I do not want to be like the rest. I like to be original, and I bet your wife feels the same.

How has been your experience with Asian girls vs Latinas or Asian girls vs American girls?


I wish I had more experience with Latin women because I love their look. My wife works with a few young Mexican cuties and boy are they fun to look at :) When I was younger and in my peak dating zone, I would have had no problems dating them but never had the opportunity. I think they prefer to date within....similar to folks from India, Vietnam, Russia etc.

Asian ladies are a different story. They have no problems dating outside their race and in fact sometimes they prefer it. Problem is that there is a lot of competition for the Asian hotties in Seattle. That's what made me go looking abroad for one.

Now how do Latin and Asian women compare to American women? First thing that comes to mind is that they are soft and feminine. I'll be the first to admit that I'm rather old school. I want my woman to be a woman! I find very few American women attractive. The ones that are attractive are mobbed by guys so why bother. Asian and Latin women are also more traditional which I enjoy.

Great that your wife is Japanese! They are sweethearts too. Lucky you!!!


The Latinas and particularly the Mexican girls I met in the US (East Coast) were mostly ugly. They were mostly fat, dress gangster like, and looked too Indigenous or mulatto and low class for my taste as I prefer a girl from the same social status as mine (middle class) as I can tell easily what social class a Latino or Mexican person is (speech pattern, clothing/fashion sense, way of walking). I am attracted only to Latinas that are light mestizas or Mexican girls that look Mediterranean (Spanish, Italian, Greek, Lebanese), and both of these type of Mexicans have big eyes as I prefer big eyes on women, not tiny eyes like the ones found in Indigenous women. I am also not attracted to Latinas who physically look Nordic/Anglo-Saxon. Too pale for me and snobbish.

I am a mixture of traditional and modern. I like a woman who dresses feminine and sexy(stockings, high heel shoes, skirts, etc) but at the same time she is powerful, ambitious, and goal oriented as for me, a lazy woman with no ambition is a huge turn off. My wife she has those qualities.

Thank you kindly, sir. I consider myself lucky to have her as my wife. She is not submissive at all like many gringos seem to think (Latinos we do not tend to think like that about Asian girls). She is quite dominant at home, but I am tolerant about it as my wife also has seen my Latin temper and jealousy XD
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby Yohan » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:36 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IvbgLASQIY[/youtube]

Feminism in Latin America...
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby Tapatio89 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:07 pm

Yohan wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IvbgLASQIY[/youtube]

Feminism in Latin America...


LOL, kind of ridiculous and an unpractical approach to get women´s rights not to mention vulgar. I believe men and women are equal, but this way is not the way to do it.
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby fschmidt » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:31 am

My wife is Mexican, so of course I disagree with the title of this thread. Most women in all countries these days are not wife material. As the world decays, finding a wife becomes more challenging. Marriage is breaking down everywhere including Japan.

An asian wife would have never worked for me because I am bad at reading subtle emotional clues. If my wife is upset, I would much rather that she scream at me than that she play some game that I have to figure out. Latin women are much more obvious about how they feel than asian women are. Since I am very emotionally stable, a woman can scream at me all she wants and it really has no impact. If the screaming is too loud, I close the door.

Of course I don't know how things are today since I have been married for 24 years. The moral backbone of Mexico was the Catholic Church. Catholicism was a fairly good religion in the past, but it has turned to shit recently. This pretty much guarantees that Mexico will be a moral cesspool for the foreseeable future. The main advantage of Mexico is that it is too poor and corrupt to effectively enforce the insane feminist laws that it has imported from America. So women there will never be as spoiled as American bitches.
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby Tapatio89 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:16 am

fschmidt wrote:My wife is Mexican, so of course I disagree with the title of this thread. Most women in all countries these days are not wife material. As the world decays, finding a wife becomes more challenging. Marriage is breaking down everywhere including Japan.

An asian wife would have never worked for me because I am bad at reading subtle emotional clues. If my wife is upset, I would much rather that she scream at me than that she play some game that I have to figure out. Latin women are much more obvious about how they feel than asian women are. Since I am very emotionally stable, a woman can scream at me all she wants and it really has no impact. If the screaming is too loud, I close the door.

Of course I don't know how things are today since I have been married for 24 years. The moral backbone of Mexico was the Catholic Church. Catholicism was a fairly good religion in the past, but it has turned to shit recently. This pretty much guarantees that Mexico will be a moral cesspool for the foreseeable future. The main advantage of Mexico is that it is too poor and corrupt to effectively enforce the insane feminist laws that it has imported from America. So women there will never be as spoiled as American bitches.


I would have to disagree in some things. Maybe on average Latin women are more direct (although not as much as American women) in comparison to Asian girls (my wife is the exception), but Latin women do not take things seriously when it is needed, lie often, unreliable, spendthrifts, not punctual, lack ambition, too much idealistic for my tastes. Asian women are more reliable, goal oriented, and are more practical when it comes to money. Japanese women are equally as fashion conscious as Latin women, but the big difference is Japanese women go for quality than quantity.

As for the character, I can tolerate a woman with strong temper, in fact, I prefer those type of women. My wife is like that.

Mexico is not a poor country. It is one of the largest economies in the world, but it is the income inequality that is keeping it out of moving forward. And the reason why feminism is not as popular as it is in North America or Northern Europe it has nothing to do with economics or how rich a country is but more from society itself. Even women here most find it quite foreign and weird the Anglo Saxon type of feminism. The feminism here in Mexico primarily cares more about women´s more access to jobs and equal pay, not as much as being masculine looking bitches like women from the English-speaking world often are. That does not fly in other countries and is mostly endemic to the Anglosphere.

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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby fschmidt » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:51 am

Tapatio89 wrote:I would have to disagree in some things. Maybe on average Latin women are more direct (although not as much as American women) in comparison to Asian girls (my wife is the exception), but Latin women do not take things seriously when it is needed, lie often, unreliable, spendthrifts, not punctual, lack ambition, too much idealistic for my tastes. Asian women are more reliable, goal oriented, and are more practical when it comes to money. Japanese women are equally as fashion conscious as Latin women, but the big difference is Japanese women go for quality than quantity.

Most of the issues you mention with Mexican women applies to Mexican men just as much. The basic issue is a lack of self-discipline. We strictly keep shabbat at my home, something my wife follows. Moses invented this practice as a way to teach discipline to former slaves, but it works with anyone, even Mexican women. So the problems you mentioned are solved.

Mexico is not a poor country. It is one of the largest economies in the world, but it is the income inequality that is keeping it out of moving forward. And the reason why feminism is not as popular as it is in North America or Northern Europe it has nothing to do with economics or how rich a country is but more from society itself. Even women here most find it quite foreign and weird the Anglo Saxon type of feminism. The feminism here in Mexico primarily cares more about women´s more access to jobs and equal pay, not as much as being masculine looking bitches like women from the English-speaking world often are. That does not fly in other countries and is mostly endemic to the Anglosphere.

I assume you are young, so you don't understand the changes that have happened in both Mexico and America. American women really weren't so bad before feminism ruined them. If you give any women too much power, they will become intolerable bitches, it really doesn't matter what their cultural background is. It is only after American women got government support in the economy and in divorce that they became the masculine bitches they are today. In the last 10 years, Mexico has adopted most of the crazy feminist laws that America has, but they aren't enforced effectively. This is what I understand from conversations with my wife's family. As long as the Mexican government doesn't enforce these crazy laws, Mexican women will remain reasonably feminine. If you disagree and think latin women are basically different, just visit Chile to see some latin masculine bitches for yourself.
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby Tapatio89 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:24 pm

fschmidt wrote:
Tapatio89 wrote:I would have to disagree in some things. Maybe on average Latin women are more direct (although not as much as American women) in comparison to Asian girls (my wife is the exception), but Latin women do not take things seriously when it is needed, lie often, unreliable, spendthrifts, not punctual, lack ambition, too much idealistic for my tastes. Asian women are more reliable, goal oriented, and are more practical when it comes to money. Japanese women are equally as fashion conscious as Latin women, but the big difference is Japanese women go for quality than quantity.

Most of the issues you mention with Mexican women applies to Mexican men just as much. The basic issue is a lack of self-discipline. We strictly keep shabbat at my home, something my wife follows. Moses invented this practice as a way to teach discipline to former slaves, but it works with anyone, even Mexican women. So the problems you mentioned are solved.

Mexico is not a poor country. It is one of the largest economies in the world, but it is the income inequality that is keeping it out of moving forward. And the reason why feminism is not as popular as it is in North America or Northern Europe it has nothing to do with economics or how rich a country is but more from society itself. Even women here most find it quite foreign and weird the Anglo Saxon type of feminism. The feminism here in Mexico primarily cares more about women´s more access to jobs and equal pay, not as much as being masculine looking bitches like women from the English-speaking world often are. That does not fly in other countries and is mostly endemic to the Anglosphere.

I assume you are young, so you don't understand the changes that have happened in both Mexico and America. American women really weren't so bad before feminism ruined them. If you give any women too much power, they will become intolerable bitches, it really doesn't matter what their cultural background is. It is only after American women got government support in the economy and in divorce that they became the masculine bitches they are today. In the last 10 years, Mexico has adopted most of the crazy feminist laws that America has, but they aren't enforced effectively. This is what I understand from conversations with my wife's family. As long as the Mexican government doesn't enforce these crazy laws, Mexican women will remain reasonably feminine. If you disagree and think latin women are basically different, just visit Chile to see some latin masculine bitches for yourself.


You are Jewisht if I may ask? I ask because you said a Hebrew term. Anyway, I agree with you that Mexican men also have those flaws equally as Mexican women (lying, spendthrift, idealistic, etc), but I am not like that. I am very careful with my money and only spend what is needed. My Mexican friends think I am a miser, but I do not care as they often complain when an emergency comes and they spent all if not most of their money carelessly.

I might be young but I am not stupid, and I lived in the US for 14 year, so I think I know about the United States, mate. I am aware the US was not like that before the feminist movement. But not enforcing some of the laws here in this country it is a problem as I think it is important that the fathers here are obligated to pay child support instead of being irresponsible. Well, Chilean women are not as bad as American women and have met plenty. And also in comparison to Mexican women, more reliable and honest. A woman can be femenine and still be responsible and reliable. For me, Mexican and most Latin women do not work for me not because of physical beauty (they are beautiful like Asian and Arab women are my type too), but my mentality/ethics/values and theirs are like night and day.
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby fschmidt » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:09 pm

Tapatio89 wrote:You are Jewisht if I may ask? I ask because you said a Hebrew term. Anyway, I agree with you that Mexican men also have those flaws equally as Mexican women (lying, spendthrift, idealistic, etc), but I am not like that. I am very careful with my money and only spend what is needed. My Mexican friends think I am a miser, but I do not care as they often complain when an emergency comes and they spent all if not most of their money carelessly.

I might be young but I am not stupid, and I lived in the US for 14 year, so I think I know about the United States, mate. I am aware the US was not like that before the feminist movement. But not enforcing some of the laws here in this country it is a problem as I think it is important that the fathers here are obligated to pay child support instead of being irresponsible. Well, Chilean women are not as bad as American women and have met plenty. And also in comparison to Mexican women, more reliable and honest. A woman can be femenine and still be responsible and reliable. For me, Mexican and most Latin women do not work for me not because of physical beauty (they are beautiful like Asian and Arab women are my type too), but my mentality/ethics/values and theirs are like night and day.

I am ethnically Jewish but I don't follow Judaism, I follow the Old Testament.

Yes Chilean women are not as bad as American women, but they are much worse than Mexican women.

You are making an unforgivable mistake in supporting the idea of child support. This puts the entire burden of responsibility of the men, as well as supporting sluts and their bastard offspring. Ideally sluts and their children should starve to death and the men who got them pregnant should be castrated, but I am just dreaming here.

Please tell me what you think caused your mentality/ethics/values to be different from other Mexicans.
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Re: Re:

Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:21 am

Tapatio89 wrote:Interesting about your wife, Pete. My wife is also Asian, but not Filipina. She is Japanese. I am Mexican. And even more of an oddity for some people here, she is 5 years older than me. She is 31, and I am 26. I can relate to some degree with your wife as I do not consider myself typical Mexican or Latino in behaviour, mentality and ethics. But, being different is good as I do not want to be like the rest. I like to be original, and I bet your wife feels the same.

How has been your experience with Asian girls vs Latinas or Asian girls vs American girls?

A mi me encantan japonesas y japonesotas. I like their pelitos abajo too. I tell them, "No te depiles pa nada!" They don't usually shave it, which I'm very enamored by!! Como salvaje is the way to go! jajajajaa jaja
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Re: Latin women not wife material?

Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:36 am

fschmidt wrote:
Tapatio89 wrote:You are Jewisht if I may ask? I ask because you said a Hebrew term. Anyway, I agree with you that Mexican men also have those flaws equally as Mexican women (lying, spendthrift, idealistic, etc), but I am not like that. I am very careful with my money and only spend what is needed. My Mexican friends think I am a miser, but I do not care as they often complain when an emergency comes and they spent all if not most of their money carelessly.

I might be young but I am not stupid, and I lived in the US for 14 year, so I think I know about the United States, mate. I am aware the US was not like that before the feminist movement. But not enforcing some of the laws here in this country it is a problem as I think it is important that the fathers here are obligated to pay child support instead of being irresponsible. Well, Chilean women are not as bad as American women and have met plenty. And also in comparison to Mexican women, more reliable and honest. A woman can be femenine and still be responsible and reliable. For me, Mexican and most Latin women do not work for me not because of physical beauty (they are beautiful like Asian and Arab women are my type too), but my mentality/ethics/values and theirs are like night and day.

I am ethnically Jewish but I don't follow Judaism, I follow the Old Testament.

Yes Chilean women are not as bad as American women, but they are much worse than Mexican women.

You are making an unforgivable mistake in supporting the idea of child support. This puts the entire burden of responsibility of the men, as well as supporting sluts and their bastard offspring. Ideally sluts and their children should starve to death and the men who got them pregnant should be castrated, but I am just dreaming here.

Please tell me what you think caused your mentality/ethics/values to be different from other Mexicans.


Some Chilean women are jackasses due to the import of U.S. culture after that very very corrupt political year of 1973. From what I understand, the U.S. put a puppet government in there in lieu of the "tyrant"-Chavez-esque/Castro-esque "regime" that was going to be put forth into Chilean government. The U.S. of Gay figured it was a perfect time to start implementing their "neo-manifest destiny" policy in South America with Chile in 1973 like that. That's what I'm thinking if right or wrong.
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