Are these three Bible verses true?

[Adama]

How, then, do you get this person to realise there is only one right way?

By threatening that they'll burn in hell if they don't believe your way?

But seriously, I've noticed that whenever someone is invoking God against others (because the others don't believe the "right" way) that the person is really just invoking his own ego. So when Adama says God's going to burn others in hell, what he's saying is he wants us to burn in hell. He's even said words to that effect - that he hopes others will burn in hell. Quite contrary to the idea of wanting to "save souls" and "win people for the kingdom." At the very least, you'd think his perspective would be one of seeing it as tragic, but he takes glee in it. And so I remember that when psychopaths invoke God, they are really just invoking their own ego.

+1

Men like him just like to revel in their belief that no matter how awful their lives are right now, they're winning later. Schadenfreude is hardly virtuous.

Ouch. I'm personally offended by both of your comments. I am not complaining. I am informing you. Since you are both fellow Christians, also known as brothers, you should know not to proceed in this manner against me. I am your brother, not your enemy.

I know enough to know that no one is good enough to pass through the gates of heaven, and it is by the grace of God we are saved. Your words tend to reek of self-righteousness, aggrandizing yourself and your knowledge. That is not, in my opinion, the way to go about things. I do good works. If it ever comes up, I let people know I am Christian, and that I do good in the name of Jesus and follow his example, albeit poorly. You sell salvation through fear rather than through hope, and that is not something by which I can abide.

Oh I get it now. This is one of those "Lifestyle Evangelist" Christians. They think if they treat people really well in life that eventually people will ask them about God and then they'll be saved. But these same people can't get anyone else saved because they don't know how they themselves got saved, because they don't know the Word of God and their churches are weak in the scripture.

So any time an active preaching Christian starts preaching to people, they get weirded out because you can't just start talking to people about God. You have to show them how awesome you are by doing your good works in front of them, and then those people will ask.

Too bad for those who ask these men still can't give the right answers because they are afraid of God's words. It is God's words which save. The most these guys can give to the unsaved is a nice story about getting saved, but they can't show anyone verses on getting saved because they themselves are afraid of the strength of God's words and are so afraid of even mentioning a word like "hell."

I used to work with a guy like that. He told me, "Don't you know we can't get others saved." I went home and posted to his FB: The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life: and he that winneth souls is wise.

God wants us to win the lost, not with lifestyle evangelism, which is weak, but WITH HIS WORDS, which are much more powerful than words of my own choosing.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


Proverbs 11:30-- tells us that the fruit of the believers is the tree of life (signalling everlasting life), and that those believers who convert others to believers are wise in God's eyes.
Daniel 12:3 ---tells us that the wise, meaning the soul winners, will shine bright, and those who were really good at soul winning will shine very bright.
Romans 10:14-15 ---tells us that a preacher must give them the word so that they can hear it, that we should go and preach the gospel of peace.

I love God's words. I do not fear using them to get people saved. Certainly you can use lifestyle evangelism, but how many people can you reach? And of those who are reached, how many can you convert with your own words when God's words are the ones that save? A person who uses God's words can get many more people saved than the Lifestyle Evangelists.

In order to get someone saved, you need to be able to show someone a verse, or you need to be able to quote verses FROM THE BIBLE. You can't get anyone saved without verses from the Bible. So anyone who thinks they can get someone saved without using God's words is either an unskilled Christian (who doesn't know their Bible AT ALL) or is not saved, or both.

(And that is why you have a hard time talking to people about the Lord. You don't know the Bible. Therefore you're not giving them God's Words. That's why you're ineffective at converting people. It is not because they've heard the fear doctrine because God Himself saves with fear and so do His prophets.)

And these LEs probably don't even know that the other half of their church is unsaved because the words preached to lifestyle Christians are so few because they prefer stories rather than the Word. (And many of their stories are of stuff that have nothing to do with the Bible at all.)

[Adama]

Matthew 23:13 KJV
[13]But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Suffer = Old English for Allow.

[The_Adventurer]

Go in peace. Practice your form of unbelieving "Christianity" without Christ, but with the pantheist eastern philosophies. I will not post in your religious thread on that topic. Go in peace.

You did not create a thread called "Come and Get Saved" or "Come and Hear the Word".

You created a thread called "Are these three Bible verses true?"

That is pretty much inviting people from all walks of life and different belief systems to come in and give their take on the subject.

[Adama]

Go in peace. Practice your form of unbelieving "Christianity" without Christ, but with the pantheist eastern philosophies. I will not post in your religious thread on that topic. Go in peace.

You did not create a thread called "Come and Get Saved" or "Come and Hear the Word".

You created a thread called "Are these three Bible verses true?"

That is pretty much inviting people from all walks of life and different belief systems to come in and give their take on the subject.

Thanks for pointing that out. If they are not here to discuss the validity of those three verses then they should go in peace to discuss the verses they would like to discuss on their own thread.

John describes the false brethren in these verses:

1 John 4:20 KJV
[20]If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1 John 3:15 KJV
[15]Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 2:9 KJV
[15]He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:11 KJV
[11]But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1 John 2:4 KJV
[4]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


God says that those who say they know Christ yet don't keep His commandments are liars. God also says that the person who hates his brother is a murderer, and that such men are not saved because they do not have eternal life. He also says that those who say they are of God but hate their brother are still in darkness, meaning they don't have the Light of the Lord and are unsaved. He also says that the man who hates his brother walks within darkness, and doesn't even know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.

So tell me, how is it that a Christian can hate another Christian? God just said that it is impossible for a real Christian to hate another Christian, and that if a man says he is a Christian but yet hates his brother in Christ that he is a liar, unsaved, and a murderer. That's very telling.

No wonder they don't want others to hear the word preached. They refuse to enter into the Kingdom of God, and they want to shut the door shut so that others also will be prevented from entering.

[Winston]

Adama,
You should add a third option to your poll, which is that the verses are metaphorically true or symbolic, not literal. That's what most scholars would pick.

Btw, here are verses from the Gospel of Luke that also preach a Salvation by works, not atonement. I forgot to post it earlier.

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

[cdnFA]

That is not, in my opinion, the way to go about things. I do good works. If it ever comes up, I let people know I am Christian, and that I do good in the name of Jesus and follow his example, albeit poorly. You sell salvation through fear rather than through hope, and that is not something by which I can abide.

I got no problem with that. I might think Christianity is daft but you go about it in a way I have no quarrel with.

I know a girl who tries to convert people to the point of making a pest of herself. She explains that she can't sit by and see people go to hell. Personally I think maybe she should run with that thought to the inevitable conclusion but then she quotes some line out of the bible which shuts down her thinking on the subject.

It's funny this whole believe or hell thing, I don't think even The Dude can abide that and that is kind of his thing.

[Adama]

Adama,
You should add a third option to your poll, which is that the verses are metaphorically true or symbolic, not literal. That's what most scholars would pick.

Btw, here are verses from the Gospel of Luke that also preach a Salvation by works, not atonement. I forgot to post it earlier.

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Do you consider love a work? Personally I don't care what you believe, Winston, because it is apparent to me that either you don't want to believe or you are incapable of believing. So my words here will go into the wind.

It is impossible for a person to love God without believing in Jesus. If you search elsewhere in the Bible, loving God starts with believing in the Lord. You don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, how is it that you can say that you love Him?

Also, if a person is not saved, they do not truly love anyone. To be saved you must believe. God says that the people who love are of God, meaning they belong to God, meaning they are God's (meaning His possession). Who is it that belongs to God except for His spiritual children who believe in Jesus?

Nobody who is unsaved or an unbeliever even knows what true love is. They have a facsimilie which they believe to be love, but since they are unsaved, it is not the real thing at all.

[cdnFA]

There is only one god because my bible tells me so and the bible is true because it says it is true and if you can't accept that then you deserve to be tortured forever in hell.

That sounds about as legit as strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords as a basis for a system of government. If I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.

I find it very weird that bible thumpers in trying to convert will quote the bible to people skipping the step of trying to establish the bible as a source of authority.


I haven't bothered to check these out or their context but Adama posts the same way so meh.

***
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
***
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
***
***
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
***
1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
***
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
****
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
***
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)
****

[Adama]

Bragging about your good works is a sure way to lose any reward which the Lord would have given in heaven, if such a person ever gets there. The Pharisees and the hypocrites are the ones who do good works and brag about them in the Bible.

Any true Christian knows that all glory belongs to God and comes from Him. He prefers people to be humble, not proud.

Who is proud except the person who brags about doing good works for the Lord? And that person openly admits that he can't even get people saved. He also admits that he doesnt know the Word. He also does not love God or the brotherhood. This person is probably not even a real Christian but merely "practices" (meaning goes to Church and takes communion, probably) Christianity in unbelief.

God hates pride. He doesn't like braggarts.

Also, to please Him, it must be done in faith.

Hebrews 11:6 KJV
[6]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

All those unbelievers who think they are pleasing God are not, because they don't even believe in Jesus. They believe in their own works, and they even go so far as to brag about it, when we all know Jesus did all the work for us when He died for our sins.

Read as the Lord Himself tells us that those people who "did good works", yet were in unbelief, are still going to hell. That's because they believed those works would save them. Works don't save. Belief in Jesus is what saves. It is clear, unless you either don't want to believe or you can't believe (and that means it is too late for you if you are incapable of believing).

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They thought they did wonderful works. Unfortunately for them, God tells us that He doesn't consider their works worthy of anything except for entry into hell.

And because I know the demented are going to get caught up on the part where it says do the Father's Will, I will post the definition of the Father's Will in advance:

John 6:39-40 KJV
[39] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So if you think it is by works, it is a certainty: You will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire, if you die without believing it is by faith alone.

[Adama]

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Almost missed this point. As you are probably unaware of, the lawyers, Pharisees, Sadducees and most of the rest of the Jews were out to harass Jesus. That's why they want to see what Jesus will say. They were looking for an excuse to have Our Lord arrested and put to death. They were TEMPTING Him. Is that something a good man knowingly does to the Lord? Is that proof of love for God? No, it is not.

They were trying to get Jesus in trouble. That's why there are Jews always challenging Him, trying to TEMPT Him, trying to find any way to get Him out of the world.

Why? Because they are Satan's people, not God's. What is Satan's job? He is the adversary. He is the prosecuting attorney in heaven, bringing charges against the brethren before God on a daily basis.

What were the Jews doing to Jesus? They were trying to persecute Him.

That lawyer wasn't looking for truth. He was looking for a way to TEMPT JESUS! Isn't Satan the tempter? Think about it.

He might have even been one of those people who have gone too far in this life and therefore are irredeemable; that is they are unable to believe, because their hearts have been hardened, their eyes have been blinded, and they are probably under a strong delusion (like say, evolution, Buddhism, reincarnation, salvation by works, Catholicism, repent of your sins heresy, etc). But I don't feel sorrow for them. I do feel sorrow for the ones who genuinely didn't know. I don't feel sorry for the ones who KNOW but refuse to BELIEVE. That is rejecting God. And just like when a man asks a woman out for a date and she rejects him one too many times and he tells her to forget it and there's nothing she can later do to cause him to take her, so it is with our God, who has a limit to how many times He will suffer rejection from unbelievers.

[Adama]

BTW, all that analyzing to find a reason to get Jesus in trouble is the same thing that "atheists" (the portion of atheists who hate God are the ones I refer to, not the genuine agnostics) do to Christians. They think they are just being neutral, when they hurl insults and scour every word to find fault or to find a way to insult. But really they only reveal themselves as Satan's people, working evil, who hate our God.

Unfortunately for them, their hatred of God doesn't eradicate or erase Him. He's still there. And they will pay for their sins, because they did not accept our Lord. Why? Because they loved wicked, forbidden sin more than the truth. That is why people dont want Christ. I can only imagine all the sick and twisted things they've done. Well no, I can't imagine it, because I know that that sin isn't even that great. It's stupid. Not even worth spending an eternity in hell to score some lesbians, or to be a homosexual, or to have intercourse with other men's wives, or to sleep with thousands of prostitutes, or swing, or to share a woman with another man in the same bed.

Hell is forever and ever. This life is only 28,000 days. Not worth it. You decide.

[cdnFA]

Yeah, how dare those mean Atheists point out significant errors and outright evil in the bible.

I bet you don't have a problem when they do it to the Scientology nutters. [Hint, we don't hate them either]

Also just because you say something is true is not sufficient reason to believe it is true. Basically you are undergoing a form of conversational masturbation.

What sort of mind set does it take to react in that way when people claim the bible as a source of truth and someone else points out contritions.

In any field, if any book contained 2 contradictory statements, people would point it out. In any other field, people would consider that fair.
Why does the bible get a pass. It can't be because it is the word of a benevilent all powerfull being because it is filled with too much error, evil and desribes said person as someone with no self esteem who can't handle rejection.

So why does the bible get a pass when everyone else can be subject to the same critiques with no problem. I can point out problems with a vegan text, or a low fat text, or a Keynesian or an Austrian text and the reply would be to try and refute the claim.

You point out a much more serious problem with the bible and it is... "You hate us" "You hate our invisible friend" "You are evil" "You deserve to be tortured.

You keep saying god is real and god will put unbelievers in hell and sometimes you even quote an error riddled book filled with horribly evil stories.

How about you try to establish that the book isn't filled with errors and evil [oh wait, that is impossible]


A normal sane person when presented with evidence that their sources can't be trusted would question said sources. Until you earn my respect by doing so, I will never respect you nor your beliefs.

I will also never respect someone who thinks that killing babies and toddlers [flood, first born] is the act of a kind and loving god.

It is like you don't understand anything you are saying and hearing someone derp on like that does get on the nerves. Much like Tapico's insistence that he is making fools of everyone else.

Cultist. The term really does apply.
I've disproven the bible as both a reliable source and as being written or even inspired by a benevolent entity.

All you are capable of responding with is... "nu huh. you hate me, you are evil, you deserve to burn in hell.


If there is a god and if he is a decent brah. You are in a whole world of trouble. Fortunately unlike the deity you worship, a god who is a decent brah would be a bit more understanding and wouldn't resort to torture for your continued insults by not using the brain he provided. He would also probably be more understanding of your continued attempts to lead people down a morally dubious and obnoxious path.


I don't hate you, but I sure don't like you.

[Adama]

Psalm 14 1-3 KJV
[1]The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
[2]The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
[3]They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

John 3:19-21 KJV
[19]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21]But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

[Adama]

I would not argue with The Lord's Justice. He is Just; The Justifier and Redeemer of the world. One cannot say that the person who is the source of redemption, justice and righteousness is unjust. That is just beyond wicked.

Numbers 14:18 KJV
[18] The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Exodus 20:5 KJV
[5]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

This is God's justice. Here's a hint. Believe on His Son, if you're capable. Certainly don't hate Him and don't commit disgusting sin.

Psalm 37:25 KJV
[25]I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Nothing like that is going to happen to the righteous. Seems to me like God's justice for hating Him. Here's another hint: Love Him by believing on His Son.

Of course it might already be too late for some who hate God so much that they believe He is evil. When some of the pharisees did that to Jesus, by blaspheming the Holy Ghost, Jesus told them that they have no forgiveness in this world or the next. That seems like a pretty steep penalty. But I do not feel sorry for these people. Not one bit.

[cdnFA]

I would not argue with The Lord's Justice. He is Just; The Justifier and Redeemer of the world. One cannot say that the person who is the source of redemption, justice and righteousness is unjust. That is just beyond wicked.

According to the bible he kills babies.

Therefore he can not be just, the justifier and redeemer of the world. These two things can not be true.
Either you don't accept the stories of Noah's flood and the killing of the first born of Egypt as true or even metaphorical stories or you can't hold the position that this god fellow is Just.

Killing babies is not the act of a just person. Period. End of story. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars. QED.

Accepting the killing of babies because the bible insists it is the act of a just person sounds pretty wicked to me. it also shows a staggering lack of ability to question and think critically.

There is no amount of bible verse that can change that because killing babies by the thousands and even millions is just not on.

In effect what you are doing would be the same as someone insisting they are not gay while enjoying being balls deep in a guy. Pretty gay to me.


How can you not see this. What sort of monster are you that you think killing babies is the act of a just person.