Would you rather be middle class in 2013 or peasant in 1813?

[Rock]

The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse
Gregg Easterbrook

That's a good point Falcon. You see a bigger picture than Rock and Repatriate do with their narrow left brained mentality. That's remarkable considering that you are a lot younger than them.

Perhaps the big question here is:

Are people who are spoiled with more things happier than poor people who are not spoiled?

Example: Are spoiled Americans who consume a lot, are snotty and uptight, easily annoyed and angry, and stressed out from work HAPPIER than poor Filipinos or Mexicans who don't have much but smile a lot for no reason, just for the heck of it?

It's hard to say. I'm not taking sides here, just saying that the issue is not that black and white as Rock and Repatriate make it out to be.

I'm not saying I prefer living in the 19th Century either. Just saying that it's not that black and white.

Well let me throw up another simple perspective which can actually be experienced. Go to a nice provincial area of Phils and find some nice families to visit. Watch how happy the people seem to be, especially the children even though they have almost nothing besides basic necessitates. I mean you really can meet a lot of people who seem genuinely happy in those places. Now if it gets to point where they can't eat, then things can change. But at that basic level of life with relative scarcity of modern conveniences and gadgets, people do seem pretty darn content in a lot of cases if not downright happy with life.

Now contrast to those caught up in the USA rat race. So many of the ones who are doing well in theory, making the big bucks, etc. seem pretty miserable or angry even though they may be very wealth or rich. Perhaps system in certain parts of Europe is better for mixing wealth and contentment but I still think there's a lot of lonely people there too.

However, the problem is, once you've gotten used to the bells and whistles of a typical developed world lifestyle, it's hard to adjust to living simply in the provinces of Phils I believe, at least for the likes of myself or Winston. Likewise, I believe it would be very hard to go back to the good-old days of 100 years ago and be content with that given what we are used to.

[Bane]

I can't believe not one person in the last three pages has mentioned this:


You cant just bring back traditional gender roles without bringing back segregation, racism etc. The open acceptance of liberalism that accepts minorities like ME into today's society is also what accepts feminism. Destroy the open liberal acceptance of all peoples and you can destroy feminism, but also destroy the lives of immigrants like me.[/quote]

Ummmm...... How do you figure that? Why CAN'T you have a society that accepts different races but not radical feminism? Your notion smacks of a kind of black and white thinking that is pretty severe even by HA standards. I'd love to hear your explanation on this.

[mrmillersd]

If you take away womens right's, whats stopping the majority from taking away black's rights?


The norm that all races are accepted today was TABOO back in the day. We are SO USED TO IT by now, just like feminism is the norm.


Society has become more toelerent overall. in 1813, people were much more violent towards other races. This tolerence is what accepts blacks, and what eventually accepeted women into equality. Tolerance for equality ALWAYS keeps increasing-you cant just move society to tolerence for minorities then stop it before people tolerate women as equals too...




ALso Winston-ROFL are you delusional? You think that a chinese man could be a banker in 1813? Chinese people couldnt get education back then, let alone hold jobs like banker/trader etc. ROFL. American women in 1813 would probably scream for help if they saw a alien mongoloid person....we would literally look like an alien to them.

First chinese that was allowed to graduate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yung_Wing

He was upper class top 1% from China too BTW....
Oh yeah, the US govt took away his citizenship later on throguh the naturalisation act (Anti Chinese) even though he was a Yale Grad, DKE memeber etc...even a top elite like him was at the mercy of racism





Also, I made it lower class in 1813 because it is easier than ever in 2013 to jump from low class to top 10-1%. In 1813, unless you went to a new england prep school and harvard, you couldnt be top 10%. Oh yeah, good luck getting into exeter without being a cabot/adams.

If you cant be top 5% in 2013 USA when it is achievable by merit, you have no chance in 1813 when class mobility was based on bloodlines. A Jewish person like Zuckerberg couldnt go from middle class to top .01% in less than a decade. A minority wouldnt even dare dream. How many Chinese Canderbilts are there? Chinese Carnagies?

[Repatriate]

I also look better in 19th Century clothing than I do in modern middle class suburban attire. Here are some images of me wearing 19th Century clothing in theatre plays. I enjoyed wearing this kind of attire a lot. It was stylish and elegant. I felt like I wore it in a past life too.

In the 19th century you would get lynched flaunting your fancy clothes, Hop Sing.

Here's a more realistic depiction of life and what you would be doing during that time period.















19th century America was a hellish place for non-white immigrants. Most of the population had low regard for non-white life and viewed it as expendable and barely human. There were only a few cities which Chinese immigrants could realistically live in without fear of being killed. A lot of the immigrant property laws were not even solidified during this time period which means unscrupulous land lords could steal your property legally. Chinese immigrants were getting burned out of states like Ohio and Oregon. That's why you don't see many 3rd-4th generation asian families in those states unlike Hawaii or NY. Even San Francisco was a dangerous place for most Chinese immigrants.

[Repatriate]

Winston's life in 2013




Vs.




and



Anti-Chinese massacre 1871 in Los Angeles.

[mrmillersd]

BINGO!


2013 America is the best time and place for me as a colored male to live PERIOD. I dont disagree that other countries may be better, but the USA is getting better and better in terms of quality of life for Asians.

[Repatriate]

Exactly.

The comparison is so ludicrous and I can't believe I have to point out how shitty the 19th century was if you were a minority. It's like pointing out that water is wet or the sky is blue.

[Bane]

[quote="mrmillersd"]If you take away womens right's, whats stopping the majority from taking away black's rights?

Radicial Feminism does not equal Women's rights. You have either misread or misunderstood my posts. Of course, having an archaic, patriarchal society is not what we should be going back to (although some posters are sure to flame me over that statement). I see nothing wrong with women having the right to vote, right to equal pay in the workforce, etc.

However, I do have a problem with these: Male bashing in both the media and in daily life, female supremacism, family court laws, the divorce industry. DV industry, FRAs, The View, Oprah, etc.

None of the items on the aforementioned list are necessary to create a just society between the sexes.

Please try to not be so absolutist in your thinking. There is a lot more grey area in the everyday workings of this world than you may think.

[mrmillersd]

Youre correct. I dont support male bashing, female supremicism either. Shit like that is pretty off the radar though....

I believe women should be able to chose who they want to bang, many people here don't. Why shouldn't women be able to chose whomever they want to interact with? If they dont like minorities or poor people, why should they be expected to? Before, blacks/asians/minorities weren't able to vote, own land, etc. just like how women were set up for arranged marriages. As liberal values liberates colored people, it also liberated women. White men gave women and minorities power. They gave us minorities a new standard of life we should be greatful for. It is the idea of Liberal equality that created both equal treatment of minorities but also equal treatment for women. Yes, that means women can bang and marry as many people as they'd like, hold top jobs etc.

Some people wish they never gave Women power. They didn't have to. But they also didn't have to free slaves, free enslaved chinamen, stop lynching etc.

For example, males get a big affirmitive action boost for top universities. HPY are 50/50 m/f. All race/gender blind institutions are 60/40 f/m ratio...top schools actively discriminate against female applicants to create a gender balance.


Dont get me wrong, i HATE the garbage aggresive feminism etc. But asking why a female should be able to want a divorce is like asking why you think blacks should have the right to not be slaves. The times have changed....for the better for most people.



Male Bashing? If someone bashes you it only hurts if you know deep down if what they are saying is true. If someone made fun of me for being short and fat, id be like wtf? I am 6'0 and jacked. That would offend me as much as saying I had 4 arms and green skin. Now if someone said i have weird mongoloid cranial features, pinholes for eyes that may hurt a little more. Male bashing in the media only hurts the weakest males....


Men are weak and subservient to women? Tell that to the guys at Princeton, million dollar trust fund, 4.0 in engineering, varsity athelete who can use and abuse as many women as they want. WEAK men have been shit on in every society in history. they are shit on a bit less now though. You think the most intelligent Alpha males didn't have an advantage with women from the beginning of time? Please

[Bane]

2013 America is the best time and place for me as a colored male to live PERIOD. I dont disagree that other countries may be better..

Also, not to be ridiculously nitpicky..... but you kind of just did disagree, when you wrote your previous sentence to the one that I underlined.

[mrmillersd]

i meant 2013 america as opposed to other time periods in america. sorry for the confusion

[S_Parc]

I think Winston's views on the 1800s were shaped by romantic authors like Walt Whitman, Jules Verne, or Mark Twain. Basically, a rosy viewpoint, against a backdrop of basic life challenges.

In contrast, it's a lot closer to Dickens or Harriet Beecher Stowe, a world where industrialization, bigotry, and class separations were immense. Even Dicken's protagonists, Oliver Twist and David Copperfield, only found some modicum of happiness, after many decades of misery. And these were the white ppl, just imagine the lot of everyone else.

[Bane]

Youre correct. I dont support male bashing, female supremicism either. Shit like that is pretty off the radar though....

I believe women should be able to chose who they want to bang, many people here don't. Why shouldn't women be able to chose whomever they want to interact with? If they dont like minorities or poor people, why should they be expected to? Before, blacks/asians/minorities weren't able to vote, own land, etc. just like how women were set up for arranged marriages. As liberal values liberates colored people, it also liberated women. White men gave women and minorities power. They gave us minorities a new standard of life we should be greatful for.

Some people wish they never gave Women power. They didn't have to. But they also didn't have to free slaves, free enslaved chinamen, stop lynching etc.

For example, males get a big affirmitive action boost for top universities. HPY are 50/50 m/f. All race/gender blind institutions are 60/40 f/m ratio...top schools actively discriminate against female applicants to create a gender balance.


Dont get me wrong, i HATE the garbage aggresive feminism etc. But asking why a female should be able to want a divorce is like asking why you think blacks should have the right to not be slaves. The times have changed....for the better for most people.



Male Bashing? If someone bashes you it only hurts if you know deep down if what they are saying is true. If someone made fun of me for being short and fat, id be like wtf? I am 6'0 and jacked. That would offend me as much as saying I had 4 arms and green skin. Now if someone said i have weird mongoloid cranial features, pinholes for eyes that may hurt a little more. Male bashing in the media only hurts the weakest males....


Men are weak and subservient to women? Tell that to the guys at Princeton, million dollar trust fund, 4.0 in engineering, varsity athelete who can use and abuse as many women as they want. WEAK men have been shit on in every society in history. they are shit on a bit less now though. You think the most intelligent Alpha males didn't have an advantage with women from the beginning of time? Please

What does the underlined paragraph have to do with anything I said? Perhaps it has to do with female supremacy bit? In that case, you misunderstood me again. Female supremacy refers in this case to the beliefs held by many feminists than men are not as good or are inferior to women, not to the fact that women are not taking up the traditional "alpha" roles as much in society.

Also, your paragraph on male bashing couldn't be more wrong. Male bashing hurts men because most of it is complete BS, it colors men in the wrong kind of light, and it does nothing to help or better the relations between men and women, not because "it's true." I have yet to see any concrete justification for it.

Let's look at another example. You think that whites in the 19th century bashing black people for their perceived shortcomings and disadvantages didn't hurt blacks, or that it only hurt "the weakest" blacks? Seriously?

If you think the above comparison is not valid, I welcome you to point out how it is an apples/oranges comparison.

[mrmillersd]

Yes female supremacy BELEIFS are held by many women. Just like how white supremacy was held by everyone in the 19th century. However, unlike marganilzied races in america in the 19th century, feminism, while a strong belief, is not EXECUTED onto society in the same way that white supremacy was. Men aren't forced into labor for women like blacks were.


Men are bashed in media, onlien and everywhere. That's where it stops-its just bashing. How has this hurt me as an individual?

My point is that women and feminisst viewpoints are not in control of society at all.





Men in college command p***y like never before.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashi ... d=all&_r=0

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

Id live all the way in 4000 B.C.E if:

I was extremely handsome,tall,and high Testosterone I'm talking chad White-tyson ballou tier here.

I was polynesian

I lived on a polynesian island like moorea or Tahiti with literally a full harem of this













I think indigenious hunter gatherer societies were pretty cool to live in in 1813.depending on the climate of course.

Id love to be a native american,polynesian or Southeast asian during those times in the tropics.I assume picking berries,hunting,f***ing your wives and slave women,then sleeping isnt a bad way to live.

but Civilization?f**k no.

Epic-a.ss post, guy. Epic post, guy!! +∞