Hey AIM.... Do you need social circle game in Mexico?

[Jester]

Interesting stuff on this thread

viewtopic.php?p=102714#102714

but I have an off-topic question... hence this new thread...

In the United States, that is the only way to meet women; first you have to have a friend introduce you to her (since American women are not open to being met any other way).

It isn't like that here in Mexico where you can meet ten women a night very easily (since women here are open to meeting new people).

This is so true! In America, the only way to meet women is through your friends. Women in the US are not open to meeting guys in random places like bookstores and grocery stores. You need to be introduced to a woman by a mutal friend the two of you know.

I like what you say about Mexico, it sounds like you can easily meet women there. Women in Mexico sound like they are very open to meeting guys in public places like bookstores, grocery stores, etc.

I have noticed that mexican women here in the US tend to be very friendly and open. I can only imagine how friendly and open they are in Mexico.

Don't want to argue with somone like AIM who has been there done that, but I felt a lot of suspicion from Mexican women in Tijuana in groceries, tiendas, hotels, stores. Didn't get the smiles etc. It seemed that even well away from tourist area, they assumed I was a sex tourist.

Ensenada, further into Baja, seemed friendlier both times I was there. But my solo time there was only abot a day.

I would have to say a major concern of mine about Mexico (or Guatemala) is precisely the difficulty of meeting girls without a social circle. So I have been thinking it will take me time to get somewhere (outside the gringos).....

AIM, what are some strategies you've found? Bookstores and groceries - really???

I am very flexible on location, was thinking of Guanajuato for climate, lifestyle, etc, but if a bigger city like Guadalajara would work better for out-of-age-group dating, I would try it.

If I go down there it sure won't be to date gringas or viejas!!

[Falcon]

For any country, meeting people is always easier, and more comfortable, with social circles.

- Get to know Latinos in the U.S., and their visit their hometowns. Your social circle will be vast, since they tend to have huge extended families.
- Make some really good male friends in Mexico. They are incredibly easy to make friends with. In fact, I usually spend much more time talking to men than to women in Mexico. Again, this is your way into a social circle.
- Indigenous people on the streets are easy to approach and get to know, at least for a young Asian guy like me. Honestly, I'm not sure if they would less open around older white guys.
- Food/taco stands and restaurants are great places to get to know people. Mexicans often say "buen provecho" to others when dining at restaurants. Get to know the staff and fellow diners.

I felt a lot of suspicion from Mexican women in Tijuana in groceries, tiendas, hotels, stores. Didn't get the smiles etc. It seemed that even well away from tourist area, they assumed I was a sex tourist.

I'll be honest here - your instincts are right. Mexicans have this thing against older white guys, due to centuries of anti-American sentiment. As a "chino," I'm exempt from that. I get to make fun of "gabachos" along with them. So make sure you mention your Armenian ("Armenio") heritage, and when asked what that is, say it's Eastern European or Middle Eastern, whichever you like better (I know the Caucasus is in this fuzzy zone). To Mexicans, a European is a "guero" (white / blonde), but not a "gabacho" (basically 'ugly American'). They never referred to my Russian friend as a "gabacho," and they were certainly more receptive with him than with white Anglo friends that I had brought along. AmericanInMexico, though, is a really different breed, and I would bet he's got a far more Mexican than American vibe.


That's why before AmericanInMexico and I came along, almost all of the HA threads on Mexico were basically saying that Mexico is NOT a good place. We've got threads such as:

- Why isn't Mexico a hot destination to find a wife/gf?
- Dating A Hot Mexican Girl Is Not Easy

This is why Colombia is a far more popular destination than Mexico, for older Anglo guys.

[AmericanInMexico]

This is a really complicated topic with many factors involved, and I will attempt to address both Jester and Falcon in this reply.

To start off with, Tijuana truly is the worst place in Mexico to look for a woman; I have been to Tijuana and found it to be ruined by all the Americans. Ignore Tijuana completely. Completely.

Now, moving on to the rest of the questions. Social circles are important in Mexico but at the same time not the end-all be-all to finding women. Women are very approachable in Mexico and I have made many friends in Mexico simply by going up to women in stores in the mall or just random stores in the streets. As an example, just last week I went to a random meat shop I had never been to before and struck up a conversation with all of the workers, both male and female. We exchanged phone numbers as if it was nothing, whereas Americans would be too suspicious to exchange phone numbers that quickly. As a different example, when I first arrived to Mexico so many years ago I met my first social circle by walking into a random shoe store asking for directions in my then-horrible Spanish; they took an instant liking to me since I was an American making an attempt at speaking Spanish and I still talk to them to this day.

My favorite story though was a day later going to the movie theater and there was a group of girls around my age hanging out there (I was 20 at the time), I asked them for a good movie recommendation and they paid for my ticket to see the movie with them! We then drove around in their car for a few hours afterwards and exchanged phone numbers and I thought to myself "this NEVER happened in the United States". I still speak to those same girls 7 years later and we still talk about that day at the movies as if it were only yesterday.

I later began to visit other parts of the country and found that women almost everywhere were approachable, but I quickly learned the racial dynamic which is definitely there but not spoken. I found that for the most part, mestiza women were not interested in me as a white man (but still were interested in me as a friend), but strangely both white women and indigenous women were. However, this interest in me took two very different forms. The indigenous women all seemed to want to get with me just so they could show off that they had a white man. When I went on a trip to a coastal town in Oaxaca which was predominantly indigenous (I will tell you which one in PM's if you want) I could not go anywhere without a whole bunch of girls surrounding me demanding to know my phone number and how long I would be in the area. These girls put American women to shame too; almost all of them were wearing skirts or dresses and behaved in a very feminine manner.

The white girls however were still interested in me but in a different way; it was more of a "you seem very nice and I'd like to get to know you better" kind of way, but not a "let me show you off to my friends" mentality like with the indigenous girls. I think that interest was spurred by being the same race but being from a different country and having a different native language; in addition, the fact that I speak fluent French got them very interested too.

One thing that has definitely helped me a lot in Mexico is being Catholic (although evangelism is growing in the country). Whenever I have been asked my religion and I reply "Catholic" it's almost like I bridged a gap in a way, because many Mexicans have this image of all Americans being Protestant and there being no Catholics in the United States. I don't know what religion you are, but one thing you definitely don't want to be in Mexico is an atheist. If you're a Protestant, don't worry too much since evangelism has grown in the country and almost everywhere you go you are bound to find evangelists.

As for race, that is a very complex issue (I keep saying things are very complex, but Falcon will tell you that Mexico is a very complex country, probably more than the United States). I am white, but like Falcon said, I like to emphasize that I'm a French/Polish-American and therefore not your "stereotypical" Anglo white person. The fact that I speak fluent French also gives me bonus points since they start associating me with French people rather than Americans. The best question would be what race of Mexican woman are you after. If you want a white woman, then you will have to go to different states and cities than if you wanted a mestiza or an indigenous woman. If you're into black women, there are also plenty of Afro-Mexican communities along the Costa Chica (a coastal area in Guerrero and Oaxaca states).

I don't know how old you are but your experience will probably be a bit different from mine because I'm 27; I met my fiancee when I was 25 and still young enough to associate with the university crowd. If you are in your 40s or older though, you will most likely be relegated to dating single mothers, since a childless woman in her 30s or older is almost unheard of in Mexico. When it comes to age differences, Mexico is more liberal than the United States but a lot less liberal than places like the Philippines; you can date a woman 10 years younger than you with no problem, but 20 years younger isn't going to happen unless there is a lot of money involved. At the same time, no one cares if you date a woman 10 years younger; it's considered normal for the man to be several years older than the woman.

I've been to Guanajuato and my recommendation is don't go unless you are both Catholic and looking for a woman in your age range. Guanajuato is the most conservative state in all of Mexico and the people there are fiercely Catholic. It has a nice climate and beautiful scenery, as well as beautiful women of course; but they will expect a serious relationship and you will almost have to live there full-time to date a woman from there. If you prefer dating a woman significantly younger, I can give you locations to go to in PM's depending on whether you want a white woman, an indigenous woman, or a black woman (once again, mestiza women are achievable but for some reason not as interested in white men).

Also, as Falcon will tell you as well, learning Spanish is a must. 90% of Mexican women will not speak English to you even if they know it. There are some who will speak English to you but do not count on it. Learning Spanish is very important.

[AmericanInMexico]

One other comment...drop the word "game" from your vocabulary if you plan on going to Mexico. Following gaming tactics is a surefire way to end up lonely in Mexico; women in Mexico do not appreciate "cocky but funny" behavior and certainly do not appreciate a man insulting her to try to get her more interested. Be funny but without being cocky or rude.

[fschmidt]

Tijuana may not be optimal, but it is very convenient for someone living in Southern California and it is still infinitely better than anywhere in America. I went there some time ago to see my dentist and I met someone from loveshy.com there to see if I could get him some dates. We bought a local cellphone and put ads in the newspapers and this got some dates. The Americans are concentrated in the tourist area (Revolucion) and outside that there are hardly any. So we did approach women to talk and that also worked fine. If I was single and lived in Southern California, what I would do is to figure out how to get local Tijuana number that forwards to America. Then I would put ads in the Tijuana newspapers and use that to arrange dates for weekends. Of course you need to know Spanish. I believe this method would result in dates every weekend.

[Jester]

I'm grateful to all you guys for giving me the straight lowdown. The overall impression, frankly - and sadly - is that maybe I need to go to the Phil's. Mexico would be much easier for lots of reasons.

Fschmidt, thanks, and hats off to you for going the extra mile for your pal.

Falcon, you're right about the "Armenio Approcah", it works well with the immigrants I know up here. (I feel I can get away with more!)

AIM, a lot to chew on there.

I'm looking for someone thirty or more years younger, not ten or twenty. I've had it with single moms. Works for them, not me.

And I had been thinking that the Mestizas were probably the "sweet spot" for me, but it's true I have noticed the same thing now that you mention it. They are the ones I see as "shy" or "reserved". Indigenous body type doesn't work for me, so that leaves White. I've met the upper class preppies but I'm pretty sure that they stick close to their own age range. So from my limted knowledge that might leave only the French girls in Jalisco (?)

I'll chew on this a bit before bothering you by PM.

***

FWIW, I am a very conservative, very religious Catholic, though not all in accord with the Vatican. I'm also Pentecostal, but don't hang with them, but I have attended and joined their congregations as well. Don't go to church much these days, though I might if I had a family and I thought it did my family some good. I like the Cristero history of Jalisco etc. My grandfather was like them. (And some before him as well of course.)

I won't do another legal marriage, though I wold possibly do one "off the books", unrecorded, in front of family, if everything else was right - if I absolutely had to.

But OTOH, I'm not interested in sleeping with anyone new unless it is indeed with the expectation of a lifelong relationship, marriage in fact if not in name.

[Falcon]

Mexico is a very racially conscious society, but in a way that is quite different from the U.S. So your racial and ethnic background WILL play a huge factor, but not as big as your Spanish skills, which will be #1.

The interest (this is NOT the same as friendliness and approachability) I get, in order from most to least:
(1) Mestizas
(2) Indigenous
(3) Whites

For AIM, it's completely turned around. And I still do get considerable interest from white Mexican women, but just not nearly as much as from the mestizas and indigenous women. In fact, white Mexicans are often even more approachable, extroverted, and friendly than the more reserved indigenous Mexicans, and are easier to become instantly good friends with. The thing is whether or not they see me as bf/hubby material.

Jester, you've said that you don't speak much Spanish. I would say that's the main factor. Many Mexicans are not comfortable around people who speak little Spanish.

But it is indeed much easier to meet authentic friends on Mexican streets, than on American streets.

Social circles are important in Mexico but at the same time not the end-all be-all to finding women. Women are very approachable in Mexico and I have made many friends in Mexico simply by going up to women in stores in the mall or just random stores in the streets.

I met my gf in Michoacan without any social circles whatsoever. I was in a rural village in the forested highlands of northern Michoacan, and didn't know anyone there. I was taking pictures with my camera, and she approached me with some random question about camera batteries. It really was just an excuse to get to talk to me, since she showed obvious signs of being genuinely interested in me. So that's how it all started.

Now, I don't think the PUA industry is ever going to teach anyone "camera battery" pickup lines.

[Jester]

your Spanish skills, which will be #1.... you've said that you don't speak much Spanish. I would say that's the main factor.

Right now I can make myself understood, but that's all. Never studied Spanish, but from learning a couple of sales blurbs in spanish, and from talking to gf's mother, I now speak more than I do Russian, for example, which I studied decades ago but I've mostly forgotten. So I pick up languages pretty easily. Spanish is a barrier to overcome, but not insurmountable. I'm not going to bother doing an immersion course unless I know what continent I am going to. Classes are cheaper on site anyway, and so is rent. Internet courses are everywhere, of course, but if I liked doing things alone sitting alone at home, I would be happy in the U.S., and I wouldn't be leaving!

I was taking pictures with my camera, and she approached me with some random question about camera batteries. It really was just an excuse to get to talk to me, since she showed obvious signs of being genuinely interest to me. So that's how it all started.

Now, I don't think the PUA industry is ever going to teach anyone "camera battery" pickup lines.

Btw there are a couple of other nuances to "camera game", remind me to teach you sometime!

[The_Hero_of_Men]

For any country, meeting people is always easier, and more comfortable, with social circles.

- Get to know Latinos in the U.S., and their visit their hometowns. Your social circle will be vast, since they tend to have huge extended families.
- Make some really good male friends in Mexico. They are incredibly easy to make friends with. In fact, I usually spend much more time talking to men than to women in Mexico. Again, this is your way into a social circle.
- Indigenous people on the streets are easy to approach and get to know, at least for a young Asian guy like me. Honestly, I'm not sure if they would less open around older white guys.
- Food/taco stands and restaurants are great places to get to know people. Mexicans often say "buen provecho" to others when dining at restaurants. Get to know the staff and fellow diners.

I felt a lot of suspicion from Mexican women in Tijuana in groceries, tiendas, hotels, stores. Didn't get the smiles etc. It seemed that even well away from tourist area, they assumed I was a sex tourist.

I'll be honest here - your instincts are right. Mexicans have this thing against older white guys, due to centuries of anti-American sentiment. As a "chino," I'm exempt from that. I get to make fun of "gabachos" along with them. So make sure you mention your Armenian ("Armenio") heritage, and when asked what that is, say it's Eastern European or Middle Eastern, whichever you like better (I know the Caucasus is in this fuzzy zone). To Mexicans, a European is a "guero" (white / blonde), but not a "gabacho" (basically 'ugly American'). They never referred to my Russian friend as a "gabacho," and they were certainly more receptive with him than with white Anglo friends that I had brought along. AmericanInMexico, though, is a really different breed, and I would bet he's got a far more Mexican than American vibe.


That's why before AmericanInMexico and I came along, almost all of the HA threads on Mexico were basically saying that Mexico is NOT a good place. We've got threads such as:

- Why isn't Mexico a hot destination to find a wife/gf?
- Dating A Hot Mexican Girl Is Not Easy

This is why Colombia is a far more popular destination than Mexico, for older Anglo guys.

In that vein, are black guys viewed with any such suspicion and/or contempt?

[Falcon]

Yes, black men are sometimes viewed with suspicion or contempt, but often they're not. I would say that black guys seem to do best with the mestizas.

Oaxaca and Guerrero have large Afro-Mexican populations.

[Dragon]

Now, I don't think the PUA industry is ever going to teach anyone "camera battery" pickup lines.

"Hey baby, is that a Double A Lithium-Ion in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

[All_That_Is_Man]

I'm hesitant about visiting Mexico. Although Latina women happen to be my third favorite race of women (top favorite being a tough tie between white women and Asian women), my experience with Latina women (Americanized ones) has been horrendous. Latina women have been among the most anti-black-man group of people that I have ever met in America (or online). I'm thinking, how could it be any different in their home country?? Keep in mind, some of the anti-black-man bullshit that I've faced were from older Latina women too who were virtually fresh of the boat (FOB), and this occurred within Mexican-style neighborhoods for the most part. Americanization doesn't happen that fast. There is some kind of deep-seeded hatred that is brought here from Mexico and not learned in America. My advice is to build social circles with Latino males - these guys rarely if ever have a stick up their a$$ against black males like their women do. It will be a learning experience.

[royaldude]

allthat is man sadly mexico is pretty racist. if your black stick to the largest cities and even there you will get shit for being black. mexicans even mestizos see themselves as european and have really negative opinions of blacks. but in my experience black guys were probably just as hated in peru. if i were black i would head to dominican republic or brazil.

i can only speak for white guys as i am white but finding women here is not dificult. your best bet is to walk around the city your in, if you get attention from a girl go for it. at night time they are often in groups and social circles so that can make it difficult to penetrate. however ive sat a tables or at the bar alone and had women come up to me. you need to speak spanish or at least ok spanish and it helps if you tell them you are living there.

if you want just sex the hookup culture is probably the most advanced in latin america. pasionliberal, adultfriendfinder, or just posting hey im an american living/visting in X city and you should find takers. if i were black this might be the best way to get laid as you are a niche fetish here. mexico city is very liberal as its one of the only places where abortion and gay marriage are allowed so keep that in mind.