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Was Ancient History a hoax invented during the Renaissance?

If you're a history buff, love to talk about history and watch the History Channel, this is the board for that.

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Was Ancient History a hoax invented during the Renaissance?

Postby Winston » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:18 pm

Have any of you ever heard of Anatoly Fomenko? He's a brilliant Russian mathematician that stirred up controversy in historian academia by claiming that the ancient history of Europe and Russia was a fiction and hoax invented and crafted during the Renaissance of the 1600's. His theory claims that recorded history actually began in 900 AD, and that many of the events in ancient history occurred after 900 AD, including the Roman Empire and the life of Jesus. So he has created a new Chronology of history that differs from the traditional one.

It sounds crazy, but the greatest chess champion in the world, Gary Kasparov, agrees with much of his theory. But of course, just because one is a great chess player or mathematician does not mean one is also a great historian.

Fomenko has written volumes of scholarly books about it. You can find them on Amazon.com. Here are some promo videos about Fomenko's theory and books.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C_52bZxie4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm8nychBkGc[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDtRajr8MYs[/youtube]

Description:

Has history been tampered with? The documented history of human civilization is supposed to reach several millennia back into the past.

And yet if we consider the rate at which civilization is supposed to have progressed, we encounter periods of obscurity and informational vacuum following the alleged decline of every ancient empire, and then everything starts anew. Inventions are presumed lost for centuries, then re-invented by people whose names bear suspicious semblance to those of the ancient inventors. Just how true all of this is? Could history as we know it really be a collation of several chronicles relating to one and the same period of time?

Apparently, this is what the Russian mathematician Anatoly Fomenko claims. He is the author of the first volume in a series of seven that came out in English recently, and generated incredible controversy amongst professional historians worldwide. Many are trying to put the author into one league with numerous paranoid conspiracy theorists and mad inventors - however, all of his work conforms to the highest academic standards and is backed by solid scientific facts; furthermore, some of the most lucid minds of our time support many of the theories put forward by the authors. Garry Kasparov, the world chess champion, says the following in his preface to volume 1:

"Let us consider the factor of a mass character that I shall be referring to as psychophysical. Documented history tells us of the insatiable need of human beings to make discoveries. The vector of technological progress is a strictly vertical one. Every ten years something happens: discoveries, sea voyages, explosions... Everything keeps on changing, we see constant evolution - from Columbus to the landing on the Moon, from crossbows to nuclear bombs. Forwards and upwards. However, the traditional ancient history tells us of periods when humanity apparently remained dormant for centuries - "ancient" Egypt, the mediaeval "Dark Ages" - whole epochs of utter stasis in human thinking. It appears that the inhabitants of ancient Egypt and Rome had a different genetic code, and couldn't be bothered about anything at all, so they froze in their development, the result being a total lack of innovative activity. At the same time, there had been prosperous ancient empires where those among homo sapiens who possessed penchants for arts and sciences could get plenty of opportunities for growth and development. But, alas and alack, all of the prosperous "ancient" empires had ceased their development at some point."

--------------------------------------------

Has history been tampered with? Did events and eras such as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Roman Empire , the Dark Ages, and the Renaissance, actually occur within a very different chronology from what we've been told? Yes, they certainly did! The history of humankind is both drastically shorter and dramatically different than generally presumed.
Why is it so? On one hand, it was usual custom to justify the claims to title and land by age and ancestry, and on the other the court historians knew only too well how to please their masters. The so called universal classic world history is a pack of intricate lies for all events prior to the 16th century. It's likely that nobody told you before, but there is not a single piece of firm written evidence or artefact that is reliably and independently dated prior to the 11th century.
Naturally, after what you've learned in school and university, you will not easily believe that the classical history of ancient Rome, Greece, Asia, Egypt, China, Japan, India, etc., is manifestly false.

You will point accusing finger to the pyramids in Egypt, to the Coliseum in Rome and Great Wall of China etc., and claim, aren't they really ancient, thousands of years ancient? Well, there is no valid scientific proof that they are older than 1000 years!

The oldest original written document that can be reliably dated belongs to the 11th century!

New research asserts that Homo sapiens invented writing (including hieroglyphics) only 1000 years ago. Once invented, writing skills were immediately and irreversibly put to the use of ruling powers and science.

The consensual chronology we live with was essentially crafted in the 16th century by Jesuits.

Early in life, we learn by heart the names and deeds of brave warriors, wise philosophers, fabulous pharaohs, cunning high priests and greedy scribes. We learn of gigantic pyramids and sinister castles, kings and queens, dukes and barons, powerful heroes and beautiful ladies, emaciated saints and low-life traitors. Dr debunks not merely the odd pillar, but the total, entire bastion of historical dating, proposing a 700 to 1000 year fictitious "add-on" section between 400 AD and 1100 AD (or larger) & argues that the conventional chronology sequence of almost EVERYTHING is erroneous.
Even if partially true this would be scary stuff.
Forget forbidden archeology which is for kindergarten....
Last edited by Winston on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Winston » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:43 am

Btw, the founder of this theory is supposed to be a mathematics genius from Moscow State University. He has written telephone sized books about it which you can get from Amazon.com. The readers on Amazon said that he does make a compelling case, though they are not sure that everything he says is correct. The thing is, he claims to base his claims on real serious scientific analysis, which historians do not usually do.

Here is his first volume of work:

History: Fiction or Science?
http://www.amazon.com/History-mathemati ... =8-1-spell

Review

Earth was flat. Humans saw that it was flat, books were telling scholars that it was flat, teachers were teaching students it was flat; scientists knew it was flat. There was some disagreement about the way it was kept afloat, most common versions were elephants, whales and turtles, but that was subject for scientific discussion. Until Magellan sailed around the globe and proved all this science wrong. This book is precisely about same situation. Although it is written for casual reader, it still bears all the traits of scientific research. Anyway, history as a science is based on books written by previous generation of historians, who based their works on works of previous generation of historians, supplemented by archeological digs (great deal of assumptions was made there too, as people didn't usually mark their belongings with dates), so it definitely needs some mathematical treatment. It is very difficult to digest the new version of history from Fomenko without getting allergic shock. Official timeline is accepted in the same way as gravity, and movement of the sun; many nations have developed their identity based on official history. Literally speaking chronology is in our culture, in our roots, personal identity. Someone said here that this book was written by Russian nationalist to reassure Russian national identity. May be so, but I think for Russians will be very difficult to swallow that they were actually Mongols and Tatars too. This book will turn your world upside down. Literally. --New Book Review, 03-03-2007 (CA, USA)

History: Fiction Or Science? is a quite scholarly expose of the extreme limitations of our understanding of human history. So few physical records have survived hundreds, let alone thousands of years that it casts even the most conventional understanding of what really happened into doubt. Chapters address the problems of historical chronology in general, astronomical datings, astronomy in the Old Testament, methods of dating ancient events via mathematical statistics, the construction of a global chronological map, the Dark Ages, and much more. Black-and-white illustrations add a vivid touch to this scholarly work that may appear controversial yet deals with a very serious issue directly affecting humanity's comprehension of its own past. --Midwest Book Review (Oregon, WI USA)

Product Description

History: Fiction or Science? is the most explosive tractate on history ever written - however, every theory it contains, no matter how unorthodox, is backed by solid scientific data. The book is well-illustrated, contains over 446 graphs and illustrations, copies of ancient manuscripts, and countless facts attesting to the falsity of the chronology used nowadays, which never cease to amaze the reader. Eminent mathematician proves that: Jesus Christ was born in 1153 and crucified in 1186 The Old Testament refers to mediaeval events. Apocalypse was written after 1486. Does this sound uncanny? This version of events is substantiated by hard facts and logic - validated by new astronomical research and statistical analysis of ancient sources - to a greater extent than everything you may have read and heard about history before. The dominating historical discourse in its current state was essentially crafted in the XVI century from a rather contradictory jumble of sources such as innumerable copies of ancient Latin and Greek manuscripts whose originals had vanished in the Dark Ages and the allegedly irrefutable proof offered by late mediaeval astronomers, resting upon the power of ecclesial authorities. Nearly all of its components are blatantly untrue! For some of us, it shall possibly be quite disturbing to see the magnificent edifice of classical history to turn into an ominous simulacrum brooding over the snake pit of mediaeval politics. Twice so, in fact: the first seeing the legendary millenarian dust on the ancient marble turn into a mere layer of dirt - one that meticulous unprejudiced research can eventually remove. The second, and greater, attack of unease comes with the awareness of just how many areas of human knowledge still trust the three elephants of the consensual chronology to support them. Nothing can remedy that except for an individual chronological revolution happening in the minds of a large enough number of people.


Now, as to what I think. I don't know. I don't judge or come to quick conclusions about everything. Truth is not handed to you on a silver platter. It's something you gotta DIG for, and even then, you will only get fragments of it. The problem is that many assume that truth is handed to you on a silver platter, and that truth is simply whatever the official version told to us is. That's simply not true.

We all know that history is the propaganda of the victorious. It's very easy for the powers to manipulate history to fit their agenda of things. I'm sure you all know that.

Therefore, it's smart to question things, even cherished beliefs. When you do, you often find that the official version of things is often not the truth. That is the disturbing but liberating realization that you come to eventually.

There's a reason why society is set up so that you don't have much free time. In your youth, school keeps you busy. In your adult life, work keeps you busy. In your spare time, the mainstream media holds your attention with the official version of things. The reason for all this is that if you have too much free time to think about everything, eventually you realize that you are a slave on a prison planet and that most of what you are told are hogwash, lies and gross distortions. That's the scary part, that when you have too much free time, you discover a lot of disturbing things, not just in terms of conspiracies, but about the state of existence itself. We are kept from all that by society that keeps us busy and distracted.

That's what I've learned and what I've discovered anyway. Sorry if that sounds wacky. I'm just being honest about it.

Bottom line: The stuff I posted here is just something to consider and contemplate. If you don't agree with it, then fine. But dismiss it for good logical reasons, not simply because it contradicts the official version of things.

One more thing: Skeptics seem to have a double standard when it comes to evidence. When evidence supports the official version of things, it is accepted and counted. But when it doesn't, then it is dismissed and labeled as "nonexistent or invalid", to justify their "no evidence exists to support any alternative hypothesis other than the official one" claim of skeptics.

But of course, we all have biases and tend to be selective in what evidence we will accept in accord with how well it fits into our beliefs and views (aka confirmation bias). That's human nature. It's just that skeptics tend to be more rigid about it than the average person is.
Last edited by Winston on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:58 am

I've never trusted skeptics, for the very reason that they are willing to accept the official version of things without a shred of proof but require unrealistic amounts of evidence to accept any other possibility.

I find it interesting that one of the reviews says forget "Forbidden Archaeology", which is interesting because that book goes in the very opposite direction make history much much longer than previously imagined and showing possibly great advancements in millennia old societies.

I am always curious about history, and it is not hard for me to imagine that it could all fall apart with a single discovery.
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Postby globetrotter » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:15 pm

Skeptics have a double standard.

Any idea that is counter-cultural and disproves 'the official version of things' is readily accepted with numerous flaws, mis-statements, omissions and logical fallacies.. But when it doesn't disprove 'the official version of things' it is ridiculed immediately.

The numerous CT posts that are now showing up on every sub-forum here are ample example.

Winston's flaw is that because he is a behavioral out-lier in his peer group and family, he projects this mindset on to every single aspect of his reality and identifies with anything that is outside the norm.

Even if it's absurd nonsense.

If it rebels against the status quo, then it must be true.
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Postby momopi » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:45 pm

Gee um, if humans only invented writing 1,000 years ago, that's a lot of "fake" historical coins we'd have to produce and bury into ancient graves and shipwrecks around the world.

Image

I can just imagine this photo caption: "Chinese cops stashing fake Tang dynasty coins in elaborate conspiracy to prove that Chinese writing dates back over 1,000 years".
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Postby MrPeabody » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:50 pm

Another problem is that the history we get is simplified and inaccurate. For example, I have a link below which clearly demonstrates that George Washington was not the first president of the United States.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/582763/posts
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Postby Winston » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:39 pm

Here is a Wikipedia entry about Anatoly Fomenko's New Chronology of History. It describes his theories, methodology and arguments. His critics' counterarguments are summarized as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

Here's the entry on Anatoly Fomenko himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Fomenko
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Postby MrPeabody » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:14 am

Here is one way to look at it. According to the out of Africa theory, man first left Africa 50,000 years ago. If you take, as a rule of thumb, 25 years per generation, that gives you 2000 generations. In only 2000 generations we went from the Stone Age to where we are now. To me, it seems amazing that so much was accomplished in such a short period of time. If anything, it's a mystery why it didn't take longer.
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Postby Teal Lantern » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:18 am

Winston wrote:Here is a Wikipedia entry about Anatoly Fomenko's New Chronology of History. It describes his theories, methodology and arguments. His critics' counterarguments are summarized as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

Here's the entry on Anatoly Fomenko himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Fomenko

Ancient history revised? Meh.
How about recent history? I'd be interested in his opinion about a particular Tuesday in 2001. :D
не поглеждай назад. 8)

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Postby Taco » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:56 am

History is just propaganda about the past. Most of what your taught in school in the areas of History and Social Science is a complete lie.
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Re:

Postby Winston » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:16 am

The_Adventurer wrote:I've never trusted skeptics, for the very reason that they are willing to accept the official version of things without a shred of proof but require unrealistic amounts of evidence to accept any other possibility.

I find it interesting that one of the reviews says forget "Forbidden Archaeology", which is interesting because that book goes in the very opposite direction make history much much longer than previously imagined and showing possibly great advancements in millennia old societies.

I am always curious about history, and it is not hard for me to imagine that it could all fall apart with a single discovery.


Hey Terrence,
Check this out. Your quote above was quoted in an article of The Epoch Times, which put a link back to this thread. Congrats! Some of my points on SCEPCOP was quoted as well.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/603148-what-is-unhealthy-skepticism/
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Re: Was Ancient History a hoax invented during the Renaissan

Postby Mr.Darcy » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:02 pm

Winston? I would like bring up the instituted racism history curriculum in the USA. It makes undermine the achievements of other minorities historical achievements, but makes the white anglo saxon male look like God's angel. Also, white supremacists have cherry picked history. Whites did not begin accepting Mediterraneans until they found out about the Romans and Ancient Greeks. They also cloak the true African history of ancient egypt.
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Re:

Postby Taco » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:01 pm

Winston wrote:Btw, the founder of this theory is supposed to be a mathematics genius from Moscow State University. He has written telephone sized books about it which you can get from Amazon.com. The readers on Amazon said that he does make a compelling case, though they are not sure that everything he says is correct. The thing is, he claims to base his claims on real serious scientific analysis, which historians do not usually do.

Here is his first volume of work:

History: Fiction or Science?
http://www.amazon.com/History-mathematical-statistics-Eclipses-Chronology/dp/2913621074/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292311550&sr=8-1-spell

Review

Earth was flat. Humans saw that it was flat, books were telling scholars that it was flat, teachers were teaching students it was flat; scientists knew it was flat. There was some disagreement about the way it was kept afloat, most common versions were elephants, whales and turtles, but that was subject for scientific discussion. Until Magellan sailed around the globe and proved all this science wrong. This book is precisely about same situation. Although it is written for casual reader, it still bears all the traits of scientific research. Anyway, history as a science is based on books written by previous generation of historians, who based their works on works of previous generation of historians, supplemented by archeological digs (great deal of assumptions was made there too, as people didn't usually mark their belongings with dates), so it definitely needs some mathematical treatment. It is very difficult to digest the new version of history from Fomenko without getting allergic shock. Official timeline is accepted in the same way as gravity, and movement of the sun; many nations have developed their identity based on official history. Literally speaking chronology is in our culture, in our roots, personal identity. Someone said here that this book was written by Russian nationalist to reassure Russian national identity. May be so, but I think for Russians will be very difficult to swallow that they were actually Mongols and Tatars too. This book will turn your world upside down. Literally. --New Book Review, 03-03-2007 (CA, USA)

History: Fiction Or Science? is a quite scholarly expose of the extreme limitations of our understanding of human history. So few physical records have survived hundreds, let alone thousands of years that it casts even the most conventional understanding of what really happened into doubt. Chapters address the problems of historical chronology in general, astronomical datings, astronomy in the Old Testament, methods of dating ancient events via mathematical statistics, the construction of a global chronological map, the Dark Ages, and much more. Black-and-white illustrations add a vivid touch to this scholarly work that may appear controversial yet deals with a very serious issue directly affecting humanity's comprehension of its own past. --Midwest Book Review (Oregon, WI USA)

Product Description

History: Fiction or Science? is the most explosive tractate on history ever written - however, every theory it contains, no matter how unorthodox, is backed by solid scientific data. The book is well-illustrated, contains over 446 graphs and illustrations, copies of ancient manuscripts, and countless facts attesting to the falsity of the chronology used nowadays, which never cease to amaze the reader. Eminent mathematician proves that: Jesus Christ was born in 1153 and crucified in 1186 The Old Testament refers to mediaeval events. Apocalypse was written after 1486. Does this sound uncanny? This version of events is substantiated by hard facts and logic - validated by new astronomical research and statistical analysis of ancient sources - to a greater extent than everything you may have read and heard about history before. The dominating historical discourse in its current state was essentially crafted in the XVI century from a rather contradictory jumble of sources such as innumerable copies of ancient Latin and Greek manuscripts whose originals had vanished in the Dark Ages and the allegedly irrefutable proof offered by late mediaeval astronomers, resting upon the power of ecclesial authorities. Nearly all of its components are blatantly untrue! For some of us, it shall possibly be quite disturbing to see the magnificent edifice of classical history to turn into an ominous simulacrum brooding over the snake pit of mediaeval politics. Twice so, in fact: the first seeing the legendary millenarian dust on the ancient marble turn into a mere layer of dirt - one that meticulous unprejudiced research can eventually remove. The second, and greater, attack of unease comes with the awareness of just how many areas of human knowledge still trust the three elephants of the consensual chronology to support them. Nothing can remedy that except for an individual chronological revolution happening in the minds of a large enough number of people.


There's a reason why society is set up so that you don't have much free time. In your youth, school keeps you busy. In your adult life, work keeps you busy. In your spare time, the mainstream media holds your attention with the official version of things. The reason for all this is that if you have too much free time to think about everything, eventually you realize that you are a slave on a prison planet and that most of what you are told are hogwash, lies and gross distortions. That's the scary part, that when you have too much free time, you discover a lot of disturbing things, not just in terms of conspiracies, but about the state of existence itself. We are kept from all that by society that keeps us busy and distracted.


This is true. Basically, everything you've been told your entire life is a lie. Education controls the flow of information so you never learn too much. However, the internet changed this which is why one day it will be censored.

"Everyone is taught from an early age that 'conspiracy theories' are the greatest folly, when --in truth-- conspiracy theory represents the threshold to worldly wisdom."

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Re: Was Ancient History a hoax invented during the Renaissan

Postby Winston » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:56 pm

Wikipedia says Anatoly Fomenko's work is wrong though, because he doesn't explain why we have coins and artifacts from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece. But of course, Wikipedia is controlled by the establishment as is highly biased on controversial topics. Here is Wikipedia's lengthy debunking of Anatoly Fomenko's historical revisionism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Fomenko

Historical revisionism[edit]

Fomenko is a supporter of drastically revising historical chronology. He has created his own revision called New Chronology, based on statistical correlations, dating of zodiacs, and by examining the mathematics and astronomy involved in chronology. Fomenko claims that he has discovered that many historical events do not correspond mathematically with the dates they are supposed to have occurred on. He asserts from this that all of ancient history (including the history of Greece, Rome, and Egypt) is just a reflection of events that occurred in the Middle Ages and that all of Chinese and Arab history are fabrications of 17th and 18th century Jesuits.

He also claims that Jesus lived in the 12th century A.D. and was crucified on Joshua's Hill; that the Trojan War and the Crusades were the same historical event; and that Genghis Khan and the Mongols were actually Russians. As well as disputing written chronologies, Fomenko also disputes more objective dating techniques such as dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating (see here for an examination of the latter criticism). His books include Empirico-statistical Analysis of Narrative Material and Its Applications and History: Fiction or Science?.

Most Russian scientists and worldwide historians considered Fomenko's historical works to be pseudoscientific.[2][3][4]
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Re: Was Ancient History a hoax invented during the Renaissan

Postby starchild5 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:00 am

They are the same people....The guys in Rome, Egypt, Babylonia, Sumer are still here with us ..they are now living in America.

Its the same blueprint of lies and deception...They are snake people...extremely intelligent..and live like for ever...They don't die...

Death has been made a big deal for humans. Its not really difficult not to die, you can easily live for ever...You just make sure, your amino acid chain in DNA do not break down as you get old and have constant supply of good proteins to your DNA.

Gold, Silver, Copper can do that you...plus other chemicals which are unknown to man due to secrecy.

All history is manipulated because we die...

Also, now they have technology of consciousness transfer, you get a new body with same mind and live for ever...

All our thinking is twisted and it starts with death.

All the skeptic, debunkers will vanish if you never die.

They are heavily invested in making sure that we die one day. It is the greatest scam on earth.

If you think death is natural..You are mind controlled.

God never intended for his creation to die...That would be diabolically satanic...why would god ever put a set time on his creation....??

You can live for ever like how elites do...The blue bloods...History is manipulated for THIS REASON ALONE...DEATH
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