The Traditional Marriage Age

[Jester]

I need someone to teach me Russian. I would probably be able to afford maybe one, two lessons at most.

It appears (from another thread) that Teal Lantern is studying Russian (or as he hints, Bulgarian). Do you suppose three (or more) of us could form a Skype class and secure a good (and affordable) teacher? Perhaps one of Ladislav's English students from Russia?

[publicduende]

I am not projecting my dream into US or Western society. I wouldn't ever want to be with any Western girl even if she was both a perfect 10/10 and the last girl on the planet. It's foreign-girls-only for me. I'm mainly attracted to the Eastern European women.

I was putting Eastern European women into the same camp as Western. You may end up in some remote countryside village of one of the -stans to find a girl who stands the kind of requirements you have. And even that window of opportunity is closing fast. And even if successful, the language/culture barrier would be immense. You're certainly not maximising your chances. To reiterate: much better for you to open up to the ways of the world and compromise. That, or you will end up alone for life.

I plan on getting my hands dirty and getting what I want even if that means doing something outright illegal. Assuming all the "good" and "legal" options are ultimately exhausted, then I would resort to the "darker" options of getting what I want.

And that, sir, is exactly what I meant when advising you to open up and compromise before your naive yet somewhat legit dreams completely rots into something dark, illegal, stupid and outright dangerous. You really don't want to end up in jail with one of society's most defaming brands, do you?

I already know that if I was ever forced to "settle" for a girl that engaged in fornication I would not kiss her, not give her expensive gifts, never marry her, and she would be nothing more than "friend with benefits." I would not even commit to her. I would not go out of my way to do anything for her. I would not give her most gifts. I wouldn't even take her on trips or many nice dates. I wouldn't even want to have any pictures of me and her. I would resent such a relationship and I would feel disgusted with myself for even swallowing my pride and being weak. That is why I would never ever be able to be with a fornicator. I would not be able to respect her or even have any enthusiasm about showing her any affection or have any desire to support her. I would feel disgusted for being with a girl that was much less than what I need. Compromising for love is one thing and natural, but compromising one's values for love only destroys oneself and leads to brokenness. Pride and honor are greater than love. In the past when adultery (this includes fornication) was a crime, fornicator girls and adulterous wives could be put to death. This was to preserve a family's honor and the pride of their House. It was shameful to have a fornicator wife or to have a daughter that was known as the village harlot or a whore in the city. Today the parents and husbands high-five promiscuous girls and treat them like they were princesses. Such girls aren't princesses. They are succubus. Succubi can never be princesses. Everyone needs dignity. Dignity is the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect. I would not be worthy of honor or command great respect if I was second. The Bushido Code specifies the point of "honor unto death." I want my honor more than I want to have love or to be loved. I'd rather be honorable and alone or honorable and feared, rather than dishonorable and loved.

Exactly. If you really feel you can't and you won't compromise with a society that further departs from your ideal(ised) concept of a virtuous girl as time goes by, keep your honour and don't do anything stupid.

My pure dreams won't ever rot. I won't ever let go of my dreams. The only thing that has happened to me and will continue is that I become a much darker person. My heart might become much darker and much colder but my dreams will remain constant.

For how sad it is to hear that, once again, my only hope is that your darker, colder heart will not push you to extreme acts that can put you in trouble. I think at some point you'll just wisen up, find a job and realise that adapting to at least some of the diktat of modern society isn't as dishonourable as you think.

Anchoring yourself to the customs of societies of times past is useless. You are living in the present, and your actions are to be planned and have consequences in the future.

[Hero]

Courtship would begin with one man when she was usually 15-17, no kissing, man would kiss her hand, and there was no fornication

I like the idea of marrying a virgin, but not a girl who won't even kiss me. If a girl won't let me kiss her on the mouth by the third date, I give her the boot. There is a happy medium between prudishness and sluttiness.

[publicduende]

Courtship would begin with one man when she was usually 15-17, no kissing, man would kiss her hand, and there was no fornication

I like the idea of marrying a virgin, but not a girl who won't even kiss me. If a girl won't let me kiss her on the mouth by the third date, I give her the boot. There is a happy medium between prudishness and sluttiness.

This pretty much epitomises the deluded, distorted view some of you seem to hold: whore with me, virgin with everybody else. Doesn't it sound a tod contradictory, to yearn for a girl who is as virtuous as you can possibly imagine, yet kisses you by the third date and - then what? - has sex with you by the fifth or sixth. Wouldn't it be better to just admit that such a girl will never exist, at least not in mainstream Western societies?

[Hero]

This pretty much epitomises the deluded, distorted view some of you seem to hold: whore with me, virgin with everybody else. Doesn't it sound a tod contradictory, to yearn for a girl who is as virtuous as you can possibly imagine, yet kisses you by the third date and - then what? - has sex with you by the fifth or sixth. Wouldn't it be better to just admit that such a girl will never exist, at least not in mainstream Western societies?

Whoa! You think that kissing on the third date is whorish behavior? You have some serious hang-ups, dude.

If girls who don't meet minimum standards of decency don't exist, then it's better not to get married.

[publicduende]

This pretty much epitomises the deluded, distorted view some of you seem to hold: whore with me, virgin with everybody else. Doesn't it sound a tod contradictory, to yearn for a girl who is as virtuous as you can possibly imagine, yet kisses you by the third date and - then what? - has sex with you by the fifth or sixth. Wouldn't it be better to just admit that such a girl will never exist, at least not in mainstream Western societies?

Whoa! You think that kissing on the third date is whorish behavior? You have some serious hang-ups, dude.

If girls who don't meet minimum standards of decency don't exist, then it's better not to get married.

Exactly, mine was a provocation. Where does one exactly set the "happy medium between prudishness and sluttiness"? According to Tsar, a girl would have to be a complete virgin and untouched until marriage. You are obviously more open to compromise, as it should be.

All in all, my opinion is that one doesn't judge a girl a whore just because she has "fornicated" (= had one or two boyfriends) before. Life is what happens while we're busy making other plans, said John Lennon. If this applies to our lives, even more so it applies to others people's lives.

[Hero]

Life is what happens while we're busy making other plans, said John Lennon. If this applies to our lives, even more so it applies to others people's lives.

Here's a Lennon quote that describes my life perfectly:

"Nobody told me there'd be days like these.
Strange days, indeed"

[droid]

my opinion is that one doesn't judge a girl a whore just because she has "fornicated" (= had one or two boyfriends) before.

Yeah but you're too comfortable at the other end of the spectrum. My "happy medium" is that i'd just prefer to not even know.

I could be wrong but you might be one of those guys comfortable hearing her past stories. *"honey, he pleased/displeased you in this or that way? maybe if you show me I could be just as good/better than him" kind of stuff. Appalling.
Some guys don't even mind knowing or being acquaintances of the past "johns", and let their wives invite that other family over for dinner, f*ucking idiotic.

Like I said, I just rather not know one bit. The moment you know, you do lose some honor, Tsar's right on that.
I'm usually open minded and don't mind sluts/whores, but when it comes to marriage, I think you do have to preserve some honor for yourself; at the very least, having a higher notch count. Otherwise you're not the man in the relationship, sorry.

[publicduende]

my opinion is that one doesn't judge a girl a whore just because she has "fornicated" (= had one or two boyfriends) before.

Yeah but you're too comfortable at the other end of the spectrum. My "happy medium" is that i'd just prefer to not even know.

I could be wrong but you might be one of those guys comfortable hearing her past stories. *"honey, he pleased/displeased you in this or that way? maybe if you show me I could be just as good/better than him" kind of stuff. Appalling.
Some guys don't even mind knowing or being acquaintances of the past "johns", and let their wives invite that other family over for dinner, f*ucking idiotic.

Like I said, I just rather not know one bit. The moment you know, you do lose some honor, Tsar's right on that.
I'm usually open minded and don't mind sluts/whores, but when it comes to marriage, I think you do have to preserve some honor for yourself; at the very least, having a higher notch count. Otherwise you're not the man in the relationship, sorry.

Hmm...do you mean "not know" or "not care"? The moment you start a relationship with a girl that's worth its salt, sooner rather than later stories and anecdotes about her past boyfriends (or husbands) will necessarily come up. And as far as I can see, women are just as inquisitive about your past relationships, if not more. I don't see anything bad or disqualifying in that.

I agree with you though, if a guy wants to know about his partner's past because he has an obsession about being bigger and better than the others, that's beyond idiotic, as well as completely useless: if she's with you, it's precisely because she's 100% over the other guys, or giving a serious shot about forgetting the previous one.

The matter of exes being invited to dinner entirely depends who they were. It's not uncommon for girls to have relationships with two guys within the same social circle, so going out as friends may well involve being side by side with one of her exes. It could be embarassing at times, but if the breakup hadn't been particularly nasty and no grudges are born, it's not such an unbearable problem.

This is one of the silly stereotypes you guys keep on nurturing. So if the man has a "higher notch count" than the girl, then the relationship is automatically healthier and more balanced? If she had a few boyfriends before, then she's a whore because her previous relationships could be construed as a hyperactive sexual life. Unlike what Tsar likes to think, adults entering adult relationship have a baggage of personal experiences. Some of those experiences might give a positive boost to the relationship at hand (think of how well a girl who knows how to please a man can please YOU), some others might get in the way - fears and minor traumas, etc.

This "honour" matter sounds a little naive to me, sorry. If I hooked up with a new girl, I would spend the overwhelming majority of my time understanding how she fits with me, rather than worrying how she fitted with her exes or how much better or worse I am compared to them.

[droid]

I plan on getting my hands dirty and getting what I want even if that means doing something outright illegal. Assuming all the "good" and "legal" options are ultimately exhausted, then I would resort to the "darker" options of getting what I want.

But there's no honor on that. Doing some legal or illegal scam is not honorable IMO.


-Also, what duende actually means is that one thing is theory and another is practice. And this applies to every field, from sports, to engineering. You need to actually experiment to realize there are other variables (in fact too many) you're not aware of, and compromises have to be made, at least temporarily, in order to advance a project.


-You don't really need to pay for classes to learn a language, there's many tools and information on the internet. At least to get you to a half decent-level, it' really up to you to put the time.

-There is a problem with marrying a very young woman imo. It's that some women unpredictably metamorph into a completely different person physically, most likely for the worse. Sorry to be shallow, but for men it is a real issue. I see many unhappy guys with a woman that's not her "former self" anymore. Perhaps an older girl will give you an idea of whether she would age more gracefully.
Just curious (semi-judging here), what would you do Tsar if your princess transforms into some whale by the time she's 30 and not give you "sparks" anymore? would you dump her because she's no longer "what I want"?

[Tsar]

This pretty much epitomises the deluded, distorted view some of you seem to hold: whore with me, virgin with everybody else. Doesn't it sound a tod contradictory, to yearn for a girl who is as virtuous as you can possibly imagine, yet kisses you by the third date and - then what? - has sex with you by the fifth or sixth. Wouldn't it be better to just admit that such a girl will never exist, at least not in mainstream Western societies?

Whoa! You think that kissing on the third date is whorish behavior? You have some serious hang-ups, dude.

If girls who don't meet minimum standards of decency don't exist, then it's better not to get married.

Exactly, mine was a provocation. Where does one exactly set the "happy medium between prudishness and sluttiness"? According to Tsar, a girl would have to be a complete virgin and untouched until marriage. You are obviously more open to compromise, as it should be.

All in all, my opinion is that one doesn't judge a girl a whore just because she has "fornicated" (= had one or two boyfriends) before. Life is what happens while we're busy making other plans, said John Lennon. If this applies to our lives, even more so it applies to others people's lives.

I never said I would reject a girl for having kissed a few boyfriends. However, if there was a 10/10 virgin girl that kissed a few boyfriends or an 8/10 virgin girl that was completely innocent, all else being equal I would reject the 10/10 for the 8/10. Ultimately the greater the virtue of purity, the greater the love I would feel for the girl. Sacrificing some goddess like beauty for greater princessly purity is a good trade-off.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/princessly

A girl can still be a whore if she is a virgin but kissed dozens of guys and kissed guys at parties. Also, if she 'french kissed' even a boyfriend that is unacceptable. 'French kissing' is not acceptable to Mormons so obviously I'm not the only one that deems that unacceptable for a potential and suitable bride. Purity is more than just being a virgin.

Drawing a Venn Diagram I could demonstrate that virginity, purity, and innocence overlap but all three are different and imply different things. What I want in a girl is contained within the central dimension where all three elements overlap. That is the 'Ideal Princess' dimension on the diagram.

Realistically it would be too difficult for many men and for many women in the modern age to adhere to the old and traditional standards of nobility. Ideally I would find a girl that had the divine beauty of a goddess and the purity of an ideal princess. Such a quest would be both difficult, time consuming, and expensive but it is doable. 1 in 10,000 odds are still worthy because it isn't about chance, it's about controlling the variables and using verifiable statistics. Age, location, demographics, religiousness, nationality, family, her values, and other variables are controllable. These all effect the probability and the odds. Polygraphs and medical exams would also allow for anything to be scientifically verified and prevent her from lying. Proving herself to be truthful would enhance the trust of the relationship and show that she has nothing to hide from me, while refusing to prove herself means that there are things she is hiding and she is not willing to be honest. Honesty is another virtue that could be the second-most important after purity.

Read about the seven virtues to understand what I want in a girl and a basic summary of what the virtues represent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues

[droid]

Hmm...do you mean "not know" or "not care"? The moment you start a relationship with a girl that's worth its salt, sooner rather than later stories and anecdotes about her past boyfriends (or husbands) will necessarily come up. And as far as I can see, women are just as inquisitive about your past relationships, if not more. I don't see anything bad or disqualifying in that.

If it's a lady somewhat even close to being marriage material, she will try not to bring those up. But the concept of marriage-worthiness has changed of course...
As far as her knowing what I've done, she can ask and I will tell. But I won't ask nor listen much, sorry.

I agree with you though, if a guy wants to know about his partner's past because he has an obsession about being bigger and better than the others, that's beyond idiotic, as well as completely useless: if she's with you, it's precisely because she's 100% over the other guys, or giving a serious shot about forgetting the previous one.
The matter of exes being invited to dinner entirely depends who they were. It's not uncommon for girls to have relationships with two guys within the same social circle, so going out as friends may well involve being side by side with one of her exes. It could be embarassing at times, but if the breakup hadn't been particularly nasty and no grudges are born, it's not such an unbearable problem.

Again, you are too comfortable with all that...
It's not about the 'breakup having been nasty', you're copping out. It's about the other dude having cre*med inside her. Excuse the bluntness, but that's what it is about.

This is one of the silly stereotypes you guys keep on nurturing. So if the man has a "higher notch count" than the girl, then the relationship is automatically healthier and more balanced? If she had a few boyfriends before, then she's a whore because her previous relationships could be construed as a hyperactive sexual life. Unlike what Tsar likes to think, adults entering adult relationship have a baggage of personal experiences. Some of those experiences might give a positive boost to the relationship at hand (think of how well a girl who knows how to please a man can please YOU), some others might get in the way - fears and minor traumas, etc.

Actually, it's not about balance, it's precisely about you being the man, not an "equal" partner.

(think of how well a girl who knows how to please a man can please YOU)

That's nice when i go p4p, but for marriage I don't exactly consider it an asset. I can ask her what I'd like done.

This "honour" matter sounds a little naive to me, sorry. If I hooked up with a new girl, I would spend the overwhelming majority of my time understanding how she fits with me, rather than worrying how she fitted with her exes or how much better or worse I am compared to them.

Not trying to be insulting, but maybe you don't have any (left)?


To each their own, but I'm just putting this in the context of HA, where we search for what's "best" out there, and not settling for the 'blue pill' paradigms of 'equality', etc.

[Tsar]

I plan on getting my hands dirty and getting what I want even if that means doing something outright illegal. Assuming all the "good" and "legal" options are ultimately exhausted, then I would resort to the "darker" options of getting what I want.

But there's no honor on that. Doing some legal or illegal scam is not honorable IMO.

There is no honor in war. Life can be compared to a war. I think the Machiavellian idea that the ends justifies the means can be accurate. Someone who is playing a game and is assured defeat, but secretly turns the tide by cheating his way to victory did so because loss was not an option and the end result mattered more than the means. It doesn't matter he used trickery, unjust means, or deception to get what he wanted. He wanted victory so he could live his dream. There are ways to get, buy, or fabricate an illusion to force the hands of others. Instead of playing the game it's stacking the deck so the cards fall perfectly in line. Victory at all costs. Doing the right and ethical thing is always honorable and should be the first options for victory. However, in desperate times when defeat is not an option and failure becomes certain one must sometimes resort to desperate measures in the name of a victory or a greater good, even if that greater good is their own personal greater good.

-There is a problem with marrying a very young woman imo. It's that some women unpredictably metamorph into a completely different person physically, most likely for the worse. Sorry to be shallow, but for men it is a real issue. I see many unhappy guys with a woman that's not her "former self" anymore. Perhaps an older girl will give you an idea of whether she would age more gracefully.

A girl that is 16 generally doesn't change that much throughout her aging. There was a girl that was one of the hottest girls in the entire high school. Ever since she was a teenager she had generally the same look. She didn't age that much, she was a 8.5 in high school. She probably has a golden ratio proportions and strong femininity. Last year or two years ago I ran into her and one of her knew boyfriends as they were arguing as they walked into the aisle I was currently browsing. I recognized the voice and when I glanced up for a minute I saw her and instantly recognized her. That is after not seeing her for about five or six years. Obviously I didn't feel much of anything when I glanced at her because I no longer feel anything for American or Western women. The point is that the most beautiful girls and the most feminine girls don't age poorly because that beauty is in their genetics. Ethnicity also plays a role in aging. That girl from my high school had facial proportions similar to that of the Yulia, Vera, and probably Western Beach girl. Based on the pictures on dating websites, many Slavic girls age very well. Exercise and healthy diets can also help a girl maintain her aging. No smoking and no getting drunk will also help a girl maintain her beauty. Not being a whore also helps a girl's aging.

Just curious (semi-judging here), what would you do Tsar if your princess transforms into some whale by the time she's 30 and not give you "sparks" anymore? would you dump her because she's no longer "what I want"?

I would divorce the whale. I don't care as much about the sparks as I do being able to like her appearance and being able to see her virtues. Becoming overweight is unacceptable. It shows she isn't healthy, doesn't care about her health, and doesn't care about the relationship. It would be a blow to my pride in the face of others. I want to be able to show off my woman and use her as a source of pride and self-esteem. I want her to care about me and my feelings. I want her to be beautiful for both me and for herself. I want other guys to look at me and be a little envious I'm with such a great, glamorous, and alluring woman. Walking around with a landwhale is shameful and other men would look at me thinking "What a loser!" or be silently laughing at me. I want pride and I want to feel powerful. I want to be at the top of the world and to be like a star. I want people to look at me and see radiance. I want others to be blinded by my glory. I want them to be jealous of me for what I have. I don't really believe in "one true love" anymore. It's not about who I love, it's about the characteristics of who I love and the ego boost they give me. Replacing a girlfriend/bride/wife would be somewhat difficult, especially because of the time, effort, and money it would take to try and get another suitable replacement. I think that's why having one wife, and one or two concubines is an advantage. More competition among the girls, eliminates the need for immediate replacements, and the girls know they are replaceable. Virtues of a princess, beauty of a goddess is my mantra. I can deal with aging because everyone ages. What I can not deal with is unhealthy fat and even the slightly overweight. Fitness will be required of any girl I'm with. We would do it as a couple. Yulia Dorosh exercises, is very into fitness, and is very athletic and toned. Therefore any girl I'm with will be required to exercise at least one hour of cardio, five days a week and them some mild strength training after cardio to enhance the burning of fat calories. The girl I'm with and I would do it together and it would be one of our daily couple activities. Most meals would be healthy meals.

[Tsar]

Too much history

Think about that moment you have a talk with your daughter: while you tell her that she should respect herself and not sleep around your whore of a wife will chuckle. A man’s biggest pain is listening to his wife’s sordid history in bed. Every promiscuous woman has more than a few night’s experience, so it will only bemuse the men that have banged her on intoxicated nights filled with cocaine to find out she is married to you.

You know that girl has slept with all of your friends? You cannot help but laugh when you find out she actually found a boyfriend, yet you do not tell him what you know because it’s just too funny. He has quickly become the root of all your jokes. Her history will be something she can never erase, and something you are going to have to deal with if you date a former whore.

Imagine asking her about her past, and her numeral response far surpasses yours. If that was not bad enough, her vagina will be so blown out a night with her will be like throwing a hot-dog down a hallway. It becomes like a old car with a lot of miles on it. Yes the engine might still be there but the ride is terrible.

http://elitedaily.com/dating/gentlemen/ ... housewife/

Ignorance can be just as bad, or worse, than knowing. If you could accept such a woman then that is your choice. I could never accept such a woman. I would be a mockery, lose my honor, lose my pride, and be a broken poor excuse of a man. Being with a virgin was a rite of passage into manhood.

[Hero]

if she 'french kissed' even a boyfriend that is unacceptable. 'French kissing' is not acceptable to Mormons so obviously I'm not the only one that deems that unacceptable for a potential and suitable bride. Purity is more than just being a virgin.

LOL you're using Mormon beliefs to vindicate yourself? Let me remind you that these are the people who once said that polygamy is OK. Check out some of their other bizarre beliefs.

IMO, if a girl won't "French kiss" me by the third date, either she's not serious about me or she's sexually frigid. What a nightmare it would be if that kind of prudish behavior continued after marriage!