My dating experiences in Eastern Europe

[Voyager1]

Now who is the troll?

Stop trolling me

[chanta76]

Voyager1,

Are you talking to me? Or the previous poster? I'm been posting here for awhile.

You still haven't answer anything really. I posted links of Asian guys with Russian girls but let say your right only white guys can get Russian or Ukraine girls. How then can a average white guy do it?

[Yohan]

And I never been to Ukraine or Russia but anytime anyone say 'no one', it's pretty extreme statement. There are Asian men who did marry Russian women.
.....
Granted most Russian and Ukraine women prefer their local men and than western guys but to say not a single Russian girl or Ukraine girl will not date or marry non-white guys. Is like me saying no Korean girl will date a foreign guy.

I think, chanta76, you are mixing up somewhat Russia and Ukraine.

If we talk about Asian/Russian dating and marriage, you will hardly find that in Eastern Europe, you have to move over to Siberia, to Far East Russia.

In that area. especially Yakutsk, Sachalin, you will find various races, who are Russian citizens, but are originally from Mongolia, Korea or otherwise of Asian race.

However the majority of women are clearly the typical white Russian girl, but they don't care about race. They are familiar with Asian people.

For sure an Asian man can find a typical Russian girl in Siberia and I do not think it's difficult.

The point is more about what is the next step, to bring her to where? You cannot live in that region so easily, what kind of income do you expect etc.
Also, a good knowledge of Russian is really necessary, or you are lost there.

[chanta76]

yohan,

that's hardly my point.

my point was Voyager1 is supposedly doing great in Eastern Europe. OK...I like to know how he is doing it? How can an average white guy get the same result he does.

Regarding Asian men with Eastern European women. In general most Eastern European prefer white guys but from some reports there are color men who do get Eastern European women. Is it the norm? No.

[Voyager1]

The more girls you meet the greater your chances of success. As someone said in another thread, it's a numbers game. If the girls don't like you there is no advice to give, nothing can help you.

[chanta76]

voyager1,

sigh... so your advice it's just a numbers game in the Ukraine? or pretty much anywhere else?

Winston created this thread for you and I guess my expectation was high since you claim to be able to do OK in the Ukraine because from most reports I read Ukraine is tough place unless your decent looking and tall with some cash on you.

You don't recommends guys using Mark Davis dream connection or I imagine AFA service. I think for guys who really know nothing about a country using one of those service can be helpful albeit it is expensive.

So I have new questions to you. Since you claim to be in Ukraine. How does one go about meeting girls to increase his chance in getting a girl friend? Is it necessary to speak the native language or is English enough?

Imagine some guy just decided to take a 4 week vacation in Ukraine. Lands there..has no one there for him. How does this guy go about meeting girls? Should he just do random street approach? some expat clubs?

Since you also say no Indian or Asian guys have any chance in hell. How about black guys? I heard one black guy is killing it over there.

[Winston]

$100 worth of food so she can get 10% commission?! That is silly and stupid on her part, I would rather give her $50 for straight bang and skip all bs drama that goes with so called dating.

But you can usually tell whether girl is a pro dater or legit, so many give aways, i read them like an open book.

How easy is to pick up a regular girl in the street by cold approach?Are they receptive ?
Can decent american or german men get a free pass or it is all transactional?

Tours are for losers who lack social skills, Mark Davis is smart businessman but I cant stand his cheezy american bs, i deal with people like him every day...women on his tours could be former hookers and he selling them as marriage material stuff to desperados.

Winnie, stop lickin Marks balls

This makes no sense. No guy would pay a 100 dollar meal for a lady he just met. Maybe Hugh Heffner would. But not the average guy going to Ukraine. Most guys don't even carry around that much cash.

How can you tell if a girl is a pro-dater?

Mark Davis may sound cheesy and be a smooth talker, but he is very positive and that's what Americans like. I wouldn't be surprised if he worked in sales before. He could have been a good salesman too.

I doubt if Mark used former hookers on his tours, because if he did, the guys would have a bad experience and complain. But so far, most of his clients seem happy.

I am not licking Mark's balls. I'm going by the evidence.

However, I don't get how Mark can guarantee a high success rate on his tours though. I mean, even if he screened everyone and only brought quality male clients on his tours and quality women seeking marriage, still a lot of things could go wrong. For instance, the women could say that she's not into her date and doesn't have any feelings or love for him. Or several guys could be competing for the same women and create a rivalry, etc. How does Mark prevent that? And how can he guarantee results since women's feelings are so subjective and changeable? Love is not logical and does not follow formulas. So how can Mark guarantee anything? I should ask him about that in his thread.

[Winston]

No. She gets 10% of the total bill so if the total bill is $300-$400 she gets 10% plus free food & drink. Whatever the schmuk buys her.

That's impossible. No man carries around 300 to 400 USD in cash unless he's a high roller. Average men don't do that. So how would they pay such a meal? They would be out of cash. Your stories are extreme and unrealistic. You cannot scam a man for an unlimited amount. At best, you may be able to get an extra 5 or 10 dollars out of him. But not 300 or 400 dollars. Scams have a limit. They can work in extracting extra cash if done right and not in extreme amounts. This is true even in the Philippines. It's easy to get away with overcharging or scamming someone a few extra dollars. But not hundreds. Reality isn't that easy.

Your stories are most likely exaggerated. If a restaurant charged 300 or 400 dollars, a guy would refuse and walk away and make a scene at the restaurant. And even call the police. The restaurant would have a hard time collecting on that scam. So the scam would be inefficient and a waste of time. You can't get away with an extreme ripoff like that. It's common sense. Even a scam has to work without reason and certain boundaries.

You can't just add 400 dollars to a restaurant bill and milk a man like that. It doesn't work that way. The way a scam works is that they add 5 or 10 dollars to a restaurant bill and hopes the man doesn't notice. Especially if the restaurant bill is in a foreign language, then the man can't analyze it and will often give up and just pay it. It's harder to scam an Asian or Chinese guy though, because they are human calculators and good at counting everything they've ordered, so they will notice a discrepancy right away. I know because I am one of them. I've caught many mistakes on restaurant bills.

That's how scams work in real life. You don't seem to have any real experience with scams.

[Winston]

Does Winston get a commission for guys he sends on Mark's tours? Nothing wrong with that. He should just be open about it.

No I don't. I already answered that before. If I was truly advertising him, I would have ads on this site for Mark's tours. Do you see any? Nope. You see ads for AFA though. So they are my advertisers, not Mark. That should be obvious. I only talk about him in forum discussions. But that's not the same as advertising for him. I am just voicing my honest evaluation of Mark and his tours, based on evidence and logic.

[Winston]

Voyager1,

You haven't really answer anything and I'm starting to think your troll. I asked you how you do it in the Ukraine? How are you able to get girls? Guys that know nothing will use agency as one way to know something.

So I'm asking you as a man. How did you meet girls in the Ukraine? How did you attract them? I was always under the assumption that in the Ukraine women prefer tall strong looking guys. So if you fit that profile it be easier for you to attract a girl but how would Winston look alike do? I mean if a short Asian guy came up to you and say I give you some money so you can teach me how to get girls in the Ukraine can you teach him? Unless you have something really going for you that is not teachable Or your troll.

I'm not going to respond to someone who calls me names. I don't need to respond to you at all. My posts are for the benefit of others on this forum.

I agree. It's fishy and suspicious that you are dodging simple questions, Voyager1. If you were a sincere and honest man, you would not dodge such simple questions. Do you see me dodging simple questions? No. So that, and your IP in Germany, make you a highly suspicious source. You haven't established your identity or any credibility on here.

Btw, if you want to resolve your IP suspicion, why don't you write a post and send it from your hotel room using your hotel WiFi? Your hotel WiFi should be using a Ukrainian IP address. Then we will know for sure that you really are in Ukraine.

[Winston]

Voyager1 has a different goal in mind. If you want to "Bang Ukraine" then buy the book by that same title. He is right you can find young, beautiful women to bang that are 20 years younger and it won't cost anything.

I only work with men who are looking for a life partner - a marriage relationship. That's the title of this section of the forum.

I'm not here criticizing his choice. He shouldn't be criticizing other men's choice.

You don't have to read the book, "Bang Ukraine". You can just bang Ukraine. The more girls you hang out with the greater your chances are of having sex with them. Young women are horny creatures.

That's bullshit advice from someone with no experience with women. I hung out with many girls in the FSU, but it didn't increase my odds of getting laid. The truth is, no matter how horny a girl is, she's still going to be very picky about who she sleeps with. White women tend to be very picky and big on looks, even if they deny it. So just because they are horny doesn't mean nothing. They are still not easy, if you are not their type. That's the reality. If you were a real man and honest man, you would know that and say that, not give some dumb banter like you did above, which is useless advice.

[Winston]

I have experience in both Russia and in Ukraine. I never did a "romance tour" so don't have an opinion about them. However, I do think that they are not necessary. With social media and dating sites, its not going to be to difficult to get acquainted with women in either country. You could plan a trip and meet several in a trip if you wanted. Perhaps the romance tours might be good too, but I feel like they were probably more useful before everyone had access to the internet,

I would probably look in a large city a step down in size from the capital cities. I think the people in such cities are a little bit nicer. In Ukraine, try a place like Odessa. In Russia, there are lots of options.

Now for me, I am dating Filipinas.

http://www.filipinaaficionado.com

Yes you can use dating sites and cold approach. But the problem is that you will meet all kinds of women. Some are scammers and gold diggers. Some are just looking for language exchange. Some are just looking for a free dinner. Some are just along for the ride. But Mark screens his tour women to make sure they are sincere about marriage and of good quality. Dating sites don't screen their women that way. So Mark's tours and dating sites are NOT the same thing. They provide different quality women.

Also, most guys can't cold approach women. They aren't raised to do that or behave that way with women. Only those with skill and experience with it, or those that have a background career in sales and marketing jobs, are going to be comfortable doing that. Most guys feel too shy or uncomfortable to even try to approach a female stranger in public.

[Voyager1]

No. She gets 10% of the total bill so if the total bill is $300-$400 she gets 10% plus free food & drink. Whatever the schmuk buys her.

That's impossible. No man carries around 300 to 400 USD in cash unless he's a high roller. Average men don't do that. So how would they pay such a meal? They would be out of cash. Your stories are extreme and unrealistic. You cannot scam a man for an unlimited amount. At best, you may be able to get an extra 5 or 10 dollars out of him. But not 300 or 400 dollars. Scams have a limit. They can work in extracting extra cash if done right and not in extreme amounts. This is true even in the Philippines. It's easy to get away with overcharging or scamming someone a few extra dollars. But not hundreds. Reality isn't that easy.

Your stories are most likely exaggerated. If a restaurant charged 300 or 400 dollars, a guy would refuse and walk away and make a scene at the restaurant. And even call the police. The restaurant would have a hard time collecting on that scam. So the scam would be inefficient and a waste of time. You can't get away with an extreme ripoff like that. It's common sense. Even a scam has to work without reason and certain boundaries.

You can't just add 400 dollars to a restaurant bill and milk a man like that. It doesn't work that way. The way a scam works is that they add 5 or 10 dollars to a restaurant bill and hopes the man doesn't notice. Especially if the restaurant bill is in a foreign language, then the man can't analyze it and will often give up and just pay it. It's harder to scam an Asian or Chinese guy though, because they are human calculators and good at counting everything they've ordered, so they will notice a discrepancy right away. I know because I am one of them. I've caught many mistakes on restaurant bills.

That's how scams work in real life. You don't seem to have any real experience with scams.

I can't believe how dumb you are sometimes. Ever heard of a credit card? I've heard of one case where the restaurant forced the guy to go to an ATM and get cash to settle the bill. As for calling the police, they're in on the scam too. They all work together. You obviously know nothing about how things work here in the FSU. Usually establishments have to pay protection money to police. Kind of like the mafia used to operate.

[Winston]

voyager1,

sigh... so your advice it's just a numbers game in the Ukraine? or pretty much anywhere else?

Winston created this thread for you and I guess my expectation was high since you claim to be able to do OK in the Ukraine because from most reports I read Ukraine is tough place unless your decent looking and tall with some cash on you.

You don't recommends guys using Mark Davis dream connection or I imagine AFA service. I think for guys who really know nothing about a country using one of those service can be helpful albeit it is expensive.

So I have new questions to you. Since you claim to be in Ukraine. How does one go about meeting girls to increase his chance in getting a girl friend? Is it necessary to speak the native language or is English enough?

Imagine some guy just decided to take a 4 week vacation in Ukraine. Lands there..has no one there for him. How does this guy go about meeting girls? Should he just do random street approach? some expat clubs?

Since you also say no Indian or Asian guys have any chance in hell. How about black guys? I heard one black guy is killing it over there.

I think most guys would use dating sites or mobile apps like Tinder to meet girls there. Most guys aren't good at cold approach. It's just not something we are brought up to do. They also go to bars and discos in Ukraine. They sit and order a drink and see if any girls approach them or make eye contact. That's pretty much all they can do. What do you expect?

Guys like me and Rock and newarrior though, will use aggressive cold approach, so we have an additional venue. We are experienced at it so we are comfortable with it. Plus the girls in the FSU are fearless of guys approaching them, so when you see that, you will get a lot braver than usual. When you can do something and not feel like a creep, you won't mind doing it again, basically.

Other than that, there's not much you can control. If a girl isn't into you, you can't change that in most cases. If she is into you, then she makes it easy for you to get her into bed, you just go with the flow. That's how it is everywhere.

Now the thing is, yes I can probably get dates in Ukraine, the same way I got them in Russia, by approaching them and saying "Excuse me miss, you are very pretty, can we meet?" That's all I need to do to open the doors with girls. It works 30 or 40 percent of the time. If I can do it in Russia, I can do it in Ukraine too, though not as well because Ukrainian girls are more reserved than Russian girls.

When I was in Ukraine in 2002 though, I was only there for 2 weeks and I wasn't as good yet in cold approach and my Russian wasn't as good yet either. But I'm sure I can. Talking to strangers there does NOT feel creepy at all. They are very comfortable with it. Trust me. You just gotta do it in a playful non-serious manner.

Now that being said, just because I meet a lot of girls and get a lot of dates, doesn't mean I'll get laid. Lots of FSU girls will go out with you for a free dinner or language exchange, or just for the hell of it. But if they aren't into you, they won't sleep with you. At the end of the date, she will say "I must go home now. My mom is waiting for me." or "I have school tomorrow." You see, foreign women do not see dating as necessarily leading to sex or romance. They just see it as harmlessly hanging out. So they aren't as hung up on it as American girls are, because Americans girls will not even have a coffee date with a guy if he is not their type. But foreign girls will still go out with guys who aren't their type, and whom they aren't attracted to, just for fun or to get a free dinner or language exchange. That's the major difference. And that's why it's so much easier to date foreign girls, because even if they're not truly interested, they will still go out with you or show you around their city, just to be hospitable.

It is true that most Ukrainian girls won't like Asian men like me. But that doesn't mean it's impossible for me to get a Ukrainian girlfriend. It just means that my dating pool of girls will be much SMALLER than a white guy's. I will have a lot less girls to choose from, in other words. However, even among my choices, I may not find anyone I'm attracted to. Just because a girl is willing to be my girlfriend doesn't mean she will be my type. For example, my last Russian fiancee, Alina, was into me and liked me and loved me, but she wasn't my type so I had a hard time being loyal to her.

It also depends on how attractive you are. Most Asian guys aren't attractive, but if they are tall, it's a big plus to women.

Hope that gives you the big picture of things.

[Winston]

No. She gets 10% of the total bill so if the total bill is $300-$400 she gets 10% plus free food & drink. Whatever the schmuk buys her.

That's impossible. No man carries around 300 to 400 USD in cash unless he's a high roller. Average men don't do that. So how would they pay such a meal? They would be out of cash. Your stories are extreme and unrealistic. You cannot scam a man for an unlimited amount. At best, you may be able to get an extra 5 or 10 dollars out of him. But not 300 or 400 dollars. Scams have a limit. They can work in extracting extra cash if done right and not in extreme amounts. This is true even in the Philippines. It's easy to get away with overcharging or scamming someone a few extra dollars. But not hundreds. Reality isn't that easy.

Your stories are most likely exaggerated. If a restaurant charged 300 or 400 dollars, a guy would refuse and walk away and make a scene at the restaurant. And even call the police. The restaurant would have a hard time collecting on that scam. So the scam would be inefficient and a waste of time. You can't get away with an extreme ripoff like that. It's common sense. Even a scam has to work without reason and certain boundaries.

You can't just add 400 dollars to a restaurant bill and milk a man like that. It doesn't work that way. The way a scam works is that they add 5 or 10 dollars to a restaurant bill and hopes the man doesn't notice. Especially if the restaurant bill is in a foreign language, then the man can't analyze it and will often give up and just pay it. It's harder to scam an Asian or Chinese guy though, because they are human calculators and good at counting everything they've ordered, so they will notice a discrepancy right away. I know because I am one of them. I've caught many mistakes on restaurant bills.

That's how scams work in real life. You don't seem to have any real experience with scams.

I can't believe how dumb you are sometimes. Ever heard of a credit card? I've heard of one case where the restaurant forced the guy to go to an ATM and get cash to settle the bill. As for calling the police, they're in on the scam too. They all work together. You obviously know nothing about how things work here in the FSU. Usually establishments have to pay protection money to police. Kind of like the mafia used to operate.

You are the dumb one. Only the police can force you to withdraw at an ATM. Restaurant staff can't. And the Ukrainian police aren't that tough. They are like street security guards. They aren't that militarialistic or aggressive. German cops on the other hand, are known to do that. But German cops don't scam you, they just make you obey the law.

Even if the Ukrainian cop is corrupt and in on it, you can still argue with them about it all day. Eventually they will give up. I've had Russian cops try to scam me too. I've even had Russian immigration try to scam me. After I argued with them about it, they got annoyed and said, "Alright, get out of here!" You can also ask to speak with the police chief. The police chief will usually take your side of the cop is trying to scam you.

I've had several cops run from me when I took out a pen and paper and wrote down their badge number. It works in Poland too when the train ticket taker, an old guy who grew up in the Communist era, tried to scam me.

Restaurant staff don't have the authority to force you to go to the ATM and withdraw 400 dollars. If they did, they would make a scene and the guests in their place would not come back and they would lose business. And trust me, restaurant staff do not like to make a scene. It looks bad to all the customers in the restaurant.

Also, scammers KNOW they are in the WRONG, so they will not fight to get their way very passionately or vehemently, the way a freedom fighter or justice warrior would. This means that they will expend very little energy to argue their case, since their own conscience is against them. Remember that an argument or confrontation, especially in person, is basically an ENERGY BATTLE. Kind of like in those street fighter type video games where both players have an energy bar above their character. The one that runs out of energy first usually loses. In this case the scammers energy will deplete first, because he or she will not have much energy to argue their case since they know they are in the wrong and trying to cheat you. But a man who stands for justice and is arguing for his moral right will have more energy to argue all day long if necessary. This is why I usually win against scammers when we are in a face to face argument or verbal debate about it.

Show me a documented incident where a restaurant could just add 400 dollars to your bill and make you pay it.

Nothing you say matches up with real life or common sense.

I have met a lot of scams and dealt with them in various countries. So I know a lot more than you do about them.