An intelligent Christian

[wingfeather]

Science nut: "I do as I am told by the Skeptics Guide podcasts, so I am most wise."

Religion nut: "I do as I am told by the Bible, so I am most wise."

Is one really more wise than the other?

[fschmidt]

Science nut: "I do as I am told by the Skeptics Guide podcasts, so I am most wise."

Religion nut: "I do as I am told by the Bible, so I am most wise."

Is one really more wise than the other?

That would depend on which is wiser, the Skeptics Guide podcasts or the Bible. Since the average moron can't think for himself, his wisdom is determined by the wisdom of what he follows.

[MrMan]

Being a 'freethinker' doesn't make one more intelligent than anyone else, and it doesn't make one right.

I would tend to disagree. The very fact that freethinkers rely on rationality and evidence to come to their conclusions render them, per se, smarter than people who do not, ie religious thinkers. Freethinker can, of course, be wrong but there is a self-correcting element to their way of thinking as opposed to religious types.

'Freethinker' is a misnomer. Show me one person whose thinking doesn't draw on some set philosphy or philosophical belief systems. Scientists draw on the thinking of other scientists. And some of the reasoning of scientists operates on a set of assumptions that aren't actually provable. 'Freethinkers' who are left-leaning sexual libertines, for example, draw from the thinking of others like that. You might be able to point to a few innovators in philosophy. Being innovative, or appearing to be so, doesn't make one right. Most people copy what they hear or read from others, even if they don't have a set religious or philosophical text to draw from.

Are there religious thinkers of high intelligence? Of course, but they tend to be only loosely guided by religious dictates.

There are people who are very devout and sincere about their faith in the medical profession, in academia, and in a lot of other fields. I have advanced degrees, and I don't thinking of my faith as something to be held 'loosely.'

I was not criticizing Christianity specifically, but since it was brought up, I have to mention the fact that most Christians still falsely believe in creationism instead of evolution even though the science has long shut the door on creationism.

On the contrary, science, particularly fields related to astrophysics and the cosmos, have produced increasingly weightier evidence for the Creator.

I had seen a video on a very specific topic related to this from a scientist, but here is one that coverse a broad range of scientific topics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9D00DXQQs

[MrMan]

You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

Deuteronomy 23:19 ESV /

It seems there are a dozen other quotes on usury saying do it/ don't do it. So...there is no unifying message on it. The OT is a mish mosh of different texts saying contradictory things on the matter. Leaving it up to you to do what you want of course. But the wily Jew mind will come up with a loophole, trust assuredly.

I don't know what all the Orthodox Judaism type groups believe on this, but I know there are Jews who do not believe in charging fellow Jews interest, but don't have a problem charging Gentiles. Even one percent on grain was forbidden in the time of Ezra.

I've read that the Roman Catholic Church in the middle ages did not want Christians charging each other interest. So Jews filled that niche and went into pawn shops and banking. Some of them didn't mind charging Gentiles interest.

Now, most national economies have some type of fiat currency, in which the sytem is based on lending money into existence, at interest, and require that economies continually expand so that individuals have a chance to pay off their debts and the interest on the debts. Inflation is also a part of this system.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

For all of those still brainwashed by religion, the late, great George Carlin has some words for you:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE[/youtube]

[Contrarian Expatriate]

The dub poet Mutabaruka made a mock courtroom song where he sentences Mr. Religious Belief and Mr. Denomination for their "crimes." In my view, the sentences of these two "criminals" should have been far more severe!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khaPW0p_OGo[/youtube]

Holy Books such as the Bible, the Talmud and the Koran are essentially books of fairy tales meant to scare people into compliance.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Stephan Fry whips "God" around like a rag doll:

The Stephan Fry portion ends at 2:15. Afterward is some nerd giving commentary that I pretty much ignored.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI[/youtube]

[Adama]

Anyone who can blaspheme God to that degree may be reprobate. He absolutely hates God with utter contempt. I don't feel sorry for any reprobate.

I was watching a documentary special once about one of the more important men in American history (I think he was a Founding Father but I can't remember his name). At his death bed, he had many people witnessing to him trying to get him saved. He refused to get saved. Earlier in the documentary they spoke about how he and his wife lived together with another man in this house, and it implied that they were both going in unto his wife, sharing her many times for a long time.

The people who don't want to believe are the ones who have rejected Christ so that they could have unlimited pleasure in unrighteousness. They chose the pleasure of sin for a season and hated their eternal destiny and God and heaven itself, His dwelling place. 2 Thes 2 and Romans 1 explain this well.

All you have to do to be saved is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. He's done all the work. All he asks us to do is to believe in Him. At that point, He imputes His righteous unto us, making us worthy of entering heaven, because He paid the price for our sins. Our sins are covered once we believe in Jesus, and He will never cast us away even if we sin because He promised He wouldn't and because He actually wants everyone in heaven with Him, except for the wicked sinners who reject Him in preference of their sin for a lifetime.

Most people have been tricked by Satan, and their love of their unrighteous pleasure keeps them blinded. Of course God made the world. Somehow the world and life both came out of nothingness? Of course God is good and therefore demands holiness because He hates sin. He created hell for the angels that sinned, but all those who choose pleasure for this lifetime OVER the possibility of eternal life (as opposed to eternal destruction) will pay for their own sins for eternity. They do this by refusing to believe in Jesus, which is the easiest thing one could ever do (except you've already been given over to a reprobate mind). They can't have their sins covered because they refused to believe in Jesus.

And of course the penalty for sin is death, and death eternal is hell.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Stephen Fry is a complete reprobate. Anyone who can blaspheme God to that degree must be one. He absolutely hates God with utter contempt. I don't feel sorry for any reprobate.

Your fallacious attack of ad hominum against Stephen Fry did nothing to refute or disprove his argument. Your response here is on the order of a first grader's shouting, "But he's just a dumb, dumb!"

And also, you do realize that in the eyes of other religious faiths, YOU are the reprobate who hates God with your foolhardy, Christian arrogance. Islam, in particular, holds a special status of contempt for people who espouse your views.

All you have to do to be saved is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Utter nonsense! Most people in the history of this world, including a huge chunk of those living today, have never heard of "Lord Jesus Christ." So how can one expect some tribesman in the Amazon, or the Sahara, or the Middle East to even know Jesus, let alone "accept" him as Lord and savior?

Most people have been tricked by Satan, and their love of their unrighteous pleasure keeps them blinded. Of course God made the world. Somehow the world and life both came out of nothingness? Of course God is good and therefore demands holiness because He hates sin. He created hell for the angels that sinned, but all those who choose pleasure for this lifetime OVER the possibility of eternal life (as opposed to eternal destruction) will pay for their own sins for eternity. They do this by refusing to believe in Jesus, which is the easiest thing one could ever do (except you've already been given over to a reprobate mind). They can't have their sins covered because they refused to believe in Jesus.

And of course the penalty for sin is death, and death eternal is hell.

Oh, so you actually believe in the evil red man with a pitch fork too?

This is the classic lie that Christianity and some other faiths use to try to scare people into compliance. It is a real shame it worked to brainwash you into complete thoughtlessness, but I understand how the brainwashing works. It starts at a very young age and its intensity increases over time.

[Adama]

If a whole nations forsakes God and worships other gods, God will leave them desolate. If they isolate themselves and cut themselves off from the rest of humanity, they will damn their children to hell for generations, seeing as nobody knows of their existence to evangelize them. They cut themselves off twice, by rejecting God and then by isolating themselves.

If a nation rejects God and murders the Christian evangelists, how then are those people going to receive the gospel? Muslims openly hate Christ as is widely known. They know of Him but they hate Him and reject Him. They cannot use the excuse of not knowing who He is, because they know. They just reject Him in favor of lies.

Muslims today in the USA openly threaten the lives of Christian evangelists who speak Christ's name. Is it any wonder that they can't get saved? They know about Christ. They just hate Him. That is all.

As for tribesman, I can't speak for all, but I know of some of the native Americans and their sexual practices of sharing their wives with strangers. Sharing of wives is forbidden, and that would be reprobate levels of pleasure.

Also, if someone has rejected Christ and God has abandoned them, then the term for them is reprobate. It is not an insult to call someone a reprobate, just as it is not an insult to call someone a tribesman.

[MrMan]

Contrarian Expat,

It's funny. I was thinking, before writing that last post, of giving an example of 'free thinkers' parrotting the ideas of someone like George Carlin, who didn't come up with his ideas in a vacuum either. Stephen Fry did not present a single logical reason for not believing in God, though he does appeal to emotion. His responding to a series of 'omnis' that he's heard about God, about God being all-benevolent. I can't imagine why someone who had read the Bible thinking that God wouldn't hurt anyone.

Death came into the world through man's sin. It does make sense that a loving God would allow sin in the world.... if He has a good reason to do so. That's enough to satisfy that philosophical question logically.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Contrarian Expat,

It's funny. I was thinking, before writing that last post, of giving an example of 'free thinkers' parrotting the ideas of someone like George Carlin, who didn't come up with his ideas in a vacuum either. Stephen Fry did not present a single logical reason for not believing in God, though he does appeal to emotion. His responding to a series of 'omnis' that he's heard about God, about God being all-benevolent. I can't imagine why someone who had read the Bible thinking that God wouldn't hurt anyone.

Death came into the world through man's sin. It does make sense that a loving God would allow sin in the world.... if He has a good reason to do so. That's enough to satisfy that philosophical question logically.

Truly sorry to see your religious conditioning has disabled your ability to fathom Fry's logic in his dismantling of "God."

Certain people are far too far down the road of brainwashing to ever be able to question their religion. That would apply to you are a handful of others popping up on this thread. You are to be written off and considered, lost for the cause. I fully expect you, and a few others, to repeat the tired old mantras about salvation and that Jesus is God but that there are really three god's but they are conveniently fused together in The Holy Trinity so there really is only one god. Riiiight....

You were lied to by your parents, your clergy, your peers, and others, full stop! Perhaps they did not realize they were lying, or justified their lying by thinking everyone else is doing it. And perhaps they lied with all the purest intentions in the world. But the result is that they contributed to the creation of men who can't think outside of the religious box constructed for them. These men are controlled, dominated even, yet they still adhere to the brainwashing.

Do know I present these arguments for those who are NOT so remote from logic and rationality without religion getting in the way. THOSE are the valuable people who constitute that quiet majority.

Yet another realistic and true view of religion and its role spreading EVIL and SUFFERING in the world.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyHhAoxTXKI[/youtube]

[Kradmelder]

Contra, it is ironic that the free thinker mantle you adopt is exactly the same as white nationalists adopt. I am a free thinker and then cobble together words of david duke, adi etc. You have all been lied to by the falae liberal religion. I cobble these thoughts together for the silent majority of white people etc.

Although i may have common ground with some of their pronouncements, it does not mean i associate with it. Just like i may have some common racial thoughts as cornfed, it by no means implies i am the same kind of person nor would normally associate with such people.

Now in effect you are lumping all people with faith into a box just because some of the things they say are the similar. Is a normal honest christian the same as these give me your money prosperity gospel 'pastors'? Is every muzzie the same as an allah akbar kaboom haji?

Now wise up and rather judge people by the colour of their skin rather than the content of their character i stole that from a darkie and corrupted it, just like they steal from whitey and corrupt it

[jamesbond]

Paul Elam the founder of the website, "A Voice for Men" recently made a video explaining how Christianity has been taken over by feminists and manginas. In Christian churches today, men are seen as being inferior to women and women are seen as being incapable of doing anything wrong. It's a very interesting video and he makes a lot of good points.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77QUga4mFxg[/youtube]

[Adama]

As a Christian, you're supposed to unplug yourself from the world in a certain way: to be in the world but not of it. Feminism and the rest definitely is worldly.

Also you should know that every professing Christian is not saved. Most are not. Most believe in damnable heresy, putting them on par with heathen spiritually. So not everyone who says they are Christian is a Christian. The new Pope for example is not a Christian because he has said that a person can go to heaven without believing in God, making him an unbeliever. He doesn't believe in Christ or God because he said belief in God isn't necessary to go to heaven. That is damnable heresy. That is an unbeliever. So you can't say that Christianity does anything, when most of Christianity is apostate.

Also, many pastors of organized denominations are Freemasons, and you know how that goes.

And remember, there is such a thing as false prophets, who are wolves in sheep's clothing, intentionally teaching things against God's law to confuse people.