How Are Things In Europe?

[publicduende]

For our purposes here at HA, the purpose of connecting and making a new life overseas, if all the good Lombards of Milano are tucked away safely in their homes, cocooning, then the city is INDEED majority immigrant -- for our purposes.

I take your point and I might well agree with it. Counter-point is: the native majority (or quasi-majority) in a given location is in no obligation to behave in a certain way to please the occasional tourist or love seeker...or is it?

This is something I used to tell Eurobrat back in the days: when in Rome, do as Romans do. It's that simple. If it's all about closely knit social circles and you want to spend time in a bar thinking your destiny will serve you a good one with a beer and a side of chips, then feel free - but disappointment might ensue. If you read one of his latest posts about Berlin, he's talking about having a job that integrated him well in the local scene, friends and house parties. He didn't really "crack the code", he simply learned to go with the local flow.

And besides...if 50% you find on the streets of Glendale California are Filipinos, does it mean any tourist can start talking to a cute Fil-Am on his first day hitting the road? That doesn't sound so bad

[Jester]

And besides...if 50% you find on the streets of Glendale California are Filipinos, does it mean any tourist can start talking to a cute Fil-Am on his first day hitting the road? That doesn't sound so bad

Haha I will fill you in a little on that when we finally meet...

[S_Parc]

if you go to Glendale California, you see 95% Armenians on the streets, except at the Americana Mall which has a regional draw. Schoolkids are 50% Filipino, 50% Armenian.

OFFICIALLY, Glendale is majority White. So where are all the Whites?

Jester, in New England, esp the 'burbs of Boston, Armenians are white. They are not considered some subnationality, like the Cajuns, Hawaiians, Pennsylvania Dutch, etc.

What you're talking about is a concept known as ethnic enclave. And yes, like Armenians, the Greeks of New England are white, despite attending a different church than the Irish or the Italians.

This was the case my entire life. I'd even say that in greater Boston, the Armenian diaspora (if you can even call it that, since many 3rd/4th generation have never visited former Armenia.S.S.R) is one of the most highly respected non-British clubhouses in the region.

If you meet an Armenian-American in Massachusetts and he tells you that he's not *white*, I'll buy you a drink.

[S_Parc]

Jester, let me help illustrate my p.o.v with a contemporary example. The current Boston bomber, Tsarnaev, is the most hated person in New England because of the bombings, not because of his Chechen ethnicity. If he were let's say a member of the Orthodox or if liberal … the Unitarian church and he never did a bad thing in his life, since he was interested in health care at UM, then perhaps today, he'd be in some physician's assistant training program. By his mid-to-late 20s, he'd be a respected member of the community, basically, a good white/ethnic kid with a good career path.

On the other hand, the children of east Asian parents will never be white/ethnic. In some ways, they'll always be seen as children of ex-pats because America assimilates whites from around the world. This is why your perspective of Armenians baffles me because in Boston, even the Irish mainstay would rather have everyone who sees themselves as "different", be of Armenian background than Hispanic or Asian. And as for the so-called Boston Irish, many of them are at best 50% (or less) of Irish background. The general white population is a mix of Irish, British, German, Italian, and others, though higher concentration of Irish backgrounds are more common for Boston.

So Asians (different race), Latinos (differing language & sometimes differing races) are unconsciously treated as threats to mainstream America. Sure, in public, you don't see whites talking in those xenophobic ways but on the inside, many do feel that way. The fact that the Boston bomber threw away a chance at a good life, just to be a d*ck, given the fact that Putin, not Uncle Sam, was Chechnya’s enemy, tells me something about our society. Imagine if the bomber were Indonesian? You'd probably see a lot of angry whites, asking for the Indonesian diasporic communities to be deported, to stop terrorism. So far, ppl (in terms of volume) are not asking eastern Europeaners to leave America.

[eurobrat]

And besides...if 50% you find on the streets of Glendale California are Filipinos, does it mean any tourist can start talking to a cute Fil-Am on his first day hitting the road? That doesn't sound so bad

Haha I will fill you in a little on that when we finally meet...

This is such bullshit Jester, it's not 50%. We all know Glendale is little Armenia.
Now if you go to Filipino town then you will find 50% Filipinos and 50% Mexicans.

[S_Parc]

We all know Glendale is little Armenia.

Circa Boston, Little Armenia is Watertown MA, though Armenians also live in many of the other towns as well, but in smaller percentages.

[Jester]

Jester, in New England, esp the 'burbs of Boston, Armenians are white. They are not considered some subnationality, like the Cajuns, Hawaiians, Pennsylvania Dutch, etc.

What you're talking about is a concept known as ethnic enclave. And yes, like Armenians, the Greeks of New England are white, despite attending a different church than the Irish or the Italians.

This was the case my entire life. I'd even say that in greater Boston, the Armenian diaspora (if you can even call it that, since many 3rd/4th generation have never visited former Armenia.S.S.R) is one of the most highly respected non-British clubhouses in the region.

If you meet an Armenian-American in Massachusetts and he tells you that he's not *white*, I'll buy you a drink.

+1

Yes all true. My family was part of the big post-Genocide wave of immigrants in the 1920's.

I was raised to consider Armenians to be White... but "special". Really.

But things have changed now with the critical mass of Armenian newcomers flooding into the USA, especially Glendale. Most of the newcomers are now highly ethnocentric former-FSU folks.

The cultural gap with White Californians of Northern European ancestry is huge. We don't agree on anything... except having a nice house.

So essentially we have rehabilitated the term "White", which from the seventies had become a pejorative label meaning "not Black", and restricted it a bit so that it can serve as a useful descriptive label for Whites of European ancestry - excluding Latin Americans.

Although you have to include Russians as "White" -- they sure don't act like it.


PS I amuse my kids by letting them know that their dad is half-Armenian, and MY dad was full Armenian, and HIS dad was an actual Klingon.

[Jester]

And besides...if 50% you find on the streets of Glendale California are Filipinos, does it mean any tourist can start talking to a cute Fil-Am on his first day hitting the road? That doesn't sound so bad

Haha I will fill you in a little on that when we finally meet...

This is such bullshit Jester, it's not 50%. We all know Glendale is little Armenia.
Now if you go to Filipino town then you will find 50% Filipinos and 50% Mexicans.

Here's what I actually said:

if you go to Glendale California, you see 95% Armenians on the streets, except at the Americana Mall which has a regional draw. Schoolkids are 50% Filipino, 50% Armenian.

I don't know where all the Filipino schoolkids are coming from. You never see the adults.

[eurobrat]

And besides...if 50% you find on the streets of Glendale California are Filipinos, does it mean any tourist can start talking to a cute Fil-Am on his first day hitting the road? That doesn't sound so bad

Haha I will fill you in a little on that when we finally meet...

This is such bullshit Jester, it's not 50%. We all know Glendale is little Armenia.
Now if you go to Filipino town then you will find 50% Filipinos and 50% Mexicans.

Here's what I actually said:

if you go to Glendale California, you see 95% Armenians on the streets, except at the Americana Mall which has a regional draw. Schoolkids are 50% Filipino, 50% Armenian.

I don't know where all the Filipino schoolkids are coming from. You never see the adults.

My apologies, Public Duende made it out to seem as if there was 50% filipinos in Glendale.

[publicduende]

My apologies, Public Duende made it out to seem as if there was 50% filipinos in Glendale.

I just meant that as a joke - if so many Filipinos are out and about in Glendale than at least some of them would be cute Filipinas...

[S_Parc]

+1

Yes all true. My family was part of the big post-Genocide wave of immigrants in the 1920's.

I was raised to consider Armenians to be White... but "special". Really.

But things have changed now with the critical mass of Armenian newcomers flooding into the USA, especially Glendale. Most of the newcomers are now highly ethnocentric former-FSU folks.

The cultural gap with White Californians of Northern European ancestry is huge. We don't agree on anything... except having a nice house.

So essentially we have rehabilitated the term "White", which from the seventies had become a pejorative label meaning "not Black", and restricted it a bit so that it can serve as a useful descriptive label for Whites of European ancestry - excluding Latin Americans.

Although you have to include Russians as "White" -- they sure don't act like it.


PS I amuse my kids by letting them know that their dad is half-Armenian, and MY dad was full Armenian, and HIS dad was an actual Klingon.

My theory is that California is not New England. California is an airhead society where newcomers will feel like they'd entered some wannabe *bleach blonde bimbo* Northern European descended state. I believe the Kardashians, who're part Armenian, is symbolic of that kind of thinking. Thus, if you meet transplanted Bostonians in SoCal (or even the SFBA), they'll always tell you how authentic their upbringing was, versus their new environment.

What New England has, is a society which started back in colonial times. In effect, what happened to the Irish, from the late 1800s to today, is that they made the region, Anglo-Celtic. And thus, as time goes by, each grouping becomes another piece of a fabric, going back to the Mayflower generation. Thus, all categories of white, are pretty assimilated including the newer Armenians, Russians, etc. Many of these folks, never speak their parents' languages, outside of the home. This is where the divide between Latinos and ethnic whites is formed. A slew of Latinos will speak Spanish in public and that's where a lot of the rift is occurring. I believe this is the nexus of the strife between the Anglo-Celtic majority and the Latin based communities. The creation of the Boston bomber was a result of his affiliation with some crazy Imams, not the fact that he was perceived as a lifelong outsider in the region. Normally, a kid like him would be an American physician's assistant today.

[Jester]

What New England has, is a society which started back in colonial times. In effect, what happened to the Irish, from the late 1800s to today, is that they made the region, Anglo-Celtic. And thus, as time goes by, each grouping becomes another piece of a fabric, going back to the Mayflower generation. Thus, all categories of white, are pretty assimilated including the newer Armenians, Russians, etc. Many of these folks, never speak their parents' languages, outside of the home.

All of that exactly matches my experiences in Boston in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

Incidentally, I think New England really feels like a distinct nation.

[S_Parc]

What New England has, is a society which started back in colonial times. In effect, what happened to the Irish, from the late 1800s to today, is that they made the region, Anglo-Celtic. And thus, as time goes by, each grouping becomes another piece of a fabric, going back to the Mayflower generation. Thus, all categories of white, are pretty assimilated including the newer Armenians, Russians, etc. Many of these folks, never speak their parents' languages, outside of the home.

All of that exactly matches my experiences in Boston in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

Incidentally, I think New England really feels like a distinct nation.

Sh*t, I was a baby during those years

And we had great Boston area, national bands. Mel and I consider this to be our collective regional heritage.



Things have really gone south in the new millenia

[eurobrat]

PS I amuse my kids by letting them know that their dad is half-Armenian, and MY dad was full Armenian, and HIS dad was an actual Klingon.

[Wolfeye]

Guys, not to be a ball-buster, but does anyone have information like I was asking about earlier? I'm talking about like the beginning of this thread or the very bottom of page 3. Like how cops in Germany (from what I've heard) are a lot like the cops in America, but they don't go ape-shit crazy as often. The whole "catching one of their bullets & any kind of sentencing for it" is a concern. I figure it's perfectly plausible for them to preserve their employment by locking me the f**k up for being hit with THEIR f**k-up.

It's also interesting to me that they get FIRED from their job instead of getting locked up. I don't see an accountant stealing from clients & just getting fired. I don't see a cab driver getting a suspended license for running people over on the sidewalk. I don't see a firefighter getting a paid vacation for lighting up someone's house, much less their dog or cat.