The Big Social Catch-22 in America

[Adama]

Three words, my friend: f**k American women.

Metaphorically only! LOL

Definitely not literally. That would be a legal and emotional minefield.

[polya]

It's much worse than we think... the fact is in America men are not wanted, needed, valued or respected. Women gravitate to their female friends, - especially attractive, wealthy & young women as they have all the power today. Certainly, other men won't help, support or be friendly with each other so single average men are almost inevitable alone because women & other men shun them.
At least women help & support other women, while men treat other men like dogs (outside of sport).
Then the fact that the media always blames the outcast, saying they are not positive enough, not successful, not thin, not educated... (you can always be MORE positive, more beautiful - so its never going to be met).
Unless men stand up to feminism, they will keep losing rights until they are slaves to feminist women & to the Govt, see what Cato the eldar said about women: "Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." - This has happened in western Countries!!

[BellaRuth]

Yeah it's BS. Women are much more "programmed" by society and TV than those genes. I mean that too. If women were meant to be attracted to such a narrow spectrum of manhood, then the human race would never have gotten off the ground. The whole theory is B.S. Pure nonsense. Nice try at an excuse for their choices though.

I was giving my genuine thoughts which I still think make sense, not trying to offer excuses to anyone. I did actually study biology in this area, not at any high level, but I'm really interested in it and not just talking out my arse. Genes are very powerful, actually- we've been dictated to by genes for for well over 99% of our evolutionary history at least compared to how long we have been spent watching TV. They have to make an impact.

When I think of 'bad boys' I do think of the tattooed type. Perhaps we're talking about different things.

I understand you (J Adama) think the UK and America are 'just the same' in terms of women, which I can't comment on as I've never been there, but you must accept our culture and society is still very different, despite increasing Americanisation. Our TV programmes are very different indeed and so perhaps this is why I could be talking about something else entirely.

The only American show I've seen, probably in quite a few years, is Glee.

No clue what a 'wigga' is or what a 'fake bad boy' could be, for instance. I was thinking of real 'tough guy' thugs that women sometimes go for- the guy at gym with loads of muscles and tattoos, that kind of thing.

As for the women being attracted to a 'tiny spectrum of manhood', I wasn't really saying that, but in an era of nice chaps who wouldn't hurt a fly, maybe the rough one stands out and grabs attention with his strength. Likewise in an era of rough men, the nice guy would stand out and draw attention to his potential for protection/providing skills.

Men aren't attracted to all women either, you realise. They just go for whoever fits the bill closest for them too.

[Winston]

Interesting response to this thread:

"Many of these attitudes come from upper class "Victorian" England where it was not even proper for strangers to talk to one another until they were "Properly Introduced".

The Pennsylvania Dutch and Amish people still refer to all American white people outside their culture as "The English".

Many people do meet and find spouses in America, almost always through some circle, church, military, university, club referral of family or friends, or last resort the bar. LOL Rarely by striking up individual conversation which is considered kind of 'tacky'.

Anything sexual is still viewed as kind of 'naughty' in America, either forbidden by church or groups, or done anyway, but still admittedly 'naughty' lol

People who are individualists, eccentrics, or otherwise do not fit into some group like the above, of course then do find it hard to meet people.

Andrew"

[The_Adventurer]

I think culture plays a huge part in it, much more so than biology, and these cultural trends do change. In Japan, nerds are the "in thing" now. Hot girls are intentionally going for shy nerds who work in high tech. This is a media driven trend. In Korea, girls go for what my friend calls the "gay type", basically the pretty boy who almost looks like a girl. The guys at the gym said girls are not into muscle at all, except for older women. This is also reflected in the media. Look at the popular stars in Korean dramas or in boy bands. My bodybuilding friends almost all date foreign, white girls from from Spain, Russia or other parts of Europe, not America.

[Linc4Love]

Many people do meet and find spouses in America, almost always through some circle, church, military, university, club referral of family or friends, or last resort the bar. LOL Rarely by striking up individual conversation which is considered kind of 'tacky'.

People who are individualists, eccentrics, or otherwise do not fit into some group like the above, of course then do find it hard to meet people.

This right here.

I'm an introvert so I just don't well in social circles, neither am I a bar hopper or a party man. I have no church, no family and only one best friend who lives about 1300 miles away. My only means of meeting women have to be done by joining social groups that revolve around a particular interest (like things you might find on Meetup.com) I'm not sure why it is, but I never seem to click with others in these groups. People don't seem to mind my company, but sooner or later it always starts to feel like high school to me. Any girl I meet is already married, seeing someone or just doesn't have any interest in me, which I don't mind so much, but the attitude grates on my nerve. If you're not interested that's fine, just be polite about it. There's no need to be such a stuckup pissy bitch because some guy dared to pollute your existence. I'm amazed that women would be offended that a man might show interest in them, especially when he's polite about it.

That leaves random encounters, yeah right. You ever get maced before? That's what you have to look forward to.

Without a social construct, and because meeting women randomly is looked on with such disgust, what else is there?

[jamesbond]

Without a social construct, and because meeting women randomly is looked on with such disgust, what else is there?

Well my friend, in America the only ways to meet people are through your friends, or at bars, nightclubs and parties. Good luck with trying to pick up girls at bars or clubs (with the loud music, the bitchy women and the fact that most of the time at bars & clubs the men outnumber the women).

You can always ask your friends if they have any single female friends that they can introduce you to. If they don't have anyone for you, well you can try and make new friends and then ask your new friends if they have anybody they can introduce you to.

Your other option is to go overseas, where you can actually walk up to women at bookstores and shopping malls and start conversations with them and then ask them for their number. These foreign women are MUCH more approachable and friendly then American women.

America has absolutely the worst dating scene in the world for men! Why the media doesn't cover this is absolutely criminal.

[Shokkers]

Something that flies in the face of that: there are 'bad boys' that don't seem like they could protect a dead skunk...for example, Tommy Lee of Motley Crue.
He apparently can fight (men or women), the 27 tattoos indicate he can take some pain, BUT at first glance--not knowing he was a rock drummer--most chicks would say "Who let the heroin addict in here?" He seems to be under 100 pounds. Yet, he's married both Heather Locklear and Pamela Anderson.

Marilyn Manson also cultivated a satanic 'bad boy' persona, and I'd bet that anyone on this forum could beat up that bony freak. But he still nailed Rose McGowan.

Bear in mind, though, that you can re-invent yourself in whatever manner to attract or seduce women, but you ought to think past the sex. When Rock musicians get married, the first thing their wives do is get pregnant as fast as possible. Then they make the musician buy the most expensive house they can find. Then...well, three guesses.

[Rock]

Yeah it's BS. Women are much more "programmed" by society and TV than those genes. I mean that too. If women were meant to be attracted to such a narrow spectrum of manhood, then the human race would never have gotten off the ground. The whole theory is B.S. Pure nonsense. Nice try at an excuse for their choices though.

I was giving my genuine thoughts which I still think make sense, not trying to offer excuses to anyone. I did actually study biology in this area, not at any high level, but I'm really interested in it and not just talking out my arse. Genes are very powerful, actually- we've been dictated to by genes for for well over 99% of our evolutionary history at least compared to how long we have been spent watching TV. They have to make an impact.

When I think of 'bad boys' I do think of the tattooed type. Perhaps we're talking about different things.

I understand you (J Adama) think the UK and America are 'just the same' in terms of women, which I can't comment on as I've never been there, but you must accept our culture and society is still very different, despite increasing Americanisation. Our TV programmes are very different indeed and so perhaps this is why I could be talking about something else entirely.

The only American show I've seen, probably in quite a few years, is Glee.

No clue what a 'wigga' is or what a 'fake bad boy' could be, for instance. I was thinking of real 'tough guy' thugs that women sometimes go for- the guy at gym with loads of muscles and tattoos, that kind of thing.

As for the women being attracted to a 'tiny spectrum of manhood', I wasn't really saying that, but in an era of nice chaps who wouldn't hurt a fly, maybe the rough one stands out and grabs attention with his strength. Likewise in an era of rough men, the nice guy would stand out and draw attention to his potential for protection/providing skills.

Men aren't attracted to all women either, you realise. They just go for whoever fits the bill closest for them too.

Bella. Wiggas, for the most part, are stupid ass white guys who try to act hip hop black. Fake bad boys are lame posers who may talk good but can't walk the walk. Youth values in so much of America are all twisted. And the shit is being exported via global media. Prison sub-cultures have broken into the mainstream. Enticing but very self-destructive. I consider it a social cancer.

I'm sure guys who pull-off a credible 'thug look' w/tattoos or the right type of muscles attract a lot of girls. Just their look can preempt a lot of trouble giving the girl a feeling of being protected. Just remember, some of them are still just posers.

If you ever watched "Goodfellas" there's a part where the a neighbor harasses the young apprentice gangster's girl. As soon as she tells him about the incident, he walks straight over to the guy's driveway and in front of all his crew, beats and pistol whips him to near death and warns the group that if he or any of them so much as look her way again, they are dead. After this scene, I remember the girl saying something along the lines of getting sexually excited by his protective actions.

That part of the movie made sense to me. My guess is the perfect 'bad boy' is one who treats his girl with intense love but demands complete loyalty and respect in return, never lets her cross the boundaries which he sets, and is completely confident and capable of handling all external problems and threats with an iron fist.