I agree that almost everyone is enslaved but there are different levels of slavery. Sort of like the slaves that were doing hard labor and abused and the slaves that worked in castles of fair masters. Sometimes slaves had the opportunity to earn freedom.expatasiaseeker wrote:f**k fighting for ANY f***ing military. They are all terrorists.
What is the point of fighting for any government? You've already lost if you are willing to kill IN THE NAME OF YOUR GOVERNMENT. All governments are created by the satanic elite to enslave the population. If the elite were actually serious about helping people, they would disband the government and let people govern themselves.
By serving a government, you are admitting to them you are their slave and you deserve to be treated like a slave.
20 Reasons Not to Join the Military: Why it's foolish
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Tsar
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Contrarian and Zboy,
You are right that serving in the military gets you benefits and helps to discipline you. But that doesn't prove that the 20 points I made in the article are wrong or untrue. Can you logically prove that they are wrong or untrue? If not, how do you deal with them? If you read them, you have to admit that they are good logical sensible points.
You talk about having experience in the military making you qualified to talk about it. That may be true. But you don't have to experience something obviously bad to know that it is bad.
Furthermore, General Dwight D. Eisenhower had more experience in the military than you can ever imagine. Yet look what he said:
"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
So you see, the most experienced US military general agrees with me, not you.
Here are some new parts I added to the article:
"It would be one thing if the US military were only used for national defense, as with the National Guard. But when it's used for unnecessary invasions of other countries, and the murder of many innocent people, all for the interests of the elite oligarchy and their cabals, that's where it becomes a bad thing, as well as wrong and evil. So if you are just joining to serve your country, or for the benefits, you should just join the National Guard.
What's ridiculous is that if a private citizen committed murder, he/she would go to jail or get the death penalty. But if the government murders thousands or millions of innocent people, then no one responsible goes to jail or receives capital punishment for murdering thousands. This is based on the principle that government = justice, so anything it does (including murdering many innocent people for profit and conquest) must be right and moral, since might makes right. Really stupid."
You are right that serving in the military gets you benefits and helps to discipline you. But that doesn't prove that the 20 points I made in the article are wrong or untrue. Can you logically prove that they are wrong or untrue? If not, how do you deal with them? If you read them, you have to admit that they are good logical sensible points.
You talk about having experience in the military making you qualified to talk about it. That may be true. But you don't have to experience something obviously bad to know that it is bad.
Furthermore, General Dwight D. Eisenhower had more experience in the military than you can ever imagine. Yet look what he said:
"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
"We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
So you see, the most experienced US military general agrees with me, not you.
Here are some new parts I added to the article:
"It would be one thing if the US military were only used for national defense, as with the National Guard. But when it's used for unnecessary invasions of other countries, and the murder of many innocent people, all for the interests of the elite oligarchy and their cabals, that's where it becomes a bad thing, as well as wrong and evil. So if you are just joining to serve your country, or for the benefits, you should just join the National Guard.
What's ridiculous is that if a private citizen committed murder, he/she would go to jail or get the death penalty. But if the government murders thousands or millions of innocent people, then no one responsible goes to jail or receives capital punishment for murdering thousands. This is based on the principle that government = justice, so anything it does (including murdering many innocent people for profit and conquest) must be right and moral, since might makes right. Really stupid."
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Check out these great 100 anti-war quotes. Please spread them around.
http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2010/0 ... uotes.html
Here are my favorite ones by America's Founding Fathers:
2. "The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." -James Madison
3. "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison
4. "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. " -James Madison
5. "Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other." -James Madison
6. "The executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring war." -James Madison
7. "It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." -James Madison
10. "The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." -Thomas Jefferson
11. "Governments constantly choose between telling lies and fighting wars, with the end result always being the same. One will always lead to the other." -Thomas Jefferson
12. "I abhor war and view it as the greatest scourge of mankind." -Thomas Jefferson
14. "If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest." -Thomas Jefferson
15. "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government." -Thomas Jefferson
16. "War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses." -Thomas Jefferson
17. "A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit." -Thomas Jefferson
19. "War...is as much a punishment to the punisher as to the sufferer." -Thomas Jefferson
20. "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." -Thomas Jefferson
21. "Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." -George Washington
29. "A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang as when single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang." -Benjamin Franklin
34. "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
35. "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war." -John Adams
Great anti-war quotes by Ronald Reagan:
37. "A people free to choose will always choose peace." -Ronald Reagan
40. "Peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means." -Ronald Reagan
41. "...no mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology." -Ronald Reagan
42. "People do not make wars; governments do." -Ronald Reagan
Anti-war quotes by Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of the most experienced US military generals and former US President.
44. "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
47. "We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
48. "Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
51. "There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
52. "We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
More great anti-war quotes:
58. "Do not ever say that the desire to 'do good' by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives." -Ayn Rand
60. "All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it." -Alexis de Tocqueville
63. "War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it." -George Orwell
68. "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." -George Orwell
70. "What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood." -Aldous Huxley
73. "In all history there is no war which was not hatched by the governments, the governments alone, independent of the interests of the people, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful." -Leo Tolstoy
http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2010/0 ... uotes.html
Here are my favorite ones by America's Founding Fathers:
2. "The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." -James Madison
3. "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison
4. "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. " -James Madison
5. "Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other." -James Madison
6. "The executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring war." -James Madison
7. "It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." -James Madison
10. "The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." -Thomas Jefferson
11. "Governments constantly choose between telling lies and fighting wars, with the end result always being the same. One will always lead to the other." -Thomas Jefferson
12. "I abhor war and view it as the greatest scourge of mankind." -Thomas Jefferson
14. "If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest." -Thomas Jefferson
15. "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government." -Thomas Jefferson
16. "War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses." -Thomas Jefferson
17. "A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit." -Thomas Jefferson
19. "War...is as much a punishment to the punisher as to the sufferer." -Thomas Jefferson
20. "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." -Thomas Jefferson
21. "Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." -George Washington
29. "A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang as when single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang." -Benjamin Franklin
34. "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
35. "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war." -John Adams
Great anti-war quotes by Ronald Reagan:
37. "A people free to choose will always choose peace." -Ronald Reagan
40. "Peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means." -Ronald Reagan
41. "...no mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology." -Ronald Reagan
42. "People do not make wars; governments do." -Ronald Reagan
Anti-war quotes by Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of the most experienced US military generals and former US President.
44. "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
47. "We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
48. "Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
51. "There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
52. "We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
More great anti-war quotes:
58. "Do not ever say that the desire to 'do good' by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives." -Ayn Rand
60. "All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it." -Alexis de Tocqueville
63. "War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it." -George Orwell
68. "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." -George Orwell
70. "What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood." -Aldous Huxley
73. "In all history there is no war which was not hatched by the governments, the governments alone, independent of the interests of the people, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful." -Leo Tolstoy
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Check out this hot woman on Russia Today explaining why you should not enlist in the military.
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This 100 times this!celery2010 wrote:winston, i used to think the same way until i found out how many real benefits the military provides. When i was younger it was a lot of young guys who didn't know what to do i life that joined, but:
1. The biggest benefit: They get have pay after 20 years of service and i think like 66% or something after 30 years of service. In other words they can join at 18 and retire at 38. Imagine getting 50K a year for doing nothing.
2. Free health and get everything for a discount at the PX.
3. Free travel. Get to go around the world while working.
4. Money for college for the people who can't afford it.
5. Preference in hiring for government jobs.
6. With the Iraq/Afghan boom, lots of defense types made 200K plus. That's good money by any standard.
7. There are people who are more skilled in the military, like engineers, air force etc. Also lots of technologies that come from the defense industry.
In other words, a lot more benefits than you would think. The U.S. government makes it that way. It's really red America's big welfare program.
I wish I had went to the Air Force myself all the time. I would be so much better off in my career if I had gone. My mother begged me not to join any branch and that's why I never went.
Check out this book by a mom whose son was killed in Iraq called "10 Excellent Reasons Not to Join the Military":
http://www.10reasonsbook.com
I'l email her and ask if she wants to link my article.
I've also posted this 20 reasons article in my blog at:
http://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/07/2 ... y-its.html
http://www.10reasonsbook.com
I'l email her and ask if she wants to link my article.
I've also posted this 20 reasons article in my blog at:
http://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/07/2 ... y-its.html
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!
Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!
"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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Repatriate
- Veteran Poster
- Posts: 2533
- Joined: June 15th, 2008, 11:39 am
America war and military propaganda is strong though. Americans idolize the military. Even when the reasons are stupid like the last few wars people generally support the soldiers. This means that young men see the military as a way to raise their status too. They can be heroes and shit just like in the movies when the reality is they'll just get their legs blown off and end up on government welfare for the rest of their lives while woman avoid them like the plague.
There are a lot of people who go through it and don't have anything bad happen to them but they usually joined some job that had them way beyond harm's way.
The only time I feel that it's necessary is when there is a real existential threat to America. WW2, the first gulf war, and maybe the Korean war was a pretty good reason but since then it's been mostly bullshit concocted by greedy old white men.
There are a lot of people who go through it and don't have anything bad happen to them but they usually joined some job that had them way beyond harm's way.
The only time I feel that it's necessary is when there is a real existential threat to America. WW2, the first gulf war, and maybe the Korean war was a pretty good reason but since then it's been mostly bullshit concocted by greedy old white men.
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Moretorque
- Elite Upper Class Poster
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- Joined: April 28th, 2013, 7:00 am
Like I have stated over and over and over, it's easy to access your real history now with the net and the Elite who have built the standing armies in America are aware people do not educate themselves and would rather imitate and follow rather than set a example and lead.
In the US there are supposed to be no standing armies and the militia is supposed to be the army to protect against both enemies foreign and domestic. All the standing armies here are just extensions of the British Empire here in the US. You can't build a army this big on a small Island you know so they captured our power centers and used them and the people to build the super military complexes here where there is plenty of land area and fresh bodies to support the move for world domination.
When the country went bankrupt in the great depression and was taken over by the counting houses of Europe and mainly England that is when they were ready to start building the huge military industrial complex here, all the agencies of police and military power that came after the bankruptcy are not part of America but rather part of the counting houses system of further extending their bid for total world domination.
People have no idea because of how stupid they are that they are joining the forces that our forefathers fought to get free from over 200 hundred years ago when they sign up for active military service.
In the US there are supposed to be no standing armies and the militia is supposed to be the army to protect against both enemies foreign and domestic. All the standing armies here are just extensions of the British Empire here in the US. You can't build a army this big on a small Island you know so they captured our power centers and used them and the people to build the super military complexes here where there is plenty of land area and fresh bodies to support the move for world domination.
When the country went bankrupt in the great depression and was taken over by the counting houses of Europe and mainly England that is when they were ready to start building the huge military industrial complex here, all the agencies of police and military power that came after the bankruptcy are not part of America but rather part of the counting houses system of further extending their bid for total world domination.
People have no idea because of how stupid they are that they are joining the forces that our forefathers fought to get free from over 200 hundred years ago when they sign up for active military service.
Time to Hide!
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Sauromancer
- Freshman Poster
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Hi guys,
I agree with most arguments against military brought up in this discussion. However, explanations offered for why young men join military aren't entirely correct. Sure, some guys enlist because they generally feel lost, without perspective, or because they have been brought up in conservative families that idealize patriotism and "serving your country". But these are not the main reasons in most cases.
First, I think you need to accept that it is in the nature of men to be aggressive, thrill seeking, adventurous and in constant need to test their limits. Men are interested in combat, in weapons, tactics, in warrior skills, and as young boys, most have fantasized about being skilled soldiers or some other types of warrior, fighting for a good cause, against "bad guys". Fighting, killing, revenge, bringing justice, have always been and still are the key concepts in literature and art. Today, no tv show or a movie can gain any significant number of viewers and fans without being about some type of fighting, conflict, warfare. Just look which are the most popular tv shows.
In all cultures, from the most primitive to the most advanced, men have always been fascinated with fighting and weapons. In hunter-gatherer societies, young boys enjoyed hunting with bows and arrows. Today, when boys have opportunity to spend some time outdoors, the first thing they will make will be sharpened sticks, or bows and arrows. Kids in cities, on the other hand, enjoy playing war games, and reading encyclopedias about modern arms. Now we have Airsoft, a military simulation game similar to paintball, but with greater focus on realism, that is becoming extremely popular all over the world. Guys enjoy learning about different types of firearms, about tactics, and all military equipment. Special forces like SEALS, Marines, SAS, Spetnatz, etc. are symbols of toughness and masculinity everywhere, and their members are admired almost as if they were superheroes.
Brutal training, pain, discipline and hardships that soldiers endure are considered extremely satisfying among those that are mentally and physically fit for it. Just like in martial arts, or lifting weights. If you really think about it, bodybuilding is pure pain, so why so many guys enjoy it and swear they couldn't live without that intense burning sensation in their muscles? Obviously, pain and pleasure often come together.
Soldiers are well aware that they might die, that they might get severely injured or crippled, but they are hooked on adrenalin, they yearn for combat, they love their guns, they enjoy shooting. It's the way of life they chose, they simply don't dream of lying on the beach and drinking cocktails. They want warrior lifestyle, they want to test their limits of strength, endurance, courage and fighting ability. Do they believe they are doing the right thing?
Of course, and they are. An individual soldier doesn't care about the "big picture", about the political/economic reasons of warfare, he simply needs to know that his enemies are bad guys, and then he is happy to shoot them.
I tend to sympathize with military guys. Are they killing innocent people? Definitely not on purpose, and most are decent guys who believe their duty is to protect civilians, the innocents. Are their targets freedom fighters, or just obedient soldiers like in 20th century World Wars? NO, they are murderers and terrorists whose idea of "freedom" is "freedom to take other's freedom" - oppressive, religious state that stones women to death and hangs 13 year old girls from cranes in the form of a public spectacle.
I agree with most arguments against military brought up in this discussion. However, explanations offered for why young men join military aren't entirely correct. Sure, some guys enlist because they generally feel lost, without perspective, or because they have been brought up in conservative families that idealize patriotism and "serving your country". But these are not the main reasons in most cases.
First, I think you need to accept that it is in the nature of men to be aggressive, thrill seeking, adventurous and in constant need to test their limits. Men are interested in combat, in weapons, tactics, in warrior skills, and as young boys, most have fantasized about being skilled soldiers or some other types of warrior, fighting for a good cause, against "bad guys". Fighting, killing, revenge, bringing justice, have always been and still are the key concepts in literature and art. Today, no tv show or a movie can gain any significant number of viewers and fans without being about some type of fighting, conflict, warfare. Just look which are the most popular tv shows.
In all cultures, from the most primitive to the most advanced, men have always been fascinated with fighting and weapons. In hunter-gatherer societies, young boys enjoyed hunting with bows and arrows. Today, when boys have opportunity to spend some time outdoors, the first thing they will make will be sharpened sticks, or bows and arrows. Kids in cities, on the other hand, enjoy playing war games, and reading encyclopedias about modern arms. Now we have Airsoft, a military simulation game similar to paintball, but with greater focus on realism, that is becoming extremely popular all over the world. Guys enjoy learning about different types of firearms, about tactics, and all military equipment. Special forces like SEALS, Marines, SAS, Spetnatz, etc. are symbols of toughness and masculinity everywhere, and their members are admired almost as if they were superheroes.
Brutal training, pain, discipline and hardships that soldiers endure are considered extremely satisfying among those that are mentally and physically fit for it. Just like in martial arts, or lifting weights. If you really think about it, bodybuilding is pure pain, so why so many guys enjoy it and swear they couldn't live without that intense burning sensation in their muscles? Obviously, pain and pleasure often come together.
Soldiers are well aware that they might die, that they might get severely injured or crippled, but they are hooked on adrenalin, they yearn for combat, they love their guns, they enjoy shooting. It's the way of life they chose, they simply don't dream of lying on the beach and drinking cocktails. They want warrior lifestyle, they want to test their limits of strength, endurance, courage and fighting ability. Do they believe they are doing the right thing?
Of course, and they are. An individual soldier doesn't care about the "big picture", about the political/economic reasons of warfare, he simply needs to know that his enemies are bad guys, and then he is happy to shoot them.
I tend to sympathize with military guys. Are they killing innocent people? Definitely not on purpose, and most are decent guys who believe their duty is to protect civilians, the innocents. Are their targets freedom fighters, or just obedient soldiers like in 20th century World Wars? NO, they are murderers and terrorists whose idea of "freedom" is "freedom to take other's freedom" - oppressive, religious state that stones women to death and hangs 13 year old girls from cranes in the form of a public spectacle.
Sauromancer,
Good point. I've heard it said that some people are soldiers by blood, meaning that it's in their blood to be soldiers. And that's the real reason they join, not for money, career or patriotism. They say that you've got to have "soldier's blood" to understand them. That does make some sense.
Good point. I've heard it said that some people are soldiers by blood, meaning that it's in their blood to be soldiers. And that's the real reason they join, not for money, career or patriotism. They say that you've got to have "soldier's blood" to understand them. That does make some sense.
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Hey check this out. That anti-military article I wrote in my blog a while ago caused quite a stir. There are 70 comments in it now. A lot of people serving in the military, and some veterans as well, posted angry comments in it. They spouted the typical drivel they were brainwashed with, such as "This article is an insult to those who served our country and fought to defend your freedoms and your right to post these things on the internet..." blah blah blah, which is illogical, nonsensical and false. I already explained in logical detail why joining the military is not serving your country and why it doesn't defend freedom at all. It couldn't be more clear. Yet they don't get it. Those who spout that are merely chanting a religion, not fact or logic.
It's like they are merely repeating a programmed loop in their head without really reading my article, which already debunks everything they said. Check out the comments, and feel free to participate and enlighten those who still don't get it.
20 Reasons Not to Join the Military: Why it's foolish, illogical and doesn't serve your country
http://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/07/2 ... y-its.html
It's like they are merely repeating a programmed loop in their head without really reading my article, which already debunks everything they said. Check out the comments, and feel free to participate and enlighten those who still don't get it.
20 Reasons Not to Join the Military: Why it's foolish, illogical and doesn't serve your country
http://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/07/2 ... y-its.html
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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Ghost wrote:Which raises the question: if they fought to defend your freedom to write things like that, then why is it a problem if you actually do? What's the point of fighting for freedom if you can't use the freedom being fought for?
They are not defending freedom of course, but from their perspective, they should have to answer the above argument.
Of course this is correct. f**k them, they get paid twice per month. I was an officer in the US Marine Corps, 7 years on active duty. I never heard one guy say "I am doing this to protect my country / freedom / democratic way of life."
That is just self-righteous bullshit spouted by people who don't know better. The poster above (Sauromancer) is getting to the core of it. The military provides a rite of passage, danger, and adventure for young men who are into that stuff. The typical HA guy gets all of that that he needs by playing video games.
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