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Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Latin America, Mexico, or Central America.
12 posts • Page 1 of 1
This forum has a lot of popularity with Asian women, and Eastern European women. We also see a lot of white/American men getting with Asian women in the USA. We also see a lot of white males getting with Hispanic females in the USA, usually Americanized Mexicans and often the whiter looking ones, although I've seen my share of white men with mestizo looking Latin women.
Winston's old post about AM-WF not being a good match got me thinking about this. I am a white American man, slim/average size, professional worker, and introverted/creative personality with a moderate temperament. Is the White American man - Latina woman a workable match?
Pros that I can see:
Most Latin women have at least some European genes in their family tree. That can only be a plus, and your children/offspring will be less "exotic" than a white-black or white-asian pairing and will have an easier time establishing their identities.
Latinas are industrious, hard-working, and capitalist in a very similar fashion to whites/Europeans.
Latinas are family-centric and approach the lifestyle and concept of family and gender roles in a way that at least classical/conservative whites once did.
Latinas seem to be physically attracted to white men. When I go out, I get checked out by a lot of Hispanic women. Some have accepted my offers for a date.
Latinas speak a western European language that is relatively easy to pick up between English-Spanish/Portuguese tongues.
Latinas value art/culture, they tend to enjoy music, dancing and tasty food. Also, just another interesting note: Latin men compete in similar team sports (Soccer and Baseball) that are most popular with white Americans and Europeans and tend to get into similar hobbies to white men (car repair, hunting/fishing, side businesses, etc).
Cons that I've noticed:
Latinas are definitely passionate and can be testy, impulsive, confrontational, flakey, and emotionally erratic. Does it take a certain kind of man to like/handle a woman like this? For example, I prefer direct communication and masculine leadership, but with my logical and mellow personality, I'm annoyed and sometimes freaked out by erratic-ness and mental instability.
Latinas are often not the most academic people. I can probably count on my hands the number of Latina women who struck me as genuinely academic, intellectually curious individuals.
Latinas have a super-tight connection to family and a warm culture and may not be so adaptable to the transient/independent, fast-paced, results-oriented American lifestyle that pretty much all whites at least somewhat follow nowdays.
Latinas (at least the more mestizo/indigenous looking ones) sadly often seem to suffer a certain low self-esteem. I heard one white man who married/divorced a Latina woman tell me bluntly that many Latin women have a race/class-induced inferiority complex that has a profound impact on a relationship with a white/western man. Basically, the Latina woman has low self-esteem and sees the white/western man as better than her, so she has a certain backhanded racism, and may eventually lose respect for her white man. Like "if I'm such crap, and he likes me, then what does that make him?" type of message that causes her to lose respect.
What are your thoughts? Are white/American/European stock men a decent match for Latinas? Or is there often too many differences/frictions in style, personality, temperament, culture, etc? What have been your experiences??
I read your post. I think I'm in a unique position to answer your question. I've tallied more failures in Latin America than everyone on this forum combined. I also work in a hardcore mainland Chinese company and get to see Chinese mentality from something other than a tourist perspective.
There was a time at the beginning of this year where I asked myself this same question. Based on what I've done this year you can see that I made a clear decision to try dating Latin women over Asian women. At this point I'm in a failed state of limbo so there's no conclusive winner but I'll explain my journey.
I want young women. Specifically 18-22. More importantly I want young women that are wife-ready. If I'm going to do Asia it's going to be for stereotypical porcelain skin girls. This means China/Korea/Japan. Forget everywhere else. You are not going for find an 18-22 year old Chinese girl that's not working or not in school. So a wife-ready 18-22 year old Chinese girl doesn't exist there. The second thing is all Asians are fundamentally eastern. Is this a problem? I think it presents a unique challenge. The word "Americanized' is thrown around here a lot. I make a distinction between being "Americanized" and being "Westernized". The issue with women in China isn't that they want to be Americanized, it's that they want to be "Westernized". Chinese women have an inferiority complex with being eastern and want to assimilate to being western. Being western means being more independent, less hierarchical and more egotistical. None of these things are inherently problems except when they're unchecked. The problem is Chinese women don't grow up in a culture like this and therefore go overboard to fit it. For these reasons I gave up on China and focused on Latin America.
Latin America is western. There is more overlap culturally between a western mestizo and a white american male than any Asian will ever have. Latin America is basically a large indian continent like America that was conquered and raped by Catholics instead of Protestants. The difference is in the proportion of natives kept alive. In America we killed them all and in Latin America most lived. At the end of the day we're a white + native population. All modern Latin American countries derive from European languages, foods and architecture. The most Europeanized people in Latin America on the surface can pass as clones of white Americans. So if I was to vote, I would say hands down Latin America beats Asia on cultural similarity. Again I'm distinguishing between "western" and "american". Western isn't inherently bad. Western has misappropriated as a negative term around here. Eating steak is western. Our alphabet is western. What remains of good architecture in the west was and is western, European derived.
The question that I asked myself is how will I like a woman after the honeymoon period is over. Do I want to eat tofu every day? Do I really have any interest in studying eastern philosophy? Would I rather live in the ruins of a Chinese village or a Spanish colony? Do I like hearing European languages or eastern languages? What do I feel when I walk into China town verses a Mexican store. This is a fundamental question of whether you prefer western or eastern. I think it's a bad idea to get carried away with eastern exotics. I eat Chinese food every day and now it's boring to me.
So this brings me to my failures. The same thing that I like about Latin America is the same thing that makes my dating life absolute hell there. The best looking guys in Latin America look more white than you, taller than you, more muscular than you and more western than you. So playing the western card is laughed at in Latin America. You can play the American card but you can't double up and be extra extra exotic just because you're western. If you want to date the hottest women in Latin America you might as well just compete with the most attractive white guys in the United States. If you can't compete here you will fail there.
So here's how I'd summarize the options. If your a pure bred white guy you can cash in your chips and take the house in Asia. Even the best model looking Asian dude is not going to be white. He can be better looking than you but he cannot be white. You can exploit this advantage infinitely. The question is do you want to base your culture and view of life around tofu? For me this is hard to stomach. If you bring an Asian women here she will go overboard on western characteristics while also retaining day to day eastern outlook on some things. In practical terms things like home school, not having a career or taking interest in a religion will be a hard and confusing sell. Any white guy will punch above his looks though. If you want a virgin many Chinese girls are virgins, not because they give a shit, but because they're too busy studying to literally f**k around.
In Latin America you don't need to sell religion, staying at home or alternative schooling. Latin women are lazy, emotional and have some type of relationship with god. This means you can manipulate Latin women to do whatever you want. They don't have any clear rules they'll object to. The problem is getting them off their ass to do anything. If you're willing to beat the shit out of them verbally and otherwise then you can have your cake and eat it too. You will also find most Latinas don't have their shit together and have a lower IQ. The benefit of this is you can find a young Latin women who will play stay at home wife from day one. You're less likely to find a virgin because Latin women after and during high school have all the unscheduled and unmanaged time in the world to do something stupid like getting knocked up. If you want a programmable robot that can operate without guidance, get an Asian. The issue is that some western concepts will never be programmable into an eastern robot. But what an Asian does well, they will do well.
I'm not successful in either Latin America or Asia so take what you want from this.
Eastern europe strikes me as a place that is neither western nor asian. The jury is out on that.
Drealm, I like your synopsis. Good comparison of Asia to Latin America and how Latins are indeed more tangential to Europeans and North Americans.
That is also the reason I shifted my focus towards white or latin women. After I broke up with my Chinese American girlfriend a few years ago, my yellow fever gradually winded down after I realized that Asian culture is pretty fundamentally different from myself. Admirable, but fundamentally different. I also think about my future children, I'd want them to be able to establish identities and look similar to myself, my wife, and some other people. Hence, I'd prefer a Caucasian or Mestizo woman. I agree with Roosh's recent article about 7 things he must have in a wife/breeding partner. Asian, Black, Indian, and other women are also off the map for me. With a Latin/Mestizo woman, our offspring would be Euro-Mestizos, and there's a lot of Mexicans/Mestizo-looking people in the USA already, so I'm confident they would not be conflicted about their identity and not be alienated/discriminated by others. So, in the past year, I've only pursued white or hispanic women. I like how hispanics have the religious values, desire to be mothers of children, housekeepers, etc. I could much more easily see myself living in a house with a Mexican woman than with a Chinese woman. Although I respect Asian culture and find much of it fascinating; I seem to have a closer affinity for Latin food, music, lifestyle; I think visiting or living in Latin America would be more exciting, and also more comforting for me.
You're right though, that going to Asia can be like shooting rats in a barrel for a white/western man. It's funny, in the United States, I get more eye contact from Latina women than Asians, but I've been more successful at securing dates with Asians. I've also gotten a lot of flakes/rejections from American Latina women, some have shown interest then disappeared, I think they tend to be less reliable and it's hard to find a quality one (at least in the USA) who is not flakey, ghetto, low IQ, etc.
I think that you're onto something about being able to train/manipulate a Latin woman more easily, if you can tolerate their emotions and pace of life, and just maintain your solid masculine frame over them. I believe in traditional gender roles and have worked hard on developing my masculinity, eradicating blue pill and passive behaviors and asserting/tapping into my natural instincts. I'm a reserved, but direct communicator, so I have no problem telling a woman what to do. Being a creative personality, I have my emotions, but I definitely am less animated about them and I prefer consistency/intellect/reliability. That's where I think I've run into problems with many Hispanic women. In theory, I think they're a match for me, but the reality of their flaws/tendencies causes for friction. Of course, in theory I am best matched for white women, but in reality most American whites nowadays are also seriously flawed with tendencies, tastes, and mindsets that annoy me or flat-out fly in the face of my ideology.
I agree with some of what you wrote here but some of it is just dead wrong. You're unlikely to find a latin woman who's going to be willing to marry and be your stay at home wife from day 1.. If you find a woman who's willing to do that, avoid her at all costs. That means she has family or friends in the U.S. ready to take her in after she divorces your ass and takes you to the cleaners. But that's only about 2% of latinas who want to or are willing to date foreign men. Most of them just think of us gringos as more reliable and honest. They think we're less likely to abuse them than Latino men. But that doesn't mean she'll be willing to follow you to the moon the moment you step off the plane in Medellin. It simply doesn't work that way.
Latinas come in all different shapes, sizes, and personalities. Some of them are the wannabe pop diva types, while others are the sweet girl-next-door types. You can usually escalate sexual contact with Latinas faster than American or Asian women (with the exception of SE Asian women I would assume).. You can start calling them "baby" practically as soon as you start flirting wit them. Latin American culture is not sexually oppressive. The presence of Catholicism means absolutely nothing, even in the rural parts. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
The problem with Latinas is they come from a culture where dishonesty is so encouraged its expected. People lie about the most trivial things here whenever its convenient to them. You're almost seen as a fool if you're too honest. Everyone here is trying to swindle the next guy for a penny. People are genetically ingrained to lie on impulse. Latin culture is also not one of modesty, so many of these Latinas think they are much more important than they really are. Many of them dream about becoming high rolling-white collar workers in New York City or Miami. For the vast majority of them, this dream will never come to fruition. Once they've come to terms with reality, only then may they be interested in settling down with an American man. This usually happens in the late 20s.
The only experience I have with Asian women is with a 1st generation Vietnamese girl I dated. She was very loyal and considerate, but often times too demanding. If I went a half a day without texting her, she'd get upset and accuse me of only wanting sex.
I had a few female Ukrainian friends in college. They were pretty cool women overall. You could pretty much talk to them about ANYTHING without them being offended. They were much stronger women than their typical American counterparts. They were also more intellectually curious. I think Eastern European women are the most intellectually curious women in the world.
Would you say that Latinas are more likely to be dishonest? Do some of them try to play American men to get into the USA? I've heard that some will lie on impulse, but are some capable of more elaborate/subtle tactics to play a man to higher status in America? The thing is, I'm also quite concerned about the factor of being played by these women as a ticket to higher wealth. This is why I try to downplay myself somewhat when in Mexico and portray myself as a modest/middle-class man such as displaying fiscal frugalness. How do you detect a lack of genuineness or ulterior motives?
I've heard all about the white Latinas being harder to get with than the mestizos. I sense it's also simply an economic thing, since most of the light-skinned Latinas are middle/upper class, have solid social circles, Catholicism, and are not necessarily wowed by a Gringo. I'm a good-looking white man with a middle class engineering job, not rich by any means by American standards. I wear some fashions similar to European and Latin men (slim clothes, zara, sfera, tight jeans, boots, etc). I can dance a little salsa/bachata and my Spanish is conversational and improving. Would I have a better shot at various white or mestizo latin women of middle class status (by Mexican/Latin standards)?
As for Asian women, I've had basically the same journey as drealm. I don't want to learn Asian manners/honor system, I'm not crazy about rice and tofu, and I'm too lazy to learn Chinese at this point in my life. Plus, something bothers me about knowing that probably at least 50% of the reason an Asian woman shows interest, at least initially, is solely based on you being a white/western man. My ex-girlfriend used to drop subtle hints all the time about her white fever, obsession with American/European culture (she'd dated a Frenchman before me), she used to grab my pointed nose and even though I have dark features for a white man (dark hair, brown eyes), she'd frequently say things like "I like your blue eyes" or "wow, you're eyes look almost green today!" Yep, that sort of creeped me out a little.
There are plenty of good latina women. I met 3 women via latinamericancupid.com. In the DR, one girl just wanted $$ but we had lots of sex and she got food and drink from me but no $$$. 2nd DR girl I have visited 3 times, even met her Mother. She is a pretty dam good girl. Does not hang in the bars or clubs, goes to Chruch, was smart enough to take English and learn to speak it well, and at 28 NO KIDS. She does not hit me up for $$$ all the time also. I am 50 BTW and if you saw us walking down the street you would not see the age difference. I dropped a K-1 Visa app in the mail this week so we see if she gets granted a visa to stay with me in the USA.
Just met a girl from Columbia in NC. She, on her 2nd try, got a visa to come to the USA solo. She stayed with a GF from Columbia, her kids and gringo husband.
So I drove down for a weekend got a hotel room, we had a really good time. Lot of sex. She is now staying with another GF in Washington, who married an American
gringo. I will probably get her a plane ticket to visit me before she has to go back to Columbia.
You hit right on the nail about it mostly. However, I prefer my Japanese wife over a Latin women, but I have my reasons for.
In my case, I am somewhat successful both in Asia and in Latin America. Not complaining. With the few Eastern Euo girls I met, I did pretty good.
Lying is part of Latino culture, and yes, most do not see it as bad. I am the exception as I find lies of all types to be bad as I tend to be honest, perhaps the most honest Latino a gringo can meet. And that is the main reason why I do not tend to like Latinas because they lie too much and are inconsistent on time schedules and/or unreliable. I have a better fitting with an Asian women in that regard as they take things more seriously and are consistent and reliable.
You wear Zara? That is cool, mate I also do, in fact, it is my favourite store to shop. You are the first American I met that buys clothes from there. I am above average in looks and hold two white collar jobs (bilingual sales planner and interpreter) on weekdays and real estate manager on weekends.
I also got the same from Asian women before meeting my wife. They like a lot my big eyes (probably are bigger than yours and saw it as exotic, though in Guadalajara, big eyes are common as the average tapatio has big eyes), and my somewhat hooked nose seen in profile view. I did not have problems with Asian women regarding my olive skin. In my experience, the darkest shada Asian women will tolerate is an olive/Mediterranean skin colour. Darker than that, most will not be attracted to it.
Yes, in my culture, dishonesty is encouraged and even expected. I am not typical Latino in that regard as I tend to be honest and I hate lies of all types (unless there is a reasonable excuse to do it and it has to be really reasonable). And yes, most Latinos see one who is too honest as a fool as other Latinos have consider me a "fool" or I am "not typical Latino". But for me, they are the idiots because they think lying will get them ahead in life and do not see lying will ruin their reputation in the long term. I think long-term and meticulously, not short-term or the now like most Latinos tend to think. Only insecure people lie in my point of view.
As for Latinas liking foreigners, the reality is that the vast majority of Latinas marry Latino men. That is fact. Only very few marry foreigners. It makes me laugh the mentality of many gringos that they think once they step off the airplane in any Latin American city, women will throw themselves at them. It does not happen. I have seen gringo travelers in my native Guadalajara and Mexico City, and almost no women throw themselves at them. Most seem indifferent to a gringo or a foreigner for that matter. And this is regardless of social class or race.
That is why for me even though I am a good-looking guy (not model or actor type naturally, but above average in looks) and I did fairly good in my single days at first with Latina girls and dated only Euro-mestizas and one Mediterranean-looking Latina, in the long term, it was Hell for me as I could not tolerate their lies, shamelessnes, cynical comments, lame excuses for everything, unreliability, lack of motivation, reason, intellectual topics, and seriousness when seriousness was needed. With my Japanese wife, though she lied to me once, she has been honest the rest of the time, is consistent, reliable, practical. intellectual, ambitious monetarily like me, and does not give lame excuses. My wife has a strong character and temper, but hey, I am Latino, I can handle that in a woman unlike most American men cannot.
TBH, many Mexican women tell my wife she is lucky to have a husband like me as even though I am far from perfect, I am no womanizer,spendthrift, macho, misogynist man like most Mexican men tend to be and told her directly that finding a good, reliable, responsible man in Mexico is extremely difficult. And these women who told her this are middle class acquaintances of her. My wife acknowledge these qualities in me as she knows I love her deeply and I am faithful to her.
True. However it does depend a bit on the country I would guess. There are obviously huge differences between Latin countries. A place like the Dominican Republic has little in common with a country like Chile, yet both are part of Latin America. In some countries a certain percentage of the women (not all or even most obviously) DO like and maybe even prefer gringos. Of course it is hard to know WHY exactly these women like white guys. They say it is because they believe gringos are less 'machista', are less likely to be "mujeriegos" and they like our "ojos azules" LOL. Maybe, maybe not.
In some countries like Peru many women "se emocionan con los gringos" (their words not mine LOL). However that does not mean all of the women will throw themselves at you just because you are white. In fact I also got quite a few negative comments on my skin color there (I am quite pale). Many Peruvians told me I needed to go to "la playa URGENTE" Jajaja (Peruvians are very blunt). I also heard some women say "Ay, a mi no me gustan los gringos, prefiero los morenitos."
I go to Zara for my professional clothes and other dressy stuff, I need the slim styles. I also like Sfera also, wish we had one in the USA. I mix some of these European fashions with my boots, cowboy-cut blue jeans, bandanas.... classical American man appearance, with a twist.
I am reading a book now, the Mexico Reader, with lots of information about Mexican history. I wonder where the lying trend started. Also want to learn more about the certain kind of racism and classism that exists in Mexico. I've had mostly polite exchanges when in Guadalajara. A few weird stares from a few guys, but nothing confrontational. I get more weird stares/comments from Mexicans in the United States. Most Mex-Ams are blue-collar trash. The diversity of Mexico is fascinating, but also challenging to understand what to expect. At least here in the upper Midwest, as a culturally aware white man, I know where I stand, e.g. what neighborhoods are off-limits for me.
It does depend on the country. More developed countries like Mexico, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay, most women are indifferent towards a foreign man. But poor countries like Peru, Cuba, Ecuador, Colombia or Dominican Republic, they like foreign men (but for the wrong reasons and of course they WILL NOT tell you that).
For me, peruanas are ugly and most Latin Americans we consider Peruvians and their closest cousins the Bolivians as the most ugly in the region (you know why most likely). Never quite understood why some gringos find peruanas attractive. Prefer more tapatias (Mexican women from Guadalajara), Colombian, Venezuelan, Chilean and Argentine women.