As to your question...hmmmm, well, perhaps I could have courted and won some upper middlepublicduende wrote:Spot on, OW. Unfortunately, many of the things you mention - time, perseverance, conviction, attention to the local culture and customs - don't resonate too well with the "need it easy, cheap and yesterday" attitude of the younger generations of Americans. If, as you admit, even adult and middle-aged men can easily be deluded that a hot, traditional and well-educated Pinay will fall into their laps only by virtue of a handful of online chats (with a few minutes of pixelated webcam) and a couple of weeks spent over there, just imagine what expectations the younger 'uns may be nurturing.OutWest wrote:Western "dating" runs into old world reality. Of course there is a way to win in this situation
if you find a keeper and want to win her over. It is nothing that can be done on a vacation though.
I would have told he that I was thankful that she was keeping herself away from modern dating or American style dating, and that you thought that traditional Filipino courtship was much better.
I would get to know a few of her friends...especially one that seems sympathetic. Develop
her as a confidant. A traditional good girl in the Philippines does not want her reputation ruined
by becoming the vacation GF of foreigner. Tell the friend that your intentions are honorable
and that you intend courtship for marriage and wish to respect Filipino traditions.
You confidant will of course relay this of course, and if you are getting the green light(it may take time) you will know. Learn some tradition and show that you are willing to abide by those things.
Show that your intentions are honorable. Of course, for most Westerners, showing honorable intentions would be a basic contradiction in their character.
Take your time, get feedback on how this is going over with her dad (and mom) as as grandma
and grandpa. Join a local booster club of some sort and donate some time to a local charity.
If she is at all interested, you are giving her cover and justification for showing that interest.
She may begin confiding with her aunt or other family confidant that she has interest in you.
>>>>At some point, the fact that you are "different" will filter into their reality.
Be very respectful of her family. That is super important. At some point you want
to have that conversation with her father. You are marriage minded and that would be your sole
intention with courtship.
And did I say, be respectful of her family?
Invite her brother out for dinner and a few drinks. Make a friend.
If she has grandparents, show them care and every kindness.
This could go on and on, but if by this point you are getting green lights...
things would be about to get interesting. Of course, very very few Western men will ever do
anything like this. But for those who dare....
Outwest
As well as impatience, another problem I see is the fact that the American work ethics will only allow decent money and no free time, or plenty of free time and limited/welfare money. I don't know how many good-hearted young men have enough savings to leave their corporate jobs, travel to the Philippines and spend the weeks, if not months, needed to establish themselves among the locals, meet the right kind of young women, get intimate with them and their entourage and, finally, woo one. As far as I know, a mid-career American man has around 10 or 15 days of paid leave per year. How many of them would want to commit 75% or 100% of their holiday pool on the hope to find the perfect young gf?
The only category I see succeeding that way is the rare young expat on a good package and European (25/30 days per year) holidays, perhaps stationed in a first-world socio-economic platform "commutable" to the other SEA destinations. When I was in Singapore in 2009 I saw quite a few of those late-20-to-mid-30 lucky dogs doing very well both in town or on frequent trips to neighbouring Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand or the Philippines.
Your suggestion, to focus on "the one" and invest enough time and effort, is a good one. The thing I have noticed is, traditional girls from upper middle class backgrounds - the Ateneo, De La Salle or Santo Tomas graduates - will have have massive pressure from their social peers and family not to stray from the pre-determined path of settling with a young man of similar or superior heritage. I really wouldn't see many of those top-notch young women dissing most of their social circle and choosing a 40-something or divorced foreigner. Of course I have heard stories fo those girls who leave their families and venture into dating adults, Filipinos or foreign, and drop out of school and/or get pregnant and/or disowned by their families. Those don't sound good gf material to start with, though...
As you could probably testify, things do change moving away from the upper middle class of Metro Manila, Cebu or Davao to the middle class of a smaller town or a rural area, and from middle to lower middle class. I once bumped into a very old (> 60) man from Romania (who could speak perfect Italian) who had settled in Davao and married the daughter of a local Samal politician, the ex-mayor of one of the small villages on the island if I remember well. Surely a nice young, traditional girl from a well-known family, yet not so-well educated (she could hardly speak any English) and - at least to my eyes - not quite the stunner.
I have then met families in Davao who were wealthy enough to pay holiday trips to Las Vegas and Japanese hot springs several times a year, and whose kids had their summer camps in South Korea, Singapore or Canada. Assuming those girls will grow up not only smart and good looking, but with solid principles, they will most probably learn that they have a legacy which needs be preserved, a career that's incompatible with marrying too young and wealth which needs be kept within the family or pooled to that of an even wealthier family. And while all the markers of high status - physical height, fair skin and Chinese or Caucasian looks aren't abundant - there seems to be enough eligible boy and girls among those local elites.
If memory doesn't fail me, you are married to a young and attractive girl who is an Engineering graduate and daughter to an influential family in the town you chose to settle in. All box squarely ticked, basically! I would say she (and your happiness) are a testament to how wisely you played all of your cards as well as, obviously, the great deal of time and dedication you poured into your Pinoy adventure. Now tell me: everything else on your side being equal, would you have managed, indeed would you have wanted, to win the heart of an upper middle class girl from Makati, or central nCebu?
class girl from Makati, or Central Cebu, but that was never my objective. At one time I had opportunity
with a girl from such a family- a girl whose family name is on quite a few street signs, but I began to
suspect that she was just Social- as in the way Filipinos use the term.
>>>>I would far rather have a poor girl with a rich heart than the other way around!!!
Yes, I knew when I first met my bride to be, that she was not poor- the setting, clothing and body language gave her away. What impressed me most about her family is how humble and kind they are
to all of those around, and how well they treated their ya-ya. My wife's father is at this time in Tacloban
helping with relief efforts. He is just that kind of man.
The attitudes of most of those "elites" in Makati and elsewhere are not what I aspire to be
part of. Much of the ruling class in the Philippines is total pond scum. So yes, I may have played my
cards well in this case, I was also lucky and persistent. I have a family history in the Philippines that
has been off and on since 1945.
You are right. The average young American is not well suited to doing well here in terms of meeting and courting a desirable girl. Typically he would not have the faintest clue as to what that even means.
A few have sense about it and I have seen some do well...and usually they somehow have the time to spend. The quick pick bride is a great risk...for both sides.
As to a 40's or older man such as myself being able to swoop in and score an upper middle class girl- that is almost all baloney. In fact, and the odds of any foreigner pulling that off is pretty remote
unless he has long term connections and can take his time. Most of these families are pretty cliquish
as Mguy has observed. I think such aspirations- setting out to score such a society girl, are a waste of time.
Maybe my ramblings have answered your questions....
Outwest
(Chiz Escudero)
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