Why laziness doesn't really exist

Post by **Winston** » April 26th, 2009, 3:41 am

From thezeitgeistmovement.com

"As an aside, it is important to point out that society today assumes a very negative posture towards humanity, retaining the belief that if human beings were not "required" to do something, they would just sit around, be lazy, and do nothing. This is absurd propaganda.

The notion of "leisure" is a monetary invention, created because of the oppressive, fascist basis of the employment institution itself. Laziness is, in fact, a form of rejection of the system. It is a quality that only exists due to the oppression and required servitude.

In a true society, there would be no such thing as the separation of "work and "leisure", for humans should be allowed to pursue whatever they feel is relevant. To put it a different way, consider the curiosity and interest of a child. He or she doesn't even know what money is...Do they need to be motivated by money to go out and explore/create? No. They have a personal interest and they pursue it without reward. In fact, the greatest contributors to our society, such as Einstein, Newton or Galileo, pursued what they did without any regard to money. They did it because they wanted to. The act of doing and contributing was their reward. "

W: This makes sense, after all, no one is "lazy" when they're doing what they love.

gmm567 · Post by **gmm567** » April 27th, 2009, 1:37 pm

The thing about laziness is that it is one of the prime drivers of healthy societies. As any economist will tell you, productivity improvement ( making more with less labor) is the key driver of capitaltist society.The increases in productivity increase the standard of living by lowering the cost of living. Think of the spiralling down of prices for digital cameras in the past 5 years. The price goes down so rapidly that we can actually see it. Well that is being done in every industry but we don't realize it because the improvement is only 1.5-2.5 percent per year. The improvement is invisible, but it is there and it is accurately measured.

The final end result of all this improvement---is a society where we don't have to work,especially at jobs that suck. We may not see this in our lifetime...but it will come.

icarus · Post by **icarus** » April 27th, 2009, 2:18 pm

gmm567 wrote:The thing about laziness is that it is one of the prime drivers of healthy societies. As any economist will tell you, productivity improvement ( making more with less labor) is the key driver of capitaltist society.The increases in productivity increase the standard of living by lowering the cost of living. Think of the spiralling down of prices for digital cameras in the past 5 years. The price goes down so rapidly that we can actually see it. Well that is being done in every industry but we don't realize it because the improvement is only 1.5-2.5 percent per year. The improvement is invisible, but it is there and it is accurately measured.

The final end result of all this improvement---is a society where we don't have to work,especially at jobs that suck. We may not see this in our lifetime...but it will come.

Interesting observation, but I can't help thinking that we are playing a semantics game between terms such as laziness, idle/leisure time and efficiency.

gmm567 · Post by **gmm567** » April 27th, 2009, 5:20 pm

I don't think it's just a semantic game. Labor economist have done surveys on worker satisfaction. About 75% of the work force doesn't like what they do. This is of course a horrible thing. Productivity enhancement will eventually raise living standards to the point where much of that distasteful work will be eliminated.

The lazy will get the leisure time that they deserve, and they won't be called lazy. They'll just be people who take more leisure time.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » April 28th, 2009, 7:16 am

As I wrote and responded to this before, with this kind of "laziness" attitude, you won't do well with women in China or Taiwan besides maybe the prostitutes(even they can be picky sometimes) as they believe the opposite of you. If you want to live in China and do well with the women, get yourself established meaning you should be working or running a business. It also makes it easy to live there as you generate your own income and you also have chances to pursue other interests.

Yes there are ways that make things more efficient but one still have to generate his own income but working less while earning more is great. For Winston, I suspect from other things I read about him, he doesn't generate enough income to support himself let alone a wife and a son. I suggested Winston if he wants to live in China, he know his Mandarin well and since he is fluent in English being a Overseas Taiwanese American, he can be an English teacher where he can support himself, make him established in the chicks eyes, and do well with Chinese chicks while living there. There are other ways to live in China like running a business which I did but its not easy and its risky. Perhaps with Winston's definition of "laziness" he should go back to the Philippines or maybe try out Thailand as I replied in another post in another board about Thailand.

icarus · Post by **icarus** » April 28th, 2009, 10:49 am

gmm567 wrote:I don't think it's just a semantic game. Labor economist have done surveys on worker satisfaction. About 75% of the work force doesn't like what they do. This is of course a horrible thing. Productivity enhancement will eventually raise living standards to the point where much of that distasteful work will be eliminated.

The lazy will get the leisure time that they deserve, and they won't be called lazy. They'll just be people who take more leisure time.

Having more leisure time because you are more productive and efficient is great. In fact I'm reading the book "The Four Hour Work Week" right now. But none of this takes away the fact that plain old fashioned laziness does and will always exist. I wanted to graduate from school and receive my degrees, but many times I put off doing my assignments and studying until the last minute. It wasn't a rejection of the system, I was just plain lazy right then.

Marco · Post by **Marco** » April 28th, 2009, 1:14 pm

swincor wrote:
Jake wrote:As I wrote and responded to this before, with this kind of "laziness" attitude, you won't do well with women in China or Taiwan besides maybe the prostitutes(even they can be picky sometimes) as they believe the opposite of you. If you want to live in China and do well with the women, get yourself established meaning you should be working or running a business. It also makes it easy to live there as you generate your own income and you also have chances to pursue other interests.

Yes there are ways that make things more efficient but one still have to generate his own income but working less while earning more is great. For Winston, I suspect from other things I read about him, he doesn't generate enough income to support himself let alone a wife and a son. I suggested Winston if he wants to live in China, he know his Mandarin well and since he is fluent in English being a Overseas Taiwanese American, he can be an English teacher where he can support himself, make him established in the chicks eyes, and do well with Chinese chicks while living there. There are other ways to live in China like running a business which I did but its not easy and its risky. Perhaps with Winston's definition of "laziness" he should go back to the Philippines or maybe try out Thailand as I replied in another post in another board about Thailand.

Actually, Winston could probably live in China being who he is. After all, his father is the one providing him with financial support. That's how he's been living in the Philippines all this time. So his laziness might not even be an issue.

_________________
Winston Wu: "Nothing wrong with a guy who wants occasional freedom and fun."

Chemist: "Then you should have stayed single and taken precautions to avoid impregnating somebody."

He could be living in China and spawn another kid with some poor Chinese girl while neglecting his son Angelo back in the Philippines. With his track record, I wouldn't be surprised he will neglect any future kids as his aimless ways to go anywhere, hooking up with any random poor girl without thinking of the potential consequences. Swincor, your sig says it all.

Post by **Winston** » April 30th, 2009, 2:09 am

gmm567 wrote:The thing about laziness is that it is one of the prime drivers of healthy societies. As any economist will tell you, productivity improvement ( making more with less labor) is the key driver of capitaltist society.The increases in productivity increase the standard of living by lowering the cost of living. Think of the spiralling down of prices for digital cameras in the past 5 years. The price goes down so rapidly that we can actually see it. Well that is being done in every industry but we don't realize it because the improvement is only 1.5-2.5 percent per year. The improvement is invisible, but it is there and it is accurately measured.

The final end result of all this improvement---is a society where we don't have to work,especially at jobs that suck. We may not see this in our lifetime...but it will come.

W: If you're talking about automation, isn't the motive behind that to help the company save money? It's the same motive behind outsourcing, they are trying to reduce costs. It's not to free up time for more people. The bottom line is profit here, in the monetary system. That's the bottom line to the shareholders of a corporation too. Corporations only get involved in charity for their public image.

The fallacy about automation is that as it reduces the need for human labor, more people are out of work. And as more people are unemployed, less people are able to afford the company's goods and services. As of now, there is no solution to this and it's not even being addressed. It reveals an inherent flaw in the system that may bring about its downfall.

Post by **Winston** » April 30th, 2009, 2:21 am

gmm567 wrote:I don't think it's just a semantic game. Labor economist have done surveys on worker satisfaction. About 75% of the work force doesn't like what they do. This is of course a horrible thing. Productivity enhancement will eventually raise living standards to the point where much of that distasteful work will be eliminated.

The lazy will get the leisure time that they deserve, and they won't be called lazy. They'll just be people who take more leisure time.

W: Well that's the hope of the Zeitgeist Movement and what it's trying to achieve. Gmm567, you should join the movement or at least watch its first two films. They are very inspiring and life changing, a must see. I can personally vouch for this. Here is the film that's most relevant to what you're talking about.

Zeitgeist 2: Addendum

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7695921912

BTW, here is an interesting site I found that has suggestions for freeing yourself of a wage slave life, and decrease your dependence on money.

http://www.whywork.org/about/welcome.html

Post by **Winston** » April 30th, 2009, 2:36 am

Jake wrote:As I wrote and responded to this before, with this kind of "laziness" attitude, you won't do well with women in China or Taiwan besides maybe the prostitutes(even they can be picky sometimes) as they believe the opposite of you. If you want to live in China and do well with the women, get yourself established meaning you should be working or running a business. It also makes it easy to live there as you generate your own income and you also have chances to pursue other interests.

Yes there are ways that make things more efficient but one still have to generate his own income but working less while earning more is great. For Winston, I suspect from other things I read about him, he doesn't generate enough income to support himself let alone a wife and a son. I suggested Winston if he wants to live in China, he know his Mandarin well and since he is fluent in English being a Overseas Taiwanese American, he can be an English teacher where he can support himself, make him established in the chicks eyes, and do well with Chinese chicks while living there. There are other ways to live in China like running a business which I did but its not easy and its risky. Perhaps with Winston's definition of "laziness" he should go back to the Philippines or maybe try out Thailand as I replied in another post in another board about Thailand.

W: Yeah well I've known that my whole life. That's why I am a different creature than my own family. I'm not a workaholic (unless I'm doing something I love) and my soul is not really Chinese. I am way too open for a Chinese person. A Chinese soul and mind is rigid, judgmental, conformist, driven by fear and strict control. Like the Christian fundamentalists, Chinese believe that human nature is evil and idle and if left uncontrolled, will result in evil vices and mischief. Thus, people must be controlled strictly or else chaos will erupt. FEAR is the prime motivator of Chinese people. It's used in their mind control techniques. If you watch a Chinese parent yelling at their child closely, you will notice a TRANSFERENCE of fear between them. The fear that their parents live with deep down inside is transferred to their child as they are being lectured, instilling the same fear in them as well. It's a subconscious control mechanism that is passed down from generation to generation.

My parents have it too. It's in their subconscious. But I choose to live in hope, optimism, confidence and faith. These things are alien to my parents and their primordial instincts of fear, control and conformity. Thus there is an uncomfortable vibe between us and we do not speak that much to each other.

Most Chinese people ONLY see everything in terms of practical things, like work, money, cooking, cleaning, etc. They do not think in terms of concepts, ideas, theories, etc. esp that are outside the box. Their knowledge of the world is only of practical things. They do not have an intellectual way of thinking.

This creates a mental rift between me and the average Chinese or Asian folks. In the Philippines, mainstream people are simple minded too, but they are not judgmental control freaks who live in fear like the Chinese are. And they are not picky about little things (one reason why their food tastes so bad). Instead, they are very let loose and open, a vibe I'm much more comfortable around.

I'll tell you though, when a person has been ruled by strict control their whole lives, they exude a vibe that makes me feel uptight as well if I'm around them.

BTW, I don't see why prostitutes in China would be picky. It's not like they have to understand me first before sleeping with me. Usually, as long as you look decent, do not smell bad and do not belong to a racial/ethnic group that they are repulsed by, they will go with you, as long as you pay.

The only prostitutes that have rejected me were in Russia and Poland, and it was because they were disgusted by Asians.

Sure you gotta make a living, but you can't be something you're not too. Thus the challenge is to find a BALANCE between who you are and what you have to do. I'm not going to do something I hate just cause society says so. No way. I want to get rich too, but in a way that's comfortable and natural to me. If you put me on a factory line assembly, which is monotonous and will burn me out quickly, I will get lazy fast. But if you give me a job with National Geographic as a Photographer or Filmmaker and send me to an exotic country to film wildlife or remote cultures, then I will become a workaholic and be at it every waking hour, because it's something that I would love to do.

So, under the right conditions, I can be a workaholic too. Think of the thousands of hours I've put into this website for instance. It involved a lot more than you could imagine. I certainly was not lazy about putting this massive site together, which involved solving many technical problems that I was new to.

Sure, I only make $200 a month from this site, which is not enough, but it's better than what most people trying to make money online get.

BTW Jake, if I was a practical minded Chinese, I would not have created this website. It would not exist. And neither would this forum. A typical Chinese mind only does things that have a practical benefit. This website is more about ideas and stories inspiring others. It is intellectually based and deals with concepts regarding dating and social lives. It is not about practical things. A mainstream practical minded Chinese person would not be interested in what this site stands for. In short Jake, I would be working all day, and playing with my electronic gadgets at night, and not even be discussing this with you, if I were a typical Asian workaholic. Keep that in mind.

Post by **Winston** » April 30th, 2009, 2:50 am

swincor wrote:
Jake wrote:As I wrote and responded to this before, with this kind of "laziness" attitude, you won't do well with women in China or Taiwan besides maybe the prostitutes(even they can be picky sometimes) as they believe the opposite of you. If you want to live in China and do well with the women, get yourself established meaning you should be working or running a business. It also makes it easy to live there as you generate your own income and you also have chances to pursue other interests.

Yes there are ways that make things more efficient but one still have to generate his own income but working less while earning more is great. For Winston, I suspect from other things I read about him, he doesn't generate enough income to support himself let alone a wife and a son. I suggested Winston if he wants to live in China, he know his Mandarin well and since he is fluent in English being a Overseas Taiwanese American, he can be an English teacher where he can support himself, make him established in the chicks eyes, and do well with Chinese chicks while living there. There are other ways to live in China like running a business which I did but its not easy and its risky. Perhaps with Winston's definition of "laziness" he should go back to the Philippines or maybe try out Thailand as I replied in another post in another board about Thailand.

Actually, Winston could probably live in China being who he is. After all, his father is the one providing him with financial support. That's how he's been living in the Philippines all this time. So his laziness might not even be an issue.

W: Don't jump the gun here. I never told Jake that I planned to live in China. To plan such a thing would be illogical, given that I've never been there. I only talked about a trip to scope it out first. And for the cultural experience too of course.

White tourists always have positive things to say about going to China. But Taiwanese tourists say negative things and focus on how Chinese people there try to cheat them and rip them off.

elm118 · Post by **elm118** » October 2nd, 2009, 4:42 pm

I couldn't agree more, but whats that have to do with bitchy American women??

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » October 28th, 2009, 3:55 am

Funny thing is, in the US (the workalcholic capital of the world) if your not working your considered a lazy bum (unless you are retired then it's OK to not be working). I know people who are workalcholics and they actually get depressed when they are not working! When they take a vacation they may feel guilty that they are not working! WTF? They can't even enjoy being on vacation!

In America a good trait to have is being someone who works a lot and makes their job the center piece of their life! Who in their right mind would want to make their job the center piece of their life? Especially since most people hate their jobs! I heard a statistic on the radio that said 80% of Americans hate their jobs! I believe it, people don't work where they want to work, they work where ever they can find a job, even if it means taking a job they don't like!

Think about this, you spend MOST of your life working! Now, if most people hate their jobs, you spend MOST of your life doing something you HATE! WTF? No wonder so many people can't wait to retire and get out of the 9 to 5 rat race!