How can you tell if she's going to be a nightmare?

[Johnny1975]

I've read a few horror stories about women who were / seemed great to begin with, but then further down the line (including but not limited to after having kids or getting married or living together), they changed, in a negative way. Or their true colours came out.

What are the signs? How can you tell if she's going to be a nightmare years down the line?

There must be signs. Does anyone know? Does anyone have any links to this kind of information?

I know that people naturally change a bit over time or due to circumstances etc, and that's fine, that can be dealt with. But what I'd like to be able to do is avoid deception.

[Dragon]

I've read a few horror stories about women who were / seemed great to begin with, but then further down the line (including but not limited to after having kids or getting married or living together), they changed, in a negative way. Or their true colours came out.

What are the signs? How can you tell if she's going to be a nightmare years down the line?

There must be signs. Does anyone know? Does anyone have any links to this kind of information?

I know that people naturally change a bit over time or due to circumstances etc, and that's fine, that can be dealt with. But what I'd like to be able to do is avoid deception.

This isn't too difficult to determine with a little bit of common sense and some technical (science) education. You essentially have to find a good quality girl from the start. It's something guys don't think about because they were never taught how to find a good partner. This will take time. These rules apply to domestic and foreign women:

1. Does she know how to clean, cook, and take care of herself? If not, it's definitely a deal breaker.

2. The most important thing is does she have an intact family? Are her parents still together? If yes, that's a good sign. If not, it's not always a deal breaker but you have to look into why they are seperated and you can't always believe what they tell you.

3. Is her household clean? Does she and her family take care of their homes? A messy/disorganized house is troubling.

4. Observe how they interact as a family. Especially observe her mother. Remember that when you marry a girl, you also marry their family. A lot of guys don't understand this.

5. Do little tricks like leave money around her in the beginning of your relationship and see if she takes it without asking you.

6. Although this is a "trick" it is important enough to have it's own section. When you give her a gift/present, make sure it's practical. Yes, I'm telling you to give her a vacuum cleaner, pots/pans, or any other practical gift that can be used. No luxury/symbolic items like jewelry. Why do you do this? To see how she reacts. If she reacts negatively, it's a deal breaker. Why? Because she's not practically minded. There's a lot of traditional/practical women that would kill for a nice set of pots/pans. Women who expect gifts to be expensive/luxurious aren't the ones you want.

7. If possible, investigate their family history for mental illness. A huge component of mental illness is genetics. You don't want your wife and future children tainted with the crazy.

8. This is the most controversial but...make sure you stay in shape and maintain a forward lifestyle. I may write an essay on this and post it later. A lot of guys don't understand that relationships is a two-way street. When you all of a sudden find your loving wife of many years not be so loving anymore, there's a reason and it's not always her fault. Know that there's plenty of instances I have read where women who were initially attracted to their men because they were financially successful, charming, confident, strong, and ambitious lose interest later and cheat because their husbands became fat, lazy, static, and beta. "Settling down" for men should never mean settling down themselves as an individual. Keep continuing to improve yourself as a person. Be healthy, make lots of money, and improve your socioeconomic status. If men expect their wives to be pretty for a long time, the same should be expected of husbands to stay in shape and be ambitious. This is something that the famous Athol Kay preaches about.

[Ginger]

I've read a few horror stories about women who were / seemed great to begin with, but then further down the line (including but not limited to after having kids or getting married or living together), they changed, in a negative way. Or their true colours came out.

What are the signs? How can you tell if she's going to be a nightmare years down the line?

There must be signs. Does anyone know? Does anyone have any links to this kind of information?

I know that people naturally change a bit over time or due to circumstances etc, and that's fine, that can be dealt with. But what I'd like to be able to do is avoid deception.

This isn't too difficult to determine with a little bit of common sense and some technical (science) education. You essentially have to find a good quality girl from the start. It's something guys don't think about because they were never taught how to find a good partner. This will take time. These rules apply to domestic and foreign women:

1. Does she know how to clean, cook, and take care of herself? If not, it's definitely a deal breaker.

2. The most important thing is does she have an intact family? Are her parents still together? If yes, that's a good sign. If not, it's not always a deal breaker but you have to look into why they are seperated and you can't always believe what they tell you.

3. Is her household clean? Does she and her family take care of their homes? A messy/disorganized house is troubling.

4. Observe how they interact as a family. Especially observe her mother. Remember that when you marry a girl, you also marry their family. A lot of guys don't understand this.

5. Do little tricks like leave money around her in the beginning of your relationship and see if she takes it without asking you.

6. Although this is a "trick" it is important enough to have it's own section. When you give her a gift/present, make sure it's practical. Yes, I'm telling you to give her a vacuum cleaner, pots/pans, or any other practical gift that can be used. No luxury/symbolic items like jewelry. Why do you do this? To see how she reacts. If she reacts negatively, it's a deal breaker. Why? Because she's not practically minded. There's a lot of traditional/practical women that would kill for a nice set of pots/pans. Women who expect gifts to be expensive/luxurious aren't the ones you want.

7. If possible, investigate their family history for mental illness. A huge component of mental illness is genetics. You don't want your wife and future children tainted with the crazy.

8. This is the most controversial but...make sure you stay in shape and maintain a forward lifestyle. I may write an essay on this and post it later. A lot of guys don't understand that relationships is a two-way street. When you all of a sudden find your loving wife of many years not be so loving anymore, there's a reason and it's not always her fault. Know that there's plenty of instances I have read where women who were initially attracted to their men because they were financially successful, charming, confident, strong, and ambitious lose interest later and cheat because their husbands became fat, lazy, static, and beta. "Settling down" for men should never mean settling down themselves as an individual. Keep continuing to improve yourself as a person. Be healthy, make lots of money, and improve your socioeconomic status. If men expect their wives to be pretty for a long time, the same should be expected of husbands to stay in shape and be ambitious. This is something that the famous Athol Kay preaches about.

+1

Especially to number 8 (which lots are ironically not aware of lol).

[Johnny1975]

Dragon, you're right. When are guys (or anybody, for that matter) taught about what qualities to look for?Practically never. Any advice that is usually given is vague, or doesn't cover everything.

I've been working on a huge list of qualities and standards of behaviour that I'd look for. It's absolutely massive. If you saw it in its entireity you'd think I'm crazy for having literally hundreds of things on my list. But if you were to read through it, I'm sure you'd find that practically all of it almost essential. The reason why it's so huge is because for every quality I've included its (negative) opposite, and also, I've used many alternative words and phrases to describe each quality (and it's negative opposite), as well as various scenarios that illustrate the quality. So really, it boils down to much less than it would seem at first. The reason why I've gone into such detail is because from a practical point of view, when you're assessing a girl, you might skim over something without thinking too much about it or assume that she ticks that box (maybe out of wishful thinking or a subconscious desire to disregard it). By going into detail, it forces me to think properly about each one.

Most guys just go for women who are quite attractive, give them the time of day, and seem alright. That's just not good enough. Hence my meticulous checklist of standards.

I've read through your list, and I think I have at least the spirit of everything yuou say included in my list, although I may have to tweak it a bit to cover some of the things you mention a bit more explicitly.



Without going into super detail, my list covers the following (each one has subsections etc) :

Psychological stability
Character, honour, integrity

I believe that everything else that follows comes from or is influenced byu the above two.

Composure
Conscience, accountability
Control, superiority
Friendly, likeable
Gracious, plays fair
Easy to get along with
Honesty, trust
Humility
Independence
Inner strength
Level headed, sensible
Loving, generous, respectful
Loyal, makes an effort (to make things work)
Self esteem, positive, happy
Feminine
Interesting, depth
Humour, fun, playfulness
Pride, dignity, class / self respect
Attractiveness
Sex (attitude, etc etc etc etc etc)

For each one of those, there are many more things that stem from them. So I think I pretty much have everything covered.

I'm still working on it as I say, but I have to ask myself : Even with this list, and even if I was to constantly assess a woman (even after years and years), is it still possible for her to be so clever as to fool me? I hate to think so, because I truly believe that women aren't that clever (no offense, women), it's just that men are naive, and we don't get to be that picky due to limited opportunities, so we tend to settle and blind ourselves to their faults and flaws. So I think that whwnwver a guy gets fooled, it's more down to his lack of discernment and honesty with himself than any super cleverness on the woman's part.

I'm looking for reassurance on that last point. Do you think that with such a list, and with constant scrutiny, that's enough to avoid being fooled? What about if she seems great but turns out to be rotten and you don't find out until years later? I like to think that's almost impossible, but is there anything I'm missing?

If she manages to give the right impression, but she's destined to turn out to be rotten (maybe after kids / marriage / moving in / any other events or milestones etc), are there any early signs?

Do you think that a guy who married / had kids with / moved in with a woman who turned out to be rotten would have benefited from a list like mine?

[Ginger]

Dragon, you're right. When are guys (or anybody, for that matter) taught about what qualities to look for?Practically never. Any advice that is usually given is vague, or doesn't cover everything.

I've been working on a huge list of qualities and standards of behaviour that I'd look for. It's absolutely massive. If you saw it in its entireity you'd think I'm crazy for having literally hundreds of things on my list. But if you were to read through it, I'm sure you'd find that practically all of it almost essential. The reason why it's so huge is because for every quality I've included its (negative) opposite, and also, I've used many alternative words and phrases to describe each quality (and it's negative opposite), as well as various scenarios that illustrate the quality. So really, it boils down to much less than it would seem at first. The reason why I've gone into such detail is because from a practical point of view, when you're assessing a girl, you might skim over something without thinking too much about it or assume that she ticks that box (maybe out of wishful thinking or a subconscious desire to disregard it). By going into detail, it forces me to think properly about each one.

Most guys just go for women who are quite attractive, give them the time of day, and seem alright. That's just not good enough. Hence my meticulous checklist of standards.

I've read through your list, and I think I have at least the spirit of everything yuou say included in my list, although I may have to tweak it a bit to cover some of the things you mention a bit more explicitly.



Without going into super detail, my list covers the following (each one has subsections etc) :

Psychological stability
Character, honour, integrity

I believe that everything else that follows comes from or is influenced byu the above two.

Composure
Conscience, accountability
Control, superiority
Friendly, likeable
Gracious, plays fair
Easy to get along with
Honesty, trust
Humility
Independence
Inner strength
Level headed, sensible
Loving, generous, respectful
Loyal, makes an effort (to make things work)
Self esteem, positive, happy
Feminine
Interesting, depth
Humour, fun, playfulness
Pride, dignity, class / self respect
Attractiveness
Sex (attitude, etc etc etc etc etc)

For each one of those, there are many more things that stem from them. So I think I pretty much have everything covered.

I'm still working on it as I say, but I have to ask myself : Even with this list, and even if I was to constantly assess a woman (even after years and years), is it still possible for her to be so clever as to fool me? I hate to think so, because I truly believe that women aren't that clever (no offense, women), it's just that men are naive, and we don't get to be that picky due to limited opportunities, so we tend to settle and blind ourselves to their faults and flaws. So I think that whwnwver a guy gets fooled, it's more down to his lack of discernment and honesty with himself than any super cleverness on the woman's part.

I'm looking for reassurance on that last point. Do you think that with such a list, and with constant scrutiny, that's enough to avoid being fooled? What about if she seems great but turns out to be rotten and you don't find out until years later? I like to think that's almost impossible, but is there anything I'm missing?

If she manages to give the right impression, but she's destined to turn out to be rotten (maybe after kids / marriage / moving in / any other events or milestones etc), are there any early signs?

Do you think that a guy who married / had kids with / moved in with a woman who turned out to be rotten would have benefited from a list like mine?

Find someone with values same as yours and who have the character and integrity to honor it down the line. Same advice goes for both men and women if they are looking for someone longterm/life partner material. The only assurance you'll ever have is based on how confident you are of your own judgment.

[marklambo]

Everyone had some great replies but let me simply add to this.

First thing to check for:

Is she an American woman?
If the answer is yes, there's a 60-80% chance that she will be a nightmare even after she does all the great things in the beginning as mentioned above.

[Johnny1975]

Everyone had some great replies but let me simply add to this.

First thing to check for:

Is she an American woman?
If the answer is yes, there's a 60-80% chance that she will be a nightmare even after she does all the great things in the beginning as mentioned above.

I think it would take an evil genius to comply with the stuff on my list (remember, the list itself it extremely detailed, more than I've mentioned). And seriously, as f***ed up and as devious as some of them are, I really don't think it would be possible for most to achieve it. I know that women can put on an act, even very long term, but if she's being scutinised all the time, ruthlessly, and tested, it wouldn't be easy, even more so if she has no idea that she's being scrutinised. I just don't think hardly anybody would be that clever. As I say, it takes ignorance / being naive to make the other person seem clever. With such a list and a ruthless approach, I think it's practically airtight. I just don't think women are that clever, it's naive men who make it seem that way.

Yes, I'm looking for reassurance.

[ryanx]

I believe in something called 'stress testing' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_testing

But you have to stress test her character right at the beginning (to minimize time and energy wasted). Don't wait for things to happen naturally, which could take a long time, create simulated test conditions at the start.

Someone mentioned buying practical gifts and observing her reactions. Have an argument with her and see how she approaches you afterwards, is she sweet and forgiving and wants your love again or mean and stubborn and gets into a contest of wills with you. There many of these little tests. Let me know if you want more. Have to rush off.

[Dragon]

Dragon, you're right. When are guys (or anybody, for that matter) taught about what qualities to look for?Practically never. Any advice that is usually given is vague, or doesn't cover everything.

I've been working on a huge list of qualities and standards of behaviour that I'd look for. It's absolutely massive. If you saw it in its entireity you'd think I'm crazy for having literally hundreds of things on my list. But if you were to read through it, I'm sure you'd find that practically all of it almost essential. The reason why it's so huge is because for every quality I've included its (negative) opposite, and also, I've used many alternative words and phrases to describe each quality (and it's negative opposite), as well as various scenarios that illustrate the quality. So really, it boils down to much less than it would seem at first. The reason why I've gone into such detail is because from a practical point of view, when you're assessing a girl, you might skim over something without thinking too much about it or assume that she ticks that box (maybe out of wishful thinking or a subconscious desire to disregard it). By going into detail, it forces me to think properly about each one.

Most guys just go for women who are quite attractive, give them the time of day, and seem alright. That's just not good enough. Hence my meticulous checklist of standards.

I've read through your list, and I think I have at least the spirit of everything yuou say included in my list, although I may have to tweak it a bit to cover some of the things you mention a bit more explicitly.



Without going into super detail, my list covers the following (each one has subsections etc) :

Psychological stability
Character, honour, integrity

I believe that everything else that follows comes from or is influenced byu the above two.

Composure
Conscience, accountability
Control, superiority
Friendly, likeable
Gracious, plays fair
Easy to get along with
Honesty, trust
Humility
Independence
Inner strength
Level headed, sensible
Loving, generous, respectful
Loyal, makes an effort (to make things work)
Self esteem, positive, happy
Feminine
Interesting, depth
Humour, fun, playfulness
Pride, dignity, class / self respect
Attractiveness
Sex (attitude, etc etc etc etc etc)

For each one of those, there are many more things that stem from them. So I think I pretty much have everything covered.

I'm still working on it as I say, but I have to ask myself : Even with this list, and even if I was to constantly assess a woman (even after years and years), is it still possible for her to be so clever as to fool me? I hate to think so, because I truly believe that women aren't that clever (no offense, women), it's just that men are naive, and we don't get to be that picky due to limited opportunities, so we tend to settle and blind ourselves to their faults and flaws. So I think that whwnwver a guy gets fooled, it's more down to his lack of discernment and honesty with himself than any super cleverness on the woman's part.

I'm looking for reassurance on that last point. Do you think that with such a list, and with constant scrutiny, that's enough to avoid being fooled? What about if she seems great but turns out to be rotten and you don't find out until years later? I like to think that's almost impossible, but is there anything I'm missing?

If she manages to give the right impression, but she's destined to turn out to be rotten (maybe after kids / marriage / moving in / any other events or milestones etc), are there any early signs?

Do you think that a guy who married / had kids with / moved in with a woman who turned out to be rotten would have benefited from a list like mine?

Ooooo...I understand the situation now. You're lucky I'm the perfect person to talk to. Time for some harsh words then.

I think in order to be happily married, you need to be happy with yourself. This includes an understanding of the type of person you are.

You, my friend, are what I like to call the "over-analyzing" type. This type of person likes to collect information, plan/think carefully, and takes a long time before coming to a decision. This is why I call them the over-analyzing types. Too much thinking and not enough doing. It's common among "deep" introverts. I used to be the over-analyzing type.

The thing about this type of person is that they HATE it when things go wrong. "If I execute my plan, I must have all the information necessary and my parameters must be perfect." Sound familiar? Coincidentally, the over-analyzing types are very risk-aversive. They don't like to take risks and gamble.

The thing about guys like this is that they have above average intelligence, which theoretically equips them to have better judgement in picking a mate. But it actually works against them. They over think. They get caught up in too much illusion/cynicism. Too much thinking about the "what if?" and not enough doing. What they lack is wisdom that comes with life experiences and taking risks.

You are worried that somewhere down the line, your gf/wife will betray you in some way, so you're asking for the best preventative measures. You don't want to risk getting into a committed relationship and years later down the line it ends up screwing you over. The thing you have to understand is that there are no assurances in love or life. The best thing you can do is risk management, meaning deciding the least harmful path. The advice I gave earlier should raise the mathematical probability in getting a quality girl but even then, nothing is guaranteed. Again I iterate, there are no assurances or guarantees in life.

You could very well end up getting hurt and heartbroken. Your friends/family could also betray in someway down the line. You may get fired from your job. Your house could accidentally burn down and you could lose everything. There is nothing you can do about these things. The only thing you can control is how you feel and adapt to the situation. You can wallow in depression and shut yourself in or move on and rebuild. You need to mix in the good with the bad. It is the process of maturing.

Making this ridiculous personality list and paranoia over future betrayal indicates that you are not really ready for a committed relationship anytime soon. What you need to do is dive into the black waters and risk getting hurt. Take a trip to the PH or Thailand. Meet lots of girls. Experience the joy of getting scammed/being treated as wallet. Get your feelings mashed. But also enjoy the good times. You will not mature without doing such things.

[xiongmao]

Nice post Dragon.

On #8, that's the reason my sister's husband lost her to another man. If you get fat and lazy you're asking for trouble, unless you marry a woman who's also fat and lazy.

Love is a risk though. What you'll find though (especially in Asia) is that risky women are just so much more fun to be with than boring reliable girls. Well I've got my eye on a very hot Cantonese girl and I'm gonna stick my head in the fire and try to meet her! I know how this will turn out, but it's sure gonna be fun.

[Ginger]

Dragon, you're right. When are guys (or anybody, for that matter) taught about what qualities to look for?Practically never. Any advice that is usually given is vague, or doesn't cover everything.

I've been working on a huge list of qualities and standards of behaviour that I'd look for. It's absolutely massive. If you saw it in its entireity you'd think I'm crazy for having literally hundreds of things on my list. But if you were to read through it, I'm sure you'd find that practically all of it almost essential. The reason why it's so huge is because for every quality I've included its (negative) opposite, and also, I've used many alternative words and phrases to describe each quality (and it's negative opposite), as well as various scenarios that illustrate the quality. So really, it boils down to much less than it would seem at first. The reason why I've gone into such detail is because from a practical point of view, when you're assessing a girl, you might skim over something without thinking too much about it or assume that she ticks that box (maybe out of wishful thinking or a subconscious desire to disregard it). By going into detail, it forces me to think properly about each one.

Most guys just go for women who are quite attractive, give them the time of day, and seem alright. That's just not good enough. Hence my meticulous checklist of standards.

I've read through your list, and I think I have at least the spirit of everything yuou say included in my list, although I may have to tweak it a bit to cover some of the things you mention a bit more explicitly.



Without going into super detail, my list covers the following (each one has subsections etc) :

Psychological stability
Character, honour, integrity

I believe that everything else that follows comes from or is influenced byu the above two.

Composure
Conscience, accountability
Control, superiority
Friendly, likeable
Gracious, plays fair
Easy to get along with
Honesty, trust
Humility
Independence
Inner strength
Level headed, sensible
Loving, generous, respectful
Loyal, makes an effort (to make things work)
Self esteem, positive, happy
Feminine
Interesting, depth
Humour, fun, playfulness
Pride, dignity, class / self respect
Attractiveness
Sex (attitude, etc etc etc etc etc)

For each one of those, there are many more things that stem from them. So I think I pretty much have everything covered.

I'm still working on it as I say, but I have to ask myself : Even with this list, and even if I was to constantly assess a woman (even after years and years), is it still possible for her to be so clever as to fool me? I hate to think so, because I truly believe that women aren't that clever (no offense, women), it's just that men are naive, and we don't get to be that picky due to limited opportunities, so we tend to settle and blind ourselves to their faults and flaws. So I think that whwnwver a guy gets fooled, it's more down to his lack of discernment and honesty with himself than any super cleverness on the woman's part.

I'm looking for reassurance on that last point. Do you think that with such a list, and with constant scrutiny, that's enough to avoid being fooled? What about if she seems great but turns out to be rotten and you don't find out until years later? I like to think that's almost impossible, but is there anything I'm missing?

If she manages to give the right impression, but she's destined to turn out to be rotten (maybe after kids / marriage / moving in / any other events or milestones etc), are there any early signs?

Do you think that a guy who married / had kids with / moved in with a woman who turned out to be rotten would have benefited from a list like mine?

Ooooo...I understand the situation now. You're lucky I'm the perfect person to talk to. Time for some harsh words then.

I think in order to be happily married, you need to be happy with yourself. This includes an understanding of the type of person you are.

You, my friend, are what I like to call the "over-analyzing" type. This type of person likes to collect information, plan/think carefully, and takes a long time before coming to a decision. This is why I call them the over-analyzing types. Too much thinking and not enough doing. It's common among "deep" introverts. I used to be the over-analyzing type.

The thing about this type of person is that they HATE it when things go wrong. "If I execute my plan, I must have all the information necessary and my parameters must be perfect." Sound familiar? Coincidentally, the over-analyzing types are very risk-aversive. They don't like to take risks and gamble.

The thing about guys like this is that they have above average intelligence, which theoretically equips them to have better judgement in picking a mate. But it actually works against them. They over think. They get caught up in too much illusion/cynicism. Too much thinking about the "what if?" and not enough doing. What they lack is wisdom that comes with life experiences and taking risks.

You are worried that somewhere down the line, your gf/wife will betray you in some way, so you're asking for the best preventative measures. You don't want to risk getting into a committed relationship and years later down the line it ends up screwing you over. The thing you have to understand is that there are no assurances in love or life. The best thing you can do is risk management, meaning deciding the least harmful path. The advice I gave earlier should raise the mathematical probability in getting a quality girl but even then, nothing is guaranteed. Again I iterate, there are no assurances or guarantees in life.

You could very well end up getting hurt and heartbroken. Your friends/family could also betray in someway down the line. You may get fired from your job. Your house could accidentally burn down and you could lose everything. There is nothing you can do about these things. The only thing you can control is how you feel and adapt to the situation. You can wallow in depression and shut yourself in or move on and rebuild. You need to mix in the good with the bad. It is the process of maturing.

Making this ridiculous personality list and paranoia over future betrayal indicates that you are not really ready for a committed relationship anytime soon. What you need to do is dive into the black waters and risk getting hurt. Take a trip to the PH or Thailand. Meet lots of girls. Experience the joy of getting scammed/being treated as wallet. Get your feelings mashed. But also enjoy the good times. You will not mature without doing such things.

Listen to the dragon.

[sushiman]

The answers are already above, so no need to repeat.

But just to emphasize one thing, trust your instincts. You know deep down she's a piece of shit. Don't lie to yourself cause of her tits.

And you know deep down when she's a good one. But stress test her just to make sure.

[Insider]

I think in order to be happily married, you need to be happy with yourself. This includes an understanding of the type of person you are.

This is a very correct observation! To have a happy life be it with someone or on your own, one needs to be content with own self!
When you are in a relationship and something create a bad atmosphere, one starts to look for reasons in another person when in truth the reason is in both! Mostly, it works as this saying: you reap what you sow. If YOU are a loving man that doesn't put the gf/wife to the test and does NOT expect unfaithfulness from her on every step, then there is a good chance she is also going to be loving. One of the main rules for any relationship - it has to be natural. Nothing should be instigated or done against the will because once you start, there will be much awkwardness. And this direction doesn't lead to a happy life and marriage.

As for the woman not to become a nightmare, I'd say you need to choose her right and be very attentive in the process. While we date or go on meetings there are always what they call "red flags" and "green lights". Often we turn a blind eye as we like the looks so much that we ignore the red flags. Thats the mistake. If in the process of dating there are alot of things you don't like, chances are it becomes even worse over time. Thats what creates a nightmare in the future sometimes.

What you need to do is dive into the black waters and risk getting hurt. Take a trip to the PH or Thailand. Meet lots of girls. Experience the joy of getting scammed/being treated as wallet. Get your feelings mashed. But also enjoy the good times. You will not mature without doing such things]

Its very important in life to take risks but there is a fine line between being open to everything and being silly. Why consciously going to another country to be a wallet? With same, even better success you can go to other countries to date, but to a checked place, where you know that you will not be scammed. And who knows what can happen with the right environment and intentions

[Johnny1975]

I believe in something called 'stress testing' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_testing

But you have to stress test her character right at the beginning (to minimize time and energy wasted). Don't wait for things to happen naturally, which could take a long time, create simulated test conditions at the start.

Someone mentioned buying practical gifts and observing her reactions. Have an argument with her and see how she approaches you afterwards, is she sweet and forgiving and wants your love again or mean and stubborn and gets into a contest of wills with you. There many of these little tests. Let me know if you want more. Have to rush off.

Yes, more please. This is the kind of thing that I have in mind. It's all very well having a checklist, and a lot of things can be observed directly, but yes, you need tests.

[Johnny1975]

Dragon,

It's true. I do sometimes (although not always) analyse a lot. But seeing as there are so many horror stories out there, in this particular area I think it's worth being discerning and cautious. By the way, just to clarify, the idea of my checklist is simply to use it as a way of being clear and aware about who I'm dealing with. A woman wouldn't have to tick every single box and she wouldn't have to pass everything with flying colours. She wouldn't need to be perfect. For example, I don't like excessive argumentativeness (it's on the list somewhere), but if she has a habit of being a bit quarrelsome here and there, that's fine. In fact, it's the imperfections that make a person interesting. Other things, like honesty and trust, are more important and the standards would have to be a bit higher. The list is just a way to be honest about who I'm dealing with.

I know that nothing guaranteed, and I'm not trying to completely eliminate risk. I'm just trying to minmise it, that's all. I want to create a situation where if I get stung, it was because either I wasn't being honest (and the list takes away any excuse for that), or, she was an evil genius, in which case there's nothing that can be done. I just want to give myself the very best chance from the start, and avoid red flags as much as I reasonably can. I'd hate to think that I missed out on something and paid for it and all just because I didn't have a clear, conscious idea of what's acceptable and what's not.

Yes, you can control how you feel and adapt to situations, but you can also control whether or not you get involved with the wrong person in the first place.

Once again, the list is a guide, and I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I think it's very wise, and if I showed you the list in full, as long as you bear in mind that it's a work in progress and the result of a lot of brainstorming, when you break it down, it's very useful. You'd have a very hard time finding anything on it that would make you think "come on now, that's not really necessary". My standards aren't super high, they're reasonable and suitable to me. To be perfectly honest I could probably break it all down to maybe 25 things. Some obvious, some not so obvious. The rest is detail.

Am I paranoid? No. Just determined to not get stung. However, if it happens, it happens, but I don't want to be the fool who missed red flag after red flag because he was hypnotised by a pretty face.

Think about how many perfectly intelligent guys got involved with psychos, weirdos, and women with all kinds of behavioural defects, attitude problems, issues, the list goes on. And then they look back and kick themselves at how obvious it was, with hindsight. It's a minefield. And a minefield like that requires, at the very least, awareness, hence my list. It's not ridiculous, it's a potential lifesaver.

I'm sensing resistance to the idea of a guy being clued up and knowing what he wants and knowing what he shouldn't tolerate. Yes of course I have to be content with myself etc etc etc, but this thread is not about that. So why mention it?

Ironically you yourself gave me a list. Your list isn't ridiculous, it's very wise in fact, and I'm going to incorporate some of what you've said into mine. The difference between yours and mine though is that mine is very thorough and covers more (equally crucial) stuff. I'm actually spending day after day, week after week, month after month if necessary on it, because if I'm ever going to kick myself again, I don't want it to be out of ignorance. I'm just trying to do my best to minimise risk. Not eliminate, just minimise, that's all. It would be foolish to never want to take a risk, but it's also foolish to walk blindly without discernment. Both are foolish extremes.

I'd rather learn lessons by dodging visible bullets than learn them by being hit all the time (which can be very detrimental to one's morale over time). Even with such a list, there's still plenty of risk to be had, so why add more when it can be avoided? Parents teach their kids by telling them the mistakes they made, so that their kids can learn lessons without unnecessary pain. If they still go ahead and do stupid things, at least they'll have their parent's advice ringing in their ears, and the chances of them repeating stupid behaviour will hopefully be minimised. I'm trying to do the same thing to myself, but using common sense and advice that I read here and there from people with experience, as well as my own limited experience, but also my observations, not just of women but human nature in general.