My Chinese girlfriend: Should I abandon ship? I love her.

[kai1275]

Living in China for 2-3 years is very f***ing hard though. You might need to go outside from time to time for sanity reasons.

Yeah, learn from my experiences guys. I lasted 4 months in China. I'll end up going mad in Bangkok as well. It takes a special type of person to live here long time. I met a guy who'd been here 15 years. He was crazy. The advice he gave me was just laugh at every stupid thing that happens to me out here.

That is f***ing hilarious! I'm dying of laughter. Doing that would turn you into The Joker with no Batman around to make you stop laughing.

That said, the only expats that last a long time in China are the married ones. Especially the more financially comfortable ones. Like I said in my guide. Your Chinese family will be your only protection in China. They can stop lots of the worst case situations from happening to you. If you have high demands and spoilage from America, it is still too hard to do stints longer than 1 year without a short break in between. I know someone that speaks Mandarin on an expert level and better than any Chinese person I know. He cannot stand living in China longer than 4 months at a time and he has been doing this over 20 years now. He doesn't teach English in China and has good paying jobs as a translator for law firms, etc. and things like that. He is also unmarried.

China is getting better and better everyday, it's come a long way, but it still needs more time.

[magnum]

Thanks for the information people, I always process and think on it.

While in shenyang I had a job interview with the head of a English school and she more or less said if I print out a fake diploma they wont check it, I don't recall the pay rate or the hours, but I'm sure it wasn't one of the better ones that give you 8,000 a month for 4 hours a day, it's interesting how much difference in pay and benefits English teaching jobs have.

Some pay only 7k a month for 3 to 4 hours a day teaching, others are 8 hour days and pay the same amount per month, it's insane.

I could live in china, but I'd need a vacation to America to at least see my father, one of the few humans in this world I have attachment to.


on a off note...she knows I have options too guys, I'm handsome I stay in shape and never stop exercising, and if I love in china I know I have a million choices...even to better looking women, not that I think my girl friend isn't attractive, but I know I could do better if I was going only for looks, but it's the mind and body not just one or the other.

truth is if I teach English in china I'd be making money I can actually be saving for once, based on the incomes I see and my life style, I could save up 10k USD in a year, by the 3erd year I'm looking at 30k to 40k in my bank and not to mention I'll have a huge amount of women to at least ATTEMPT to date, I'd rather have a small chance with women I find attractive then American women who'll rape my soul and take my money.

no I honestly don't want to live in china, I much rather live in japan, but that's not where my girl friend lives, and they require a degree or...wait for it....3 years English teaching experience, so you see, even if things don't work out, they still kind of work out.

Even with that said, I'm going to have to think on it.


@kai

To my shame, I did sleep with her, I failed in my quest to remain a virgin before I get married, 28 year old virgin gets defeated by a 19 year old.

The girl snuck in to my room at 2 am in the morning...with no cloths on...and seeing as the 3 second rule doesn't apply to virginity it was too late to stop it, I wont go in to any more detail, it isn't a excuse, I know I failed.

She messaged my mother and my father, even called my father dad....asking where I was because I didn't respond to her last night.

[RedMenace]

Thanks for the information people, I always process and think on it.

While in shenyang I had a job interview with the head of a English school and she more or less said if I print out a fake diploma they wont check it, I don't recall the pay rate or the hours, but I'm sure it wasn't one of the better ones that give you 8,000 a month for 4 hours a day, it's interesting how much difference in pay and benefits English teaching jobs have.

Some pay only 7k a month for 3 to 4 hours a day teaching, others are 8 hour days and pay the same amount per month, it's insane.

I could live in china, but I'd need a vacation to America to at least see my father, one of the few humans in this world I have attachment to.


on a off note...she knows I have options too guys, I'm handsome I stay in shape and never stop exercising, and if I love in china I know I have a million choices...even to better looking women, not that I think my girl friend isn't attractive, but I know I could do better if I was going only for looks, but it's the mind and body not just one or the other.

truth is if I teach English in china I'd be making money I can actually be saving for once, based on the incomes I see and my life style, I could save up 10k USD in a year, by the 3erd year I'm looking at 30k to 40k in my bank and not to mention I'll have a huge amount of women to at least ATTEMPT to date, I'd rather have a small chance with women I find attractive then American women who'll rape my soul and take my money.

no I honestly don't want to live in china, I much rather live in japan, but that's not where my girl friend lives, and they require a degree or...wait for it....3 years English teaching experience, so you see, even if things don't work out, they still kind of work out.

Even with that said, I'm going to have to think on it.


@kai

To my shame, I did sleep with her, I failed in my quest to remain a virgin before I get married, 28 year old virgin gets defeated by a 19 year old.

The girl snuck in to my room at 2 am in the morning...with no cloths on...and seeing as the 3 second rule doesn't apply to virginity it was too late to stop it, I wont go in to any more detail, it isn't a excuse, I know I failed.

She messaged my mother and my father, even called my father dad....asking where I was because I didn't respond to her last night.

Nice. I would appreciate it if you pm me the details mate. It will be helpful for my 2 weeks quest to Shanghai.

[kai1275]

Thanks for the information people, I always process and think on it.

While in shenyang I had a job interview with the head of a English school and she more or less said if I print out a fake diploma they wont check it, I don't recall the pay rate or the hours, but I'm sure it wasn't one of the better ones that give you 8,000 a month for 4 hours a day, it's interesting how much difference in pay and benefits English teaching jobs have.

Some pay only 7k a month for 3 to 4 hours a day teaching, others are 8 hour days and pay the same amount per month, it's insane.

I could live in china, but I'd need a vacation to America to at least see my father, one of the few humans in this world I have attachment to.


on a off note...she knows I have options too guys, I'm handsome I stay in shape and never stop exercising, and if I love in china I know I have a million choices...even to better looking women, not that I think my girl friend isn't attractive, but I know I could do better if I was going only for looks, but it's the mind and body not just one or the other.

truth is if I teach English in china I'd be making money I can actually be saving for once, based on the incomes I see and my life style, I could save up 10k USD in a year, by the 3erd year I'm looking at 30k to 40k in my bank and not to mention I'll have a huge amount of women to at least ATTEMPT to date, I'd rather have a small chance with women I find attractive then American women who'll rape my soul and take my money.

no I honestly don't want to live in china, I much rather live in japan, but that's not where my girl friend lives, and they require a degree or...wait for it....3 years English teaching experience, so you see, even if things don't work out, they still kind of work out.

Even with that said, I'm going to have to think on it.


@kai

To my shame, I did sleep with her, I failed in my quest to remain a virgin before I get married, 28 year old virgin gets defeated by a 19 year old.

The girl snuck in to my room at 2 am in the morning...with no cloths on...and seeing as the 3 second rule doesn't apply to virginity it was too late to stop it, I wont go in to any more detail, it isn't a excuse, I know I failed.

She messaged my mother and my father, even called my father dad....asking where I was because I didn't respond to her last night.

Eh... LOL! Well that's life dude. You two will look back on this and laugh someday hopefully. She got you good and you got her good too obviously. She's a keeper. Ignore the anti-marriage brigade here on HA. Just do what you can to make it work. You two can continue to grow up together well, which is a good thing. Love is patience. Make a plan and stick to it. If you put together a good plan, she will fall in line with it and be patient too.

[rudder]

If you jump through this hoop for her, you'll be jumping through her hoops for the rest of your miserable life. Seriously, a college degree won't magically make things better. You'll just spend money on some useless shit that no employer really cares about...at best you'll just pigeonhole yourself into some dead-end career. Tell her what a waste of time a 4-year college degree is. Then go tell her to f**k herself for trying to change you. She'll come around.

Sure she washed your clothes by hand. Yes, a relationship is about "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine." But what she's demanding is essentially that she runs your life and makes big life decisions for you, because of what she thinks is best. You need to make a counter-offer that's equally as outlandish. "I'll go to college if you pay for it." If she thinks college is such a good investment tell her to put her money where her mouth is. Heck, just tell her you can't afford college, and then it becomes a moot point, and she would essentially be breaking up with you for being poor, in which case it's a win-win situation. You win because you find out that she's a manipulative gold-digger, and then don't have to live with her. Or you win because she comes around and realizes that she's acting out of line.

I hate to use game terminology, but this just seems like one big shit test to me. Play your cards accordingly. Don't fold.

[rudder]

I never really got a good vibe from most Chinese women when I was in China. They can make good girlfriends for some guys. However, I think the long term success rate with Chinese women is lower than it is with Filipinas. When her parents find out their only daughter wants to marry a foreigner it won't go over well.

Yes. I reread the initial post from the OP, and it's almost like he's re-telling a business interaction. That's the stereotype I have of Chinese women. Cold and calculated.

[Everdred]

@magnum

I've been following all of your threads very closely. I honestly think they're some of the best threads this forum has seen over the last year. I kind of see you as an "underdog," and I've always been rooting you on, but I also think your relationship with this young Chinese girl is destined to fail. I've always had this thought in the back of my mind that somewhere down the road her family is going to strongly disapprove of your educational background. Well that time is now.

I lived in Liaoning for two and a half years, I speak "acceptable" Mandarin and read/write Chinese fairly well, and I've been with my Chinese girlfriend for four years now. That said, I think I know a thing or two about how Chinese women think. There's a 99% chance she's taking heat from her family, especially from her father, for getting with a foreigner who has a lower educational background then her. It's a loss of face for her family for her to do such a thing. Remember, no matter how much she "loves" or cares for you, in the end it doesn't matter, because ultimately her family is going to shun her for selling herself short. 95% of mainland Chinese women won't go against their family's wishes when it comes to selecting a significant other. This is ESPECIALLY true for a girl who's only 20 years old. Now if she were 30, her family might relax their expectations a little. But at only 20 years old? No way! Like others have already said, at 20 she can be quite picky, especially if she's really good-looking.

I really don't think there's too much you can do to keep this relationship alive, because there's a 95% chance she's just going to give in to pressure from her family. I'm sorry, but that's just the way Chinese people work. Young Chinese women may be enamored by "unconditional love," but deep in their hearts they don't want it. Love is VERY conditional in China, especially to women. Relationship practicality almost always triumphs over relationship emotions in China.

As for teaching English in China without a degree: I strongly recommend you don't take that route. Back in July, China tightened up its visa regulations for foreigners wishing to visit or live in China. It's definitely impossible (according to Chinese law) for you to be issued a work permit (your ticket to live in China long-term) without a degree. Sure, there might be some places in backwoods China that could get you a work permit because they have proper "guanxi," but those kind of schools are small in number and most likely located in undesirable smaller cities/towns. As for getting a fake degree, that sounds like a terrible plan, and you would have to live your days in China with paranoia, especially when it comes time to go down to immigration or to the PSB (Public Security Bureau). Trust me, that's not a comfortable way to live your life in China.


Here are your choices:

1. Just continue things the way they are hoping in vain that things will work out. Of course I don't think things will work out this way. Hell, I could be wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if everything between you two suddenly seems fine and dandy again, but then later this whole lack-of-a-degree situation resurfaces. I think it'll come back to haunt you later down the road.

2. Get a fake university degree, move to China, get an English teaching job in Shenyang, and pray for the best. I'm sure eventually this plan would lead to great trouble, or your living situation would crumble apart. But like I said, there's a small chance you could work at a desperate-to-get-a-native-English-teacher school with proper guanxi in some backwoods part of China. Maybe you wouldn't mind working in a small town?

3. Get a university degree and then move back to China. Of course that would take four years minimum, and even then there's no guarantee your relationship with this girl would succeed. Sure is a lot of work for a woman. At least you would have a degree though (and probably thousands of dollars of student loan debt).

4. Be preemptive and just end the relationship yourself and then go on a quest to find a new girlfriend. Sure, this will likely be the most emotionally painful route, but I'm sure you'll recover eventually. However, you should be warned about finding another Chinese girlfriend, because the same situation will likely repeat itself if you get with a woman who has a better educational background than yourself. Unless your dead set on having a Chinese girlfriend, you can also consider finding a new girlfriend in other surrounding Asian countries.


I'm sorry if these options sound grim, but that's the best advice I can give without bullsh*tting you. Once again i want to say I love reading your threads and I'll always be rooting you on. You have a lot of balls to do what you did, and you've set a nice example for others to follow. No matter what the outcome of your current relationship situation is, just let it be a learning experience. I saw everything that has happened to you coming from a mile away (only because of my experience with China). You've become wiser, less ignorant, and more experienced from this whole scenario.

[magnum]

Thanks for that Everdead.

I'm a realistic person with a blunt personality and a can do or die attitude, I've had to develop a positive attitude to push forward with my background, that's why I even made it to china in the first place.

The down side is, if I end things with this girl, I'm not sure where or what to do next, as I can't regularly leave country hopping hopping the find my magic fix for a wife, financially even if I could at this point I'd keep losing my jobs....and as much as I hate to be jailed down to a job, it's really coming to a end, my living situation is going to change soon and in light of that, I have two options, join the military or teach English in china with a fake paper.

What you said about the laws in July though might seriously destroy the plans I had, I know the first time I was in Shenyang and inquirer about teaching it was a few months before July.


My girl friends father already didn't like the idea when I showed up, but he started to like me after the English teaching and selling of food in her home town, though, if she told him I haven't found work yet or has been complaining about me to him, he's probably saying dump me.

Too bad I don't like Philippines, this wouldn't even be a problem.....I had to pick the 3 most difficult races to woo, Japanese, Chinese, Korean.....ah well, I guess you always want what you can't have.

I don't believe in can't, I only believe in will and will not, in the end you limit your self and you make the choice that something isn't worth the trouble to achieve.

[anamericaninbangkok]

Living in China for 2-3 years is very f***ing hard though. You might need to go outside from time to time for sanity reasons.

Yeah, learn from my experiences guys. I lasted 4 months in China. I'll end up going mad in Bangkok as well. It takes a special type of person to live here long time. I met a guy who'd been here 15 years. He was crazy. The advice he gave me was just laugh at every stupid thing that happens to me out here.

Well that was just as well because two days ago I had to wade through over a foot of water to get to my hotel. Tonight's bus journey home was like that movie Speed 2: Cruise Control, but with buses instead of boats. At one point the bus actually got wedged against the wall of the SkyTrain viaduct. And I got home to find my room full of flying ants - the little guys who live in my bathroom have been busy. I don't know how much more insanity I can take. On top of that we have Guangzhou-like levels of humidity since the mother of all rainstorms.

I wouldn't do the fake degree thing. I don't know about China but in Thailand a foreigner got jail time for doing that.

As to girls, getting emotionally attached to females is dangerous. I've found the only way I can shift them from my brain is by finding a better girl, or they find somebody else. Clingy girls are hazardous in the extreme.

There are loads of options out there though. In Bangkok everyone seems to be single. Every time I log into Thai Love Links I see 100, maybe 1000 girls I've never seen before. I wish I'd worked my way through my dating bucket list before I started seriously looking for The One.

Xiongmao - I wouldn't take your advice if someone paid me. About the only things you've done with any success is left the UK and bitched and moaned.

You bailed on China and you're ready to bail on Thailand. You are right. It does take a certain type of person to live abroad. Why are you incapable of doing so when so many others can? Have you ever any thought to why you can't handle living in China or Thailand and you can't even seem to find a woman in a place where it's easy as flipping a light switch if you're even semi-successful?

I offered to meet with you. Nothing. No worries, I have plenty to do. Online dating is not the only answer nor would I say it is an answer. The reason you see so many women online is because they're poor or they want a way out. Can you not hook up with a chick who has a life of her own, who could support you if God forbid something happened to you, or find one that has a personality? Did you ever think maybe you expect too much or you are the problem?

I keep saying these things to you but it seems like you're scared of doing things differently. So you get the same result. I told you, LEARN THAI - you quit. I told you, give it time, all you do is bitch about the women, bitch about this, bitch about that. Negativity and complete bullshit gets you nowhere.

If you don't want to believe me, then believe the other guys who know Thailand. Maybe the guy who's been here 15 years is on to something when he says to laugh things off. He may be crazy, maybe not, but you're the one guy I read that is constantly complaining. If you don't want to take anyone's advice and you don't like living in other countries, why did you leave home? One of two things is going to happen: either you're going to GET IT or you're going to give up and go home, which is my guess.

Here's the thing - get your mind right and things don't matter as much. As long as you're above ground, making an honest living, you're not being cheated out of a large sum of money, getting thrown in jail for something you didn't do, or knocking up several chicks at once, life is good.

Two days ago you had to wade through a foot of water to get to your hotel - SO WHAT? Is it that big of a f***ing deal? If this sort of thing or flying ants are that big of a deal, just go home already. f**k me man, I'd hate to have you with me on a trip to Guyana or in the jungles of Myanmar, or in the the Congo or somewhere like this, you'd be crying like a little bitch.

MAGNUM - I understand you're hurting but fake degrees are not the answer. The chances of going to jail are slim but you're missing the bigger picture. Tell the girl BYE-BYE. Grow some balls, understand you'll have other women, and tell her good bye. Seriously. You're going to get a fake degree to stay there, you're not going to Japan because of her, her family doesn't like you. Oh well, FIND SOMEONE WORTHY.

The good thing about Asia is you can f**k the pain away with a little money. Believe me, a couple of weeks of non-stop f***ing sexy girls will do wonders for a man. You'll get over it. If you dropped 135lbs you're a strong dude - stay strong - this chick isn't the answer and you deserve a woman who is going to take care of you, love you no matter what, and who will know when to draw the line at giving you too much shit. Behind every good man is a good woman - but they MUST be good or you're better off without them.

[magnum]

Well first off, I don't randomly sleep with women, I really did it this time because

1. I don't believe in the 3 second rule when it comes to sex, I'll let you figure that one out.

2. I'm a bad christian because Failed to maintain self control but I knew it would bring me and my girl friend closer.




And honestly, I've maxed out, if you want to talk about physical attraction, I'll never date a girl this attractive again, I'm surprised I managed to land her in the first place, looks still matter even in other countries, just the they aren't the most important thing and though I think I'm attractive I'm not on par with my girl friend by any means.


Her actions have made me angry, but she knows the kind of man am, when we made money in her home town, she and her father were mad I wouldn't let her control the money, I told her more or less you're never controlling the money, I'm old fashioned and I'm better at saving money then you, and it's true, she always wants to buy snacks and other junk we don't need.

A lot of the problem is she's freshly 20 years old and regularly getting half the sleep she needs and doing a ungodly amount of college work.


I will say this though, I HATE the kind of music she likes, her music taste is about on par with Americans taste, so that's a warning in its self.

Logically her being from a smaller poorer town should mean she isn't as damaged mentally or as spoiled, but she has had mother issues before, her mother originally was going to abort her but she was too old so the hospital wouldn't do it, her mother treated her poorly and her father though not being bad to her fallowed the mothers lead or so she tells me.

Before her mother passed she said her mother warmed up to her and wanted to see her, but she passed away right before her and I could go visit her.

I'm sure she has some damage emotionally, as do we all, but that's why I don't want to write her off right away, besides, a lifetime of happiness with someone you love is worth the risk and in my situation I'm not exactly risking much but time, I have no career, my family is moving to another part of California soon, I have friends here but starting a family is important to me.

I'll continue to check peoples advice and give updates to my situation.

[Taco]

If you want to marry an Asian woman its a good idea to get far away from her family, they will only cause trouble for you. You have a better chance with a long term relationship with your girlfriend if you move to a city in China far from her parents or to another country(USA, UK etc...).

[zboy1]

This is why I decided to get my bachelors degree FIRST, before I moved overseas, unlike what people like DJforumoney was advising people do on this forum, and calling me names because I was taking my sweet time beforehand with my preparation and planning.

I knew that a U.S. College degree meant a lot to people overseas...And I knew it would help me to get a job abroad. I didn't want to find myself in the same situation that Mangnum finds himself in right now...

[aozora13]

I agree to that although it is indoctrinated in many people. Usually having a Bachelor's degree does help in the hiring process (especially in the US for many jobs such as IT have lower experience requirements when having a degree).

I agree with zboy1 jobs abroad but with magnum's situation is a special case because of his girlfriend's family does not want to loose face with him having a high school diploma while she is a university student.

I think he still has a chance to decide. She is still interested in him. Everdead is correct in that most likely that her family is forcing her to do that and the problem is that he is late 20s and has a few options which do not seem good as joining the military which is end of relationship with her or try to teach English on a fake diploma or devote 4 years to get his degree which might be possible with loans.

I think Everdead's options are the only ones that are good at this point.

[RedMenace]

Well first off, I don't randomly sleep with women, I really did it this time because

1. I don't believe in the 3 second rule when it comes to sex, I'll let you figure that one out.

2. I'm a bad christian because Failed to maintain self control but I knew it would bring me and my girl friend closer.




And honestly, I've maxed out, if you want to talk about physical attraction, I'll never date a girl this attractive again, I'm surprised I managed to land her in the first place, looks still matter even in other countries, just the they aren't the most important thing and though I think I'm attractive I'm not on par with my girl friend by any means.


Her actions have made me angry, but she knows the kind of man am, when we made money in her home town, she and her father were mad I wouldn't let her control the money, I told her more or less you're never controlling the money, I'm old fashioned and I'm better at saving money then you, and it's true, she always wants to buy snacks and other junk we don't need.

A lot of the problem is she's freshly 20 years old and regularly getting half the sleep she needs and doing a ungodly amount of college work.


I will say this though, I HATE the kind of music she likes, her music taste is about on par with Americans taste, so that's a warning in its self.

Logically her being from a smaller poorer town should mean she isn't as damaged mentally or as spoiled, but she has had mother issues before, her mother originally was going to abort her but she was too old so the hospital wouldn't do it, her mother treated her poorly and her father though not being bad to her fallowed the mothers lead or so she tells me.

Before her mother passed she said her mother warmed up to her and wanted to see her, but she passed away right before her and I could go visit her.

I'm sure she has some damage emotionally, as do we all, but that's why I don't want to write her off right away, besides, a lifetime of happiness with someone you love is worth the risk and in my situation I'm not exactly risking much but time, I have no career, my family is moving to another part of California soon, I have friends here but starting a family is important to me.

I'll continue to check peoples advice and give updates to my situation.

It's all making sense now. I am sorry to say and I may be wrong but you have a ticking time bomb man. I can now see why this girl has to resort to online dating foreigners even though she is young and beautiful as you claim.

Once some very pretty girl 20 yrs old added me on qq. She lived in a small village on an island somewhere within the Chinese border. She sent me a bunch of pictures of her posing as a model after we had spoken for a while on video. She spoke absolutely no English so I had to teach her some English and relied heavily on translation. From the start I sensed something. It wasn't because of her behaviour but I just sensed she wasn't normal. Later it turned out she had major anger management issues and her parents never wanted her or some sh*t. I said she was f*cking crazy and wouldn't make a good wife so she deleted me and that was that. See this girl will either use you big time or f*ck you up real good if you continue with her. She probably watches sex and the city and figured the best way to keep you would be sex. Now I don't have a problem with that in itself but it says a lot about a woman's quality.

The only thing I have managed to get from the female from Shanghai is a mildly sexy photo of her lying on a sofa in some provocative pose that showed her petite legs. Even to get that I had to give her damn topless photo to show her I trust her. She says we have to be physically together in a relationship then I can look at some photo of her in a bikini when she went to the beach with her friend. As much as I hate that I didn't get more sexy photos of her, I respect that. I want my wife to be like that. Hard on the outside to deter simps and players but soft on the inside with only me having the key to unlock the hard exterior.

I know it's hard for us to get out of the "captain save a hoe" phase but you have to start thinking logically mate. Right now you are all emotional. Like they say misery loves company. This girl will transfer her emotional damage that it impossible to heal to you. Personally I would run like the plague from such people even though it may seem cold and we all feel the need to help women in such position. In the long run it's simply not worth it.

[FinnMonash]

Technically more individuals can do well with no diploma in China with a company. She doesn't understand that faculty (university) is expensive, even state colleges. And yes it will take you added 4 years to obtain a degree. You should find another Chinese lady who likes a man who a great characteristics and who loves to supply to his family. It appears that you really have these characteristics, even trying your best to invest as long as possible along with her.