Warning! Free speech does NOT mean zero behavior standards!

[Winston]

Because I am not politically correct. I have opinions on women that are more traditional then most people. I am old-fashioned in some ways

OK, and on most forums you would be censored and idiots would say you were sexist, hated women, were deliberately being offensive to women etc. And you would maintain that that was wrong and your views should be tolerated as they are here. But then when someone expresses politically incorrect views that you don't agree with you immediately indulge in the very same behavior you would condemn in others. You are not going to learn anything or develop your worldview this way.

We are not debating whether political correctness should be enforced here. Of course it shouldn't. We are talking about having standards of tactfulness within reason. We cannot have zero tactfulness standards here. We cannot allow unlimited rudeness either. That would be unwise and crazy and wrong too. You gotta be reasonable and understand that.

[Cornfed]

You suggested a poll should be made. This would probably be the best way to get input from the community.

We've had a poll and the vote was to unban the banned posters by a wide margin. I would wager that the result was not about agreeing with any particular position but rather endorsing free speech. There was another poll that endorsed allowing racist posts. The community has spoken.

[MarcosZeitola]

You suggested a poll should be made. This would probably be the best way to get input from the community.

We've had a poll and the vote was to unban the banned posters by a wide margin. I would wager that the result was not about agreeing with any particular position but rather endorsing free speech. There was another poll that endorsed allowing racist posts. The community has spoken.

There's different levels of racism. There's subtle racism and prejudice and there is the hardcore, venomous belief that those of another race aren't even human. To call some of our members beasts or animals is just plain wrong, and this is something I'd like to see a poll on...

We have quite a few black members. If they find a nice girl to have sex with, most normal sane people would just congratulate them and be happy for them. But you get mean, bitter and angry and call it "bestiality" (as in, insinuating they are animal men sleeping with a human female). This type of behaviour is you taking things a little too far and I would like to see a poll on that.

It isn't racism in general that is the problem, but the way in which you word it. The way in which you say it. It's all just so extreme, uncivil and without any tact or subtlety. I dare say it reflects badly on our site as a whole.

[Winston]

Cornfed,
You do have a right to free speech and to be honest about your feelings and beliefs. However, you do not have a right to unlimited rudeness and unlimited tactlessness without boundary.

So try to find a middle ground ok? Try to be more sensitive and considerate. Show some empathy at least.

That goes for some other tactless posters here too, such as Repatriate.

[Cornfed]

We have quite a few black members. If they find a nice girl to have sex with, most normal sane people would just congratulate them and be happy for them. But you get mean, bitter and angry and call it "bestiality" (as in, insinuating they are animal men sleeping with a human female). This type of behaviour is you taking things a little too far and I would like to see a poll on that.

I think you will find the vast majority of people in the world would be horrified by the idea of their females breeding or having sex with blacks, so by world standards if any opinion should be regarded as offensive and censored it should be yours.

It isn't racism in general that is the problem, but the way in which you word it. The way in which you say it. It's all just so extreme, uncivil and without any tact or subtlety.

So you are against clarity of speech then?

[Winston]

Observation:

It's sad, but I would say that it's highly probable that people like Cornfed and Repatriate, and sometimes Rock too, who lack sensitivity and empathy toward others, likely have sociopathic personality traits.

The simple reason is that people who are sensitive and empathetic do not act the way they do. They do not make horrible demeaning remarks frivolously without consideration, conscience or empathy toward others. Only sociopathic personalities do such things.

[Repatriate]

Winston this is a ridiculous thread even by your standards. So you're going to start censoring or banning people that disagree with you or poke a little fun?

What are you Kim Jong Un?

[eurobrat]

It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

I really have never found this place welcoming or the members ever united on anything except North American female bashing. Which if most of them did leave the country as I have they would find the North American females to actually be the better crop of women in this world.

Well many of us have gone abroad and disagree with you 100 percent. If you want to come back to America and deal with spoiled rotten women who don't need you and don't want to be approached, then come back to America then.

Dude, they're like that pretty much everywhere especially here in Italy. I still think the more intelligent, independent and philosophical types can be found in North America.

Stop having such high standards and going to places like The Bunny Ranch.

[zboy1]

Winston, Rock kept attacking me even--when I unbanned some members that I previously banned from this forum, due to receiving complaints about them from other HA members, and when I called for a truce, his attacks become more vicious towards me. His attacks were so vicious that people like Kai1275, Repatriate, Faclon and Mr.Peabody had to come in defend me on this forum. And then he admitted that Cornfed crossed the line with his thread: "Why Blacks are inferior." What a joke! He seems like a real d*ckhead sometimes...

And this is the same dude that kept asking me to bring back Odbo, and then complained to you that I was a racist. LOL! Whose the freakin' racist in reality?

The funny thing was...before that event, we had a phone conversation where we talked about China, Taiwan and a whole list of other personal things about me; hell, he even wanted to hang-out with me in Shenzhen for a couple of days. And then, all of a sudden, he goes all ape-shit on me...smh. He seems like a real-two faced type of person...

[zboy1]

There's too much infighting on HA; it's been a problem since 2007 (when HA first started operating).

The problem is when I put the hammer down--you complain that it's too much and then the quality of the forum goes down after that, because you let all these freaks back on the forum.

Winston, when I tried to clean-up the forum many times before--it worked--but in the most recent housecleaning, you said I went too far. But look athe forum now!--too much garbage and infighting happening again. If only you would let me fix these issues, then you wouldn't be having all these problems on the forum.

[DanielleNguyen]

thank you finally. Maybe it is just the pregnancy talking but a lot of the posts people put back to me hurt my feelings. I mean I don't curse at anyone or call people SLUTS so why call me one.

[KokujinKrusader]

Certain people are just disappointing overall. It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves? Who knows. But some people such as Cornfed have repeatedly pushed the bounderies of good taste and continue to do so. Free speech is a good thing, and of vital importance. But freedom of speech does not mean people should dehumanize and deeply offend others just because they can. That's tasteless and uncalled for.

I agree that this forum should be about helping people with their travels and moves abroad and sharing information, but what we are seeing goes back to the competitive nature of life. By stifling others, you get to maintain your position. It mainly seems to be racial, but it works in other ways too. I have seen it when traveling abroad, and have seen it many, many times online, especially in regards to finding women overseas.

I believe that there is a thread about a "happier abroad window" on this forum, which refers to the amount of time people have to actually have a good time overseas, whether it is due to age, changing social norms, the global spread of media and feminism, etc.. which would put expats/travelers at a disadvantage or make them lose their edge. What we are seeing here is that for some people to keep their windows open, they must close the windows on others, so to speak.

[NorthAmericanguy]

Good post Winston. Truth be told though, any place online you will find harsh talk, and vitriol speech because people for the first time can say how they truly feel because they're behind the safety of their computer.

For me though, at first, it was hard to deal the harsh criticism, but now I'm starting to like it because in the end it's making me stronger. I mean, if you can stand up to harsh criticism, you're one tough cookie!

Reminds me of a stand up comic who said he spent his early years being harshly booed off stage and he said learning to cope with criticism was like exercising a muscle to where you build yourself up to the point where being criticized doesn't bother you anymore.

Being rejected by women, or in sales, follows the same concept. You just got to back up and fight on!!!

[The]

Then start banning people like Mr. Darcy, Cornball, Tsar, Danielle Ngyuyen and others who race bait and troll and are creeps...Put your money where your mouth is....

[Rock]

Just a heads up to you all and a warning to some of you here:

The free speech policy here does NOT mean that bad behavior or extremely rude behavior is tolerated and permissible here. So please don't get that idea. Just because we are very open here about free speech does NOT mean that anyone is free to abuse it.

For example, Repatriate tends to go over the line with his extreme mockery sometimes. It's ok to say that I'm fat or overweight. But he rubs it with extreme insults, colorful words and descriptions, all in a mean-spirited manner designed to inflate and exaggerate his insults for maximum effect.

That's very insensitive and mean-spirited for sure. Especially when it's directed at someone who's never wronged him.

Even some of our veteran members like Rock show tactless behavior and bad people skills sometimes. People like him have personality defects and it shows in their posts. For example, just because I get scammed by extreme pushiness and aggressiveness under pressure, and given no time to think, does NOT mean that I deserve to be ridiculed and blamed for that. People like him do not get it, do not see the big picture, and are not sensitive about such situations.

Important point: If a man is stressed and angry, it is NOT wise to make things worse by mocking him and ridiculing him (like Repatriate and Rock did). Only people with low EQ, bad people skills, and a lack of tact and sensitivity (like Repatriate and Rock) would do such a thing. Mature adults with good sense do not do that. Think about it.

Other forum moderators do not take such mean-spirited insults. So why should I?

We need to enforce some standards of civility here. Extreme bad behavior and rude, insensitive, tactless behavior should not be allowed without penalty. There has to be some kind of boundary when it comes to that.

Tact is an important part of having people skills. And that's true here too.

There is a difference between constructive criticism and nasty ridicule and insults that are over the top and cross the line. Free speech does not mean anything goes. Some of you are abusing our free speech policy.

Therefore, the moderators here reserve the right to ban or issue warnings at their discretion when such boundaries of civility are transgressed repeatedly.

Sometimes insults are deserved when the person's behavior has earned it. Sometimes they are not. The ones that are done in a mean-spirited manner (as Repatriate often does) are distasteful and over the line.

Most people are sensitive in some way. So they deserve to be treated with some tact and sensitivity.

Try to grow up and understand that.

Hope you all understand and agree.

1. I admit that calling you a naïve chump and saying you behave like a clown is very blunt and not the most tactful thing to say. But ever hear of tough love.

I hate scammers with a passion. But those guys would hardly exist if it weren’t for the people who feed them. I expect better from you. Majority of people I know would never set foot in a US brothel. And of the ones who might, almost all would have the presence of mind (even with 10 playboy bunnies fondling them) to never sign a credit card receipt for a charge they didn’t fully agree too.

It’s one thing to have your card fraudulently over-swiped. But once you sign, that argument goes right out the window. Signing implies agreement on your part unless the brothel doctored the receipts after the fact or forced you to sign under clear physical threat. They did neither. I told you all this from day one. Credit card companies may sometimes be sympathetic in favor of the card holder. But once they rule against you, it’s pretty much over, at least in a case like this one where your John Hancock is on each piece of paper.

2. I’m gonna add, you sure can dish it out more than you can take it. You’ve accuse me of having amnesia, lying about having attended Taekwondo classes in uni for over a year, and not being in touch with my spiritual side, among other things. Those are pretty personal. When I criticize you, at least I don’t doubt your character nor do I insult areas you can’t much change like your appearance. OTOH, I still remember you calling a certain rather polite poster old bald and fat after seeing his photo. When you’ve lost your temper online, you’ve written quite a few rather mean things directed at certain posters.

3. If you don’t like what I write, I think it’s ok if you ban me. At least I can still follow the forum passively and keep in touch with HAers offline. But threatening to expose identity through pictures or other information is way out of line. That gets to the trust issue I’ve mentioned before. If I were a loose cannon like that, I could threaten to go delete all of my own posts. But that would be a very negative and destructive thing to do. We should be way past that kind of immature stage in our lives by now. I’m not here for warring. If you don’t like something I said, keep your response within the bounds of reason. Last resort, just ban me. I’ll live.