Traveling for minority guys!

[mguy]

If you are white then this is not for you.

I'd like to build any ideas that one might have as a minority guy that is traveling. I think HA is home to many of these minority guys and we can basically agree that we have unique needs and tips that we need to consider when traveling abroad.

In the end, it would be nice to have a discussion that addresses the needs of a minority guy who is traveling abroad. Winston was revolutionary in this regard.

"As a minority, it is damn hard to make it in America and damn harder still to make it outside of America"

The part two is found here

http://minorityguysabroad.blogspot.com/ ... s-and.html

[Repatriate]

What sort of ideas do you have in mind?

This topic has been addressed a lot. I recommend you read Ladislav's old posts about going places where you are relatively appreciated and have high value as a traveler.

From what i've gathered from many years of reading about this stuff and hearing from a lot of other globe trotting asian guys I could narrow it down but it's hard to get a good grasp on what places are really good as opposed to just neutral unless you've personally been there.

This is my own compiled list of places where the general consensus amongst asian male travelers seems to be positive to neutral.

In no particular order

Positive to neutral countries:

Europe
--------
France
Austria
Belarus
Poland
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Latvia
Hungary
Serbia
Netherlands
Estonia

Negative countries:

Europe
--------
Germany
Russia
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Czech Republic
U.K. including Ireland
Ukraine

I left out quite a few european countries since I didn't read enough trip reports to formulate any kind of opinion one way or another. Winston and others might argue with me about Russia and Ukraine but let's be real here..it's 2013 and it's a very dangerous situation for any kind of non-slav looking traveler in those places. I'd say many Russian women might be friendly but the ethnic situation is volatile there and you roll the dice big time as a non-white.


Positive to neutral:

Latin/Central America
---------------
Mexico
Brazil
Colombia
Peru
Costa Rica

Negative:

Latin/Central America
------------------------
Argentina
Chile


Again I left out a lot of countries in Latin America because I didn't read many trip reports or online accounts from asians who have traveled in the others to form a consensus view.


I'm going to leave out Asia because I feel that it depends a lot on your ethnic subgroup and your general appearance. Japan and Korea are not all that hospitable to other asians if you're not ethnically from those countries. I do know of Asian-Americans who weren't Japanese or Korean who lived in both and managed to have a decent time living and working there while dating women but I think it's very dependent on cultural knowledge and individual circumstances.

I also left out most of the anglosphere since we all know it's probably the worst collection of countries to be an asian male.

I don't know about Africa..too few accounts but I heard the mainland Chinese are giving all asians a bad rep there.

I left out the gulf arab and the middle eastern group too. It's a volatile region and from what I know the rich arabs look down on asians and the poor ones are too caught up in their own regional and religious tension for it to be any kind of good place to travel to.

Don't know about central asian countries either. The -stans look like they would accept asian travelers fine but too little data on that to go from.

[mguy]

Ladislav had an awesome article about the hierarchy for ESL jobs, as a non-white person, you need to know that.

I think DJ also put some good arguments for ex-patting as the realm of the upper-class, but sk8board pretty much debunked it.

For minority guys, the biggest issue would be generating cash to fund their ventures, the cash problem I call it. From the internet most of the location-independents are mostly white, so there aren't many examples.

Winston is able to go around with this website and falcon is gallivanting in Thailand, so it can be done. But most minority guys that I know are from lower-to-lower-middle-class of the USA and are not exposed to a traveling culture or are not versed in the rules of global labor economics. Most of the companies abroad still prefer white employees.

In my time traveling, the ratio is probably 1 to 20 travelers in hostels is a minority guy. If the minority guy is into pickup his play will almost always be different -- information online is basically a big contradiction.

There's also a safety issue in some places for specific colors.

[AnonymousAmerican]

I think I need to be the pioneer for Mexican-Americans, since I am the only Mexican-American on this forum.

[ladislav]

Thailand is very welcoming and accepting of Asian ( Oriental) looking people based on my numerous observations. One condition though is that they will expect you to assimilate. Same I guess goes for the Philippines. If I were an Oriental looking dude, I'd go to Thailand in a heart beat.

Arabs/Turks do not look down on N/E Asian looking peoples- but who wants to go there to date? There is no dating there.

In Europe, Baltic countries and Finland are cool with N/E Asian guys based on what I have seen and heard.

As far as Russia and Ukraine, they often don't like anyone who does not look Slavic or Scandinavian because that is what they are. That includes people who have a Jewish look- they don't like it. On an individual level they are nice and friendly, but as a mass, not so.

In Latin America, the more mixed a country, the better. Colombia, Mexico, Panama, etc.

[mguy]

Thailand is very welcoming and accepting of Asian ( Oriental) looking people based on my numerous observations. One condition though is that they will expect you to assimilate. Same I guess goes for the Philippines. If I were an Oriental looking dude, I'd go to Thailand in a heart beat.

Arabs/Turks do not look down on N/E Asian looking peoples- but who wants to go there to date? There is no dating there.

In Europe, Baltic countries and Finland are cool with N/E Asian guys based on what I have seen and heard.

As far as Russia and Ukraine, they often don't like anyone who does not look Slavic or Scandinavian because that is what they are. That includes people who have a Jewish look- they don't like it. On an individual level they are nice and friendly, but as a mass, not so.

In Latin America, the more mixed a country, the better. Colombia, Mexico, Panama, etc.

I will confirm Thailand within year end. Falcon should chip in now. I have done Colombia and it gets a neutral review from me and I dont advise it to black men either, really asian looking dudes might do well.

[mguy]

I think I need to be the pioneer for Mexican-Americans, since I am the only Mexican-American on this forum.

We are already pioneers. Second generation Winston Wu's. Not many minority guys are into this whole traveling thing even if they have all the reason to leave America.

[AnonymousAmerican]

I think I need to be the pioneer for Mexican-Americans, since I am the only Mexican-American on this forum.

We are already pioneers. Second generation Winston Wu's. Not many minority guys are into this whole traveling thing even if they have all the reason to leave America.

most of the so-called "minorities" on this forum are asian-americans or blacks. I am the only Mexican-American who is active a lot on the forum. thing is, a lot of mexican-americans become ghetto losers (and they're winning in american society) or they manage to snatch some american or mexican girl, although not that good looking. I am one of those few mexican-americans who has thrown the towel on american women.

[mguy]

Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.

The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.

[Repatriate]

most of the so-called "minorities" on this forum are asian-americans or blacks. I am the only Mexican-American who is active a lot on the forum. thing is, a lot of mexican-americans become ghetto losers (and they're winning in american society) or they manage to snatch some american or mexican girl, although not that good looking. I am one of those few mexican-americans who has thrown the towel on american women.

I know of a couple Mexican-Americans who have been to Thailand and they did well there. One of them was a good friend from CA of a Thai-American friend of mine. He got attention in clubs and with the girls in the social circle and was generally thought of as a young farang guy. Thais generally aren't sophisticated enough to tell the difference between a European, a Mexican, or a Russian. What matters is personal appearance (and age) really. Well traveled Thais or Thais from the U.S. will certainly be cool with you since if they are Thai-American they probably grew up in CA around a ton of latinos.

The only issue is if you happen to be extremely dark skinned or you look indian or something then it might pose a bigger issue. If you're mestizo looking it's no prob.

For a Mexican-American i'd say that if you know Spanish you might kill in Eastern Europe or places like France. They love the latin/med. flavor there. That seems to be a pretty popular observation i've read about.

[AnonymousAmerican]

Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.

The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.

I have thrown the towel of trying to overcome in american society. I am only here until I can finish my degree here. once I do that, I am leaving the US and never coming back. in essence, I'll rather identify as Mexican than as an American because I lack any connection to american culture. only thing I have in connection is that the US is my birth country.

[mguy]

Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.

The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.

I have thrown the towel of trying to overcome in american society. I am only here until I can finish my degree here. once I do that, I am leaving the US and never coming back. in essence, I'll rather identify as Mexican than as an American because I lack any connection to american culture. only thing I have in connection is that the US is my birth country.

What will you be doing in Mexico in a professional capacity? One needs to earn a living unless one is loaded.

[AnonymousAmerican]

most of the so-called "minorities" on this forum are asian-americans or blacks. I am the only Mexican-American who is active a lot on the forum. thing is, a lot of mexican-americans become ghetto losers (and they're winning in american society) or they manage to snatch some american or mexican girl, although not that good looking. I am one of those few mexican-americans who has thrown the towel on american women.

I know of a couple Mexican-Americans who have been to Thailand and they did well there. One of them was a good friend from CA of a Thai-American friend of mine. He got attention in clubs and with the girls in the social circle and was generally thought of as a young farang guy. Thais generally aren't sophisticated enough to tell the difference between a European, a Mexican, or a Russian. What matters is personal appearance (and age) really. Well traveled Thais or Thais from the U.S. will certainly be cool with you since if they are Thai-American they probably grew up in CA around a ton of latinos.

The only issue is if you happen to be extremely dark skinned or you look indian or something then it might pose a bigger issue. If you're mestizo looking it's no prob.

For a Mexican-American i'd say that if you know Spanish you might kill in Eastern Europe or places like France. They love the latin/med. flavor there. That seems to be a pretty popular observation i've read about.

I don't want to go to east asia. I simply am not attracted to east asian women (and I actually look egyptian more than mexican).

and I know advanced spanish, as Spanish is my native language and I have to use spanish everyday because it's the only way I can talk to my family. I am actually wanting to go live in either spain, france, germany, a Balkan country, Israel, or Poland. I don't want to be in an english speaking country anymore.

[AnonymousAmerican]

Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.

The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.

I have thrown the towel of trying to overcome in american society. I am only here until I can finish my degree here. once I do that, I am leaving the US and never coming back. in essence, I'll rather identify as Mexican than as an American because I lack any connection to american culture. only thing I have in connection is that the US is my birth country.

What will you be doing in Mexico in a professional capacity? One needs to earn a living unless one is loaded.

I don't want to go to Mexico. I want to leave the new world and go to either a continental European country or Israel.

and I want to work as an engineer wherever I go, since that's my major.

[mguy]

Minority guys usually need to work to pay for their schooling or get scholarships (I did both).

If you are a minority guy still in college, it will pay to graduate and get couple of years experience in USA to get ahead. Or you can totally do the white thing and do volunteer abroad (just dont pay for it).

If you are mid-career minority guy, then your game will be different (and much much harder). Location independence like Mr. Wu right here is doable but you'd have to slug it out or earn a wage competing directly with Americans.

Older minority guys, 35 and above, I don't know how you guys do it, but I don't see you posting a gabillion articles on living abroad.

My advise is to first scope out your target country. Do not believe the hype saying this is good for this color skin or something like that. Work on your fundamentals first, you won't know unless you try. S