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The Main Reason Why I Am Leaving The USA

What's your story? Discussions your reasons for going abroad.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby skeptic » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:07 pm

Montanaland wrote:We need to people like you who hold on to the belief that America and its intergrity can't possibly fail. When in actuallity the debts are to great to be paid back as the middle class quietly erodes.


I'm not saying it can't. It just doesn't seem releveant at this point. Well, in theory, if, as a result of the recession, some regions of the United States end up better off than others, then some separatists could come up (either in the wealthier or in the poorer regions) to promote a breakup of the country. But historic practice has shown that it's usually easier to survive bad times together than apart. Why didn't the U.S. break up during the Great Depression? By the way, isn't Europe now in recession, too? But nobody seriously considers to break the EU. No, I'm not denying some possibility of a U.S. collapse. But I don't see a strong basis for it at this point. And, as for debts, it rather seems that the creditor countries are interested to see the U.S. being indebted to them.

Montanaland wrote:Yes, I do!!


The Soviet communists have already shown how credible their power is. Apparently, Chinese authorities proved smarter and allowed free markets, which ultimately brought them to economic growth. But don't forget that it's still based on cheap labor. And they don't have some of the freedom we take for granted.

Montanaland wrote:Again, as much as I enjoyed democracy....I believe it Doesn't work in the end! Some hybrid form of gov. such as capitalism/socialism or democracy/socialism... or??


I agree with that. Let's see what ideas President Obama comes up with.

Montanaland wrote:I don't know what to tell you Skeptic? Lets just agree>>not to agree and you can keep on hoping and praying that the US stays afloat another 25yrs so you can keep your US govt job in New York City.


My government job is state-based (and not even directly statet-based; it's just state-funded), so it's not really linked with the existence of the United States government.

Montanaland wrote:I on the other hand am going to use this countries great educational system again and aquire a MA in Tesol so I can be marketable on a global scale.


You can also pray and hope you succeed in that. By the way, with my Masters in transportation planning, I can be globally marketable, too. By the way, our CEO was preveiously holding a key transportation position in the U.K.
You can run away from America, but you CAN'T run away from yourself.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:17 pm

Link4love. If you have a good job in NY and you are a Russian speaker, you are ahead of the game compared to most of us. You are also only 32. You can basically get a model quality girl from a CIS country in heartbeat and bring her back to the US. Then you can have a happy family. You also will not have cultural problems that other people face as you can relate to those cultures and help the girl acclimate in the US. You are very lucky in that you are living in lucky times.
I was 17 when I left the former USSR and the girl whom I loved was never able to leave. We were very much in love. The local KGB ruined her life and her future because she was writing letters to the US. I never ever saw her again and then, her letters disappeared. The KGB simply stole them. It was a terrible experience.

When I was 32 I had trouble getting work in the US and also trouble dating. No way I could get a girl from the CIS in those times. So I left for Asia. Now I am kind of "stuck" here. Not a bad place to be stuck in, but if I were 32 with a good job in NY and all these opportunities of being able to bring a gal to America, maybe I would not leave at all. Or even be on this board. Most people here are the ones who have not had your type of opportunities- or things just did not work out for us, so, we have self-multinationalized or are in the process of doing so.
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Postby Linc4Love » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:06 am

ladislav wrote:Link4love. If you have a good job in NY and you are a Russian speaker, you are ahead of the game compared to most of us. You are also only 32. You can basically get a model quality girl from a CIS country in heartbeat and bring her back to the US. Then you can have a happy family. You also will not have cultural problems that other people face as you can relate to those cultures and help the girl acclimate in the US. You are very lucky in that you are living in lucky times.
I was 17 when I left the former USSR and the girl whom I loved was never able to leave. We were very much in love. The local KGB ruined her life and her future because she was writing letters to the US. I never ever saw her again and then, her letters disappeared. The KGB simply stole them. It was a terrible experience.

When I was 32 I had trouble getting work in the US and also trouble dating. No way I could get a girl from the CIS in those times. So I left for Asia. Now I am kind of "stuck" here. Not a bad place to be stuck in, but if I were 32 with a good job in NY and all these opportunities of being able to bring a gal to America, maybe I would not leave at all. Or even be on this board. Most people here are the ones who have not had your type of opportunities- or things just did not work out for us, so, we have self-multinationalized or are in the process of doing so.


I appreciate your vote of confidence, really feel bad about what the KGB did to your life too.

BTW, I'm 34 now. :D

To be honest, I've only recently developed the capacity for international travel, and thus to ability to meet women in other countries. I generate a second income now from an internet business, which I'm not using exclusively as a travel budget. What's possible now simply wasn't possible a year ago, so I have to count my blessings, and I'm hoping what's currently a secondary income will eventually become a primary one so I can live anywhere. God bless the Internet that something like this could even be feasible.

I still need to renew my passport, so in the meantime, I'm making as many domestic travel plans as I can. I'm hoping to visit all 50 states, Canada, and eventually abroad as well.

As much as I gripe, I still love my country and do want to see as much of it as possible. There's something to be said about traveling though, even if it's only domestic. It increases the odds of meeting someone nice exponentially. I noticed this during my autumn trips to Lake Placid and Pennsylvania. Locally, women won't even acknowledge my presence, and if they do it's overtly hostile. But during my trips, I counted at least 5 girls, two of who flirted with me. If I had never traveled beyond a 150 mile radius I never would have experienced this. Sure, 99 percent still suck donkey dick, but go to an area where only 95 percent suck, and you quickly notice the difference. :D

I have to say in my case, the answer is not in dating sites or meeting up with people locally, it's by getting the f**k out of my shell and globetrotting as much as I can.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:51 am

skeptic,
I'm beginning to see that you are different than us. Dating is not top priority for you. It doesn't make or break a culture for you. It seems you value your "religious freedom" more, and your career and job.

Religious freedom is not what the folks here are looking for.

Besides, in most countries, you can be a Protestant and that's ok. Not just in America. Even in Russia now, you can be a Protestant. I went to a Protestant church there to visit friends.

Btw, you have it backwards when you say that we cannot rely on our own power and have to rely on an external religion. You've been brainwashed to be weak and let the church control you. That's why your religion was created. Those at the top of the pyramid in your religion know this. Your religion is a synthesis of Pagan beliefs, Sun God worship, and fascist control. Jesus is just a replacement for "The Sun", thus he is "The Son", and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac. Everything was repackaged. It's all about control.

Religion was not created to free men, but to contain them. You are just a victim of that brainwashing. Watch this for an idea of what's going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8zohMUaUog

See also the first part of the Zeitgeist movie about the origin of Christianity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0

The truth is, we have divine power. God is within us. It's the evil elite that want you to think otherwise and give your power away, so you will be weak and dependent and forget your true power.

Btw, you didn't answer my question. You saw my Russia videos. How many parts? Other than me being a foreigner, it proved that the girls there were NATURALLY much more open, relaxed, direct and approachable. Not just to me, but to RUSSIAN MEN too, to their own local men too. Do you dispute that? If so, why? If not, what the hell are you arguing about?

The videos are spontaneous 100 percent proof. It shows that the girls are different. And it's not just cause I'm a foreigner and exotic Asian.

Do you deny these 6 differences?

http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page52.htm

You said you've never been to Russia. If so, aren't you unqualified to assess this? Aren't you drawing conclusions without experience?

You have not traveled much. So you are very limited in your ideas about America.

How do you explain these perspectives here?

http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page32.htm

Also, if immigrants are so happy in America, as you say, how do you explain all these Indian immigrants who feel so lonely and isolated?

http://www.littleindia.com/august2004/U ... merica.htm

If most Americans are happy, why is the divorce rate 50 or 60 percent? And why is mental illness so high in America?

Can you answer those questions?
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:07 am

skeptic wrote:Winston, it's not pessimism, it's optimism - optimism about staying in America. It's most of the forum that is based on pessimism. Most of your posts are not about how good other countries are, but rather about how terrible America is.
As for this guy's two-year stay in Peru, he didn't write what he was doing there. Maybe he was just a teenager or a college student back then. That means, his two years were not as routine and boring as a regular working man's life. You never know what conclusion he would come to after these two years multipliede by five.
I don't see anything "debunked" in that thread. I guess, the axiom that "you don't need explanation; just take it at face value" should prove the most debunking. But it doesn't.
Besides, I never say it's bad elsewhere. All I say is that moving abroad (or going there for dating only) is not a remedy for the social problems many of you have in America. There is no paradice on Earth for people who are challenged in one way or another, "dating-challenged" in this case.


Not true. Have you seen my comparison chart?
http://www.happierabroad.com/comparison.htm

For every negative trait I bring up about the US, there is a positive trait abroad. Equal. It is you who are one sided.

You must be very ignorant. The guy was not talking about teenage life in general. He was talking about his two years experiencing Peruvian culture. It was obvious from the context of his letter.

He is one of many who found that he is happier abroad.

Here are more:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Great_Letters.htm

How do you explain all those experiences that don't fit your paradigm?

You said:

"All I say is that moving abroad (or going there for dating only) is not a remedy for the social problems many of you have in America. There is no paradice on Earth for people who are challenged in one way or another, "dating-challenged" in this case."

How the hell would you know this? You haven't dated abroad and you can't speak for others. So why do you pretend to be God? Sheesh you are really damn closed minded. No wonder you fell for Christian fundamentalism.

If it's not a remedy, then how come many have found it to be a remedy? Are they all lying? Are we all conning you? I am not the only one who found it to be a remedy. Many have. Click the testimonials button at the top of this page. And see these especially:

http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page74b.htm

Read all those testimonials at the link above. How do you explain them??? HOW???

How do you know that the "dating challenged" will not do better abroad? On what basis? You have neither personal proof or scientific proof. How many guys do you know who dated abroad and regretted it?

Besides, people are "dating challenged" for different reasons. Why do you lump them all together and claim that they will be losers everywhere they go? That is so narrow and shallow. No wonder you work for the government. You are a total conformist with no independent intellectual thought.

Not all "dating challenged" are so due to defects. Some are due to race, age, height, etc. Some are great people who are nice and healthy. American dating is tough for most single guys.

You say you haven't gone out yet and approached American women, nor do you care to, so what the f**k do you know about it?

For example, my height of 5ft 7 makes me too short for women in the US, and they don't like Asian men too. But in some countries my height is not a big issue and some are more open to Asian men. So how is that not better?

You aren't making any f***ing sense.

Nor are you addressing these questions and examples.

You are a robot with very narrow views. That's why you are a Christian and government worker. Easy to program.

Free speech my ass. If you think you have free speech in America, as you claim, then I dare you to go to your government job, and tell everyone "9/11 is an inside job" or ask questions about the Twin Towers and WTC7 collapse and the speed at which they fell, and watch how fast you get fired from your job. I dare you!

Or, tell all your coworkers that you don't like how women are not feminine in America and all the double standards against men in America. Watch how fast you get fired.

Try it, if you dare, if you really think America tolerates your free speech.

Otherwise, you're all talk and not for real.

You've been debunked on every point, yet you still repeat the same stuff, like a programmed robot. Maybe you are a mind controlled shill from MK-ULTRA.

You are like a computer, who after being checkmated in chess. plays on like he hasn't lost yet.

Please address all these examples and questions.

See the letters from the Russian woman and the South African woman in the Rants and Raves section. They are far more real and intellectual than you are.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:10 am

ladislav wrote:Link4love. If you have a good job in NY and you are a Russian speaker, you are ahead of the game compared to most of us. You are also only 32. You can basically get a model quality girl from a CIS country in heartbeat and bring her back to the US. Then you can have a happy family. You also will not have cultural problems that other people face as you can relate to those cultures and help the girl acclimate in the US. You are very lucky in that you are living in lucky times.
I was 17 when I left the former USSR and the girl whom I loved was never able to leave. We were very much in love. The local KGB ruined her life and her future because she was writing letters to the US. I never ever saw her again and then, her letters disappeared. The KGB simply stole them. It was a terrible experience.

When I was 32 I had trouble getting work in the US and also trouble dating. No way I could get a girl from the CIS in those times. So I left for Asia. Now I am kind of "stuck" here. Not a bad place to be stuck in, but if I were 32 with a good job in NY and all these opportunities of being able to bring a gal to America, maybe I would not leave at all. Or even be on this board. Most people here are the ones who have not had your type of opportunities- or things just did not work out for us, so, we have self-multinationalized or are in the process of doing so.


Yeah but Ladislav, the skeptic dude wasn't claiming that he loved NY cause he could get any girl and bring her to the US. That wasn't his argument. He told me in fact that he has not dated even. Dating is not his priority. Religious freedom is.

He is a different breed than us, with different values and priorities. Don't forget that.

He also believes that Jesus was born of a virgin, rose from the dead, walked on water, etc. simply cause he was told so. And that Adam and Eve f***ed up the human race simply by eating a forbidden fruit, condemning billions and angering God.

He is not a freethinker at all, nor an intellectual.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:45 pm

skeptic,
Are you claiming that without the foreign novelty factor, Russian women and all Foreign women are just like American women?

Based on what qualifications do you have? You have no experience, no data, no relationships, etc. Are you just talking out of your ass?

I get it what's up with you now.

I think you know that the claims on this site are true. But you are too comfortable with your job and your religious freedom, and do not want to quit your safe government job. Yet you are disturbed that the dating scene might be better abroad. So you rationalize all the experiences here away, cause if they were true, then you'd feel pressured to go abroad, but you don't want to or can't. So you are using cognitive dissonance as well as confirmation bias.

Also, you moved to the US from Belarus. So you need to find reasons to JUSTIFY your move. You don't want to face the possibility that it could have been a mistake. Thus your mind strongly FILTERS out data that doesn't support your decisions and seeks confirmation of it (aka confirmation bias). It's like the American woman who marries a loser, and afterward rationalizes away all his faults and bad character, cause she wants to believe that she made the right choice, not the wrong one. So she seeks to validate her decision by only seeing good things in him, even if they're not there.

That might explain your butthead psychology and arguments that makes no sense, and why you proclaim "Foreign women are the same!", "Going abroad is not a solution to datelessness in America!" as though it were some religion to you, rather than looking at all the experiences of people who did it.

In simple terms, you are in denial and cognitive dissonance for personal reasons of your own.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:50 pm

Skeptic, here are my 10 reasons why I'm forced to seek dating abroad:

http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page73.htm

Read them and tell me what other option I have, in your closed minded view of course.
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Postby Jackal » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:35 pm

skeptic wrote:But, from what I see on this board, many people (including Winston himself) are bashing America so excessively that it actually makes them sound less credible than they would otherwise.

Well, that's because most of us grew up in the US and suffered a lot there, so we blow of steam venting about it and we also describe very real problems that the US has.

skeptic wrote:Winston can claim anything he wants, but the main thing that I expected in America - religious freedom - I've got it.

Sure, America has religous freedom (although it can very tough in the heavily evangelical parts of the US if you're not Christian), but so do many other countries: Sweden, Finland, Hungary, Slovakia, etc. Religious freedom isn't unique to the US. Hell, I'm a Buddhist and Hungarians put up with me.

skeptic wrote: All I'm saying is that the fact that someone fails in America does not mean America is all bad for everyone.

Sure, but this website is for people who are fed up with America and who want to date foreign women overseas. People with different opinions and goals can go to other more mainstream websites which are abundant.

skeptic wrote:However, are you sure that all guys who post here have ever been abroad? Maybe some of them are simply desperate about their dating situation here, so they somehow hope to have a better luck out there.

Maybe some of the guys who post here have never been abroad, but at least they're interested in foreign countries and in the idea of going abroad. This already puts them ahead of most Americans in this department. Even if some of these guys decide not to live abroad, traveling abroad is an important learning experience.

skeptic wrote:So, what is the best country in the world? Peru? Or, perhaps, Russia or China? I don't think any country can claim being the best in the world.
I depends which criteria are used. I'm sure it's possible to list the countries with the best universal healthcare system, the least crime, the lowest rates of mental illness, the longest life-expectancy, the most single women between the ages of 18 and 25, etc.

But yes, a country that's good for one person won't necessarily be good for another person.

skeptic wrote:
Montanaland wrote:Again, as much as I enjoyed democracy....I believe it Doesn't work in the end! Some hybrid form of gov. such as capitalism/socialism or democracy/socialism... or??


I agree with that. Let's see what ideas President Obama comes up with.

Ha. Despite all right-wing propaganda to the contrary, Obama is quite far from being a socialist. He's certainly not going to create a socialist party or be really hard on big corporations or the financial sector. He definitely won't rock the boat very much. His appointment of mostly former Clinton administration officials showed that. He's a quite a hawkish centrist who's hiding under a progressive mask.

The American left can't compare to South America's left which is truly radical, socialist/anarchist, and sometimes even truly democratic.
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Re: Hope and Pray!

Postby Jackal » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Montanaland wrote:I on the other hand am going to use this countries great educational system again and aquire a MA in Tesol so I can be marketable on a global scale.

Good plan. It's best to use America like a carton of milk: drink as much as you need before the expiration date, and then throw it away!
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Postby skeptic » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:02 am

Winston wrote:Also, you moved to the US from Belarus. So you need to find reasons to JUSTIFY your move. You don't want to face the possibility that it could have been a mistake. Thus your mind strongly FILTERS out data that doesn't support your decisions and seeks confirmation of it (aka confirmation bias).


The decision was not mine alone, it was my parents' and mine. But it wasn't a mistake anyway. Even though I still have overall positive memories about my life in Minsk, I realize that I had no future there (at least in the way I wanted it) for several reasons.

1) Absense of a strong Jewish religious community. Combined with a relatively high level of anti-Semitism (at least in comparison with the U.S.), it meant less freedom to have a religious lifestyle I want. That would mean an extremely limited availability of kosher food (virtually limited to fruit and vegetables, perhaps also some specific brand of bread), an extremely limited availability of daily prayer services (only one functioning synaguge, well, maybe two, in a 220 sq.km area that the city occupies).

2) Army draft. While it could be technically possible to postpone it by getting an admission to a university, I would need to find some way to get away from it after graduation, that is, until I turned 27. Some guys manage to get fake documents about their "poor health". But that's too much aggravation, and no sufficient guarantee to succeed. And the environment in any of the post-Soviet armies is less than gratifying; moreover, they don't have much to protect.

3) Limited amount of Jewish population means limited dating opportunities (given that I don't want to violate the mandate of marrying within the faith). I'm sure there are lots of nice girls in Belarus, but the vast majority of them are not in my faith. In the U.S. the pool of potential dates is much larger.

Thus, the move was strongly justified. We could have moved to Israel instead, if the U.S. opportunity did not come up. Maybe things would be easier there; maybe not so easy either. But once here, I don't see any reason for regred about getting out of Belarus, despite the drawbacks that America has.
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Postby Travel Dude » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:41 am

[quote="Jackal"]Hi Travel Dude,

I hope you find a way to get back to Peru. Do you have a plan for getting back there? Could you teach English there or work in your current field there?

Buena suerte!
***************
Thanks for the positive response Jackal. Yes I will be going back to Peru soon. Most likely I will be tutoring English and just taking it easy.

Look let me make a few points for Skeptic or others who want to rain on my parade.

FIRST POINT: I had a "life" in Peru. People were very friendly and opened their homes and cared about me. My Peruvian wife (who is also a US resident now) has a nice condo in good area of Lima Peru. The condo is payed off, monthly utilities are next to nothing. The neighbors look after each other. There in Peru I can make little money teaching English, set my own hours but I have my life back. I have enough time to travel, eat well and make friends around the country.

SECOND POINT: In the USA, I busted my ass working 10 to 11 hours a day, lived in a lousy small apartment with very nasty neighbors and at the end of the month my general expenses took 80% of my pay.

LAST POINT: The USA has lost it way. I don't know what happened. Its not just the self centered women but the way of life I remember as a child. I am sick of the meanness and lack of concern towards everyone. I am sick of the politics, FOX news, the tea party and the government.

Sorry Skeptic, I speak from experience, I can MAKE COMPARISONS between the US and the rest of the world. Look, you don't have to agree with me try to be more open minded.
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love it or leave it

Postby starkeep » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:58 am

8) I know many seem to think the usa is the best especially if they have a good job wife etc. And that was the case here for years but the way i see things this country is getting worse by the minute. The dollar loses value daily the high unemployment gets worse , the value of houses has already dropped two thirds in value. So if somehow a few arent affected by this and more then maybe life here isnt to bad. From what i have read the realestate will be years before where it was in 2005 and one in 6 are receiving some type of welfare so things arent near as rosy as they were here. Many foreigners have the illusion that the usa is a good place to get rich and if they are highly skilled they have a chance but if not the high unemployment
here is way out of line and many have went back to their native country because they cant find work here. Also if they do find a job it will likely be
temporary and minimum wage because there are so many applying the companys can have high turnover. So retirement overseas may not be so bad
after all.
fed up
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Postby globetrotter » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:39 am

skeptic wrote:3) Limited amount of Jewish population means limited dating opportunities (given that I don't want to violate the mandate of marrying within the faith). I'm sure there are lots of nice girls in Belarus, but the vast majority of them are not in my faith. In the U.S. the pool of potential dates is much larger..


I will just never understand this.

Who cares if your wife is the same religion?

Your genes will travel into the future with your kids.

It's just bizarre - like if you date a non-Jew then your genetic code is considered dead.

It's just anti-intellectual.
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Postby Repatriate » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:49 am

You have to take into consideration that for a lot of people of Jewish religious/ethnic extraction that America alongside Israel is one of the promised lands. I doubt you can convince people like this otherwise because there's such a huge well developed community of Jewish-Americans that it's easy to find success.
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