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“El Saborâ€￾ versus “Backwardesiaâ€￾

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Latin America, Mexico, or Central America.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Bacwardesia or El Sabor?

Backwardesia
1
25%
El Sabor
3
75%
 
Total votes : 4

“El Saborâ€￾ versus “Backwardesiaâ€￾

Postby Jester » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:41 pm

The Big Picture: “El Saborâ€￾ versus “Backwardesiaâ€￾

This is a summary of positives and negatives about two regions of the world, from my personal POV. I realize not all countries in the regions share all the negatives – I am lumping together concerns that I have about different places.

Assumptions:
You are a single man leaving the U.S.,
you like women,
you do not want to marry legally,
you are not rich,
and you are not retired.



“Backwardesiaâ€￾

+Women are friendly.
+Women are often slender.
+Massages are great.
+No child support laws.
-You can’t live with a woman unless you bow down to Mecca and have your foreskin chopped off.

+Your woman keeps her mouth shut sometimes.
-You’re never sure what she’s thinking.

+Food is healthy.
+Food is great.
+You are free to f**k, eat and drink all you want.

-All you are allowed to do is f**k, eat and drink.
-All the local people do is f**k, drink and eat.

-Local people are nationalistic and view you with suspicion. You will never fit in.
-Language is impossible to learn.

-Expats can’t buy land.
-Expats can’t buy houses, because houses include land.
-Without a house, expats cannot create a family or even own dogs.
-Local people eat dogs, anyway.

-Expats cannot stay year-round without residency, so visa runs are needed.
-Expats can’t get residency, unless they have jobs.
-Expats cannot get jobs, unless they are high-level corporate minions.
-If you were a high-level corporate minion, you wouldn’t be leaving the U.S.

-Time-zone sucks for doing business with the U.S.

-Expats cannot get local bank accounts without residency.
-Without a local bank account, your online income can’t be wired in.
-Internet speed is good, but doesn’t matter, since you can’t wire money in anyway.
-ATM’s only dispense $200 a day, making it hard to pay rent with no local bank account.

-Life sucked out of you by hanging out with dissolute gringo whoremongers at the local bar.


“El Saborâ€￾
+Food is healthy.
-Food is bland.

+Women are friendly.
+You are free to f**k, eat and drink all you want.
-Most women are not slender.
-Massages are hard to find.

+You communicate easily with your woman.
-Your woman communicates easily with you… and way too much.

+Expats can buy land and houses with almost no restriction.
+If you have a house, you can own a dog.
-If you have a house, you need a dog.

+Time-zone allows business phone calls to U.S.
-Lousy, expensive phone service makes business phone calls to U.S. difficult.

+You can run a local business, sort of.
+Expats can get a local bank account as soon as you sign a lease.
+With a local bank account, you can run an online business, with some hurdles.
-Lousy internet service makes online business difficult and frustrating.

+Local people view you with suspicion but mixed with admiration.

+People enjoy life.
-Everyone is broke.

+You can own guns.
-You need guns.

-Life sucked out of you by hanging out with old retired gringo couples at the local bar.
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Postby E_Irizarry » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:56 pm

Backwardnesia suena mejor, compañero. Lo apruebo! :O)
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Postby tom » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:24 am

Can you explain a bit more?
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Continental Divide

Postby Jester » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:36 am

tom wrote:Can you explain a bit more?




Backwardesia -


A man can have women easily, but will never fit in, blend in, or be a citizen with full rights. Male friendship will exist only with expats.

There are some interesting expats. However they are all whoremongers.

Great place to be a permanent visitor, wear a kimono, get a massage. Your woman will never ask you where you were last night.

No White (aka Western) culture. Everyone talks around a subject, noone is direct. People are uneducated.

Food has flavor.

You have to date locals, if you import an FSU woman she would be out of place and unhappy. Your mom will not visit you there. Only visitors will be horny male friends who are jealous.

Your mixed-race children will not fit in either. But they will have opportunities to get ahead in life and will live well.

Women don't talk back, but they complain about money.

People are intelligent but shallow. Noone has deep thoughts. Noone thinks about life.

People are sometimes angry.

Karioke is popular. There are no poets and no rock bands.

Everyone is short. Everyone has a Napoleon complex.

You can rent a house or buy a condo.

You can get away with almost anything, except talking about the ruling party.

Lots of fish.



El Sabor -

The upper class is White. On television, the telenovela stars are White. Middle class is part-White and has Spanish-colonial culture. So if you learn the culture and the language, then you will be totally accepted (if you are White), as will your children.

There are expats, but they are all pussywhipped.

Immigrants are welcome, so you can import an FSU bride if the local ladies don't suit you. A nation of immigrants and a melting pot, like U.S. in 1920's. Your relatives will visit, including your mom. And she will then go home and brag to her friends.

People are lazy but educated. People sometimes feel a bit sorry for themselves, but deal with life as it is. There are lots of fiestas.

Women talk back sometimes, but they don't complain about money.

There are poets and rock bands, as well as karioke.

Most people are short, except for a few people who star on telenovelas. Short people don't mind being short.

You can get away with almost anything, except criticizing the narcos.

Lots of beef and pork. Food is okay.

********************************

So............. which do you pick, and why?

Do you think my description of the two continents are fair or not?

What would you change in the descriptions?
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Re: Continental Divide

Postby OutWest » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:16 am

Jester wrote:
tom wrote:Can you explain a bit more?




Backwardesia -


A man can have women easily, but will never fit in, blend in, or be a citizen with full rights. Male friendship will exist only with expats.

There are some interesting expats. However they are all whoremongers.

Great place to be a permanent visitor, wear a kimono, get a massage. Your woman will never ask you where you were last night.

No White (aka Western) culture. Everyone talks around a subject, noone is direct. People are uneducated.

Food has flavor.

You have to date locals, if you import an FSU woman she would be out of place and unhappy. Your mom will not visit you there. Only visitors will be horny male friends who are jealous.

Your mixed-race children will not fit in either. But they will have opportunities to get ahead in life and will live well.

Women don't talk back, but they complain about money.

People are intelligent but shallow. Noone has deep thoughts. Noone thinks about life.

People are sometimes angry.

Karioke is popular. There are no poets and no rock bands.

Everyone is short. Everyone has a Napoleon complex.

You can rent a house or buy a condo.

You can get away with almost anything, except talking about the ruling party.

Lots of fish.



El Sabor -

The upper class is White. On television, the telenovela stars are White. Middle class is part-White and has Spanish-colonial culture. So if you learn the culture and the language, then you will be totally accepted (if you are White), as will your children.

There are expats, but they are all pussywhipped.

Immigrants are welcome, so you can import an FSU bride if the local ladies don't suit you. A nation of immigrants and a melting pot, like U.S. in 1920's. Your relatives will visit, including your mom. And she will then go home and brag to her friends.

People are lazy but educated. People sometimes feel a bit sorry for themselves, but deal with life as it is. There are lots of fiestas.

Women talk back sometimes, but they don't complain about money.

There are poets and rock bands, as well as karioke.

Most people are short, except for a few people who star on telenovelas. Short people don't mind being short.

You can get away with almost anything, except criticizing the narcos.

Lots of beef and pork. Food is okay.

********************************

So............. which do you pick, and why?

Do you think my description of the two continents are fair or not?

What would you change in the descriptions?



Your Asia description sounds like humor or parody, like stringing together all the stereotypes, most of which are not accurate.
Not at all like someone who has spent much time in Asia. Of course, now that I live in Mindanao, I see all kinds of things, plus and minus. I have traveled extensively throughout Asia- especially SE Asia. I also have spent a lot of time in SA, as I was often there
for my previous occupation, and spent a number of years in that zone.

For sure, they are quite different places, but even within SA and Asia, the differences are quite significant.

"Old retired Gringo couples? LOL Sounds like one of those Mexican retirement havens, which have very little to do with really living in SA...mostly just "charming" living, more or less yankee style, but with cheaper housekeepers.

PS..I don't have any rent to pay...LOL

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Re: Continental Divide

Postby Jester » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:50 am

OutWest wrote:Your Asia description sounds like humor or parody, like stringing together all the stereotypes, most of which are not accurate.
Not at all like someone who has spent much time in Asia.


Alas you have found me out, sir. Curses!

OutWest wrote:..........I also have spent a lot of time in SA, as I was often there
for my previous occupation, and spent a number of years in that zone.......


Yeah, OK, so you chucked S.A. for the Phils - which has some traits of Backwardesia, maybe fewer of El Sabor...(?)

What was important to you in doing so? Yes, I know, the lady of course - but something drew you there in the first place, before you met her. You went there rather than to S.A. What was the pull?

And what do you miss from SA?

What I was trying to do here was take step back and think of the overall livability and long-term happiness I would get from a place, and see the big picture. Obviously many of us could find attractive women on several continents. Is there a kind of man who does better in Asia? A kind who does better in L.A. ?


OutWest wrote:"Old retired Gringo couples? LOL Sounds like one of those Mexican retirement havens, which have very little to do with really living in SA...mostly just "charming" living, more or less yankee style, but with cheaper housekeepers.
Outwest


OK... yeah to be honest, joking aside, despite its convenience and ease, I have pretty well given up on Mexico and CR for that reason (and some others), will go to Uruguay or thereabouts if I do go to S.A.


OutWest wrote:PS..I don't have any rent to pay...LOL
Outwest


Hmmm - so then you must be good at what you do? :wink:
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Re: Continental Divide

Postby OutWest » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:25 pm

Jester wrote:
OutWest wrote:Your Asia description sounds like humor or parody, like stringing together all the stereotypes, most of which are not accurate.
Not at all like someone who has spent much time in Asia.


Alas you have found me out, sir. Curses!

OutWest wrote:..........I also have spent a lot of time in SA, as I was often there
for my previous occupation, and spent a number of years in that zone.......


Yeah, OK, so you chucked S.A. for the Phils - which has some traits of Backwardesia, maybe fewer of El Sabor...(?)

What was important to you in doing so? Yes, I know, the lady of course - but something drew you there in the first place, before you met her. You went there rather than to S.A. What was the pull?

And what do you miss from SA?

What I was trying to do here was take step back and think of the overall livability and long-term happiness I would get from a place, and see the big picture. Obviously many of us could find attractive women on several continents. Is there a kind of man who does better in Asia? A kind who does better in L.A. ?


OutWest wrote:"Old retired Gringo couples? LOL Sounds like one of those Mexican retirement havens, which have very little to do with really living in SA...mostly just "charming" living, more or less yankee style, but with cheaper housekeepers.
Outwest


OK... yeah to be honest, joking aside, despite its convenience and ease, I have pretty well given up on Mexico and CR for that reason (and some others), will go to Uruguay or thereabouts if I do go to S.A.


OutWest wrote:PS..I don't have any rent to pay...LOL
Outwest


Hmmm - so then you must be good at what you do? :wink:


SA and SE Asia are very hard to compare- one size does not fit all. I do miss things about SA- the landscapes and it is generally not overpopulated the way the Philippines is. Filipinos are generally more hospitality oriented- it is not an accident that many of the world's cruise ships are staffed with Filipinos.

Generally I would say that filipinas tend to be more open to a relationship with an older man- so if you are past 40, that is a consideration.

What drew me to SE Asia/ the Philippines? hmmm, I have a pretty long history here, so we can be creatures of habit...and it has its
comforts. It is not like I carefully weighed SA vs Philippines, it was more likely happenstance.
Of course, now that I am considering returning to Chile, things may change. If one is looking for a second , or replacement nationality,
Chile is one of the best.

I would say the priority placed on education is higher in Asia by a long shot than most of LA/SA. All you have to do is notice within the US around universities, and note just who is flocking to them and sacrificing everything to make sure their kids get in, including their daughters.
There is no comparison in the way SE Asian families prioritize education for their daughters vs how it is in Mexico, where they are obviously a lower educational priority for most. Now Chile is far different than Mexico for sure, much more European dominated.

No rent? Yes, because I paid cash for the land on a very good deal, and paid cash for the actual construction of the house, which I supervised and worked on myself as well. You can own land in the Philippines rather indirectly- through a relative or through a Philippines corporation that you can actually control. If you have the land through a relative, if you want you can legally lease it back for 49 years to cover your ass a bit. But yes, property ownership is far easier in SA. (Big plus for some!)


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Re: Continental Divide

Postby Jester » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:12 pm

Thanks for your reply. May God bless you for helping me maintain sanity a little while longer.

OutWest wrote: ....I do miss things about SA- the landscapes and it is generally not overpopulated the way the Philippines is.

(Jester thinks, "SA is the better place to live....")

OutWest wrote:Filipinos are generally more hospitality oriented- it is not an accident that many of the world's cruise ships are staffed with Filipinos.

(Jester thinks... "Filipinas better to live WITH.....")

OutWest wrote:Generally I would say that filipinas tend to be more open to a relationship with an older man- so if you are past 40, that is a consideration.

(Jester thinks... "Case closed.")

Actually though here's the deal.

I'm over 50 but tall, all my hair, no gray, educated, kinda animated, outgoing, socially dominant, good dancer, easygoing, friendly, witty and funny. I'm pretty sure I can get a very attractive under-20 Colombiana or Peruviana. Or under-20 China, SEA, FSU, Middle East or East Africa. (In some cultures may have to promise marriage to get past the patriarch, in other cultures not so much.)

What concerns me more is societal acceptance.

I'm not interested at all in short-term stuff. I'm looking for lifetime potential, or nothing. And I like to be out there and in public. (Even if I have to describe a gf as my "personal assistant".)

I.e. in the relatively safe and civilized countries of the Southern Cone (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, southern Brazil) can a man walk around with his young novia the same way he can in the Phil's or elsewhere in Asia?

OutWest wrote:What drew me to SE Asia/ the Philippines? hmmm, I have a pretty long history here, so we can be creatures of habit...and it has its comforts....

IMO the habit-and-comfort is the danger. I also get used to things. Change is a bitch. I do want to get it right this time.

OutWest wrote:Of course, now that I am considering returning to Chile, things may change.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thought you were all infatuated down there in the Phils??? Is Miss Pinay coming with?


OutWest wrote: I would say the priority placed on education is higher in Asia by a long shot than most of LA/SA. All you have to do is notice within the US around universities, and note just who is flocking to them and sacrificing everything to make sure their kids get in, including their daughters.
There is no comparison in the way SE Asian families prioritize education for their daughters vs how it is in Mexico, where they are obviously a lower educational priority for most......

Education is respected in Phil's more than LA?!!
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Re: Continental Divide

Postby OutWest » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:41 pm

Jester wrote:Thanks for your reply. May God bless you for helping me maintain sanity a little while longer.

OutWest wrote: ....I do miss things about SA- the landscapes and it is generally not overpopulated the way the Philippines is.

(Jester thinks, "SA is the better place to live....")

OutWest wrote:Filipinos are generally more hospitality oriented- it is not an accident that many of the world's cruise ships are staffed with Filipinos.

(Jester thinks... "Filipinas better to live WITH.....")

OutWest wrote:Generally I would say that filipinas tend to be more open to a relationship with an older man- so if you are past 40, that is a consideration.

(Jester thinks... "Case closed.")

Actually though here's the deal.

I'm over 50 but tall, all my hair, no gray, educated, kinda animated, outgoing, socially dominant, good dancer, easygoing, friendly, witty and funny. I'm pretty sure I can get a very attractive under-20 Colombiana or Peruviana. Or under-20 China, SEA, FSU, Middle East or East Africa. (In some cultures may have to promise marriage to get past the patriarch, in other cultures not so much.)

What concerns me more is societal acceptance.

I'm not interested at all in short-term stuff. I'm looking for lifetime potential, or nothing. And I like to be out there and in public. (Even if I have to describe a gf as my "personal assistant".)

I.e. in the relatively safe and civilized countries of the Southern Cone (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, southern Brazil) can a man walk around with his young novia the same way he can in the Phil's or elsewhere in Asia?

OutWest wrote:What drew me to SE Asia/ the Philippines? hmmm, I have a pretty long history here, so we can be creatures of habit...and it has its comforts....

IMO the habit-and-comfort is the danger. I also get used to things. Change is a bitch. I do want to get it right this time.

OutWest wrote:Of course, now that I am considering returning to Chile, things may change.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thought you were all infatuated down there in the Phils??? Is Miss Pinay coming with?


OutWest wrote: I would say the priority placed on education is higher in Asia by a long shot than most of LA/SA. All you have to do is notice within the US around universities, and note just who is flocking to them and sacrificing everything to make sure their kids get in, including their daughters.
There is no comparison in the way SE Asian families prioritize education for their daughters vs how it is in Mexico, where they are obviously a lower educational priority for most......

Education is respected in Phil's more than LA?!!



Jester-

...I am up trying to solve some remote desktop issues...hmmmm curses Red Baron! LOL
I think you would do ok either place, but if I were to put odds on it, I would say you are at about a 60/40 split favoring SE Asia.
Pretty much live and let live in both parts of the world, but especially so in my part of Asia. For education, one can hardly compare the southern cone with Mexico, if I were to compare just Mexico, I would say that education for women in general (With class exceptions) is a much higher priority with young filipinas than with Mexicanas. Much of it is of poor quality, but it is huge at any rate and families will scrape and save all kinds of ways to get the daughter through school.

Im not infatuated with anywhere, just what works...Miss Pinay? haha...it's MRS Pinay...and both she and her family are supportive of SA plans.I am looking at establishing legal residency in Chile so that I could apply for a passport in time. A Chilean passport is the best in all of LA.

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Re: Continental Divide

Postby Jester » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:36 pm

OutWest wrote:

Jester-

...I am up trying to solve some remote desktop issues...hmmmm curses Red Baron!

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your taking the time.

OutWest wrote:LOL
I think you would do ok either place, but if I were to put odds on it, I would say you are at about a 60/40 split favoring SE Asia.
Pretty much live and let live in both parts of the world, but especially so in my part of Asia.

Understood. Thanks.


OutWest wrote:For education, one can hardly compare the southern cone with Mexico, if I were to compare just Mexico, I would say that education for women in general (With class exceptions) is a much higher priority with young filipinas than with Mexicanas. Much of it is of poor quality, but it is huge at any rate and families will scrape and save all kinds of ways to get the daughter through school.

Outstanding. The desire for education is more important to me than the actual education itself. Good to know.


OutWest wrote:Im not infatuated with anywhere, just what works...

This is the right attitude. Same feeling I have... about what career I pursue, who I romance, where I live, what country I am loyal to, what race my children are. A drowning man looks for daylight.


OutWest wrote:Miss Pinay? haha...it's MRS Pinay...and both she and her family are supportive of SA plans.

Glad to hear!


OutWest wrote:I am looking at establishing legal residency in Chile so that I could apply for a passport in time. A Chilean passport is the best in all of LA.

Yes, I've heard this combo elsewhere. Pinay brought to SA, with a SA passport. May you found a dynasty.
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UPDATE ON: “El Saborâ€￾ versus “Backwardesiaâ€￾

Postby Jester » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:18 am

Jester wrote:The Big Picture: “El Saborâ€￾ versus “Backwardesiaâ€￾

This is a summary of positives and negatives about two regions of the world, from my personal POV. I realize not all countries in the regions share all the negatives – I am lumping together concerns that I have about different places.

Assumptions:
You are a single man leaving the U.S.,
you like women,
you do not want to marry legally,
you are not rich,
and you are not retired.



“Backwardesiaâ€￾

+Women are friendly.
+Women are often slender.
+Massages are great.
+No child support laws.
-You can’t live with a woman unless you bow down to Mecca and have your foreskin chopped off.

+Your woman keeps her mouth shut sometimes.
-You’re never sure what she’s thinking.

+Food is healthy.
+Food is great.
+You are free to f**k, eat and drink all you want.

-All you are allowed to do is f**k, eat and drink.
-All the local people do is f**k, drink and eat.

-Local people are nationalistic and view you with suspicion. You will never fit in.
-Language is impossible to learn.

-Expats can’t buy land.
-Expats can’t buy houses, because houses include land.
-Without a house, expats cannot create a family or even own dogs.
-Local people eat dogs, anyway.

-Expats cannot stay year-round without residency, so visa runs are needed.
-Expats can’t get residency, unless they have jobs.
-Expats cannot get jobs, unless they are high-level corporate minions.
-If you were a high-level corporate minion, you wouldn’t be leaving the U.S.

-Time-zone sucks for doing business with the U.S.

-Expats cannot get local bank accounts without residency.
-Without a local bank account, your online income can’t be wired in.
-Internet speed is good, but doesn’t matter, since you can’t wire money in anyway.
-ATM’s only dispense $200 a day, making it hard to pay rent with no local bank account.

-Life sucked out of you by hanging out with dissolute gringo whoremongers at the local bar.


“El Saborâ€￾
+Food is healthy.
-Food is bland.

+Women are friendly.
+You are free to f**k, eat and drink all you want.
-Most women are not slender.
-Massages are hard to find.

+You communicate easily with your woman.
-Your woman communicates easily with you… and way too much.

+Expats can buy land and houses with almost no restriction.
+If you have a house, you can own a dog.
-If you have a house, you need a dog.

+Time-zone allows business phone calls to U.S.
-Lousy, expensive phone service makes business phone calls to U.S. difficult.

+You can run a local business, sort of.
+Expats can get a local bank account as soon as you sign a lease.
+With a local bank account, you can run an online business, with some hurdles.
-Lousy internet service makes online business difficult and frustrating.

+Local people view you with suspicion but mixed with admiration.

+People enjoy life.
-Everyone is broke.

+You can own guns.
-You need guns.

-Life sucked out of you by hanging out with old retired gringo couples at the local bar.





OK so I moved to El Sabor, about 6 weeks ago.

Mexico.

Been too busy to hang out with old gringo couples at the bar, but did see them, they are out there.

Everything else I predicted is generally true, both the pluses and the minuses.

(But can't get a bank account even with a lease and utility bill, they are just not as lax as some places.)
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Postby gsjackson » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:04 pm

Congrats on getting the move accomplished. Will be interested in reading your reports. Mexico is certainly on my radar. Climate is fairly important to me, and you can find some of the best in the world in places like Baja and the mountains of Mexico.

As for having to get your money from an American bank out of the ATM network, you might take a look at my bank, Capital One. I don't think they've been charging me anything for these withdrawals when I go overseas. Very different with the other account I've been using -- Bank of America (I know, pariahs, or should be). Substantial charges with them.
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Postby rudder » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:18 am

Congrats! Glad to hear you finally made the move to Mexico.. Wherabouts are you?
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Postby manly5000 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:08 pm

Updates, man! Updates! How do you like it so far? How are the women responding to you?

Are the people in general treating you well?

We need moar stories from our Latin American brethren!!! :D

Oh yeah, and congrats on getting there sir. 8)
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