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The Big Social Catch-22 in America

What's your story? Discussions your reasons for going abroad.

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The Big Social Catch-22 in America

Postby Winston » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:05 am

My new blog post:

http://intellectualexpat.blogspot.com/2 ... erica.html

The Big Social Catch-22 in America

In America, there is a big social Catch-22:

1. On the one hand, you are expected to mind your own business, not need others, and leave other people alone (especially women, who are given special protective status in America). You are supposed to be independent, not lonely, and not complain about lack of companionship, friends or lovers. In fact, you are supposed to pretend that you don't have any natural desires for love, romance or sex (unless it is reciprocated) otherwise you are a creep and pervert. You are also expected to only socialize within your closed clique, while fearing all outside strangers as potentially dangerous psychos and creeps, essentially shutting them out.

2. On the other hand, if you don't have friends, can't get dates, can't meet people, and don't get invited to social activities, then you are considered a loser or socially dysfunctional. Yet given #1, this is what you'd expect as the logical consequence if you don't have an established clique of friends to begin with, for the inherent nature of such cliques is exclusive and designed to "shut you out". And this is true even if you are a really social outgoing extroverted friendly person! Hence the irony and hypocrisy. Essentially you are "between a rock and hard place".

This Catch-22 is the equivalent of me putting you in a locked cell, starving you without food, yet blaming YOU for getting hungry! It's sheer lunacy no doubt.

In spite of this Catch-22, it is taboo to complain about it or expose the conflicting nature of it. Instead, you are expected to utter the programmed party line that our culture and media promotes, which is that "People are naturally open, friendly and cool. If you are a great person who is positive and cool, you'd have plenty of friends and people would invite you into their social and personal lives."

If that isn't true for you, then you are expected to blame yourself, for it is assumed that if you were positive, fun and cool, then people would be open and inclusive toward you. So again, society pits the blame on the victim rather than on itself and its inherently dysfunctional and socially segregated nature.

So, we have a Catch-22 here that you aren't allowed to talk about, and a programmed belief that you're supposed to buy which does not necessarily fit the reality. And anything that conflicts with it is seen as false, wrong, or even socially deviant.

Go figure.

Ok America, I give up. If you don't value the plain and simple truth about your lies, hypocrisy, Catch-22's, dysfunctionality, social segregation, false programming and victim blaming mentality, then I won't participate in your insanity. No thank you! I'll take my sanity and precious valuable life and time someplace else that is saner and more socially functional, healthy and natural.

Peace out.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Adama » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:14 pm

Yup. I remember when I was living in a dorm and some of the women were friendly with me. Not flirtatious, but friendly.

There was a campus concert event that I went to by myself. I didnt care if I was alone or not. This is when I was a freshman. She say me there and asked me why I was alone.

From then on out when I saw her in the common area of the dorm she was very cold and refused to engage me in conversation.

American women in general are like that. I also remember saying one time during another one of those dormitory events that I wash my hair with regular hand/body soap (a bar of soap), rather than shampoo. The collective stares of disgust and the "eww" from women was shocking.

Arbitrary Bullshit in the USA that if you vary away from one iota, you will be socially unacceptable.

Or just let one woman label you a dork, or weird or some other modifier they use to get rid of you. Creepy is another good one. Stalker.
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Postby BellaRuth » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:30 pm

J.Adama wrote: I also remember saying one time during another one of those dormitory events that I wash my hair with regular hand/body soap (a bar of soap), rather than shampoo. The collective stares of disgust and the "eww" from women was shocking.


I'm sorry, what? Men use shampoo?

Haha, all the men I know are more than happy using soap to wash their hair, or shower gel. This surprised me. Do American men usually use conditioner too?
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Re: The Big Social Catch-22 in America

Postby jamesbond » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:57 pm

Winston wrote:1. On the one hand, you are expected to mind your own business, not need others, and leave other people alone (especially women, who are given special protective status in America). You are supposed to be independent, not lonely, and not complain about lack of companionship, friends or lovers. In fact, you are supposed to pretend that you don't have any natural desires for love, romance or sex (unless it is reciprocated) otherwise you are a creep and pervert. You are also expected to only socialize within your closed clique, while fearing all outside strangers as potentially dangerous psychos and creeps, essentially shutting them out.

2. On the other hand, if you don't have friends, can't get dates, can't meet people, and don't get invited to social activities, then you are considered a loser or socially dysfunctional. Yet given #1, this is what you'd expect as the logical consequence if you don't have an established clique of friends to begin with, for the inherent nature of such cliques is exclusive and designed to "shut you out". And this is true even if you are a really social outgoing extroverted friendly person! Hence the irony and hypocrisy. Essentially you are "between a rock and hard place".


It's really important in America to make your friends early in life (grade school, high school and college) because that will be your best opportunity to make friends. Once you are out of school, it becomes very difficult to make friends with people. Once you are out of school, people don't like meeting new people and just hang around their friends that they made in grade school, high school and college.

People who have cliques of friends, do not like new people joining their group. Like Winston said, "the inherent nature of such cliques is exclusive and designed to shut you out." If you complain about this, people assume it is YOUR fault you are having a hard time meeting people and making friends. WTF? :x

In the US, you meet women through your friends for the most part. So another interesting "catch 22" is, if you have no clique of friends to hang out with, how do you meet women?
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Postby Jackal » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:41 pm

I don't think it's always a matter of belonging to a clique, but it's a matter of learning a role and playing it to perfection.

For example, if you are playing the role of a rich preppy kid and you move to a new town where you don't know anybody, you have seek out the other rich preppy kids in the area and make a powerful and flawless first impression so that they immediately see that you are "one of them" or are even better at playing the role (dress better, say wittier things, are richer, etc.) than they are.

It's like prison: you either kick someone's ass the first day (make a good first impression) or become someone's bitch (become a social outcast).

I think my problem and the problem of many of the guys on sites like this was that we didn't want to be any of the pre-made roles which American society had created. We wanted to be free from such limiting stupidity. We wanted to think outside the box and see reality clearly instead of living inside a constant neurotic charade.

This of course leads to the problem of not being any girl's "type." Most American girls need the implicit approval of society and the media before they can find a man acceptable. Simply thinking on her own and evaluating a man objectively based on his words and actions is not what the typical American woman does. That would be a frightening step into the unknown for her. It's much more comfortable for girls to quickly assign labels to people: "Oh, he's a jock. He's a computer nerd. He's a hippie. etc." Unfortunately, their default label for men for whom they cannot find a suitable pre-made label is "loser."

J.Adama wrote:Yup. I remember when I was living in a dorm and some of the women were friendly with me. Not flirtatious, but friendly.

There was a campus concert event that I went to by myself. I didnt care if I was alone or not. This is when I was a freshman. She say me there and asked me why I was alone.

From then on out when I saw her in the common area of the dorm she was very cold and refused to engage me in conversation.

This is a perfect example. Clearly the girl thought that you were a potentially decent guy because she was surprised that you were alone.

However, in America, life is like politics. When a politician goes out to have a hamburger, he's never just "going out for a hamburger." He's extremely careful about the impression he makes and the image he casts. Unfortunately, even ordinary people have to be so paranoid in America because your peers may be watching and if they detect any "un-American" or "loser-like" behavior, they will make your life miserable.

America has no need for secret police because almost every individual US citizen has been conditioned to instinctively act like the society's secret police who enforce the repressive social codes of conduct and who are always watching. And in some cases, fellow Americans will even threaten you with violence if they feel your behavior or opinions have become too unusual.
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Postby Adama » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:59 am

BellaRuth wrote:
J.Adama wrote: I also remember saying one time during another one of those dormitory events that I wash my hair with regular hand/body soap (a bar of soap), rather than shampoo. The collective stares of disgust and the "eww" from women was shocking.


I'm sorry, what? Men use shampoo?

Haha, all the men I know are more than happy using soap to wash their hair, or shower gel. This surprised me. Do American men usually use conditioner too?


I havent taken a survey. I really have no clue. They do make some men's shampoo brands though.
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Re: The Big Social Catch-22 in America

Postby adam917 » Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:39 am

jamesbond wrote:
Winston wrote:1. On the one hand, you are expected to mind your own business, not need others, and leave other people alone (especially women, who are given special protective status in America). You are supposed to be independent, not lonely, and not complain about lack of companionship, friends or lovers. In fact, you are supposed to pretend that you don't have any natural desires for love, romance or sex (unless it is reciprocated) otherwise you are a creep and pervert. You are also expected to only socialize within your closed clique, while fearing all outside strangers as potentially dangerous psychos and creeps, essentially shutting them out.

2. On the other hand, if you don't have friends, can't get dates, can't meet people, and don't get invited to social activities, then you are considered a loser or socially dysfunctional. Yet given #1, this is what you'd expect as the logical consequence if you don't have an established clique of friends to begin with, for the inherent nature of such cliques is exclusive and designed to "shut you out". And this is true even if you are a really social outgoing extroverted friendly person! Hence the irony and hypocrisy. Essentially you are "between a rock and hard place".


It's really important in America to make your friends early in life (grade school, high school and college) because that will be your best opportunity to make friends. Once you are out of school, it becomes very difficult to make friends with people. Once you are out of school, people don't like meeting new people and just hang around their friends that they made in grade school, high school and college.

People who have cliques of friends, do not like new people joining their group. Like Winston said, "the inherent nature of such cliques is exclusive and designed to shut you out." If you complain about this, people assume it is YOUR fault you are having a hard time meeting people and making friends. WTF? :x

In the US, you meet women through your friends for the most part. So another interesting "catch 22" is, if you have no clique of friends to hang out with, how do you meet women?


For me, the trouble started once I finished primary school but really did not get going till I finished secondary school, as I did make a few friends in the two schools I attended for secondary. My 1st college was basically middle-aged people only and I felt very out-of-place though never actually rejected by my fellow classmates, etc. Now in my 2nd school, a major university, it's similar to the way it was in high school (established cliques or cliques being established which is an area I have problems doing / or the people there have problems adding new people to their cliques.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:12 am

BellaRuth wrote:
J.Adama wrote: I also remember saying one time during another one of those dormitory events that I wash my hair with regular hand/body soap (a bar of soap), rather than shampoo. The collective stares of disgust and the "eww" from women was shocking.


I'm sorry, what? Men use shampoo?

Haha, all the men I know are more than happy using soap to wash their hair, or shower gel. This surprised me. Do American men usually use conditioner too?


Are you serious? Have you tried using a bar of soap to wash your hair? It leaves your hair brittle, coarse, not soft or smooth, and hard to comb. Not good at all. Have you tried it?

Shower gel is a little better, but a regular bar of soap?! Most Brit men do that? Why? Their hair looks normal and groomed.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:17 am

Jackal,
That's a good point, and one that I wanted to make before too.

I think most guys on this forum are NOT natural conformists and followers. Like I said in my "Will you be a robot, a bum, or something else?" post, most people are followers and conformists who seek their identity in groups or organizations (their jobs). Such types will more naturally fit into cliques and routines and safe structures.

But we here are probably not conformists by nature. We think and live outside the box, so we do not naturally fit in, except with others like ourselves. Or we want too much (a girl out of our league) and have desires that exceed our capacities.

So it's not a matter of "we failed to break into cliques early". We are just different types of people. We seek something more. Or we live for new and different experiences.

Or we want to be treated like rockstars from women. lol And refuse to settle for anything less.

That's why the posts here are of high intelligent freethinking quality, cause we all think for ourselves are not natural followers.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Jackal » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:54 am

Winston wrote:So it's not a matter of "we failed to break into cliques early". We are just different types of people. We seek something more. Or we live for new and different experiences.

I think it's also a matter of looking at the effort-to-reward ratio. We don't naturally fit in in the US and in order to fit in in US, we would have to put in a ton of effort just in order to succeed a tiny bit (because this fake American culture is not natural for us). Whereas overseas in a country which is a better fit for our personalities, we can expend the same amount of effort or less, but get much more results in return.

Why spend your life in a desert if you're good at swimming?

Also, I think even "very American" people put in such a huge effort to fit in in America. Maybe this is an extension of the workaholic culture of America or maybe this is a matter of capitalism being applied to patriotism ("survival of the most American").

I think so many Americans are scared to death of not fitting in. It seems insane to me that one should have to put in so much effort just to accomplish basic things in one's home country. Life should be easier.

I think this is also one reason why Americans frequently say that their number one fear is public speaking (not death!). If you are standing up and talking front of an American audience, you are being judged every second, and since socializing is such a bloodsport in America, if you make a few mistakes, you'll be ostracized and ridiculed forever afterwards and could potentially lose most or all of your status which you've spent years of fearful, painstaking effort in order to accumulate. It's like trying to walk across a tightrope which is suspended over a river of flesh-eating piranhas: one mistake and you're done for.

Successful Americans naturally act American because of their childhood conditioning; they are extremely careful about what they do or say in front of other people; and they use massive amounts of lies and deception to hide their mistakes and to make their strengths appear greater than they are (i.e. nobody's perfect, so they have to at least convincingly pretend that they are perfect).
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Postby Adama » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:21 pm

Winston wrote:
BellaRuth wrote:
J.Adama wrote: I also remember saying one time during another one of those dormitory events that I wash my hair with regular hand/body soap (a bar of soap), rather than shampoo. The collective stares of disgust and the "eww" from women was shocking.


I'm sorry, what? Men use shampoo?

Haha, all the men I know are more than happy using soap to wash their hair, or shower gel. This surprised me. Do American men usually use conditioner too?


Are you serious? Have you tried using a bar of soap to wash your hair? It leaves your hair brittle, coarse, not soft or smooth, and hard to comb. Not good at all. Have you tried it?

Shower gel is a little better, but a regular bar of soap?! Most Brit men do that? Why? Their hair looks normal and groomed.


Now BellaRuth has her answer. I had no clue. I am not a hair guy. I am more European. It doesnt matter to me. I'm male.
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Postby Adama » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:29 pm

Jackal wrote:I don't think it's always a matter of belonging to a clique, but it's a matter of learning a role and playing it to perfection.

For example, if you are playing the role of a rich preppy kid and you move to a new town where you don't know anybody, you have seek out the other rich preppy kids in the area and make a powerful and flawless first impression so that they immediately see that you are "one of them" or are even better at playing the role (dress better, say wittier things, are richer, etc.) than they are.

It's like prison: you either kick someone's ass the first day (make a good first impression) or become someone's bitch (become a social outcast).

I think my problem and the problem of many of the guys on sites like this was that we didn't want to be any of the pre-made roles which American society had created. We wanted to be free from such limiting stupidity. We wanted to think outside the box and see reality clearly instead of living inside a constant neurotic charade.

This of course leads to the problem of not being any girl's "type." Most American girls need the implicit approval of society and the media before they can find a man acceptable. Simply thinking on her own and evaluating a man objectively based on his words and actions is not what the typical American woman does. That would be a frightening step into the unknown for her. It's much more comfortable for girls to quickly assign labels to people: "Oh, he's a jock. He's a computer nerd. He's a hippie. etc." Unfortunately, their default label for men for whom they cannot find a suitable pre-made label is "loser."

J.Adama wrote:Yup. I remember when I was living in a dorm and some of the women were friendly with me. Not flirtatious, but friendly.

There was a campus concert event that I went to by myself. I didnt care if I was alone or not. This is when I was a freshman. She say me there and asked me why I was alone.

From then on out when I saw her in the common area of the dorm she was very cold and refused to engage me in conversation.

This is a perfect example. Clearly the girl thought that you were a potentially decent guy because she was surprised that you were alone.

However, in America, life is like politics. When a politician goes out to have a hamburger, he's never just "going out for a hamburger." He's extremely careful about the impression he makes and the image he casts. Unfortunately, even ordinary people have to be so paranoid in America because your peers may be watching and if they detect any "un-American" or "loser-like" behavior, they will make your life miserable.

America has no need for secret police because almost every individual US citizen has been conditioned to instinctively act like the society's secret police who enforce the repressive social codes of conduct and who are always watching. And in some cases, fellow Americans will even threaten you with violence if they feel your behavior or opinions have become too unusual.



There's something else though. Making someone an outcast allows for people to increase their own status.

If you feel you can push someone out of the group and make them an outcast, then you must somehow be above them. You are better because you can keep them out. Those people you pushed out are flawed. You are better than them.

Making others outcasts automatically increases your own status. So people start looking for opportunities to make others outcasts, especially those who dont fit the mold.

In particular the people with the lowest self esteem are the ones who go about hunting for people to ostracize the most. They are the ones who barely fit in themselves, just the others are too afraid of them to kick them out of the "in-group."

In other words, the act of ostracizing others itself is a way to gain social status. It also serves a dual purpose for those who are naturally full of hate.

I think many men can outgrow this by the time they are 25 or so. Whereas most women will be stuck in this social construct nonsense forever, even in their retirement homes there will be cliques of cool people and those untouchables.
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Postby Jackal » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:25 pm

J.Adama wrote:In other words, the act of ostracizing others itself is a way to gain social status. It also serves a dual purpose for those who are naturally full of hate.

Yeah, I agree, and sometimes people gain social status by simply harassing other people to show their dominance without ostracizing them. Not ostracizing the person they like to pick on keeps that person around for them to push around regularly to display their dominance to their peers who are watching.

I notice that in Europe people don't simply harrass someone who they feel is weak and then say, "Oh come on dude, I was just messing with you." You don't start shit here unless you're serious. People certainly tease each other occasionally here, but to me at least, it doesn't seem as mean-spirited. In America, being rude to people who don't retaliate seems to be a status symbol.
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Postby gmm567 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:43 am

I totally agree with adama, we are losers because other people can exclude us from their groups. They do this because it elevates their status. Hence in Europe , there are no jocks, nerds, stoners cliques in high school--there is much more self acceptance and acceptance.
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Postby ladislav » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:11 pm

gmm567 wrote:I totally agree with adama, we are losers because other people can exclude us from their groups. They do this because it elevates their status. Hence in Europe , there are no jocks, nerds, stoners cliques in high school--there is much more self acceptance and acceptance.


There are also few fraternities. If any. You just meet people and make friends. And street gangs do not require an initiation process.
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