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I thought italians were supposed to be womanizing machos hehehehe
so yesterday I went to ikea to buy some crap and while waiting to pay what do I hear? a nasal american accent coming from some white female standing in front of me.....
(picture your typical middle class britney spears without make up look alike AKA suburban white american chick, wearing a pony tail, skinny because she's probably obsessed with her weight and runs 5 miles everyday to stay thin, and a gap sweater)
she was bossing her italian husband around.... telling him..... For god's sake how many times do i have to tell you things????? and the italian mangina with his pathetic gel ridden hair and thick italian accent would reply to her bitchiness with "amma sorry baby..."
the dude looked like your typical eurofag italian, tons of gels, a goatee, dark hair, pale, brown eyes, and better dressed than she was, she looked very american in fact (you can take the bitch outta gap stores, but you cant take gap outta the bitch)..... he obviously thought he had hit the jackpot when he met miss america, little he knew he would end up marrying just another spoiled, demanding, american bitch from hell.... and she probably at the beginning of the relationship thought she had found his european prince in a white horse and probably showed him off to her american white females friends back home who would crave for another one like him with that accent and that european romantic je ne sais quoi ohhh!!!
in the lapse of five minutes that it took for them to pay for their things, she bashed him loudly about 4 times.... the worst was when she was about to pay because she had the money and he tried to ask her something and she put her index finger pretty right in front on his face like telling him to f**k off because she was busy and he was not allowed to talk....
she would roll her eyes at him because he did something, or reply with in a cocky way, WHAT! when he would ask her something.... yet to the pakistani cashier the american bitch would smile and say "oh my God that's nice thank you SO MUUUCH!!!!" and then look at her man with a "you're shit" look
my friend next to me also observed the whole scene and afterwards told me that the italian man is the typical western mangina brainwashed into PC correctness, the type of moron that has never been outside of the western world and still buys into the media when they present white western skanks as the ultimate and only standard of beauty out there.... the typical white western fag that wants to marry an anorexic bitch that looks like angelina jolie or paris hilton and live a lifestyle of the middle class young couple living in a small apartment, eating organic food and with an adopted baby in order to help solve the planet's hunger problem way of life.
on the other hand, she is your typical western skank, thinking she deserves to be on a pedestal because her whole life the rednecks and black thugs back in colorado, kansas or iowa or north carolina or wherever the f**k she hails from in the states, put her in a pedestal for being skinny and blonde.... eventhough she has no redeeming quality about her..... and going beyond the fact she's skinny and blonde, she's pretty much another potential future suburban unattractive fat soccer mom.
she dogged him out and you could see in this guido's eyes desperation and perhaps a sense of "i f***ed up"
it reminded me of my ex-wife.....
thank God I am currently involved to a colombian girl who not only loves me, but believes she's being empowered by taking charge of her household and not letting me spend money so we can save and thinks that cooking for her man a good meal makes her desirable!!!
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the problem lies with american women being used to having white american men kiss their asses shamelessly, especially white and asian ones think they're entitled to the world.... they assume men all over the world are the same as the manginas back in the states and that the combination of "exotic" asian features plus an american passport and a nasal loud english, or the combo of white american woman speaking english loudly is gonna be absolutely irresistible to men worldwide.
little they know as soon as they leave the US their market value drops considerably!!!
my girlfriend is from colombia and in colombia men actually joke about "gringas" being fat, having no ass, lacking feminity and looking like men at times.... however in the mind of the american white women i've seen in colombia they're absolutely irresistible to the local colombian men because they're white and they curse and they're loud so they gets attention because they're so real....
this is why it's so common to see bitter bitchy lonely american expat women overseas.... because as soon as reality sets in they realize no foreign man wants her unless that man is a push over mangina from some americanized place like germany or the uk or some place like that and the alpha males who do want them is to f uck them once or twice and then move on as soon as the novelty of banging an american skank wears out.
this asian american chick, probably went to europe expecting people to roll a red carpet for her, and since asians are not as common as they are in the states, she probably though european men were gonna fight over her, like the white losers back in the states do...... reality sets in and she becomes bitchy, bitter, resentful and wanting to go back home (to the US)
ive seen it in colombia.... american women who get there thinking they'll get a sex symbol status because of their fake blonde hair, and soon realize they're just another fat gringa wearing manly cloths and much less feminine than the local colombianas..... this pisses them off and then comes the colombia sucks, i wanna go back home rants!!
american men on the other hand go overseas and women see them as good providers, much slimmer than american women, much more manly and respectful than local men, so you get the opposite reaction, women pretty fighting over (ive seen in europe and colombia)
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True they are not macho that's only in America (Hey Rocko!), they are syrupy cockblockers like Euro says, that is my experience. Read some of the threads about Italian men going to Moldova...
italian men are annoying as f**k..... I live in europe and here most women see them as a joke, you know they take the fabio/sweet lover factor to the max, wearing tons of gel, tanned as crap, with earrings or ridiculous extravagant cloths that dont even look good on a man and an attitude of a moron that cant control himself because he sees a p***y.
they make for perfect carpet husbands, and i think they are a bad combination when paired up with the american bitch from hell because the american bitch dwells on being alpha and a bitch, and the italian man offers no resistance, making the american bitch frustrated in the long run.
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I'm Italian and I avoid Italian guys when I go abroad, especially Southern Italians of the Guido variety. I engage only in selected cases. Otherwise I just pretend I don't even speak the same language, or else whey glom onto you like carapaces and want to roam the town like a pack of oversexed wolves, which leads to exactly nowhere.
I think it's great that women learned to avoid them. Unfortunately they also give "normal" guys like me a bad rap.
So yes, plenty of stereotypes here, but sadly 80% true. For all the swagger most Italians become docile, passive husbands pretty fast, although the mangina of the OP is a rare exaggeration.
I'm Italian too and honestly don't think all Italian young men are that needy, even when the girl is foreign and perceived as having higher value. The Guido variety of Italian may not be loved by other men and even many women, but still ranks pretty high in the sexual stereotypes held by foreign ladies.
I used to be quite successful in my leftwing intellectual persona when I was in Italy, then as I moved to London the same behaviour would get me good results with OK-looking, smart girls met in more relaxed settings, like a one on one date or a small house party, but not with random girls met in a club or large party. My personality wouldn't allow me to act as the overconfident, noisy and pushy Italian many foreign girls have in mind, at least not unless I was particularly euphoric or plain drunk. I do remember quite well though that the hottest girls were systematically pulled by the good looking Italian who couldn't even speak decent Italian, let alone English, yet had the guts to approach them with their infectious smiles and touchy-feely body language. Half of them would get rid of them after 5 minutes, but the other half would happily buy them and take them for a snog, or more.
About Italians becoming passive husbands, please consider that it's also a matter of intelligence and couple/family harmony. A single guy on a dating rampage wouldn't probably think twice about addressing a behaviour he doesn't like in a woman. With a long term girlfriend, wife or mother of your children, the stakes are higher, so many men tend to be more cautious when venting their frustration or putting up an argument. To a reasonable extent, this is not called being a mangina, it's called wanting a peaceful relationship. The better women also do the same, with all the limits of their hormone swings.
I usually have an infallible method when my wife (a Colombian) wants to take me to shopping or Ikea. I always go with her, always. Then I put up an excuse - I need to check out that electronic shop or need to make that important (series of) phonecalls - and give her a place to meet two or three hours later. I always calculate at least a 30 minutes delay on her side - there's also something else to check out, or a shop she didn't know about on her way to the meeting point. Luckily we haven't got to the point where I have to bargain a shopping day for sex on that night.
Funny you say that, because most of them behave like that exactly to maximise their chances with the women their prefer, or perhaps those they can have. Again, I don't share the opinion that Italian young men are usually beta husbands. It depends on a lot of factors. Some of them like foreign girls from relatively more traditional backgrounds, like Asia or Latin America, precisely so they have an easier way exercising their dominant personality.
Look, I'm not like that, and yet especially during my 20's, I used to envy those kinds of guys because they would score a lot in environments where I couldn't do much else than dance and loiter cocktail in hand.
(First off: Hey. )
Of course it's not universally hated. It's just that, in my experience, those types don't pull much. I've seen women actively avoiding them. The women I've been or talked with almost always criticized them harshly for not even letting them walk down the street in peace, and were in fact kind of surprised that I was nothing like them. In Ukraine, for some reason, they mistook me for French quite often. The possibility that not all Italians were like that didnâ€™t even cross their minds, understandably so.
So if it ranks high, it must rank high with certain kinds of women and in certain kinds of environment.
They fare well in environments where that kind of style is considered the norm, but Iâ€™ve never seen that kind of approach work outside those environments.
Then, of course, a case could be made that a Guido has confidence, resilience, doesnâ€™t care about failure (so he can bounce off 100 women without breaking a sweat), and heâ€™s flashy, in short he acts like the oft-mentioned â€œalpha maleâ€ (regardless of his actual standing), which works if you frame it as a numbers game.
Regardless of the success they're having (or not), the point is that they give us a bad rap. I just don't like to be associated with that stereotype. It doesnâ€™t represent me in the least and it cramps my style.
(Oh, and I donâ€™t think theyâ€™re bad guys. Most mean well. Theyâ€™re open and inclusive. The problem is that theyâ€™re often misguided.)
That's fine, but first of all we have a very specific venue where 1) It's more likely you'll find girls of a certain temperament and inclination 2) It's more likely they'll be at the very least tipsy, if not sloshed out of their t!ts 3) It's more likely they won't care about the outcome, in the long term. I mean, theyâ€™re there to have fun. An intellectual guy would just be a wallflower or a wet blanket or both.
In short, it's the environment. At a gala party he would just cut a terrible figure and be escorted out.
(Butâ€¦ probably the snotty, cute girls there would still be intrigued by him, while feigning indignation. This I must concede.)
Itâ€™s a very fine line. Iâ€™ve observed many relationships in my lifetime, and inevitably in the more stable relationships the male was dominant. Not necessarily make-me-a-sandwich dominant, although Iâ€™ve seen plenty of those, simply put there was a largely egalitarian relationship, with the two of them naturally falling into the roles that they felt more agreeable to their respective skills and temperaments, and the boyfriend/husband was the final authority in most decisions and gave an overall, stable sense of direction. There was neither power struggle nor nagging, and an external observer would think things were decided by consensus. Power was exercised only when necessary. On the other end, relationships where women called the shots were almost always all over the place.
Again, my observation. Reality may vary.
The point is that wanting a peaceful relationship is a slippery slope. Men donâ€™t crave drama like women, so I understand we tend to make concessions to keep the peace. And that's our weak spot. But concession after concession, the woman (who likes to test things out once in a while to assess relational dynamics) gets away with increasingly more abusive behavior, until you become the typical man confined to a tiny room while the woman takes possession of the entire house, at her beck and call because nodding your head and saying "yes dear" is more bearable than continous nagging, and becomes resentful and unhappy and nasty because you let her. (â€œWhy donâ€™t you grow some balls?!â€ )
So I just believe in setting clear power boundaries early and often, for the benefit of both.
Italian men tend to be passive husbands, in my opinion, because more often than not they retain the strategies they used with their moms. Italian men often leave only when they marry, so they literally jump from one family to another. They're used to submitting to a female authority figure well into adulthood, so unless their family is quite traditional, they unconsciously accept the idea. But of course that doesn't explain why passivity seems to be a universal trait of a lot of marriages and relatioships, Italian or not. Perhaps the Alpha/Beta thing, but I'm still studying up.
Oh, manâ€¦ shopping with women. Brrr. Glad you found a way to make it bearable!
Ciao Welcome to this happy place.
Willing or nilling, the Guidos have been part and parcel of the Italian folklore for centuries.
If a young Italiano is good looking, fit, tanned, and cannot be bothered to read much else than their motorbike instruction manual, he's not making a mistake leveraging all he has to offer and targeting those kinds of women who will buy that approach wholesale. Of course it is an overestimation, if not a plain mistake, of them to assume that all women they approach will like what they see. It's true that those types are known for their resiliency in the face of rejection. It's also true that, at least by my experience, many of them like playing dumb when all the social situation requires is a confident, nonchalant attitude and a lot of body language, which is typical of a big summer party or a noisy club.
In short, I don't feel like criticising those beach bodies for what they do. I like to see them as teaching us intellectual shysters a lesson on two on confidence, resilience and adaptation spirit.
I have seen a lot of dominant males in relationships. For how open minded I am, I tend to be dominant in most situations. One of the things Monica hates the most about me is how vocal (and often shouty) I am when I don't like something she did, or didn't do, and screwed up. She often puts up ironical protests about me not being easily bent to her will, "you don't do what I want", she says. I usually laugh and answer with an ironic remark on my past as an anarchist. It's always a bitter pill to swallow for a girl, when her man can't be tamed. We're used to it now. Truth be told, I try to balance things a bit by giving in to some of her caprices from time to time. Love does involve a certain give and take, right?
Funny you say Italian men are passive husbands because of their moms. I would say the exact opposite is true, at least in the South where I come from. Italian traditional Moms like to spoil their sons rotten, which helps turning them into extremely picky when it comes to choosing a long term partners. True, those who for one reason or another turn out pussy-starved or score less than their hormones demand them to, end up making dangerous compromises with their long term love lives. Yet the backdrop is set.
My Mom has an absolute dominant personality, especially compared to my Dad's, yet she would be the most submissive, accommodating person ever with me and my brother. Since we were the boys in the family, not only my Mom but my aunties and even my female cousins would spoil us. I think this is the typical case for a traditional Italian family. And on this I agree: once the son jumps from his parental family to his role as long-term boyfriend or husband, he expects to be spoiled to the same insane levels. Most women, Italian or not, don't like this too much. It takes one with a pretty traditional outlook on male/female roles and a good degree of patience. Is it a coincidence that my longest relationships were with a Japanese girl and my current wife, a Colombian?
Last edited by publicduende on October 24th, 2012, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.