Winston in China! Updates and Photos

[Banano]

"I look in the mirror and I do see an attractive handsome guy. Honestly."

Winston Wu, April 2015
Founder of Happier Abroad

[Rock]

Don't try to play money game in China. You just can't compete with the big dogs. The Chinese guys who throw around money make a big show of it and plunk down serious cash. It's not like the Philippines where you are perceived as wealthy just being a NE Asian or white guy even if you stay at Sogo and go to Jolibees lol.

But...I think there is something in your spending behavior which might put off certain girls. In the early dating phase, you might not wanna do anything that suggests being overly frugal cus it can be perceived as being stingy. If you spend to much time deciding on little things like which dish to eat or comparing prices of things to save a 10 or 20 RMB, the girls might think to themselves, wow, even I don't have to worry about that kind of small money so what's his problem. It's good to be decisive and if you hesitate and think too much when you order food or buy things at a shop, it can be irritating. I remember the Taichung girl I introduced you too but ended up ditching you told me that she felt you were very xiao qi (stingy) and too hesitant. She told me she would feel a lot more comfortable around a guy who is "at-sa-li" (a Japanese borrow word used in Taiwan which roughly translates to straightforward and easy to deal with). On the other hand, you tend to "zuan niu jiao jian" which means to waste time on an insoluble or insignificant problems. If you hesitate, move slowly, scratch your head, and argue over small issues in restaurants, or spend lots of time comparing to save a bit of money, that can really give a bad impression. When a Chinese guy gives a gift to a girl, I think he generally just gives it. He doesn't offer it as some kind of bargaining tool to get what he wants from her. Being a bit generous in the very beginning is a show of good faith. Once you guys start dating more regularly, you can explain your philosophy about saving money and being frugal. But it doesn't hurt on the first date or two to just move fast, lead, and not worry too much about how much things cost as long as you're not going to uber expensive places.

Perhaps you are not acting in the way I describe above. I just suspect that you might be cus I've seen you get in that mode before. So consider it. Also, if you're gonna spend more time in Shenzhen, perhaps you can make some more open minded male Chinese friends around your age who can act as a cultural translator to you and perhaps provide more accurate and useful information and advice.

[Winston]

But Rock, that example doesn't apply. I took that girl to a mall in Taichung called Chung Yo. All the jacket choices there sucked and I didn't like the styles. So I didn't buy anything, otherwise I'd just return it or regret it later. So I was unlucky to be in a mall with shitty choices. Somehow she used that against me, even though frugality wasn't the issue there. Another thing she held against me was when I was about to buy a $100 electronic dictionary, and I changed my mind later because my gut feeling told me it would be a waste of money. I decided it was better not to buy it than to buy it and regret it later. I don't know why she held that against me. It didn't make sense.

Around China women I take them to nice fancy restaurants with nice ambience and I gladly pay for dinner. How do I need to be more generous than that? Rock, you pay for dinner on dates too. Same as me. So how are you more generous than me? You don't buy expensive gifts on the first date either. So how are you any more generous than me? I pay for all the stuff I'm supposed to pay for, so how am I lacking generosity? I don't get it.

Ethan told me that a decent Chinese woman will help pay for stuff such as transportation, and help share the cost of entertainment. They won't usually let you pay 100 percent for everything like Filipinas do. A man shouldn't pay for 100 percent of everything.

[Ghost]

.

[smallcheese]

You have not given me any formula for scoring with Chinese women that worked. So why are you acting like I refused to listen to your advice? I have not. It just hasn't worked. Stop trying to blame the victim here. I haven't done anything wrong such as shoot myself in the foot. I'm not that stupid.

There is no magic formula for scoring with Chinese women. All I offered you were suggestions on things you could try to do. But I'm not on a date with you so I have no idea what you're doing that makes women decide that they don't want to have casual sex with you. But you must be doing something that is turning women off.

Btw, you can ask Ethan about my weight. I stood on the scale at the mall and my weight had dropped down to 81 kg from 84 kg before. So I've lost a lot of weight and my pants are dropping down now. So yes I lost weight. It's not true that I haven't improved myself. You are just talking out of you a** since women don't put out for me.

Also I look in the mirror and I do see a handsome good looking guy in Winston Wu. That's my HONEST opinion. So I don't see why you and other women don't agree or see the same thing. Honestly, I do see a handsome Winston Wu in the mirror. I'm not going to lie about that.

If you are handsome and good looking, then what's the problem? You should be scoring at will, like ethan_sg. Logic says that if you and ethan_sg were both considered handsome and good looking but women choose to have casual sex with ethan_sg, then it must be something other than looks that make women reject you for sex and not your friend.

I and others on this thread have offered you suggestions on things you could do to improve your chances. Maybe change how you look in clothes? No, you don't believe it's a problem. Maybe you come across as cheap and frugal? No, you argue that you're not cheap and stingy, just wise with money. Maybe change your conversation topics, e.g. avoid talking about conspiracy theories? No, that's not a problem based on your arguments. You talk about lots of other things too.

If it's not any of the above, then is it possible that you are deluding yourself when you state that you are handsome and good looking? Maybe if you post pictures of yourself as you look now, that might help. You don't seem to be shy about posting pictures of yourself so why not? Let's see what the women in China are seeing.

Would your friends Rock and ethan_sg be willing to post pictures of themselves so that we can compare them to you? If not, maybe they can chime in here since they know you personally and can vouch for your personal assessment that you're handsome and good looking. I don't know if you are or aren't handsome, but if you're inflating your view of yourself and being biased, then maybe that's the problem.

If women don't see you as handsome and good looking, they will assess you on other characteristics, e.g. personality, appearance, frugality with money, stability, etc. And after spending time with you assessing the whole package, they reject you because they don't see you as future husband material. So why have casual sex with someone that you don't see a long-term future with, especially if he's not good looking and physically attractive?

Most women have sexual needs too and they will have casual sex and flings with guys they consider to be handsome and good looking. That's you, isn't it?

Also, one of you, either you or Cereal2010, said that I was "too rigid". WTF does that mean? Women usually say the OPPOSITE. Chinese are rigid and if you are too open minded and easygoing, they will say that you look indecisive and like a wanderer, and therefore immature. Chinese people often call me immature because I'm not rigid like they are. A man is supposed to be narrow and rigid and knows exactly what he wants. That's what MarcosZeitola observed, that Chinese are rigid and that I am not. Thus I am incompatible with Chinese mentality and character. That was an accurate statement. So I don't know why you or Cereal2010 said I was too rigid, when the truth is the exact OPPOSITE. Weird.

I never said you were "too rigid".

[pete98146]

Winston...

Most guys that do well with women have a bit of "all bark and no bite" meaning they go out on a date and act cheeky, cocky, mischievous, dangerous and challenging but once the girl gets to know them they are decent guys go will treat the girl well and have a long term plan mapped out.

You almost seem to be the opposite where you are "no bark and all bite" meaning you go out with them, somehow manage to come across as a very nice, agreeable, chummy lapdog but in reality once the girl gets to know you she'll find out that you are in fact dangerous because you have a son out of wedlock, really have no interest in settling down (you say you do but we'll believe that when we see it), enjoy the P4P scene a bit too much and my guess is that you are a challenge to live with on a long term basis.

We can give you advice until we are blue in the face but IMHO, this alone will keep you stuck in dating limbo. It's an odd situation to overcome to say the least.

[smallcheese]

Yeah a Chinese woman I'm seeing told me that I should rent an apartment here to show here that I'm stable here and not a tourist. She said she'd feel more comfortable about sleeping with me if I did that. But sometimes she hints that she prefers to have sex within a marriage too.

But why did you say that I should project money and power? Come on man. Get real. I can only do that for so long. Sure I can take her to nice upscale places, and I do that of course if I really like someone. But once she knows where I"m staying, she can figure out my budget level. And no, I do not stay in $100 a night hotels. Neither does Rock or Ethan, they also stay in budget hotels. Yet they get laid.

So I see no reason why I have to be held to a higher standard. I look in the mirror and I do see an attractive handsome guy. Honestly. So I don't see why I would need to stay in $100 hotels, while Rock and Ethan stay in $20 hotels and still get laid, no problem. Don't put ridiculous standards onto me. That's lame.

The reason I suggested that is because you're not getting casual sex with normal women. What works for Rock and Ethan is not working for you. There are many men in China who throw money around and/or play up their family/business connections in order to get laid. If it's sex that you're after (and that's what you're complaining about so I'm answering your question here), that's just one technique you could try. But it attracts the gold digger types too. I think of it as an alternative to P4P because one way or another, you're paying for it. I don't know your money situation but it may not be for you. But understand that you are sometimes competing against mainland guys who actually use this technique because they have the money and influence through family/business connections.

The problem with renting an apartment is that it TIES me down in Shenzhen and restricts my movement. It's like in chess if you trap your own pieces and restrict their own mobility with no tactical advantage, then it's considered a stupid move. I have no reason to tie myself down in Shenzhen yet. So why do it? It's like getting trapped in mud with no advantage.

Me and the woman that wants me to rent an apartment are at an impasse. She won't sleep with me until I rent an apartment, and I won't rent an apartment until she sleeps with me and proves herself. So we are at an impasse or Catch 22.

I never said you should rent an apartment in Shenzhen. You should rent an apartment only AFTER you find a city or town where you find an abundance of women that you are attracted to and could see yourself marrying in the future. As I said before, you can use Shenzhen as a base of operations for now, especially since that's what you know best. But force yourself to make trips to other cities and towns. One easy way to do this is to limit the number of days you're in a specific hotel in Shenzhen. Then go to another city or town. Then after a couple of weeks or so, go back to Shenzhen which is more familiar to you and where you might have friends now that you can talk to.

Smallcheese, I asked you many questions earlier in this thread that you never addressed.

What questions are you talking about Winston? This thread is so long it's hard to keep track. I've offered you many suggestions on things you can do to improve your chances of getting laid with a normal woman but I'm not sure if it answered any of your questions.

The only question I remember answering directly is the one regarding whether or not you should stay in Shenzhen. I suggested that you could stay in Shenzhen and use it as a base of operations for the rest of China. It's a good and cheaper hub for travel within China. And you can take 1-2 week trips visiting different places in China to get a feel for the environment and women there. Once you find a place that you like, then stay there for an extended period of time so that you can do a proper search for a wife. To demonstrate to a potential wife that you're not a tourist and that you're serious about finding a wife and that you're stable, you might have to rent an apartment. Would that be so terrible if you really liked the city/town and the women that live there?

Btw, what if a Chinese woman keeps telling me that she won't sleep with me because you aren't supposed to have sex until you're married? How do I respond to that? I shouldn't have to only have sex within marriage. Other men just have to pay for dinner and they get sex. I shouldn't have to pay for an expensive wedding to have sex. No way. That's not acceptable.

Wow, you really gloss over what people write if you don't like what they say. I already gave you my answer. I even put the answer in bold. I'll repeat it here since you don't get it. Dump her and tell her exactly why you are dumping her! If a woman tells you she won't sleep with you until after you're married, get rid of the bitch and run away as fast as you can!!!!!

If a woman sees you as a potential husband, she would happily have casual sex with you first because she (like yourself) would want to know that you're sexually compatible. You are in control of your money and no woman has the right to tell you how to spend your hard earned money.

[smallcheese]

"I look in the mirror and I do see an attractive handsome guy. Honestly."

Winston Wu, April 2015
Founder of Happier Abroad

LOL!!!!!

Honestly, I do see a handsome Winston Wu in the mirror. I'm not going to lie about that.

Talking in the 3rd person now? That's not a good sign.

Winston Wu, the Chinese version of George Costanza.

[smallcheese]

But...I think there is something in your spending behavior which might put off certain girls. In the early dating phase, you might not wanna do anything that suggests being overly frugal cus it can be perceived as being stingy. If you spend to much time deciding on little things like which dish to eat or comparing prices of things to save a 10 or 20 RMB, the girls might think to themselves, wow, even I don't have to worry about that kind of small money so what's his problem. It's good to be decisive and if you hesitate and think too much when you order food or buy things at a shop, it can be irritating. I remember the Taichung girl I introduced you too but ended up ditching you told me that she felt you were very xiao qi (stingy) and too hesitant. She told me she would feel a lot more comfortable around a guy who is "at-sa-li" (a Japanese borrow word used in Taiwan which roughly translates to straightforward and easy to deal with). On the other hand, you tend to "zuan niu jiao jian" which means to waste time on an insoluble or insignificant problems. If you hesitate, move slowly, scratch your head, and argue over small issues in restaurants, or spend lots of time comparing to save a bit of money, that can really give a bad impression. When a Chinese guy gives a gift to a girl, I think he generally just gives it. He doesn't offer it as some kind of bargaining tool to get what he wants from her. Being a bit generous in the very beginning is a show of good faith. Once you guys start dating more regularly, you can explain your philosophy about saving money and being frugal. But it doesn't hurt on the first date or two to just move fast, lead, and not worry too much about how much things cost as long as you're not going to uber expensive places.

Perhaps you are not acting in the way I describe above. I just suspect that you might be cus I've seen you get in that mode before. So consider it. Also, if you're gonna spend more time in Shenzhen, perhaps you can make some more open minded male Chinese friends around your age who can act as a cultural translator to you and perhaps provide more accurate and useful information and advice.

But Rock, that example doesn't apply. I took that girl to a mall in Taichung called Chung Yo. All the jacket choices there sucked and I didn't like the styles. So I didn't buy anything, otherwise I'd just return it or regret it later. So I was unlucky to be in a mall with shitty choices. Somehow she used that against me, even though frugality wasn't the issue there. Another thing she held against me was when I was about to buy a $100 electronic dictionary, and I changed my mind later because my gut feeling told me it would be a waste of money. I decided it was better not to buy it than to buy it and regret it later. I don't know why she held that against me. It didn't make sense.

Around China women I take them to nice fancy restaurants with nice ambience and I gladly pay for dinner. How do I need to be more generous than that? Rock, you pay for dinner on dates too. Same as me. So how are you more generous than me? You don't buy expensive gifts on the first date either. So how are you any more generous than me? I pay for all the stuff I'm supposed to pay for, so how am I lacking generosity? I don't get it.

Ethan told me that a decent Chinese woman will help pay for stuff such as transportation, and help share the cost of entertainment. They won't usually let you pay 100 percent for everything like Filipinas do. A man shouldn't pay for 100 percent of everything.

This is a perfect example of why you will always fail Winston.

Rock is a person who knows you and you consider a friend. He tells you exactly why a Taiwanese woman dumped you. Instead of graciously accepting his advice based on his personal observations of you, you counter with arguments on why the Taiwanese woman was wrong!

Rock knows you better than most people on this forum and he has personally seen you in action. So he tells you that the little things that you do that might be turning women off. You give off a vibe that you're cheap and stingy and most women aren't interested in cheapskates. What are you arguing about? The woman dumped you already. And she told Rock exactly why she ditched you. Why do you have this compulsion to always be right and never admit when you might be wrong? Why can't you just shut up, be humble and contemplate thoughtful advice from a real friend?

Some people on this forum have said that you should go to Thailand or back to the Philippines and spend your money on P4P instead of looking for a Chinese wife. That might be the best advice you'll ever get on this forum.

[Banano]

Winston, serious question
Do you have some kinda of mental illness, schizo or something?

Your stubburness has no boundaries and im relating this to your mental issues you have. You seem delusional which is typical for people with scizofrenia, many people gave you some good advice and pointed out why and where you fail but you keep defending yourself.
I had a neighour who was like you, if you say sky is blue he would go on arguing that its green.

I think you said at one point that you have been diagnozed with schicofrenia when you were teenager?

[chanta76]

I seen expats in Asia that are too old , too fat with poor hygiene and what makes it worst is that they have this entitlement attitude. I think Winston is like that. I seen this behavior with other expats and I know this is like a generalize statement but they think their is nothing wrong with them and find fault with everything else.

I mean lets face facts folks maybe we are all like that to a degree. I mean many of us blame western feminist for spoiling Western women and therefore it's all western women fault or western society fault and we are guiltless. I mean come on!! If that was true all American guys couldn't get laid in the west or find love and would go abroad but in reality that's not the case. I mean let's face facts folks the average expats that choose to go abroad is not the highest quality guy.

I been reading Winston posts and threads and I find that he is extreme case of that. I also see this with Will-N-Dodd..to some degree and others. It's like they don't want to be responsible for themselves to become better but instead find excuses and blame external factors.

Winston for all purpose thinks his really a good looking guy and great catch and should be able to bed young cute 20's every night or every other night...Hmm...Will-N-dodd and others think the same but if that doesn't happen they blame the girls or society or find excuses when in reality it could be them..that's the problem but can't face the reality that there is something wrong with them and therefore decides a different location will do.

Maybe it's protective mechanism or coping mechanism for them .

Winston I tell you why your not getting laid. I mean if you think your a good looking guy and claim to have some money it doesn't make sense why you can't get laid....hmm...maybe if there is a God he put a curse on you. Maybe it is karma maybe it is your fate maybe it is Murphy law. if that is the case you can't do anything about it because this is what the big house dealt you.

I mean there is always p4p..and well you might get lucky ..but in the long run sorry buddy this is your lot in life. Maybe you did something wrong a long time ago or maybe your ancestor did..and this is your curse.

[Winston]

Update:

I'm going to dongguan tomorrow to visit Zboy1. It will be nice to get out of Shenzhen finally. Zboy1 says people are more down to earth in his town. And on ctrip the hotels there seem a lot cheaper too. Wish me luck there.

I also wrote chinese women on plenty of fish and found a lot of new ones. I got a very high response rate. So I must be considered a good catch. But mostly with 6s and 7s.

[Winston]

I'd like to hear Winston say for once, "hey you guys have valid points", "i'll try some of this".

Droid,
You must have a horrible memory. I have admitted that many guys here gave valid points.

- I said that Ethan_sg had valid points for using Shenzhen as a base of operations.
- I said that rock had valid points about why women who want a house before before giving me sex have incompatible values with me.
- I said that Smallcheese and cereal2010 had valid points about not limiting myself to Shenzhen only when there are many places in China to explore and try out. And why Shenzhen is for those into careerism and materialism.
- I said that MarcosZeitola had valid points about why I'm not compatible with Chinese women and their mentality and character and goals, and why my decision to seek a Chinese wife is illogical.

So you see, you are wrong that I don't acknowledge valid points from others. Are you so eager to blame the victim and bash me that you develop a shitty memory or cognitive dissonance to justify it? If so that's sad and looks bad.

I await your apology and admission of being wrong.

[smallcheese]

Update:

I'm going to dongguan tomorrow to visit Zboy1. It will be nice to get out of Shenzhen finally. Zboy1 says people are more down to earth in his town. And on ctrip the hotels there seem a lot cheaper too. Wish me luck there.

I also wrote chinese women on plenty of fish and found a lot of new ones. I got a very high response rate. So I must be considered a good catch. But mostly with 6s and 7s.

It's good that you're visiting another city and even better that you have Zboy1 there to guide you.

Dongguan used to have a very open sex trade but there was a major crackdown there I think, in early 2014. So now P4P is less in the open and if you're staying in a hotel, I'm pretty sure you will be asked daily if you want a girl sent to your room. It's part of the hotel service You don't need to tell anyone. The hotel manager and staff will know since you are checking in as a single. Don't be surprised if someone calls you in your room, totally out of the blue, asking if you'd like a massage.

It used to be pretty cheap but that may have changed recently. Zboy1 might have better information on how P4P works there now. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the POF women there are actually using the site to meet more clients.

Try to stay there for awhile to get a feel for the city, the environment and the women there. Good luck in your search.

[Banano]

Winston

Why you never blame your shitty genes and your parents instead of society and feminism?

Dont mean to be nasty but thats the truth, yet you think you are handsome and attractive when 99% of people think otherwise