Winston vs Taiwanese/E Asians: Differences and Similarities

[Winston]

Hi all,
I just composed a one page chart of differences and similarities I have with typical average Taiwanese and Chinese people. I put it in columns though, which would not show up on a standard webpage by MS Word, so I outputted it into a PDF file. Check it out.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Asians.pdf

So are you guys more like me, more like them, or somewhere in between?

[globetrotter]

Hi all,
I just composed a one page chart of differences and similarities I have with typical average Taiwanese and Chinese people. I put it in columns though, which would not show up on a standard webpage by MS Word, so I outputted it into a PDF file. Check it out.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Asians.pdf

So are you guys more like me, more like them, or somewhere in between?

Winston you are an American with Taiwanese parents. You are not Chinese and your behaviour and preferences and personality support that conclusion.

Only in the USA is background assayed based upon ethnicity and where your ancestors came from in the distant past.

[momopi]

The stereotype ethnic Chinese outside of China is superstitious, belives in the supernatural, mixes multiple belief systems (folks religion, taoism, buddhism, etc.), looks for "luck" and blames everything that goes wrong on "bad luck" or other people, doesn't like to assume responsibility for their own actions, and about 1 in 5 are prone to gambling habit, which is somewhat controlled if they keep it to mahjong at home with friends and neighbors. But given easy access to casinos, those people may lose their homes.

http://www.asian-nation.org/gambling.shtml


Westerners also understands "wealth doesn't last 3 generations" better than the Chinese. Only recently, did the concept of trust funds gain some popularity. Traditional Chinese way of thinking is to spoil your kids, send them to good schools then hand the family business over to them so they can wreck it. Let's face it, not everyone is capable.

East Asians know how to work hard but few understands "exit strategy". A funny story about elderly Japanese businessmen who spent all their life working, claiming that they'd enjoy retirement later and spend their time fishing and golf, realized after they retired that they're too old and too lazy to go out and do anything. If you plan to enjoy life, plan early and go do it while you're still young. Once you get old, all you can do is pop Viagra and eye 19 year old stallions with envy as they hump their hot college girlfriends 5 times in a day.

[Winston]

Check out what someone wrote about my comparison page above.

Winston-

Wow..you really spent time breaking it down. You are bi-cultural...and hybridization is the result...for myself,
the rigidity of the More Northern East Asian countries is stifling. Not having been born into it, I don't have your ambivalence, but I do observe that once many Chinese, Japanese and Koreans escape their rigid societies, the have difficulty ever really fitting in there again, and often the locals consider them "contaminated" or corrupt...never pure Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc ever again....

If that's so, then abc's in general must not fit in with Taiwan very well. And that's why I don't vibe with the people at all and feel that the vibe is suffocating me.

But I wonder how people like Rock and Momopi can fit into Taiwan so well since they grew up overseas?

[Winston]

Check out my cousin Roseann's response to my list of differences with Taiwanese:

Thanks to those typical Taiwanese else Taiwan won't as successful as today.

I fall in to the category that I know my responsibilities of my life, my family, my community and my country.

How come you did not list family values?

Roseann

So typical huh?

How is it that one of the most atypical and unique Asians in the world (me) can come from one of the most square, narrow and conservative families in the world? Is that the ultimate anomaly or what? lol

I'm not talking about culture differences either, as I am very unique and atypical even for a Chinese American or ABC.

[Rock]

Check out what someone wrote about my comparison page above.

Winston-

Wow..you really spent time breaking it down. You are bi-cultural...and hybridization is the result...for myself,
the rigidity of the More Northern East Asian countries is stifling. Not having been born into it, I don't have your ambivalence, but I do observe that once many Chinese, Japanese and Koreans escape their rigid societies, the have difficulty ever really fitting in there again, and often the locals consider them "contaminated" or corrupt...never pure Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc ever again....

If that's so, then abc's in general must not fit in with Taiwan very well. And that's why I don't vibe with the people at all and feel that the vibe is suffocating me.

But I wonder how people like Rock and Momopi can fit into Taiwan so well since they grew up overseas?

As far as being accepted by the locals for partial re-assimilation, I think this applies much more to South Korea and perhaps Japan than Taiwan. I've read articles about Americanized Koreans or even those who did 4 years of study in American having a difficult time being accepted when they come back. I just don't believe this is the case in Taiwan. ABCs with the right look will be at the top of the pack with much of the younger generation. And if they behave properly, most older people will accept them. Of course, language is an issue. If they speak both Mandarin and Taiwanese fairly well, they're golden.

Now going back to Korea, I'm going to post separately about a Korean America who went to Seoul and claimed rock star success with the girls. So perhaps being accepted into the culture is different from being able to pull lots of local hotties. Unfortunately, his email report cost him his cushy expat job.

[Winston]

Rock,
Most ABC's I know in America, including conservative square ones, tell me that they do not think that they'd get along with a girl from Taiwan. If a Taiwanese came to America when they were in junior high, they can still get along with traditional Taiwanese, like some of my cousins did.

Most Taiwanese who come to America and start in junior high or high school do not fit into American culture and often report feeling alienated. My cousin Roseann, quoted above, I heard, cried when she first came to America.

I think the examples you cite are exceptions, not the norm, in my experience. But it's good to be positive I guess.

That being said, I've noticed that back in the 80's, when I went to Taiwan, as soon as people heard that I was an ABC, I'd get immediate attention and enthusiasm. But now, when I tell anyone that I'm an ABC, no one cares. It no longer gets you any special attention.

Why is that Momopi?

That's not my imagination or a case of being around the wrong people is it?

[momopi]

The negative stereotype on Taiwanese GF is that the girl has this driving need to make the guy conform to her needs, and if he refuses, he's both attractive and frustrating at the same time, which turns her into a complete b*tch. And if he bends over and confirms to her needs, then he's a pushover and no longer exciting, end up carrying her purse as they go shopping.

There are many Taiwanese that travels abroad these days, meeting someone from abroad is not exotic anymore. But good looking, fasionable ABC male is still very much in demand because they don't act like a noncompetitive Taiwanese mama's boy.

Here's a typical "ABC fashion image" 王力宏








NOT THIS:



Personally, I thought moving to the US was great! I was sick in Taipei all the time, and the environment in the US is much much cleaner. Back in Taiwan I had to get up at 6:30am and walk to school, then spend an hour cleaning (this was elementary, mind you) the class room with rags, and stay until 5:30pm and walk back home. In the US, we lived next to the elementary school in Anaheim and classes didn't start until 9:30am? We got out at like 3pm? Sheesh. I went fishing every day after school at the Santa Ana river. On weekends my older cousin took us shooting. I still have a box of .22 (spent/empty) catriages from my first outing somewhere. For summer breaks we went to camp in the mountains. It was fun!

The party went on and on and came to an end after college. Suddenly it was like "jumping into the ocean" without a life jacket. Now you have to actually work for a living and make real effort to chase girls. LoL.

[Rock]

Rock,
Most ABC's I know in America, including conservative square ones, tell me that they do not think that they'd get along with a girl from Taiwan. If a Taiwanese came to America when they were in junior high, they can still get along with traditional Taiwanese, like some of my cousins did.

Most Taiwanese who come to America and start in junior high or high school do not fit into American culture and often report feeling alienated. My cousin Roseann, quoted above, I heard, cried when she first came to America.

I think the examples you cite are exceptions, not the norm, in my experience. But it's good to be positive I guess.

That being said, I've noticed that back in the 80's, when I went to Taiwan, as soon as people heard that I was an ABC, I'd get immediate attention and enthusiasm. But now, when I tell anyone that I'm an ABC, no one cares. It no longer gets you any special attention.

Why is that Momopi?

That's not my imagination or a case of being around the wrong people is it?

I don't know very many ABCs so I can't dispute what you say. I'm not at all surprised if many who come over as FOBs at junior high/high school level don't fit into the typically very harsh American school culture coming from place like Taiwan. Nothing unexpected there.

By the way, by ABC, we are often including people who are not really ABCs (born in the States) but who came over sometime during their childhood. You yourself fit that description. Also, Taiwan has a lot of people these days who spent a substantial amount of time in the States growing up or have been raised in somewhat of an international environment. Many of them speak American style English with almost no accent so its not always so easy to distinguish between the shades.

Anyway, my point was, Taiwan would be a very welcoming environment for certain ABC males. There are some girls who would choose them over a similar local for dating. As far as longer term suitability goes, that's a more complex issue that I did not intend to address.

One of my girlfriend's 3 closest friends married an ABC just a few months ago and moved to his home in Alhamra California. Her sister hangs with a more glamorous set and a few of them are also with ABCs or quasi ABCs.

I asked her what issues they might face and she told me that sometimes, the parents of the ABC guy prefer that he date other ABCs instead of going downmarket to Taiwan. I suppose the assumption there is that the average economic and education level of second generation or above Chinese/Taiwanese emigrants to the States is higher than that in Taiwan.

[Rock]

The negative stereotype on Taiwanese GF is that the girl has this driving need to make the guy conform to her needs, and if he refuses, he's both attractive and frustrating at the same time, which turns her into a complete b*tch. And if he bends over and confirms to her needs, then he's a pushover and no longer exciting, end up carrying her purse as they go shopping.

There are many Taiwanese that travels abroad these days, meeting someone from abroad is not exotic anymore. But good looking, fasionable ABC male is still very much in demand because they don't act like a noncompetitive Taiwanese mama's boy.

Here's a typical "ABC fashion image" 王力宏








Personally, I thought moving to the US was great! I was sick in Taipei all the time, and the environment in the US is much much cleaner. Back in Taiwan I had to get up at 6:30am and walk to school, then spend an hour cleaning (this was elementary, mind you) the class room with rags, and stay until 5:30pm and walk back home. In the US, we lived next to the elementary school in Anaheim and classes didn't start until 9:30am? We got out at like 3pm? Sheesh. I went fishing every day after school at the Santa Ana river. On weekends my older cousin took us shooting. I still have a box of .22 (spent/empty) catriages from my first outing somewhere. For summer breaks we went to camp in the mountains. It was fun!

The party went on and on and came to an end after college. Suddenly it was like "jumping into the ocean" without a life jacket. Now you have to actually work for a living and make real effort to chase girls. LoL.

Momopi

I don't think an ABC has to look so perfect like Wang Li Hong to do well here. But it helps a lot if he takes care of himself, knows how to dress, and is in decent shape. There are a lot of these model types in my gym. Thankfully, a large percentage of them are not interested in girls.

[globetrotter]

Personally, I thought moving to the US was great! I was sick in Taipei all the time, and the environment in the US is much much cleaner. Back in Taiwan I had to get up at 6:30am and walk to school, then spend an hour cleaning (this was elementary, mind you) the class room with rags, and stay until 5:30pm and walk back home. In the US, we lived next to the elementary school in Anaheim and classes didn't start until 9:30am? We got out at like 3pm? Sheesh. I went fishing every day after school at the Santa Ana river. On weekends my older cousin took us shooting. I still have a box of .22 (spent/empty) cartridges from my first outing somewhere. For summer breaks we went to camp in the mountains. It was fun!

The party went on and on and came to an end after college. Suddenly it was like "jumping into the ocean" without a life jacket. Now you have to actually work for a living and make real effort to chase girls. LoL.

Check out my cousin Roseann's response to my list of differences with Taiwanese:

Thanks to those typical Taiwanese else Taiwan won't as successful as today.

I fall in to the category that I know my responsibilities of my life, my family, my community and my country.

How come you did not list family values?

Roseann

Thinking that spending only 5.5 hours a day in school compared to 15 hours a day, 5.5 days a week for PRC kids, is a 'Good Thing', is exactly why China is about to kick the USA's ass.

Yeah, it's fun. But it makes for a nation of lazy, X-Box addicted, dolts.

They Are Coming. The West was warned and did nothing.

[Winston]

I don't know very many ABCs so I can't dispute what you say. I'm not at all surprised if many who come over as FOBs at junior high/high school level don't fit into the typically very harsh American school culture coming from place like Taiwan. Nothing unexpected there.

By the way, by ABC, we are often including people who are not really ABCs (born in the States) but who came over sometime during their childhood. You yourself fit that description. Also, Taiwan has a lot of people these days who spent a substantial amount of time in the States growing up or have been raised in somewhat of an international environment. Many of them speak American style English with almost no accent so its not always so easy to distinguish between the shades.

Anyway, my point was, Taiwan would be a very welcoming environment for certain ABC males. There are some girls who would choose them over a similar local for dating. As far as longer term suitability goes, that's a more complex issue that I did not intend to address.

One of my girlfriend's 3 closest friends married an ABC just a few months ago and moved to his home in Alhamra California. Her sister hangs with a more glamorous set and a few of them are also with ABCs or quasi ABCs.

I asked her what issues they might face and she told me that sometimes, the parents of the ABC guy prefer that he date other ABCs instead of going downmarket to Taiwan. I suppose the assumption there is that the average economic and education level of second generation or above Chinese/Taiwanese emigrants to the States is higher than that in Taiwan.

What I say applies mostly back in the 80's and maybe early 90's. I don't know about ABC's nowadays though as I do not usually hang out with them or talk to them, other than those that email me to express their admiration for Happier Abroad. lol But like I said before, a lot of ABC's are trying to become more "white" and "Americanized" in order to fit in and be accepted by the cool crowd in America. Plus, they are trying to defy their parents' traditional values and strict upbringing. To them, assimilating into their parents Chinese culture by going back to Taiwan is seen as REGRESSING or going BACKWARDS, rather than forwards. It's the opposite of "progress" to them.

Plus, there are some culture conflicts. While both Taiwan and America preach workaholic virtues and puritannical ethics in public behavior, America encourages you to be confident and assertive. Taiwan does not. Weakness is not seen as a bad thing in TW culture, as long as the person works hard, is obedient, and makes good money. So, an assertive ABC will feel odd here, since he can't be assertive, and especially if he is expected to act like a local Taiwanese and think like one too.

Not many ABC's I know want to live in Taiwan. They may visit and say that it was "nice" but they do not usually say they felt at home there or that they thrive there.

Yeah I am not technically an ABC since I was born in Taiwan, but going to the states at 3 is pretty much the same.

Usually, if you go overseas before you at 8 years old, you will not have an aet. But if you go after you're 8 then you will still have a Chinese accent. 8 I hear is the cut off point.

The cousins I told you about who went to America in high school or junior high do not have American accents. And as you saw in Roseann's letter that I posted above, do not always write with accurate grammar either.

In fact, I would say that Asians have different vocal chords than whites do, even if they were born and raised in the same culture.

Some can tell on the phone that I'm Asian without seeing me, others can't. Not cause of accent. But because the vocal chords are different.

Btw, when I was 17 and stayed in Taiwan for a year in 1990-1991, I also noticed that girls I didn't know would not talk to me unless I was with someone they knew. However, when I went to a big University in Dan Shui, near Taipei, my parents' friend, who was a teacher there, introduced me to an English teacher there, who in turn introduced me to her whole class full of girls. Immediately, I was received with smiles and enthusiasm by all the girls. Every corny thing I said in the classroom was laughed at. I thought that it was odd that these college girls who normally do not smile or talk to you in public were suddenly so friendly and enthusiastic when you were properly introduced to them by their teacher.

Later I was told to write my name and number on the chalkboard so that the girls could take it down and call me to invite me out. The next day, several girls called to invite me to hang out at their university and meet them. I saw them a couple of times, but they all told me that since they were older than me (by a year or two) that we could only be friends.

Back then, being an ABC got me attention, but only when properly introduced. Otherwise, no one would talk to me or even look at me. So like I said, being properly introduced makes a big difference. And that's what makes it difficult, cause you have to depend on that.

[Rock]

Btw, when I was 17 and stayed in Taiwan for a year in 1990-1991, I also noticed that girls I didn't know would not talk to me unless I was with someone they knew. However, when I went to a big University in Dan Shui, near Taipei, my parents' friend, who was a teacher there, introduced me to an English teacher there, who in turn introduced me to her whole class full of girls. Immediately, I was received with smiles and enthusiasm by all the girls. Every corny thing I said in the classroom was laughed at. I thought that it was odd that these college girls who normally do not smile or talk to you in public were suddenly so friendly and enthusiastic when you were properly introduced to them by their teacher.

Later I was told to write my name and number on the chalkboard so that the girls could take it down and call me to invite me out. The next day, several girls called to invite me to hang out at their university and meet them. I saw them a couple of times, but they all told me that since they were older than me (by a year or two) that we could only be friends.

Back then, being an ABC got me attention, but only when properly introduced. Otherwise, no one would talk to me or even look at me. So like I said, being properly introduced makes a big difference. And that's what makes it difficult, cause you have to depend on that.

Winston

@17, you were just a boy, especially given your style and appearance. Yes, when everyone is real young, many girls will often see you as their little brother 'xiao di' and may not give you a chance romantically. But its sure a lot better to be rejected for being too young than too old, lol.

If you had spent your 20s here in Taipei and gotten connected to a few cool friends, I bet you would have had a great time. And by your mid-20s, some of those slightly older gals who rejected you before would start giving you chances if they were still unattached. Socially acceptable age gaps widen as everyone gets older.

If you wanna totally avoid approaching strangers, making friends and getting introductions in Taiwan is a piece of cake for a young visitor who is reasonably likable and friendly.

[Winston]

Hi all,
I just revised and expanded my chart of differences and similarities I have with Taiwanese people. See the new version:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Asians.pdf

[Winston]

Winston

@17, you were just a boy, especially given your style and appearance. Yes, when everyone is real young, many girls will often see you as their little brother 'xiao di' and may not give you a chance romantically. But its sure a lot better to be rejected for being too young than too old, lol.

If you had spent your 20s here in Taipei and gotten connected to a few cool friends, I bet you would have had a great time. And by your mid-20s, some of those slightly older gals who rejected you before would start giving you chances if they were still unattached. Socially acceptable age gaps widen as everyone gets older.

If you wanna totally avoid approaching strangers, making friends and getting introductions in Taiwan is a piece of cake for a young visitor who is reasonably likable and friendly.

It's hard to say. Just being young isn't enough. You gotta fit in and vibe with them too. Not everyone can do that. I've never mentally connected with TWese very well. Their mannerisms just did not flow with mine. Their smiles are also peculiar and distinct, especially on the females.

Believe it or not, I told my parents long ago that I would not want to marry an ABC cause seeing an Asian acting white was a weird thing and that I'd rather have a FOB Asian cause she'd be more genuine at least.