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Why I Am Leaving America (Long Read)

What's your story? Discussions your reasons for going abroad.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby djfourmoney » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:48 am

Good Luck Phx Sosa...

America is in deep decline yet still remains extremely racist and judging by some of the threads lately some people buy into that hook, line and sinker.

You are always going to have a problem being Atheist in a country that claims to be "White Christian Nation". Also with Black America who seem to think that Jesus will finally delivery them from the oppression that has gone on for 300+ years and threatens the foundation of Africa.

Denmark is trying to pass a law to demand that new immigrants to have over $17,000US in the bank. This obviously means they only want a certain "type" in the country and frankly my brother that likely includes you. I am not saying Danish people as a whole have a problem with Black folk, but they elected the current Government, so you can draw your own conclusion with that one.

Have you considered Iceland? Its no worst than Denmark and housing is quite affordable from a Western point of view. Its just as cold and dark in the winter too...

Marrying a local is likely your best way to dual citizenship, though having said that, do you really need citizenship? In the modern world you really only need to be a legal resident. You will not get any additional brownie points for speaking the local language, being a citizen or being deeply involved in their culture/society. You should work yourself into the culture and learn enough to get by, most Danes speak English. In fact, as long as you stay in the major cities you won't need to know the language beyond basic words and phases. In most countries no matter how well you speak the language you're still considered an outsider, that's the ugly truth many expats will no talk about.

So I would propose you be more of a casual observer of the society and culture of a country, don't try and adopt it. One of the FEW ways America has every country BEATEN is being INCLUSIVE. You can always become an American, even if you're not born here and other Americans encourage you to become American as well.

As far as I know many EU countries, Germany being one of them do not allow Dual Citizenship, so you either become a German Citizen or a legal resident and there's basically no difference. On the show In Holland, the host is an African-American who wants to become a legal resident of Holland (The Netherlands) and has fluency with Dutch. That's all well and good, but he's dark. Many Dutch will consider him African until he says otherwise, that is more than likely not a good thing. Whatever the case he feels he'll do better knowing Dutch. I say, that's complete BS. Dutch are taught English from a young age (preschool) and most attain fluency by their teenage years. Sure you can find somebody that doesn't speak or speaks broken English but so what. You can also live in areas they have quite a few Americans in it. I tend to find Americans that don't live in the bubble tend to be better, but also retain some of the most bothersome traits like being carefree with relationships as in not remembering people's houses you were just over...

All that said, I think EU is the easiest to adjust too. Its still Western Culture, many of the people speak workable if not fluent English along with their own language and to be FLAT honest, most women interest in you are going to be somewhat Pro America which is not really a bad thing.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:35 am

Great rant Phoenix Sosa.

What about Czech Republic? I heard that was an atheist country too.

As an Atheist, what do you think of my new essay debunking Christian beliefs?

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Problems.htm
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Postby Fenix » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:25 am

Thanks everyone for your comments!

@Winston, I will read your essay. I have thought about Czech Republic. I have been researching it the past few weeks now.

I have to ask one of my Danish friends if what you say is true,k djfourmoney. I have heard that this issue is mainly Muslims, but I will research this law some more.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:41 am

Let me know what you think of that essay Phoenix Sosa.

Btw, would you dare to post this thread on your facebook wall?

http://www.facebook.com/phoenixsosa

What would your friends think?

Btw, regarding Czech Republic, I have a buddy there named Robert Woodard. He's been there since 2005 when I left Poland. He teaches English and plays in a band there, and he meets awesome people everyday, I hear. If you want to write him and ask him any questions about Czech Republic, here is his Facebook profile:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=513127029

You can tell him that I referred you. Here are pics of him and his band and his son.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... &sk=photos
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby FreeYourMind » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:30 am

djfourmoney wrote: America is in deep decline yet still remains extremely racist and judging by some of the threads lately some people buy into that hook, line and sinker.

You are always going to have a problem being Atheist in a country that claims to be "White Christian Nation". Also with Black America who seem to think that Jesus will finally delivery them from the oppression that has gone on for 300+ years and threatens the foundation of Africa.


Has there ever been a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-religious country that has been successful? What is a nation if not a group of people sharing something in common, almost always race, tribe, or some kind of ethnic kinship?

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm a free thinker on religious and racial issues, but given human nature can a society that is a hodge podge of all different kinds of beliefs and ethnicities have a chance of being successful? I'd say the present-day U.S. is strong evidence that it can't. There's not a single prominent politician that will say publicly that the U.S. is a "White Christian Nation." Anyone who does would be instantly made into an outcast and worse by the PTB. All politicians have to pay homage to "diversity." "Diversity is our strength" is America's unofficial motto. But is it really?
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Postby ladislav » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:56 pm

Some of my comments on the above:

The necessity of language learning depends on a country. Denmark? Almost an English speaking country. Same with Iceland. Belarus? No. In many Latin American countries no English is spoken and Spanish is generally expected if you live there. A vacation at a resort is different. Living is another story. But I do not really know about Denmark, it is just that I study the language when I go and live in a country and I do it as a sacred duty. Regardless of what the locals think or do not think.

In Japan most people do not speak English. So, if you live there, you should learn Japanese.

Whether you will be seen as an outsider or an insider again depends on what you want to do there. I personally learn languages because I want to function in that society more or less the way locals function. Like ask for directions, eat at a store and then just sit and have a conversation on daily topics. I am not trying to become one of them and do not care how they view me. In some cases, language knowledge is a liability, in most it is not. It depends on the country. Even in Canada, if you want to live in the French part, like in Quebec city, people want you to speak French as a rule. Ditto for Russia.
I say learn languages and speak them with or without brownie points. It is something you do for yourself.
As far as being an outsider and being viewed by them as one, it again depends how large a gap that presents. If it means- no friends, no girl and no job and maybe an attack, then it is a heavy outsider.
If it just means people will ask you a few questions and not give you funny looks and just treat you as a fellow human being, then I guess it is OK to be one.

As far as the ability of a foreigner to become an American vs. one's inability to become a German or a Japanese/Korean basically here is what I have to say:

There are two types of countries in the world- ethnic indigenous ones and immigrant ones. Immigrant ones are: US, Canada, Nz, Oz, S. Africa, and all the countries in Latin America. In all these immigrant/settler countries, you can more or less "become" one of them. Argentina for one, Uruguay ,etc. Brazil. And your degree of assimilation/becoming one of them depends on how much you look and talk like the locals. If you have an accent ( a b-tch to get rid of after age 12) you will never be seen as a real local. In America, it is not as easy as you think, really. Like I do not think anyone calls Arnold Schwartzenegger an American. He don't talk like one, don't act like one. So, kind of like a half-assed American or so.

Also, people born in the US, who are citizens, but who look "different"- like an Indian American or Iranian, get asked-" what's your nationality, where' re you from?" That is routine. But someone who is of British descent does not. So, it is not as easy as you think. Then they attach the words " German- born, Polish-born, immigrant "( after the person has been naturalized for decades) when they write about the person in the media. It is so important to them. So, not everything is as honkey dorey as you think.

In the Philippines, if you become a citizen and you speak Tagalog fluently, the locals will generally consider you one of them. In Korea, no. So it depends. The Philippines is also an immigrant country.

Now, Korea, Japan, Germany, Russia, Poland. Now these are not immigrant nations. They are basically races with certain faces and languages and religions. There, you can never be one of them unless you are of the same race. Born there or not. But it may or may not matter. If you can socialize, breed and work there, then who cares?

Successful multicultural country? Singapore, Switzerland, Kazakhstan is doing very well. Argentina and Brazil are OK. If there are problems, it is not because of multiculturalism, it is because of corruption. Serbia is mono-cultural but corrupt as hell.

The US is failing culturally because it does not unite its people under one name- Americans. It introduced the hyphenation. And there is a lot of resentment in social life among races so if you try and mingle, you will be rejected if you are not that color/race.

In Brazil, Panama or the Philippines ( a home to hundreds of languages and tribes) there is tolerance and little hatred. The people generally respect each other.
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Postby E_Irizarry » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:49 pm

Think Different wrote:
ladislav wrote:Anyway, hope things work out for you in Denmark and hope you feel happy there.


Marry a Danish chick, and you're home free....then get divorced, after you get the passport.


QUote of the thread: +1 LMAO!
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
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"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

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Postby Fenix » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:47 pm

Winston wrote:Let me know what you think of that essay Phoenix Sosa.

Btw, would you dare to post this thread on your facebook wall?

http://www.facebook.com/phoenixsosa

What would your friends think?

Btw, regarding Czech Republic, I have a buddy there named Robert Woodard. He's been there since 2005 when I left Poland. He teaches English and plays in a band there, and he meets awesome people everyday, I hear. If you want to write him and ask him any questions about Czech Republic, here is his Facebook profile:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=513127029

You can tell him that I referred you. Here are pics of him and his band and his son.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... &sk=photos


Funny how you say that, Winston. I only have like maybe 4 or 5 friends out of 191 on my Facebook that I trust and talk to. I already told them my hatred of America. I can rant and rave on here all day, but these people on my friends list don't give two shits. I would be wasting my time posting. I am not into the whole "I ate pancakes today, they were so yummy!" mindset on Facebook and other sites where you post stupid statuses all day long. I am on Facebook to reconnect with so-called friends and family.

I will message this guy. Thank you, Winston.
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Postby Fenix » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:55 pm

ladislav wrote:Some of my comments on the above:

The necessity of language learning depends on a country. Denmark? Almost an English speaking country. Same with Iceland. Belarus? No. In many Latin American countries no English is spoken and Spanish is generally expected if you live there. A vacation at a resort is different. Living is another story. But I do not really know about Denmark, it is just that I study the language when I go and live in a country and I do it as a sacred duty. Regardless of what the locals think or do not think.

In Japan most people do not speak English. So, if you live there, you should learn Japanese.

Whether you will be seen as an outsider or an insider again depends on what you want to do there. I personally learn languages because I want to function in that society more or less the way locals function. Like ask for directions, eat at a store and then just sit and have a conversation on daily topics. I am not trying to become one of them and do not care how they view me. In some cases, language knowledge is a liability, in most it is not. It depends on the country. Even in Canada, if you want to live in the French part, like in Quebec city, people want you to speak French as a rule. Ditto for Russia.
I say learn languages and speak them with or without brownie points. It is something you do for yourself.
As far as being an outsider and being viewed by them as one, it again depends how large a gap that presents. If it means- no friends, no girl and no job and maybe an attack, then it is a heavy outsider.
If it just means people will ask you a few questions and not give you funny looks and just treat you as a fellow human being, then I guess it is OK to be one.

As far as the ability of a foreigner to become an American vs. one's inability to become a German or a Japanese/Korean basically here is what I have to say:

There are two types of countries in the world- ethnic indigenous ones and immigrant ones. Immigrant ones are: US, Canada, Nz, Oz, S. Africa, and all the countries in Latin America. In all these immigrant/settler countries, you can more or less "become" one of them. Argentina for one, Uruguay ,etc. Brazil. And your degree of assimilation/becoming one of them depends on how much you look and talk like the locals. If you have an accent ( a b-tch to get rid of after age 12) you will never be seen as a real local. In America, it is not as easy as you think, really. Like I do not think anyone calls Arnold Schwartzenegger an American. He don't talk like one, don't act like one. So, kind of like a half-assed American or so.

Also, people born in the US, who are citizens, but who look "different"- like an Indian American or Iranian, get asked-" what's your nationality, where' re you from?" That is routine. But someone who is of British descent does not. So, it is not as easy as you think. Then they attach the words " German- born, Polish-born, immigrant "( after the person has been naturalized for decades) when they write about the person in the media. It is so important to them. So, not everything is as honkey dorey as you think.

In the Philippines, if you become a citizen and you speak Tagalog fluently, the locals will generally consider you one of them. In Korea, no. So it depends. The Philippines is also an immigrant country.

Now, Korea, Japan, Germany, Russia, Poland. Now these are not immigrant nations. They are basically races with certain faces and languages and religions. There, you can never be one of them unless you are of the same race. Born there or not. But it may or may not matter. If you can socialize, breed and work there, then who cares?

Successful multicultural country? Singapore, Switzerland, Kazakhstan is doing very well. Argentina and Brazil are OK. If there are problems, it is not because of multiculturalism, it is because of corruption. Serbia is mono-cultural but corrupt as hell.

The US is failing culturally because it does not unite its people under one name- Americans. It introduced the hyphenation. And there is a lot of resentment in social life among races so if you try and mingle, you will be rejected if you are not that color/race.

In Brazil, Panama or the Philippines ( a home to hundreds of languages and tribes) there is tolerance and little hatred. The people generally respect each other.


Excellent post! Even though the Danes speak fluent English, I still want to learn Danish. It is more of the challenge of me learning it than anything else. I want to learn the culture, languages, etc. of the country I want to live in. I think Danish is a beautiful language. They have a lot of weird sounds, but I am surprised I can even say! Czech on the other hand, lol, I have no idea how that is going to work, but if I decide to move there, I will do my best to learn the language.

I was going to say that Brazil is multi-cultural and I think it is successful. I agree that we are hyphenated. We are not Americans. All Brazilians are Brazilians. Doesn't matter your skin color. I was playing NBA 2K11 yesterday on my Xbox 360 and this guy that plays on the Detroit Pistons is from Sweden. The announcer said "Swedish-born player..." I laughed. Just call him an American. Many of us don't even have an identity here. We are put in little groups. On applications, you will see the "five tribes" on there. You can't escape it. Then all of the division with the white this and Mexican owned that.

Anyway, I need to stop rambling.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:38 am

Multiculturalism = Glorified Apartheid.
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Postby Think Different » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:59 am

Phoenix Sosa wrote:
ladislav wrote:Some of my comments on the above:

The necessity of language learning depends on a country. Denmark? Almost an English speaking country. Same with Iceland. Belarus? No. In many Latin American countries no English is spoken and Spanish is generally expected if you live there. A vacation at a resort is different. Living is another story. But I do not really know about Denmark, it is just that I study the language when I go and live in a country and I do it as a sacred duty. Regardless of what the locals think or do not think.

In Japan most people do not speak English. So, if you live there, you should learn Japanese.

Whether you will be seen as an outsider or an insider again depends on what you want to do there. I personally learn languages because I want to function in that society more or less the way locals function. Like ask for directions, eat at a store and then just sit and have a conversation on daily topics. I am not trying to become one of them and do not care how they view me. In some cases, language knowledge is a liability, in most it is not. It depends on the country. Even in Canada, if you want to live in the French part, like in Quebec city, people want you to speak French as a rule. Ditto for Russia.
I say learn languages and speak them with or without brownie points. It is something you do for yourself.
As far as being an outsider and being viewed by them as one, it again depends how large a gap that presents. If it means- no friends, no girl and no job and maybe an attack, then it is a heavy outsider.
If it just means people will ask you a few questions and not give you funny looks and just treat you as a fellow human being, then I guess it is OK to be one.

As far as the ability of a foreigner to become an American vs. one's inability to become a German or a Japanese/Korean basically here is what I have to say:

There are two types of countries in the world- ethnic indigenous ones and immigrant ones. Immigrant ones are: US, Canada, Nz, Oz, S. Africa, and all the countries in Latin America. In all these immigrant/settler countries, you can more or less "become" one of them. Argentina for one, Uruguay ,etc. Brazil. And your degree of assimilation/becoming one of them depends on how much you look and talk like the locals. If you have an accent ( a b-tch to get rid of after age 12) you will never be seen as a real local. In America, it is not as easy as you think, really. Like I do not think anyone calls Arnold Schwartzenegger an American. He don't talk like one, don't act like one. So, kind of like a half-assed American or so.

Also, people born in the US, who are citizens, but who look "different"- like an Indian American or Iranian, get asked-" what's your nationality, where' re you from?" That is routine. But someone who is of British descent does not. So, it is not as easy as you think. Then they attach the words " German- born, Polish-born, immigrant "( after the person has been naturalized for decades) when they write about the person in the media. It is so important to them. So, not everything is as honkey dorey as you think.

In the Philippines, if you become a citizen and you speak Tagalog fluently, the locals will generally consider you one of them. In Korea, no. So it depends. The Philippines is also an immigrant country.

Now, Korea, Japan, Germany, Russia, Poland. Now these are not immigrant nations. They are basically races with certain faces and languages and religions. There, you can never be one of them unless you are of the same race. Born there or not. But it may or may not matter. If you can socialize, breed and work there, then who cares?

Successful multicultural country? Singapore, Switzerland, Kazakhstan is doing very well. Argentina and Brazil are OK. If there are problems, it is not because of multiculturalism, it is because of corruption. Serbia is mono-cultural but corrupt as hell.

The US is failing culturally because it does not unite its people under one name- Americans. It introduced the hyphenation. And there is a lot of resentment in social life among races so if you try and mingle, you will be rejected if you are not that color/race.

In Brazil, Panama or the Philippines ( a home to hundreds of languages and tribes) there is tolerance and little hatred. The people generally respect each other.


Excellent post! Even though the Danes speak fluent English, I still want to learn Danish. It is more of the challenge of me learning it than anything else. I want to learn the culture, languages, etc. of the country I want to live in. I think Danish is a beautiful language. They have a lot of weird sounds, but I am surprised I can even say! Czech on the other hand, lol, I have no idea how that is going to work, but if I decide to move there, I will do my best to learn the language.

I was going to say that Brazil is multi-cultural and I think it is successful. I agree that we are hyphenated. We are not Americans. All Brazilians are Brazilians. Doesn't matter your skin color. I was playing NBA 2K11 yesterday on my Xbox 360 and this guy that plays on the Detroit Pistons is from Sweden. The announcer said "Swedish-born player..." I laughed. Just call him an American. Many of us don't even have an identity here. We are put in little groups. On applications, you will see the "five tribes" on there. You can't escape it. Then all of the division with the white this and Mexican owned that.

Anyway, I need to stop rambling.


Two things:

1. I speak Czech (it's gotten rusty by now), but worked my ass off to learn it very well and it was appreciated by the Czechs, when I lived there. Thing is, that the 15 years since I left there I've found absolutely ZERO opportunity or need to speak it. It is a minority language and the Czechs know it. Most of them speak some English or German and they don't expect a foreigner to take the time to learn it. Given the difficulty of the language, I would recommend learning Russian or even Polish instead, if learning a difficult Slavic language is your goal. Job-wise it will give you more opportunities, IMHO. You might also want to consider one of the synthetic/man-made Slavic languages, which are supposedly very easy to learn and allow you to at least make yourself understood in most Slavic countries. For example: www.slovio.com

Danish is also a minority language, although not as hard as the Slavic languages. If you really intend to live in Denmark, great...go ahead and learn it. If you don't intend to stay in Denmark long-term, I'd recommend German instead. Germany has long been the economic powerhouse of Europe and the language is vital.

2. I think part of the reason Americans are so focused on hyphenated ethnic statuses is because we tend to be a nation of mutts. We don't really have a culture to speak of, we have a very short national history (which is ending), and I think it's human nature to try to find groups of people to associate with, with whom we have something deeper in common than how much beer you drank over the weekend or how many chicks you slept with. At some level I believe that thinking Americans know the "culture" is shallow and flawed and they are seeking something with meaning and permanence. Just look at how popular DNA testing and genealogy has become in the US. It's like people are trying to at least mentally escape the prison of "US culture" they find themselves in. It's a bit of escapism.
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Your essay was as usual Genius!

Postby ErikHeaven » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:45 pm

it is logically impossible for there to be a God who is both all-powerful and all-good, as orthodox Christians claim, yet allows all this to be. Winston your writing is impeccable.
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Postby Heart of Shadows » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:18 am

Phoenix Sosa I can identify a bit as I'm a black guy and have been an atheist since I was 15 and before that church just bored me to sleep and even younger I just got caught in the whole hell scare story. I'm young with not many attachments and most times I tend to feel nothing but malice for not only everybody around me but also the way this country is. All people can do is preach and whine for somebody to save them while they bark at each other and yell who's fault it is while they keep getting screwed even more.

Republican, democrat who gives a damn.
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Postby FreeYourMind » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:35 am

Not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties. That's what George Wallace said in the 1960s and it's just as true today. But Americans are too dense and so easily fooled. Most have never even visited any other countries yet will emphatically tell anyone that the USA is the greatest country in the world and anyone who disagrees is a communist. How do they know? Because their "Judeo-Christian" preacher tells them so, and so does Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. At a time when consciousness is rising around the world, most Americans would easily fit into the mentality of the 1930s and '40s. And that of the 1830s for that matter.
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Postby E_Irizarry » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:25 pm

@Heart of Shadows,

Welcome to the forum, budd. Make it your home like the 80s Jamaica tourist commercial.

FreeYourMind wrote:Not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties. That's what George Wallace said in the 1960s and it's just as true today. But Americans are too dense and so easily fooled. Most have never even visited any other countries yet will emphatically tell anyone that the USA is the greatest country in the world and anyone who disagrees is a communist. How do they know? Because their "Judeo-Christian" preacher tells them so, and so does Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. At a time when consciousness is rising around the world, most Americans would easily fit into the mentality of the 1930s and '40s. And that of the 1830s for that matter.


I voted Demo in 2004 like a sucker. The way the event had gone was beyond appalling to how Kerry conceded; I had learned that it was rigged the whole, entire time after the fact. Never again. You better ask somebody.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
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"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
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"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

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