Winston in China! Updates and Photos

[Winston]

I was wrong about something. Cold approach does work in China. I've been getting a new number every day for about 10 days now. Sometimes two numbers a day. But the thing is, I have to approach a lot of girls or see who looks friendly first. Maybe only 1 or 2 girls out of 10 will respond with friendliness toward a cold approach.

Either way, my dating and social life in China is definitely A LOT better and comes more NATURALLY than it does in Taiwan or USA. That's for sure. I have a lot more dates and met a lot more women here than I ever did in Taiwan. And I mean A LOT more. So my life is definitely more active here. Even if most of those dates don't go anywhere, at least I'm active and about, so I lose weight and walk more. Plus since I'm not as depressed as I was in Taiwan or USA, I don't overeat or eat junk food to fill my void like I did in Taiwan or USA, so that helps me to lose weight as well, in addition to walking more and being more active here because I have more to do.

[Winston]

I have a question and decision to make here that I would like some input on.

Should I get out of Shenzhen?

I do meet a lot of women here. But many of them are busy with work and seem to have very materialistic values. Some even drop hints or tell me directly that I need to buy a house and car first before they will take me seriously. One woman even went so far as to say that it's not possible for a guy to get a girlfriend in China without being able to buy her a house first, which is total bullshit because most couples in China do NOT have a house, but are living in an apartment and both working and saving to buy one in the future. So I don't know why I get such ridiculous statements from Chinese women. She even told me that 99 percent of Chinese women will want a house and car first before they will get into a serious relationship with me and that they do not do casual dating. However, that seems like bullshit because:

1. Rock and Ethan_sg and others, have had Chinese girlfriends and slept with Chinese women, without buying a house for them or promising to do so. Their women did not ask them to buy a house. So why do mine? Am I a magnet for users? Or just unlucky again with Murphy's Law? Or am I not good enough to have a normal relationship with normal sex, where women like me for me?

2. I see many young couples everywhere in public in China who are happily in love. They do not have any kind of house or business or great income. Why can't I have that too?

3. A house in China costs a lot, sometimes more than in the USA even. So there's no way that every guy who has a girlfriend in China has a house to give her. That makes no sense and is impossible.

So I don't get why the Chinese women I meet seem more interested in practical benefits than a real relationship. Rock told me that a woman who is overly practical and treats a romantic relationship as a business relationship is only going to use me and that it can only end badly. He avoids such women who have strong practical objectives in mind.

However, some Chinese women tell me that that's how all Chinese women think so I will find the same in the rest of China. They claim that 99 percent of Chinese women need financial security first before they can fall in love with a man. Is that true? If so, then how do you explain the above? Who is right here?

Rock told me that Shenzhen is a magnet for materialistic women who are focused on making money and achieving material goals. So it's better to seek love in other cities. Plus Shenzhen is modern and new, only 30 years old, and does not represent China, since it has no historical buildings like older cities do. Rock also told me that Chinese girls who want love and romance can usually get it from male classmates or workmates. So the ones online or still single after 30 must have other objectives in mind.

On the other hand, Ethan_sg thinks it's better for me to stay in Shenzhen because I already built up a network of contacts here and already have one down to earth woman interested in me. If I go to another city, he says, I will have to start from scratch. He also said that Shenzhen is a great melting pot of women from all over China, who do not live with their parents and thus are able to stay out late or sleep over at my place without curfew. And he says that most women I find online will be from Shenzhen rather than from other cities, which does seem to be true. Also, some women in Shenzhen told me that this city is the best place to live because it is clean, safe, modern, and has good infrastructure. It also has warm weather all year too (but for me that's a downside since I like cold weather).

What do all think? Will I find the same type of women all over China, as some say? Or not, as Rock says?

I mean being materialistic is one thing, which is normal since we do live in a materialistic world, but expecting a guy to buy a house and car, or open a business first, before he can become some woman's boyfriend, sounds ridiculous and exaggerated. A guy shouldn't have to buy a house and car before he can get laid. Gee whiz!

What do you all think? Any suggestions?

Rock, Momopi, Falcon, what do you think? What do you suggest?

PS - Get this: Some women here are downright delusional. One short homely plain woman I met from OkCupid who was very average looking, even expected me to buy her a pair of $50 shoes on our first date! lol. The thing is, she looked innocent and nice and was educated and intelligent, and she even spoke good English and had been to Texas before. So that was a bit of a surprise. I mean, doesn't she know that the purpose of a first date is to get to know each other? I don't even know if I like her yet. Yet she tried to use our first date as a chance to try to get me to buy her a pair of $50 shoes because she needed them? Wtf kind of logic is that? I don't get it. Plus she was 35 and not young or pretty enough to attract a sugar daddy or be a sugar baby. So what was she smoking or thinking?! Very weird and inexplicable.

[Rock]

Shenzhen may or may not be the place for you. But this is your virgin trip so it's a discovery tour. There's so much to see in China that it would be a downright shame to only make it as far as Shenzhen which is kinda a hybrid sort of place.

Wouldn't it be fun to get on the high speed rail and hit some second and third tier cities (even see fourth tier cities and countryside). Experience how people change from city to city and region to region. Hit historic sites and that will energize you and take your focus away from only meeting women. When you were in E. Europe/Russia you did that and it added a very important dimension to your trips and dating there.

The last time I met many locals in China was several years ago. But during the periods when I was active in China, I didn't meet any genuine friends in Shenzhen. Ditto for Guangzhou. But I had better luck in Qingdao, Changchun, Chengdu, and Chongqing. Maybe things are quite different now. But if you only go as far as Shenzhen, you haven't really seen real China first hand. Shenzhen is an artificial city. Before Deng opened it up and it got enriched by massive investment plus money flowing in from HK and other non-mainland Chinese guys, it was a tiny village.

By the way, when a girl says house in China, she probably means apartment. Houses (in the American sense) in China located reasonably close to even a second tier city are probably going to be extremely expensive. Keep in mind, China has about the same land mass as USA but 5 or 6 times as many people. The cheapest property I've seen so far there are apartments in parts of Dongguan. I was surprised at how cheap some of the listing were. And remember, it's really a very long term lease. Cus the land belongs to the government.

You know Winston, I think your relatives in Taiwan told you about how materialistic mainland women are. I sure hope you can prove them wrong by finding some great women who don't fit that.

I can understand a woman wanting financial security. A lot of Chinese women seem to be quite smart and calculating. They don't want you to play them and then toss them aside after you tire of them. They don't wanna become your second Dianne stuck with kid and only a subsistence allowance from you.

I believe woman in China have become increasingly aware over the last decade of their scarcity value. So their self-worth has risen commensurately. Just consider how much pickier many men become when they go to a country where it's easy for them to date attractive women vs. how they lower their standards in the Anglo world. Just like men, women can do the math as well and just may adjust their expectations accordingly.

But, anyway, the ones worth considering should at least date you a few times first to figure out whether or not there is any romantic chemistry. I'm sure there are still some like that. Then if mutual attraction grows, you can talk about practical issues.

With the ones who wanna talk practical matters first before any romantic dating, you would be getting yourself into a relationship with a woman who has very different values than you and/or she's been burned before and carries a massive amount of baggage. Either scenario is a formula for disaster. Fortunately, you don't have assets in your name nor anything much over US min wage in terms of income. If you ever do get anything, you can always put it in the name of your parents to protect against any woman you might marry or get heavily involved with. So the main benefit a Chinese girl can get from you is a US green card and eventually citizenship. You're not really very strong bait for pure gold digger.

Anyway, try to travel so you can see more and meet a more diverse range of people. Location location location. There's a lot more to China than Shenzhen and while Shenzhen may have people from all over China just as Shanghai and Beijing do, it's a filtered subset, filtered for a bias towards careerism and materialism. I'm surprised Ethan wants you to stay there and not explore the coast and hinterland.

[momopi]

...how about fujian?

[ethan_sg]

Hey guys, ok here's what I really told Winston. I said that there are quite a few reasons why I think he should currently base himself in Shenzhen but I did not say that he should not visit more inland provinces and cities.

1. As Winston cannot read or type Chinese, he is heavily reliant on English dating websites and apps. Tier 2 and 3 cities being smaller in population and with even less girls who can speak a reasonable standard of English, are going to offer a much much smaller selection of women on English dating websites - in many cases, probably no more than a handful. Therefore by staying in a tier 1 city, Winston has a much larger pool/selection of women that he can get to know through dating sites and apps. Now if he was able to use Chinese-language dating sites and apps like me, the situation would be quite different, because then even the smaller cities would still offer you a reasonable selection. In a tier 2 and 3 city, Winston would be heavily reliant on cold approach, which is not all a bad thing - but why limit your options when you get a much wider selection here?

2. Diversity - smaller cities have a smaller diversity of girls from all over China. In Shenzhen you meet women from all parts of China.

3. Shenzhen is a migrant city - there are probably more women in Shenzhen not originally from Shenzhen than in any other city in China. A big benefit of this is that many women working here are living alone or with their friends, and not with their family. This is more the case in Shenzhen than anywhere else in China. This brings with it 2 huge benefits: A) Girls have freedom to stay over at your place or even move in together with you without having to answer to their parents - we all know that the easiest situation to get laid is when a girl stays overnight with you. B) You don't have to worry about having to constantly meet her family and have to take them out or win their approval - they are so far away that you will probably only meet them once things reach a serious stage.

4. Public transportation in tier 1 cities in China now is top class with the subway being essentially ubiquitous despite the sizes of these cities. Shanghai for instance has a total of 15 or 16 subway lines. Together with my ability to use Baidu maps, this means that I actually never have to even take a cab around the city if I don't want to (although this is of course sometimes necessary if you're out late on dates etc.) This is not the case in tier 2 or 3 cities because many of them don't have subways yet while a lot of those that do only have 1 or 2 lines and therefore do not go to many parts of the city. Now in spending time with Winston in Shenzhen I can see how he's actually quite a frugal guy which makes sense because while his passive income is steady, it is by no means high. Considering the amount of traveling within the city that he does to meet women - nearly on a daily basis now considering the number of dates Winston is getting over here - being able to rely on public transportation saves Winston lots of money. And it does make a difference for someone who dates as much as he is now doing. In tier 2 and 3 cities, the main transportation mode would be take cabs around. While cabs are comparatively inexpensive in China, they're still nowhere as cheap as taking the metro/subway. Hotels cost about the same in tier 2 and 3 cities while housing is certainly cheaper - however this doesn't apply to Winston because at the moment he has no intention of signing a long term rental lease so that he is not tied down.

5. Winston is in absolutely no hurry. He possesses both Taiwanese and American citizenship. Being Taiwanese offers Winston a whole range of long term visa options due to its links with China. Americans are now also entitled to 10 year business visa which any visa company here can help apply for you. Imagine if Winston gets that 10 year business visa, he would have all the time in the world - he doesn't need to hurry from 1 city to another.

6. I'm not suggesting that Winston doesn't visit tier 2 and 3 cities at all or go to the more inland provinces. I just think that there's no rush. He can even base himself in Shenzhen and take visits to other parts but not necessarily stay there unless he finds some genuine gems. Winston is gradually building up a huge network of not just dating prospects, but also contacts and friends in Shenzhen - people seem so much more social here than they are in developed westernized cities. It would be a pity for Winston to throw it all away and start from scratch again at a new city. There is no need or hurry to do that now.

7. Winston already has a woman over here who likes him - essentially what looks like it's gonna be his second girlfriend in China already despite only being here for just over a month. Not bad for a guy who couldn't get any dates in Taiwan huh? The only reason why Winston hasn't fully accepted this girl yet is because he has so many other dating prospects that he's keeping in touch with on his Wechat contact list that he can see it would be a waste to settle too soon! I don't blame him.

Personally I've spent a lot of time in tier 1 cities myself and while it does bring many benefits such as all those I've stated above, I would also be interested to spend more time checking out tier 2 and 3 cities in future with Winston if possible, but there is no hurry and no compelling need to do so at the moment.

In Shanghai and Shenzhen I've dated girls from all parts of China - from Heilongjiang in the North to Sichuan in the West and Zhejiang in the East, and Guangdong in the South. The diversity is great. Virtually none of the girls I've dated have ever pressured me to be buying a house or car, although I am on the verge of starting my own e-business over here, and the girls I meet are usually aware of that. I've told Winston before - the media likes to exaggerate the materialism of Chinese women - because that's what they want Chinese women to become - materialistic feminist brand-obsessed image-obsessed high spending self-centered consumerist bitches - like their sisters in developed Asian cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore have become. But while things are gradually deteriorating, I feel they are nowhere near as bad as Tokyo, Hong Kong or Singapore yet. The marriage stats also seem to prove that - the marriage rates are much higher in China than in developed Asian countries. Yet the cost of buying a house in China is almost as high, especially in tier 1 cities, as in developed Asian cities, despite the salaries being much lower. High marriage rate, low income and expensive housing. Put that all together and logic tells you that a lot of people are still getting married without actually buying a house in the city they work in. In many cases they even buy houses within their hometown or home (small city) which is much more affordable - but they don't actually live there because they are renting and working in the big city. So I feel that while this materialistic mindset is something that the powers that be that controls the media are trying to drive the women towards, things are nowhere near as bad as what the media paints. Most women I meet are aware of that mindset, but don't actually agree with it. But who knows, 10 to 20 years from now?

[Winston]

Rock, you are right of course. Ethan_sg makes some good points as well, though I think his summations of my situation here seem a bit overly optimistic. lol. But of course, since he is younger, taller and thinner than me, his dating experiences are going to be better than mine, and with better quality girls too. That may explain his optimistic "look on the bright side" attitude. lol

Yes I do have one woman who seems interested in me but it's tentative only. You gotta remember that Chinese women are very analytical and they constantly re-evaluate their relationship with you. They can change their mind at any time and as we all know, women change their mind more often than men do. So you can't put too much stock in what a woman says, even if she likes you and puts out a lot of positive signs. Until she's been with you for a long time, nothing is for sure and you cannot just relax and assume it's smooth sailing with her. Also, she is kind of homely looking and just barely doable. That is another reason I'm not that excited about her, even though she seems nice and sincere.

But other than that, most of my dates here are either duds, or just consist of friendly conversation and hang outs. Btw, that 32 year old teacher I was excited about from the AFA socials seems to only have friendly feelings toward me, not romantic feelings. She is comfortable with me and enjoys talking to me, but she does not treat me like a romantic partner. So I'm putting her on the backburner for now.

Ethan_sg does mention a good point though. The dating pool in Shenzhen seems to be the largest. I've noticed on dating sites that most Chinese women are from Shenzhen. I don't know why that is though. I mean, don't other Chinese cities have internet access too? Why would Shenzhen have the highest percentage of women online seeking partners?

Also, is anyone going to address my questions in my previous post?

[zboy1]

I've never liked Shenzhen. I made a post about it a year ago. I told you how much I liked Guangzhou and Dongguan women WAYYYY better than either Shanghai or Shenzhen women. It's no contest in my opinion. I've been told that rural women are even better, in the far interior parts of China such as Chonqinq and Wuhan.

[xiongmao]

I only really dated two super materialistic Chinese women. One ended up marrying a rich American dude. The other one is way too picky (but at least she is honest enough to admit she likes rich men). Guess what - she's still single.

I weeded out most of the materialistic women before the dating stage. It's not hard to spot them.

I found Guangzhou and Shenzhen good for meeting women from a wide variety of backgrounds and provinces. I preferred living in Guangzhou as it had more in the way of tourist sites an general interestingness.

White guys seem to prefer Hunan ladies. They have good temperaments, nice skin colour and Guangdong province is awash with them.

More Sz ladies are on dating sites because there are less single eligible guys there, and there are far less foreigners there than in Gz.

I still think the best thing is to find a city you like and set up base there. I was doing quite well building a social circle in Guangzhou, and I went on to do similar in Bangkok.

I'll also say that dating takes a *lot* of effort. In China and Thailand it took up 2-3 hours a day trying to line up prospective dates.

BTW Winston, yes you're spot on about womens' minds. My friend found a great woman in Guangzhou, but he later found out she had 2 (or maybe more) boyfriends. And she seemed so nice!!!

[The_Adventurer]

Also, is anyone going to address my questions in my previous post?

I will try, at least based on my experiences after five years here. Ethan already answered some of your questions about Shenzhen. I was there last year and in all the places I went to, I only met one local woman. Everyone else I saw was from outside. It is an international trading hub and people from all over come there to work. Outsiders outnumber locals greatly. I almost never heard Guangdong language being spoken in public.

1. Rock and Ethan_sg and others, have had Chinese girlfriends and slept with Chinese women, without buying a house for them or promising to do so. Their women did not ask them to buy a house. So why do mine? Am I a magnet for users? Or just unlucky again with Murphy's Law? Or am I not good enough to have a normal relationship with normal sex, where women like me for me?

2. I see many young couples everywhere in public in China who are happily in love. They do not have any kind of house or business or great income. Why can't I have that too?

3. A house in China costs a lot, sometimes more than in the USA even. So there's no way that every guy who has a girlfriend in China has a house to give her. That makes no sense and is impossible.

1. This could be because they look like foreigners and you don't, at least not here. There may be more expectation for you to approach things the Chinese way. This could also be because of the previous explanation about Shenzhen. Girls in their hometown environment feel more safe and secure. They have tons of family and friends around, and you are on their turf. A young unmarried girl out in Shenzhen alone, especially if she came from a small town or village, feels very vulnerable. Security is probably very high on her list.

Also, this does not mean that girls don't expect Rock or Ethan to buy a house for them. There are still misconceptions about foreigners being rich in China, so it is likely automatically assume that they can, and there is no need to ask.

2. and 3. I am going to put these together as they both deal with the same issue. More young guys have a house than you might think. The reason is that their parents buy it for them. Since the advent of the one child rule, parents have a tendency to devote everything to that one child, often to the point of spoiling them rotten. (This does not bode will for the future, but that is another story) This is bad for both the boys and the girls. The girls being spoiled princesses who can't cook, clean, or pretty much do anything except spend your money. This is why it is better to go for late twenties or even thirties in China, rather than late teens or early twenties etc. Post 90's girls are lost.

Why is it also bad for the boys? Many are equally spoiled, and don't want to work. They already have iPhones, games, computers, and all good things, coming from parents, and therefore have little drive to go out and get things for themselves. Parents generally work their asses off, and you already know how Chinese are at saving money. Everything is for that one spoiled child. The economic boom that has made China what it is today has benefited those parents. Even farmers can take the plane now. I even saw a dirty farmer, walking on the side of the road with a cow, but he had an iPhone. People are retiring at 50 and living well. Everything still goes to that spoiled, lazy child.

Also, the economic boom in China meant the easy extension of credit. Everything is similar to how it was before the crash in the US. local doesn't need to pay that outrageous price you mention, where houses are more than in the USA. (This is not true of Shenzhen BTW, more like in Beijing or Shanghai. For how good it looks, Shenzhen is incredibly cheap) The local can get zero down and low interest rates. They are driving nice middle class cars and can get that house all on credit. Even in the small village where I live the number of cars is skyrocketing. You think these people can drop the cash for a Kia or Toyota? They probably only make 2500 to 3000 RMB per month. CREDIT, though, means they can get that house. Usually they get the car after they are together and since both work… you see?

This credit bubble could easily lead to some Taco style disaster scenarios, but for right now it is great for both young people and their parents, and everyone gets their house and car. It is kind of engineered, but it is working. If it can be sustained, who knows what the future will hold?

[celery2010]

Hey guys, ok here's what I really told Winston. I said that there are quite a few reasons why I think he should currently base himself in Shenzhen but I did not say that he should not visit more inland provinces and cities.

1. As Winston cannot read or type Chinese, he is heavily reliant on English dating websites and apps. Tier 2 and 3 cities being smaller in population and with even less girls who can speak a reasonable standard of English, are going to offer a much much smaller selection of women on English dating websites - in many cases, probably no more than a handful. Therefore by staying in a tier 1 city, Winston has a much larger pool/selection of women that he can get to know through dating sites and apps. Now if he was able to use Chinese-language dating sites and apps like me, the situation would be quite different, because then even the smaller cities would still offer you a reasonable selection. In a tier 2 and 3 city, Winston would be heavily reliant on cold approach, which is not all a bad thing - but why limit your options when you get a much wider selection here?

2. Diversity - smaller cities have a smaller diversity of girls from all over China. In Shenzhen you meet women from all parts of China.

3. Shenzhen is a migrant city - there are probably more women in Shenzhen not originally from Shenzhen than in any other city in China. A big benefit of this is that many women working here are living alone or with their friends, and not with their family. This is more the case in Shenzhen than anywhere else in China. This brings with it 2 huge benefits: A) Girls have freedom to stay over at your place or even move in together with you without having to answer to their parents - we all know that the easiest situation to get laid is when a girl stays overnight with you. B) You don't have to worry about having to constantly meet her family and have to take them out or win their approval - they are so far away that you will probably only meet them once things reach a serious stage.

4. Public transportation in tier 1 cities in China now is top class with the subway being essentially ubiquitous despite the sizes of these cities. Shanghai for instance has a total of 15 or 16 subway lines. Together with my ability to use Baidu maps, this means that I actually never have to even take a cab around the city if I don't want to (although this is of course sometimes necessary if you're out late on dates etc.) This is not the case in tier 2 or 3 cities because many of them don't have subways yet while a lot of those that do only have 1 or 2 lines and therefore do not go to many parts of the city. Now in spending time with Winston in Shenzhen I can see how he's actually quite a frugal guy which makes sense because while his passive income is steady, it is by no means high. Considering the amount of traveling within the city that he does to meet women - nearly on a daily basis now considering the number of dates Winston is getting over here - being able to rely on public transportation saves Winston lots of money. And it does make a difference for someone who dates as much as he is now doing. In tier 2 and 3 cities, the main transportation mode would be take cabs around. While cabs are comparatively inexpensive in China, they're still nowhere as cheap as taking the metro/subway. Hotels cost about the same in tier 2 and 3 cities while housing is certainly cheaper - however this doesn't apply to Winston because at the moment he has no intention of signing a long term rental lease so that he is not tied down.

5. Winston is in absolutely no hurry. He possesses both Taiwanese and American citizenship. Being Taiwanese offers Winston a whole range of long term visa options due to its links with China. Americans are now also entitled to 10 year business visa which any visa company here can help apply for you. Imagine if Winston gets that 10 year business visa, he would have all the time in the world - he doesn't need to hurry from 1 city to another.

6. I'm not suggesting that Winston doesn't visit tier 2 and 3 cities at all or go to the more inland provinces. I just think that there's no rush. He can even base himself in Shenzhen and take visits to other parts but not necessarily stay there unless he finds some genuine gems. Winston is gradually building up a huge network of not just dating prospects, but also contacts and friends in Shenzhen - people seem so much more social here than they are in developed westernized cities. It would be a pity for Winston to throw it all away and start from scratch again at a new city. There is no need or hurry to do that now.

7. Winston already has a woman over here who likes him - essentially what looks like it's gonna be his second girlfriend in China already despite only being here for just over a month. Not bad for a guy who couldn't get any dates in Taiwan huh? The only reason why Winston hasn't fully accepted this girl yet is because he has so many other dating prospects that he's keeping in touch with on his Wechat contact list that he can see it would be a waste to settle too soon! I don't blame him.

Personally I've spent a lot of time in tier 1 cities myself and while it does bring many benefits such as all those I've stated above, I would also be interested to spend more time checking out tier 2 and 3 cities in future with Winston if possible, but there is no hurry and no compelling need to do so at the moment.

In Shanghai and Shenzhen I've dated girls from all parts of China - from Heilongjiang in the North to Sichuan in the West and Zhejiang in the East, and Guangdong in the South. The diversity is great. Virtually none of the girls I've dated have ever pressured me to be buying a house or car, although I am on the verge of starting my own e-business over here, and the girls I meet are usually aware of that. I've told Winston before - the media likes to exaggerate the materialism of Chinese women - because that's what they want Chinese women to become - materialistic feminist brand-obsessed image-obsessed high spending self-centered consumerist bitches - like their sisters in developed Asian cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore have become. But while things are gradually deteriorating, I feel they are nowhere near as bad as Tokyo, Hong Kong or Singapore yet. The marriage stats also seem to prove that - the marriage rates are much higher in China than in developed Asian countries. Yet the cost of buying a house in China is almost as high, especially in tier 1 cities, as in developed Asian cities, despite the salaries being much lower. High marriage rate, low income and expensive housing. Put that all together and logic tells you that a lot of people are still getting married without actually buying a house in the city they work in. In many cases they even buy houses within their hometown or home (small city) which is much more affordable - but they don't actually live there because they are renting and working in the big city. So I feel that while this materialistic mindset is something that the powers that be that controls the media are trying to drive the women towards, things are nowhere near as bad as what the media paints. Most women I meet are aware of that mindset, but don't actually agree with it. But who knows, 10 to 20 years from now?

I think that people from places like Singapore sometimes have a slightly warped view of mainland China.

1) Dating sites don't really matter that much in China. You can definitely use dating sites, of course, but it is also very possible to meet women the natural way.

In my opinion this is much better. As someone else said, he doesn't need to settle for over 30 women, divorcees and leftovers. If you plan to spend some serious time in mainland, dating sites would just be one source for meeting women, and as everywhere else, the best ones tend not to be on dating sites.

2. Winston can do much, much better, meet much more genuine women outside of Shenzhen. I have no doubt about this. Shenzhen women are the most materialistic in China.

3. China is just absolutely huge, there is a lot of diversity. I definitely would recommend going to SW China, including places like Sichuan, Yunnan, Hunan, Nanning. Winston being more of a free spirit, may enjoy western China more, including NW China.

Winston despises robotic people who don't think for themselves and people who are too materialistic. Why go to the center of this? Eastern China is more industrialized, similar to how the west coast of Taiwan is very ugly and indutrialized whereas the east coast has a completely different vibe.

Let me sum it up. Shenzhen women are almost very similar to Taiwanese/Western women. Very selfish, materialistic, career oriented, etc, etc. Is this the type of woman you are seeking? Then stay in Shenzhen. Even the nicest country girl who has moved to Shenzhen, will be thinking about her career, her future, etc.

Let's make a similar analogy. Are there nice girls from Kansas in Manhattan? A few. And ones who have been there for less than 6 months. But the girls from Kansas who decide to move there are self-selected as wanting the fast paced, career oriented NYC lifestyle.

Then on the other hand, you can have some experiences in the rest of China that are almost magical. Places still almost untouched by the outside world. With all kinds of people, lifestyles and landscapes. Why not explore and try to find your favorite place?

Along the way, just through traveling alone, you'll meet a ton of girls. Join sites like QQ and chinese social networking sites. There are many other MUCH BETTER places than Shenzhen. Believe me. Much cheaper and places that have women from all over China all the same. Shenzhen again is the worst and the most similar to the west or hk/sg/tw.It is like a different country.

[Winston]

I think that people from places like Singapore sometimes have a slightly warped view of mainland China.

1) Dating sites don't really matter that much in China. You can definitely use dating sites, of course, but it is also very possible to meet women the natural way.

In my opinion this is much better. As someone else said, he doesn't need to settle for over 30 women, divorcees and leftovers. If you plan to spend some serious time in mainland, dating sites would just be one source for meeting women, and as everywhere else, the best ones tend not to be on dating sites.

2. Winston can do much, much better, meet much more genuine women outside of Shenzhen. I have no doubt about this. Shenzhen women are the most materialistic in China.

3. China is just absolutely huge, there is a lot of diversity. I definitely would recommend going to SW China, including places like Sichuan, Yunnan, Hunan, Nanning. Winston being more of a free spirit, may enjoy western China more, including NW China.

Winston despises robotic people who don't think for themselves and people who are too materialistic. Why go to the center of this? Eastern China is more industrialized, similar to how the west coast of Taiwan is very ugly and indutrialized whereas the east coast has a completely different vibe.

Let me sum it up. Shenzhen women are almost very similar to Taiwanese/Western women. Very selfish, materialistic, career oriented, etc, etc. Is this the type of woman you are seeking? Then stay in Shenzhen. Even the nicest country girl who has moved to Shenzhen, will be thinking about her career, her future, etc.

Let's make a similar analogy. Are there nice girls from Kansas in Manhattan? A few. And ones who have been there for less than 6 months. But the girls from Kansas who decide to move there are self-selected as wanting the fast paced, career oriented NYC lifestyle.

Then on the other hand, you can have some experiences in the rest of China that are almost magical. Places still almost untouched by the outside world. With all kinds of people, lifestyles and landscapes. Why not explore and try to find your favorite place?

Along the way, just through traveling alone, you'll meet a ton of girls. Join sites like QQ and chinese social networking sites. There are many other MUCH BETTER places than Shenzhen. Believe me. Much cheaper and places that have women from all over China all the same. Shenzhen again is the worst and the most similar to the west or hk/sg/tw.It is like a different country.

In what way do Singaporeans have a warped view of mainland China? Ethan obviously has an optimistic view of China as a dating hotspot. I would imagine that Sinaporeans generally have a negative view of China, similar to that of Taiwan.

Thanks for your optimistic view of my potential in China. But some are bashing me saying that I have no chance in China cause I'm a loser and unlikable. You haven't met me before, so you don't know my personality right? You should ask guys who have spent a lot of time with me like Rock or Steve55 or WorldTraveler or Ladislav or Mr S. They have a lot more first hand knowledge of me.

What is your experience in China and how do you know so much about Shenzhen and whether it's good or bad?

Also, how do you explain why so many guys out in public in Shenzhen, have hot girlfriends here, including foreign and white guys?

Yes I am getting better at cold approaching in China. It is definitely a way to meet girls, however I've noticed that I tend to meet girls in person when I don't expect to, not when I am trying to. Sort of like a Murphy's Law thing, where things only come when you aren't trying or when you aren't looking.

But how can you compare Shenzhen to Taipei? Shenzhen girls are not paranoid and do not have super cold body language. I get A TON of a lot more dates and meetings with girls in Shenzhen than with girls in Taipei. Just because they are both materialistic doesn't mean they are the same in other aspects.

You can ask Ethan_sg about it. Just earlier tonight when we were walking back to the subway station in the rain, we stopped at this hair salon to ask directions. While doing so I flirted with this really cute girl at the door. I asked her number and she gave me her WeChat ID and added me. When we left, she immediately contacted me saying she forgot to lend us an umbrella since it was rainy tonight. Then she asked if I got home safely and had dry clothes to change into. It's odd that a stranger would be that concerned about me. But I guess in China, strangers can be very hospitable and warm. That wouldn't happen with a young cute girl in Taiwan, that's for sure. So how do you explain that?

A tip for you all:

One thing I've noticed while cold approaching girls in China or flirting with them, is that it helps if I do it in a joking way, like a comedian does when he's telling jokes, while laughing or chuckling at the same time. That way it doesn't come across as too creepy or serious. And it makes the atmosphere more lighthearted. So that's one way to cold approach girls in Asia while having fun with it.

[droid]

You can ask Ethan_sg about it. Just earlier tonight when we were walking back to the subway station in the rain, we stopped at this hair salon to ask directions. While doing so I flirted with this really cute girl at the door. I asked her number and she gave me her WeChat ID and added me. When we left, she immediately contacted me saying she forgot to lend us an umbrella since it was rainy tonight. Then she asked if I got home safely and had dry clothes to change into. It's odd that a stranger would be that concerned about me. But I guess in China, strangers can be very hospitable and warm. That wouldn't happen with a young cute girl in Taiwan, that's for sure. So how do you explain that?

That's excellent man that's what it's all about. Really happy to finally see you're over there.

A tip for you all:
One thing I've noticed while cold approaching girls in China or flirting with them, is that it helps if I do it in a joking way, like a comedian does when he's telling jokes, while laughing or chuckling at the same time. That way it doesn't come across as too creepy or serious. And it makes the atmosphere more lighthearted. So that's one way to cold approach girls in Asia while having fun with it.

Yeah that's because they're more authentic of course, you can be nice with them without it meaning "loser". You don't have to pretend to be 'bad-ass', 'cocky funny' or any of that other bullshit we've been brainwashed with.

I must say though from what I'm reading, Shenzhen would seem to provide the equivalent bullshit aura that New York or London has for certain western girls -minding proportions- , an thus attract them correspondingly.
As far as alternatives go, i've noticed in dating website pics or what not, that some of the cutest girls are from Changsha. That city looks like new york though (they're even planning a mega-skyscraper), I wonder if anyone can report on that location.

[ethan_sg]

Celery2010,

Many people know that most overseas Chinese, especially those in developed countries, look down on mainland China and have a superiority complex towards them. Being a Happierabroader, my views unsurprisingly go against the status quo. Therefore my views do not represent those of the average Singaporean regarding mainland China. The fact that you seem unaware of this seems to add less credibility to your views on Asia.

Also, I doubt you speak any Mandarin at all, or even if you do, it is at best rudimentary, and heavily restricts the type of Chinese woman you have been able to have a genuine interaction with in China, since as anyone who's been to China knows, the average standard of English is still very low. Overseas Chinese including Singaporeans who speak Chinese and are able to look at China without the typical overseas Chinese prejudice against it are therefore able to immerse themselves far more in Chinese city and interact with far more Chinese women than an average westerner is (with the exception of westerners like Rock, who is able to speak fluent Mandarin).

My dating experiences in Shenzhen have so far been very positive. In my first couple of weeks here, I had already hooked up with my first fling in Shenzhen who I then went on a holiday to Xiamen with during the Chinese New Year holiday. While it was only a fling, like most other Chinese girls I have gotten intimate with, whether in Shanghai, Shenzhen or Guangzhou, she was pretty and college educated yet down to earth and nowhere near as materialistic as women I had previously met in Singapore or other developed Asian cities.

Most other girls I've dated since here in Shenzhen have given me a similar impression as well. While I don't by any means think that Shenzhen could possibly be the best place to date women in China, I believe that factors such as demographics and the living situations of the women tend to play a role as well. It's easy to say to Winston to go to some far off unknown city in China - but while indeed the women may be even friendlier there, keep in mind that Winston only speaks very basic Mandarin - how many girls in these types of cities will be able to speak much English? While there will be a handful who can, how likely is Winston to come into contact with them by random cold approaching on the streets? Practical considerations come into play as well.

While Winston and I will probably go traveling around to explore other cities at some point (I've been to Chengdu twice for instance, and quite like it), my experiences so far tell me that Shenzhen is nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be - personally I've so far found the dating scene here comparable to both Shanghai and Guangzhou - diverse with girls from all over China and yet still mostly down-to-earth compared to places like Singapore, Hong Kong or Tokyo. It's all a matter of degree. Go too far to the other extreme and look for girls in unknown 5th tier cities and yes maybe the girls will be even friendlier, but maybe they will completely lack any level of refinement or sophistication, or maybe they will be so conservative that they will only consider sex after marriage. There are potential risks and downsides too. Not sure how small or large your sample size of dates were in Shenzhen, and even how representative a sample size they were given your status as a passing foreigner who probably speaks little Mandarin, but there is no doubt that my experiences, and to a growing extent, Winston's as well, have been different from yours, and one begins to wonder if you are over-generalizing based on a couple of bad eggs you fleetingly met in Shenzhen. My point isn't that Shenzhen is the best place to date girls in China - given the sheer number of cities in China it is very unlikely to be - but it certainly doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as you the picture you paint.

And by the way QQ is getting kinda out of date in China now - the real social networking app to use now is WeChat - which is again a great way to meet new girls in China. The fact that you are telling Winston to get on QQ also adds less credibility to your views. Also, it seems contradictory that you are encouraging getting on social networking sites but at the same time putting down dating sites - in China they are essentially one and the same thing. In fact Chinese social networking sites are so mainstream in China and there are so many people using them that you almost never see the same profile twice when you use a site over a period of time. It has become a mainstream way to meet new friends and potential new dates. Unfortunately most of these sites are only in Mandarin so it's not really an option for many foreigners out there.

[xiongmao]

I dated lots of Cantonese girls in Gz. One of them told me there were few Cantonese in Sz. Well that's fairly obvious really given that Sz is so new so they had to populate it with newcomers.

I do like the Cantonese - they tend to have a milder personality than the Northerners. And they're more cultured (i.e. don't spit much). Also us white dudes tend to prefer darker skinned girls.

I dated 5 girls in Sz. One was a bit boring and had body size issues. One was great fun and was pretty senior in her company so her salary was great. But she had mom issues and some kind of insecurity relating to her divorce. One was very intelligent but she scared me. One was really hot but just a year or two too young for me and also she is a total princess lol. Also she was only one of two women I've dated when people in the street have gossiped about us (the other was Thailand "Barbie" that Falcon knows about lol). Maybe it was screamingly obvious to Chinese people that she was a mistress.

The final one had the white legs Winston love so much but she had some big psychological issues. My friend reckons that psychoanalysing girls is a good way to get them into bed. Hmm, taking this girl into account, yes he is right and it does work.

Anyway, do you see a pattern here? All the Sz girls I met were single for a reason. Chinese men would spot the warning signs that we might not.

Maybe Winston should enrol in a Mandarin school like I did? I actually remember a lot of what I learnt back in 2013. Tonight I chatted to my first Chinese gf for the first time in 2.5 years, and I was able to write about half my messages in Chinese. I think grammar is easy, we just need a way to force feed vocabulary into long term memory.

[Winston]

A letter I sent to a girl I'm dating here in Shenzhen. What you think?

"Winnie honey,
You don't seem to understand my priorities. I don't need a job or apartment to be happy. That will not fulfill my heart. I need love and a passionate emotional relationship. That's what my heart needs. The stuff you talk about is trivial and can be obtained any time. It's not what my heart needs now. You don't seem to understand that.

We seem to be at a catch 22, or an impasse, in that you won't take me seriously unless i settle down with an apartment. However, I have no motivation to settle down unless i have a real relationship. You see what I mean? It's an impasse and catch 22. Lol.

Also you are so busy with work everyday. You have little time for me and us. You spend most of your time trying to help make your boss and employer rich.

You know, we are getting older each day. We are not young anymore. Each day that goes by in loneliness without love is wasted and gone forever. Do you realize that?

Did you know that people on their death bed about to die, NEVER say that they wished they had worked more or spent more time working at the office? They always say they wished they had given more love to others and their family. This is common knowledge. So why then do chinese people not think about this?

Ask yourself this: what's the point of making a living if all you do is make a living? In that case you have no life to make a living for and you are just a robotic slave who lives for others and not for yourself. It's an internal self contradiction. Think about it.

It's not true that this is how life has to be. In Europe people work less and play more and have more fun each day. It's their philosophy and mentality. So its not true that you have to become a workaholic to survive. It's just that chinese people believe that work is the only real purpose in life, because society tells them so. Whatever society says must be true, because for most people, truth is what's popular, not what's actually true. That's what most people believe and thats why it's so easy for the ruling elite to control people and condition them.

Think about these things. Try to put yourself in my shoes. Look at the big picture and larger deeper perspective. Hope you understand my meaning above."