My Travel to Ukraine

[Winston]

Yeah I'm sure they want money. But looks and personality are a factor too, as well as race. Most of them prefer white guys, even if they don't admit it.

If you are not attractive to them but you have money, they will simply try to get you to hand over money to them without giving you anything in return. If that fails, then it's up to how "doable" they think you are that depends on whether they will whore themselves to you or not.

I've experienced tons of Russian women trying to extract cash and gifts from me, offering me NOTHING in return. That's how shameless they were. Apparently there is no shame in taking there. In the Philippines there's a similar attitude, there is no shame in receiving more and more, but rather a great virtue to receive, and wonderful pleasure as well. But it's not as extreme and heartless as it was in Russia.

[SNS]

I've experienced tons of Russian women trying to extract cash and gifts from me, offering me NOTHING in return. That's how shameless they were. Apparently there is no shame in taking there. In the Philippines there's a similar attitude, there is no shame in receiving more and more, but rather a great virtue to receive, and wonderful pleasure as well. But it's not as extreme and heartless as it was in Russia.

Glad to know it is not my imagination. This plus my other observations previously mentioned in the same post tend to conflict with ladislavs posts. I never got the feeling they found it interesting that I knew a little of their history.

I hope he weighs in here, I'd be interested in his feedback.

[Winston]

I've experienced tons of Russian women trying to extract cash and gifts from me, offering me NOTHING in return. That's how shameless they were. Apparently there is no shame in taking there. In the Philippines there's a similar attitude, there is no shame in receiving more and more, but rather a great virtue to receive, and wonderful pleasure as well. But it's not as extreme and heartless as it was in Russia.

Glad to know it is not my imagination. This plus my other observations previously mentioned in the same post tend to conflict with ladislavs posts. I never got the feeling they found it interesting that I knew a little of their history.

I hope he weighs in here, I'd be interested in his feedback.

You mean they tried to extract money from you too, offering nothing in exchange? Can you describe some of the worst incidents with them where they tried to scam you, use you, or acted shamelessly?

[SNS]

I've experienced tons of Russian women trying to extract cash and gifts from me, offering me NOTHING in return. That's how shameless they were. Apparently there is no shame in taking there. In the Philippines there's a similar attitude, there is no shame in receiving more and more, but rather a great virtue to receive, and wonderful pleasure as well. But it's not as extreme and heartless as it was in Russia.

Glad to know it is not my imagination. This plus my other observations previously mentioned in the same post tend to conflict with ladislavs posts. I never got the feeling they found it interesting that I knew a little of their history.

I hope he weighs in here, I'd be interested in his feedback.

You mean they tried to extract money from you too, offering nothing in exchange? Can you describe some of the worst incidents with them where they tried to scam you, use you, or acted shamelessly?

Well I make it a point to forget individual incidents to prevent myself from having full blown contempt for these bitches. I can't say that I actually had money scammed from me, because I have always proceeded with extreme caution in this part of the world due to the reputation of east european women have. Its just the self entitlement behavior they have just when you think you might have met a decent girl. But one recent thing happened and i am sure it is connected to the current financial crisis. Two years ago I went out with this photographer chick in Kiev. She was OK -- a little to wacky for me, so I essentially left the ball in her court -- told her "Hey give me a call when you have some time and want to get together" and i did not hear from her ever again. Despite chivalry in East euro, if a skank likes you she will call. But out of the blue i get an email from her recently. She gave me her cell phone in the email and I thought she was a journalist I met and had periodically been in contact with. So i was surprised when it turned out to be this chick that i had been out with ONLY ONCE TWO YEARS AGO. translation: She's looking to latch on to someone who has an apartment. This is what my American friend who lives there told me and i am inclined to agree. She was asking me what was new and I told her i am in mexico right now, she was surprised and wanted to have some photos, blah blah-- no big deal since i have a template email with some photos I took, so I sent her off a few landscape shots. But I have not heard from her. I guess she figured i was pretty useless to her since I am in mexico.

Perhaps i am wrong, but it seems that Russian and Ukrainian chicks are good for f***ing and chucking and nothing more it seems. Even the men of Russian and Ukraine feel this way.

[ladislav]

If you were talking about people of color like this, you would be called a racist. But because you are dealing with white people, I guess it is OK.

Imagine some Japanese or Arab guy came to the US could not speak English and had money. What kind of people would he attract? Only the ones who like his money.

You are in the wrong circles because it seems to me that...

1) you do not speak the language- a crucial element in another culture. Think about being in the US and not speaking English. You probably have not read many books about the local culture, either. You are just there on a superficial tour and you think you can win people's hearts and minds and meet quality new people. You may think you can act in a colonial way in...UKRAINE??? Among white Slavic people? Give me a break!
2) you are not hanging out with your intellectual equals . Generally, since it seems that you are looking for superficial f*ck and adventure, you will attract people that are looking for your money. Can you offer anything else?
3) I do not know much about Kiev. Only spent a few days there once. I generally avoid capital cities and go to where culture is genuine. Like smaller towns. Where girls are simple and virginal. Big cities are brutal. Try New York chicks for one. Or LA girls. These will take your money and dinners and drop you like a peace of meat. At least there you will get laid.
Have you been hanging out with poets and musicians there? Theater people? Students studying literature?

[Mr S]

My experience in the Ukraine is that, if you try to get laid fast by lowering your standards and hanging out with 19 year old disco denizens, you will just spend money and get nowhere or nowhere you really want to go.

If, however, you try during daylight hours to meet the classiest, best dressed and smartest of women...as long as you are from their IQ and class level in the US (equivalent) have a buzz cut, decent shoulders and no pot belly...you can do amazingly well. Age will not matter.

Women who hang out at discos often have 2 digit IQs. Half of all people have 2 digit IQs. Avoid them if you are above that.

About buzz cuts...many US males fail to realize that hair longer than half an inch looks really stupid on any male over 35.

Comb overs will get you rejected in a split second in Eastern Europe. Go bald or go buzz cut but don't be seen with hair longer than a half inch. You've been warned.

I have long hair to my shoulders and get compliments on my hair all the time by woman here in the Philippines, I'm 35 but look late 20's. I think how one looks and dresses all depends on how they can carry themselves. Telling every guy to get a buzzcut when he reaches a certain age is a defeatist attitude in my opinion and lashes out as being conformist in nature.

I know and see many guys who have long hair or comb overs and look silly and stupid but they probably never had a proper fashion sense even when they were younger and probably looked just as stupid at 20 years of age as they do at 40 and over.

If you keep yourself in decent shape and have an open-minded attitude and can honestly look yourself in the mirror and understand what you can get away with in regards to fashion or looks, I think one can have any kind of style or look at any age. But yes, most guys when they start pushing their 30's start losing their looks and vitality. If they try to hold onto their youth too long, it often doesn't carry over. I've maintained a healthy lifestyle since my teens and monitor my weight, I look better than many guys in their 20's. If I were to ever start seriously balding or could not maintain my looks physically, I would consider appearing more conservative looking. But right now I can still get away with it and actually many girls prefer it as it's a different look than what most guys sport. A lot of the younger Filipino guys hate me cause I grab a lot of attention, they sometimes will say snide remarks as I pass by. I think those guys know they can't pull off what I can do and want every guy to conform down to their level (typical Filipino thing anyways, conformity).

Maybe Eastern Europe is different but in Asia they tend to admire people who can pull off various looks not typical of the mainstream. You see it all the time in their media, especially in Korea and Japan.

Another positive thing about my hair style too is that many people think I'm a bad ass and no one causes me trouble usually. If I want to look more clean cut I just tie my hair back. So I have multiple look options depending on my mood or environment. I haven' had to worry about discrimination from getting work either as I can prove I have higher educational qualifications, so my looks don't hinder me anymore in that regard. I've actually noticed that sometimes the smarter a person is, the more they experiment with their looks.

Anyways I haven't given in or given up on life yet and don't plan on it anytime soon.

[SNS]

If you were talking about people of color like this, you would be called a racist. But because you are dealing with white people, I guess it is OK.

Respectfully Ladislav I feel that you are entertaining too much political correctness here. I don't like parasitic females this does not make me prejudice. Also, I do speak some Russian so I am not a typical garden variety American who has no knowledge of the language or culture. Ya uchoo Ruski, adnaka choot choot (I hope I said that correctly with English letters). I do have a working knowledge of Ukraine's history, ranging from the controversial debate that early Russia came from Ukraine (Ukraines will say yes whilst Russian will say categorically 'nyet'), and the interesting history of Ukraine during World War II. But my knowledge of Ukraine's history and use of basic Russian does not seem to impress them.

Imagine some Japanese or Arab guy came to the US could not speak English and had money. What kind of people would he attract? Only the ones who like his money.

I would not say 'only' with regards to the USA.

1) you do not speak the language- a crucial element in another culture. Think about being in the US and not speaking English.

Spanish speakers could have a tough time trying to find anyone who speaks their language in the USA (just kidding, and you have a point about the language issue)

You probably have not read many books about the local culture, either. You are just there on a superficial tour and you think you can win people's hearts and minds and meet quality new people.

That assumption about me is incorrect. I do not feel this way whatsoever. This is why I enjoy studying Russian language, though I have much to learn. The Russian language i find is a very complex but also highly articulate language, and can more accurately describe various human emotions better than English. This is just my impression so far of Russian. And I enjoy the history of Ukraine, as i do the history of Russia -- and the famous Russian folks such as Pushkin and others like Rasputin.

This is a generalization, you do not know me, but in all fairness I have not told you everything about me. I have spent time in that country. Trips lasting a few weeks, up to a little over a month. And I have close Ukraine friends. One works in the film industry in Ukraine as a director of photography. He is a very decent guy and I think he is of good moral character. Another Ukraine friend of mine is a doctor who works in the pharmaceutical industry. He is another man I believe is of good character.

You may think you can act in a colonial way in...UKRAINE??? Among white Slavic people? Give me a break!

Again, that is incorrect however I would feel the same way about the average American guy who comes over to that part of the world.

2) you are not hanging out with your intellectual equals . Generally, since it seems that you are looking for superficial f*ck and adventure, you will attract people that are looking for your money.

Again, this is incorrect. Of course i am interested in something beyond the superficial.

Can you offer anything else?

All the things that a decent man can offer a woman. The question is: What can Ukraine women offer me a man who is willing to understand and respect her world, her culture and language as well as her?

3) I do not know much about Kiev. Only spent a few days there once. I generally avoid capital cities and go to where culture is genuine. Like smaller towns. Where girls are simple and virginal. Big cities are brutal. Try New York chicks for one. Or LA girls. These will take your money and dinners and drop you like a peace of meat. At least there you will get laid.

Not looking to get laid as much as finding a decent woman.

Have you been hanging out with poets and musicians there? Theater people? Students studying literature?

I agree with you on this point. My question is how does a foreign man like myself hang out with students? I doubt i can just loiter about a university although I find them beautiful in terms of Architecture. And I'm not some letch looking to get his cock wet. But i agree that it does have something to do with social circles.

[ladislav]

Respectfully Ladislav I feel that you are entertaining too much political correctness here. I don't like parasitic females this does not make me prejudiced. Also, I do speak some Russian

Like what level? Can you have a normal conversation? Like me in Spanish, Japanese and Tagalog? or Thai? Just regular conversation? Can you?

so I am not a typical garden variety American who has no knowledge of the language or culture. Ya uchoo Ruski, adnaka choot choot (I hope I said that correctly with English letters). I do have a working knowledge of Ukraine's history, ranging from the controversial debate that early Russia came from Ukraine (Ukraines will say yes whilst Russian will say categorically 'nyet'), and the interesting history of Ukraine during World War II. But my knowledge of Ukraine's history and use of basic Russian does not seem to impress them.

Hmm, OK. I am really not talking about impressing people. I am talking more about blending in. They are or example not impressed by me telling them that I was born there. They just yawn. Many also treat me like a weirdo. I am not looking for a woman there, either. Basic Russian does not impress them, it is true.

I would not say 'only' with regards to the USA.

Generally, they would be ignored most of the time.

Spanish speakers could have a tough time trying to find anyone who speaks their language in the USA (just kidding, and you have a point about the language issue)

Spanish speakers in the USA are socially marginalized and largely ostracized. That is why they hang out with their own kind.

That assumption about me is incorrect. I do not feel this way whatsoever. This is why I enjoy studying Russian language, though I have much to learn. The Russian language i find is a very complex but also highly articulate language, and can more accurately describe various human emotions better than English. This is just my impression so far of Russian. And I enjoy the history of Ukraine, as i do the history of Russia -- and the famous Russian folks such as Pushkin and others like Rasputin.

Ok, my apologies, I stand corrected. But can you cary on a normal conversation? For example, my Tagalog is now fluent and I can just sit and talk like a Filipino mostly. On just about every topic. Can you do so in the local language?

This is a generalization, you do not know me, but in all fairness I have not told you everything about me. I have spent time in that country. Trips lasting a few weeks, up to a little over a month. And I have close Ukraine friends. One works in the film industry in Ukraine as a director of photography. He is a very decent guy and I think he is of good moral character. Another Ukraine friend of mine is a doctor who works in the pharmaceutical industry. He is another man I believe is of good character

.


That is great! Keep accumulating such friends and they will introduce you to a good girl. That is how you often meet good women- through good friends.

Again, that is incorrect however I would feel the same way about the average American guy who comes over to that part of the world.

My apologies. But that is what you were beginning to sound like.

Again, this is incorrect. Of course i am interested in something beyond the superficial.

I would expand my circle of intellectual friends there and slowly work my way into their soceity. Do keep in mind where the country is now. It has been abandoned by most other countries including Russia, it is being ravaged by selfish politicians, there is total chaos going on. It has been independent for 17 years only. It is tough for it. Think Wild West. It will take time for people to stabilize, for the country to stabilize. Would you be willing to contribute something to it? Do something there? Help out? Instead of thinking what you can get out of someone else's bad situation?

You thought of teaching English there? You can meet many young professionals that way.

Ukraine is not an open soceity. Russia is much more open and inclusive. Ukraine is mistrustful. I know, I was born there. It takes time to meet people there.

Do not think what that country can do for you, think what you can do for that country! You know how karma works, right? The environment will feel that you are trying to put something positive in and it will respond likewise.

All the things that a decent man can offer a woman. The question is: What can Ukraine women offer me a man who is willing to understand and respect her world, her culture and language as well as her?

Everything that a woman can offer, I guess. But it will take time to find her and develop a relationship. You will need to court her for some time. Most decent women will tell you "No" the first time. The ones that make beelines for foreigners are usually the ones with agendas. Local people court girls slowly. But also keep in mind the volatile situation there. Times are not normal there now. Do not take advantage of the bad situation in a selfish way.

Think about the guy who gives rides in a car in exchange for blowjobs. (That is what he will be doing in his next life. Giving blowjobs in a whorehouse).

Is this the kind of foreigner that the country needs when it goes through hard times? Are you willing to do something socially productive there? I am a firm believer that a man on a selfish quest often meets other selfish people who are on their own selfish quest.

Not looking to get laid as much as finding a decent woman.

Gonna take time. How about attending some parties with your friends? It is not easy in Ukraine to meet good women, you know. Even for me, I need to take time. Get a lot of advice from local guys and see how they can help you out. Networking is everything there. People there do not trust strangers that much.

I agree with you on this point. My question is how does a foreign man like myself hang out with students? I doubt i can just loiter about a university although I find them beautiful in terms of Architecture. And I'm not some letch looking to get his cock wet. But i agree that it does have something to do with social circles

Ah, this is going to take time. Get a job teaching English there? I can PM you some names/ addresses. You will have to hang out there and do things on local terms and throw away your Western schedule. Introductions. Friend of a friend. Parties. But sometimes just talking with lots and lots of ( decent) people and even blind luck. You will just need to go there and spend three months at a time, talk, go out with a lot of people, attend events. Expose yourself to many many people, filter out the bad apples, concentrate on a few good ones. It is not going to happen on your schedule! It is going to happen naturally. Above all, think about what you can offer their soceity and how you can help out at this difficult time when the country is grappled by sheer agony of independence and being rejected by the whole world. This is the time when they need a helping hand, guidance, etc. You will see how things will change when you go there with a different attitude. Coupled with common sense, of course.

Thank you for polite and cool responses to my posts.

[SNS]

Ah, this is going to take time. Get a job teaching English there? I can PM you some names/ addresses. You will have to hang out there and do things on local terms and throw away your Western schedule. Introductions. Friend of a friend. Parties. But sometimes just talking with lots and lots of ( decent) people and even blind luck. You will just need to go there and spend three months at a time, talk, go out with a lot of people, attend events. Expose yourself to many many people, filter out the bad apples, concentrate on a few good ones. It is not going to happen on your schedule! It is going to happen naturally. Above all, think about what you can offer their soceity and how you can help out at this difficult time when the country is grappled by sheer agony of independence and being rejected by the whole world. This is the time when they need a helping hand, guidance, etc. You will see how things will change when you go there with a different attitude. Coupled with common sense, of course.

Thank you for polite and cool responses to my posts.

No thank you ladislav for your thoughts. Yes I am inclined to agree that it will take a few months without interruption i.e. not stepping away from Ukraine. best to take the full three months there.

As you mentioned that the locals are not impressed by only basic use of the language, so I need to really buckle down and get busy on the language. Perhaps if I can swing it I could look into a language school there and do an intensive 3 month study. It might be a good idea.

I will opt to study Russian instead of Ukrainian, as Russian i can use in Russia too.

But perhaps in the final analysis that I am simply at too many wrong places at the wrong times.

[ladislav]

I spent my late teens in Ukraine. The people there are mistrustful and proud. In Russia, they are kind of naive, intellectual and they like open groups. Ukraine is a realy different society. Practical, taciturn. It takes time to fit in there and to get to know people. But at the same time, it is a very very free country where you can do many things you cannot even do in Russia. You will need to go there and 'live yourself into' the local society. Slowly. Remember, it is a European country. They will not treat a person of another European decent as anything different. You will either have to go about doing things on their terms or you can go the mail bride route and take on big risks.
But life is complex. My advice here may mean nothing if your karma is to meet someone good through the m.o.b. route.
Please read my article on "Bespredel" and understand the meaning of it. Can you hack it?
That country is not for the faint hearted. Just like the Wild West was not for cowards and city slickers. It had its laws.
Here is what I was told just now when I went there- " People here are wild. They hear you have an accent and they say- "Oh, he is not one of us" and they give you all kinds of looks". And I was born there! Means jack sh*t!
So, you know what else? You need to love the country very much inspite of all the shortcomings and then people will feel it. I know one American guy who lives there and he adores it. The people love him too. He had a big wedding there and now he will be living there permanently. He accepted that wild wild land. Warts and all. You should, too.

Let me give you this example. I was now in Odessa and there were some country girls at the stores I went to. When they saw me at first, they were pouting and lowering their eyes. I started talking and calling them "Young Lady" and speaking in ornate terms. Smiling and all. Then I got very friendly in an elegant way- talking and smiling and telling them what great products they had and complimenting on this and that. The grim faces lit up, smiles began to bloom. I asked them- "Do you find my behavior strange!" Again, the faces lit up- "No. I like very much how you behave yourself" Next time I went there, they were all smiles and flirting and making googie eyes at me. I melted their hearts.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is- are you presentable enough and can you offer fun times to those people? How about some karaoke night? A boat tour? I found girls there like boats and water. They also LOVE guys that can play the guitar and sing.

For some reason, you chose Ukraine. It is a difficult country. I know. I personally find Russia to be so much easier to find girls in.

But again, I want to repeat one thing- think about what you can do for that country- not just what you can take out of it.

Have you thought about joining the Greek Catholic Church in the West or the Ukrainian Orthodox in the East and becoming a religious man there? I saw so many church ladies there in kerchiefs. These behave OK.

About the language, great step! Study Russian first. In Ukraine, half the people cannot speak Ukrainian properly. But still study some. Also get books on culture and etiquette, read up on what to do and what not to do.

Think about how proud and adamant Americans are when dealing with foreigners- This is America! We do things the American way!

It is kind of the same there.

Anyway, good luck and godspeed!

[have2fly]

Ladislav, I have to admit - amazing posts and material. Very mature, however some things are a bit "Western" that you write. Some things that you look into are not that "deep" and actually much easier to explain. I can't exactly say which because you analyze different kinds of things that I don't really look at. Although I agree with 98% of what you write, I am more "fresh of the boat" and have no accent in Russian or Ukrainian, since I haven't lived in USA that long.

Ukraine is a tough place to live in, but I would consider doing it to have fun and eventually find that special girl to get married. Guys have to understand that if they are looking for a wife, who is not a slut or stupid naive light-headed blonde, they have to live in Ukraine for at least a few months to understand culture, to see and date the girl (girls) they like and then make a decision. Teaching English is perfect because it will expose you to people, communication, will allow you to make friends and sustain your income.

However, I would NOT suggest bringing your wife to the USA. I don't feel that I will be happy living in a "creeped" society and when I explain all of social problems to my Ukrainian wife, she will not like it either (if she is smart and decent and educated of course). Ukrainian girls believe America is a land of rich people that are open and make friends everywhere, mingle like Ukrainians on the streets etc. If only they could know the truth!

[YoucancallmeAl]

About buzz cuts...many US males fail to realize that hair longer than half an inch looks really stupid on any male over 35.

Go bald or go buzz cut but don't be seen with hair longer than a half inch. You've been warned.

Uh, no.
All those over-35 rock stars with long hair getting laid by 19-yr old groupies right and left don't seem to be having any problems. And objectively I think a lot of them look pretty damn cool.
For example, I just saw a commercial on TV with 42-yr old country star Keith Urban, who looks like this:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... atf1PyqkYg
I'm no fan of his music, but he looks pretty f***ing cool, particularly considering that the average American his age looks like a fat, disgusting slob with no fashion sense. And he gets to bang Nicole Kidman every night.
Now you may argue that he can only get away with it because he's famous. But I would bet that even a non-famous 42-yr old who looked that cool would have no problem picking up hot 20-something girls, regardless of what country they were in.

Personally, I have a lot of respect for older guys who can pull off a hip edgy look. All I know is that when I get old (I'm 41 now) I sure as hell don't want to look like the typical fat, balding, poorly-dressed slob that people are used to seeing at that age. I want to be the cool bad-ass grandpa. The one with a little more creativity than just a standard stereotypical boring lame buzz cut.

So can you give me any evidence to support your theory that over-35 men with hair longer than a half inch are shunned by foreign women???