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Guidelines for the new expat-only forum

Moderated subforum for expat living and dating discussions. Members only. Must qualify to participate. See guidelines inside. Civil behavior only. No trolls, attacks, insults, quarrels or racism.
fschmidt
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Post by fschmidt » June 22nd, 2014, 9:33 am

publicduende wrote:Why will racism be allowed? What contribution can an argument about (alleged) black inferiority or Asian superiority bring to the HA discourse?
Happier Abroad is the most active free speech forum on the internet. I think that is something of real value that I want to preserve. If you don't like what someone says, you can put them on ignore or go to the new forum.
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publicduende
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Post by publicduende » June 22nd, 2014, 10:42 am

fschmidt wrote:
publicduende wrote:Why will racism be allowed? What contribution can an argument about (alleged) black inferiority or Asian superiority bring to the HA discourse?
Happier Abroad is the most active free speech forum on the internet. I think that is something of real value that I want to preserve. If you don't like what someone says, you can put them on ignore or go to the new forum.
My bad. I thought Zboy meant the racism will be allowed in the new forum.

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Yohan
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Post by Yohan » June 23rd, 2014, 4:33 am

zboy1 wrote:I nominate Travelin Man (the guy living in Hong Kong) Green1976, Yohan and Gsjackson to be part of the forum.
Thanks, but I still do not have any real idea about this new forum or section.

For what should it be good for? Happierabroad so far as I can see covers anyway everything regarding expat-life.

Or do you mean a forum solely to filter out data for living, like housing, visa, costs of living etc. - without any comments regarding women, nightlife?

For sure I do not want to see something like Orientexpat, which is simply said a place of insincere moderation, and as many were banned or left, there are only a few comments per day from the same few members writing to each other.

About racism, it's complicated, what is racist and what is not?
It is difficult to avoid any discussion about the behavior of people of different race, international mixed-race marriage in an expat-forum.

zboy1
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Post by zboy1 » June 23rd, 2014, 5:54 am

Yohan wrote:
zboy1 wrote:I nominate Travelin Man (the guy living in Hong Kong) Green1976, Yohan and Gsjackson to be part of the forum.
Thanks, but I still do not have any real idea about this new forum or section.

For what should it be good for? Happierabroad so far as I can see covers anyway everything regarding expat-life.

Or do you mean a forum solely to filter out data for living, like housing, visa, costs of living etc. - without any comments regarding women, nightlife?

For sure I do not want to see something like Orientexpat, which is simply said a place of insincere moderation, and as many were banned or left, there are only a few comments per day from the same few members writing to each other.

About racism, it's complicated, what is racist and what is not?
It is difficult to avoid any discussion about the behavior of people of different race, international mixed-race marriage in an expat-forum.
If you don't know what the meaning of expat life is...and can't tell the difference of what is racism or not, maybe you are not the type of person that should be in the new forum, then.

Is probably better that you post on the regular forum, since you oppose moderation.

If you want, I will probably leave you out of the forum then...

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droid
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Post by droid » June 23rd, 2014, 6:44 am

If you don't know what the meaning of expat life is...and can't tell the difference of what is racism or not, maybe you are not the type of person that should be in the new forum, then.
Is probably better that you post on the regular forum, since you oppose moderation.
If you want, I will probably leave you out of the forum then...
That sounds like PC-tiranny LOL.
I hope Fschmidt can get Ghost back on the forum again
I liked Ghost, but apparently he and CF are intent on sabotaging HA, according to some of their posts in "Co-Alpha".

Anyway, I would request though, that you let the rest of us look at the posts.
It wouldn't make sense to hide all the useful information. It would render the website's purpose null, as all those already HA don't really "need" it.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?

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Cornfed
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Post by Cornfed » June 23rd, 2014, 7:32 am

droid wrote:I liked Ghost, but apparently he and CF are intent on sabotaging HA, according to some of their posts in "Co-Alpha".
Doing so would hardly be necessary, given that Winston and zboy1 have sabotaging HA taken care of.

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Post by zboy1 » June 23rd, 2014, 9:08 am

droid wrote:
If you don't know what the meaning of expat life is...and can't tell the difference of what is racism or not, maybe you are not the type of person that should be in the new forum, then.
Is probably better that you post on the regular forum, since you oppose moderation.
If you want, I will probably leave you out of the forum then...
That sounds like PC-tiranny LOL.
I hope Fschmidt can get Ghost back on the forum again
I liked Ghost, but apparently he and CF are intent on sabotaging HA, according to some of their posts in "Co-Alpha".

Anyway, I would request though, that you let the rest of us look at the posts.
It wouldn't make sense to hide all the useful information. It would render the website's purpose null, as all those already HA don't really "need" it.
Yes, outsiders can read--they just cannot post or make new threads.

davewe
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Post by davewe » June 23rd, 2014, 4:45 pm

While I am enthused about the new board and glad to be included, I am skeptical. It still comes down to what will be the rules and guidelines, what will be the consequences for someone breaking the rules, and whether the mod has actual power to enforce it.

At this point all anyone has to do is complain to Winston who puts up a poll on who should be banned or waters down the rules.

Invited members to the new forum should be adult enough to read and adhere to the rules. If not they should stick to the main forum.

zacb
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Post by zacb » June 23rd, 2014, 6:12 pm

I would be interested.
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zboy1
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Post by zboy1 » June 24th, 2014, 1:47 am

zacb wrote:I would be interested.
Okay, but I thought you were against moderation and for "free speech"? I know you're pretty Libertarian, Zacb, so how would you react to a heavily moderated expat-only section--where the rules are strict and you cannot post anything you like, such as in the regular forum?

BTW, if an infraction occurs, then you will get kicked-out of the expat-only section but still allowed to post in the regular sections of HappierAbroad.

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Yohan
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Post by Yohan » June 24th, 2014, 5:15 am

zboy1 wrote:
Yohan wrote:
zboy1 wrote:I nominate Travelin Man (the guy living in Hong Kong) Green1976, Yohan and Gsjackson to be part of the forum.
Thanks, but I still do not have any real idea about this new forum or section.

For what should it be good for? Happierabroad so far as I can see covers anyway everything regarding expat-life.

Or do you mean a forum solely to filter out data for living, like housing, visa, costs of living etc. - without any comments regarding women, nightlife?

For sure I do not want to see something like Orientexpat, which is simply said a place of insincere moderation, and as many were banned or left, there are only a few comments per day from the same few members writing to each other.

About racism, it's complicated, what is racist and what is not?
It is difficult to avoid any discussion about the behavior of people of different race, international mixed-race marriage in an expat-forum.
If you don't know what the meaning of expat life is...and can't tell the difference of what is racism or not, maybe you are not the type of person that should be in the new forum, then.

Is probably better that you post on the regular forum, since you oppose moderation.

If you want, I will probably leave you out of the forum then...
Sorry to ask you, is this a joke?

I am living in foreign countries away from Central Europe since over 40 years, most time in Japan, married to a Japanese woman, have 2 daughters with my wife and a Filipina fosterdaughter, have my own retirement condo in Thailand, just had friends visiting me from Malaysia and you ask me if I know what expat life is?

I was asking you what topics should this new forum include and what is excluded?
I was also asking what is your definition of racism, which I consider more or less US-related, or maybe former British colony history related (South Africa for example).

I do not oppose moderation in general, but I oppose insincere moderation.

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Cornfed
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Post by Cornfed » June 24th, 2014, 6:47 am

Yohan wrote:I was asking you what topics should this new forum include and what is excluded?
I was also asking what is your definition of racism, which I consider more or less US-related, or maybe former British colony history related (South Africa for example).
It is interesting to ponder how the restrictions would work out in practice while still enabling any sort of useful discussion. For example, is saying that females from some countries are nicer and better looking than females from other countries racist? If I say that Korean students are academically brighter than Khmer students on average then clearly that would be racist, but might it not also be something that, say, English teachers would want to know? Or take conspiracy theories. If I point out that the way to get a business visa extension in Cambodia is to go through a third party provider and pay an extra fee that for them to split with the bureaucrats providing the visas, then clearly this is alleging a conspiracy to abuse government office for illicit financial gain, so presumably this would not be allowed. But what if it is in fact true? Would someone applying for a visa extension not want to know it?

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Yohan
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Post by Yohan » June 24th, 2014, 4:30 pm

@Cornfed
I agree with you.
I was asking myself the same question, and I think it is very difficult to define what is racist hateful speech and what is not.

I know that some requirements for passing successfully tests in schools and some checks for employment in USA and UK were downgraded, as many black students (USA) and women (UK) failed to pass them and if a certain quota is not fulfilled it is race or gender discrimination.

If I complain now about downgraded requirements and about gender specific quotas and insist that only those people who passed the original requirements should get the certificates and employment contracts REGARDLESS their race or gender it makes me a racist and women-hater? Why? Because mostly white men were passing?

Either such discussion is allowed without being worried about being moderated or this is not free speech anymore, but censorship.

In case of an Expat Forum it is really difficult to avoid any race-related discussion. I am white, from Central Europe. Of course, expats like myself are living in Asia among people of different race all time, since decades. I am very sceptical about the bad and overdemanding behavior of white women in Europe and Northern America, does this make me a racist against my own race?

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MarcosZeitola
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Post by MarcosZeitola » June 24th, 2014, 4:41 pm

Cornfed wrote:
Yohan wrote:I was asking you what topics should this new forum include and what is excluded?
I was also asking what is your definition of racism, which I consider more or less US-related, or maybe former British colony history related (South Africa for example).
It is interesting to ponder how the restrictions would work out in practice while still enabling any sort of useful discussion. For example, is saying that females from some countries are nicer and better looking than females from other countries racist? If I say that Korean students are academically brighter than Khmer students on average then clearly that would be racist, but might it not also be something that, say, English teachers would want to know? Or take conspiracy theories. If I point out that the way to get a business visa extension in Cambodia is to go through a third party provider and pay an extra fee that for them to split with the bureaucrats providing the visas, then clearly this is alleging a conspiracy to abuse government office for illicit financial gain, so presumably this would not be allowed. But what if it is in fact true? Would someone applying for a visa extension not want to know it?
The separate section would be a sub-forum for those who actually traveled abroad already, those who have actual experience dating foreign women or those seriously planning to go abroad soon and wishing to get advice. It would be practical in nature and most conversation would therefore also be matters of a practical nature. There would be conversations about race, as there are racial and cultural differences and these can be relevant for those wishing to pursue a foreign women, but they likely wouldn't go into "better or worse", "us vs them" nonsense as this gets us nowhere. One can accept differences between people, learn how to work with these and do so without attaching value to races. I think this would most likely be the tone. The whiners who focus solely on race and other peoples' perceived superiority or inferiority would not be invited. And instead of whining about Western women being lame, we'd be talking about how Asian or Latina women are awesome and how to go about dating one.

So the energy of such a forum would be much more positive. We'd look forward, not backwards, and propel others into action. Too much whining about our problems at home only makes for a negative and unproductive environment, in my experience, especially when it comes from people who to my knowledge lack the experience and attitude to actually give useful commentary on the things that are being discussed.

You'd still be able to discuss their racial theories, only they would do so on a specific portion of the website. Acknowledging differences between races or ethnic groups can be done in a polite way, more fitting to the new expat board. Does this in any way sound unreasonable?
Yohan wrote:In case of an Expat Forum it is really difficult to avoid any race-related discussion. I am white, from Central Europe. Of course, expats like myself are living in Asia among people of different race all time, since decades. I am very sceptical about the bad and overdemanding behavior of white women in Europe and Northern America, does this make me a racist against my own race?
The forum would be very much practical in nature. Discussion would be done in a polite, friendly and fact-based tone. As someone who is married to a Filipina I would be the last person in the world to oppose discussing differences between Asian, White and Black women. However if we do so, it should be done in a polite and mature way. Cornfed has the believe that to have sex with non-whites is essentially "bestiality", and such comments add nothing to the forum whatsoever and distract from the key issues.

The new forum would focus on getting ahead. Going from A to B. It would not have any people who just stay at home and whine and complain. Of those people we already have far too many, and their comments are ill-informed and not at all helpful. That whole negative vibe will not be on the expat sub-forum.

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Cornfed
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Post by Cornfed » June 24th, 2014, 8:29 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote: The separate section would be a sub-forum for those who actually traveled abroad already, those who have actual experience dating foreign women or those seriously planning to go abroad soon and wishing to get advice. It would be practical in nature and most conversation would therefore also be matters of a practical nature. There would be conversations about race, as there are racial and cultural differences and these can be relevant for those wishing to pursue a foreign women, but they likely wouldn't go into "better or worse", "us vs them" nonsense as this gets us nowhere. One can accept differences between people, learn how to work with these and do so without attaching value to races. I think this would most likely be the tone. The whiners who focus solely on race and other peoples' perceived superiority or inferiority would not be invited. And instead of whining about Western women being lame, we'd be talking about how Asian or Latina women are awesome and how to go about dating one.

So the energy of such a forum would be much more positive. We'd look forward, not backwards, and propel others into action. Too much whining about our problems at home only makes for a negative and unproductive environment, in my experience, especially when it comes from people who to my knowledge lack the experience and attitude to actually give useful commentary on the things that are being discussed.

You'd still be able to discuss their racial theories, only they would do so on a specific portion of the website. Acknowledging differences between races or ethnic groups can be done in a polite way, more fitting to the new expat board. Does this in any way sound unreasonable?
Not so much unreasonable as complete gibberish.

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